Ladies - do you wear hijab?
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Peace
Then why are you complaigning?
I'm not complaining. Please do not jump to conclusions that have no basis. When I'm asking you a question it does not mean I'm complaining to you. So let's just clear that up right now so you won't have such a thought in mind as we discuss this.
Are you mad at everyone who chooses what their kids wear????
No not at all. Let's clear another thing up before you make judgement again that is wrong. I am not mad that parents choose what their children wear. My primary concern here is why does the veil have to be an identifying mark to, let's say, muslimhood on a child who probably is not muslim? In my opinion the decision is the child's to make, not mine own. Clearly there is to be no compulsion in the deen. Does it now not apply to one's child? It's like the parent/s taking it upon themselves to circumcise the male or female child needlessly. I believe it's a decision the child should make at least when s/he is old enough to assume responsiblilty for such decisions.
Or are you just mad at Muslims for doing it?
No. I'm not mad at all. I'm just trying to point out how the parent/s assume their child is muslim and so choose to dress them up in the insignia which would draw attention to that stance. I can understand adhering to social mores, such as wearing dress up clothes in a catholic/private school, or wearing a cap and gown for graduation, or having oneself come neat to work, etc. Where does God, however, make the veil a necessity for going to a mosque or for going to Eid or Ramadhan celebrations?
Either you want to have a constructive argument or you just want to complain.
It's the former. You are getting rowdy for no necessary reason. Please, keep calm and speak in peace.
What are you talking about?????
I'm asking you to point out to me the identifying marks of the muslimeen. Please, the question is simple enough.
Well I surely doubt most Muslims think of Nuns and Jewish women when they think of a headcovering.
They do not need to. It does not change the fact that it is not exclusive to what many muslim women do.
So you believe that babies are non-believers??
I'm not sure why you would assume that. I believe babies are born with a clean slate and are conditioned in their beliefs. They are neither believers or non-believers. A true believer is one not only in profession but in one's life. I doubt children choose to be mumin or muslimeen until they understand the principle and make the decision on their own.
What about respecting others? What are you going to teach them about that???
Well I do believe in the practice of setting an example for one's child, but one still cannot force them to be muslim, no matter what you put on them or say they are. It is disturbing when I see teenagers and adults brought up in a muslim family and they know they are not muslimeen because it is not in their nature to act as such. They want to do other things contrary to being a muslim and they do so to an extent. I will advice my child according to my scrupples and beliefs but I will no tell my child that s/he should take my stance on this or that thing. I will encourage self-discovery and exploration. There's a difference in offering advice and teaching from forcing something on someone. The only thing I will enforce are my rules so long as the child is under my guardianship.
Kids--- Identity.
Is it really the child's identity?
Last time I checked God said covered your zinat excpet what is apparent. Who hte heck are you to define that for any one else?
I am the plain warner .
Your question is wrong in the first place because babies aren't non-believers! They don't reject God!
No, my question is not wrong. I did not say babies were believers or non-believers.
I make it an idenitifying factor for simpliticy, becuase many Muslims use it as that.
Okay I understand but in my opinion might does not make right. The majority is not necessarily in the right.
You won't win on that.
Of course not! I only want to know where God makes it obligatory and for the reasons you say.
"Khimar' is the word used that many Muslim find their juitificuation for a headcovering, whcih is another subject in itself.
Khimar means cover, it can also, like hijab, mean veil. Hijab is not used in the reading as a veil nor is khimar. In ayat 24/31 is is said draw your khumur/coverings over you juyoob. Juyoob is not head. Also keep in mind that the ayat makes it clear that khimar is something that has been worn before and should be used for this particular reason.
Joe
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Salaam!
In the Quran, Allah states "Say to
the believing men that they should lower their gaze and guard their
modesty...And say to the believing women that they should lower their
gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty
and adornments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they
should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty
except to their husbands, their fathers...(a list of exceptions)"From this,I believe clothing must cover the entire body, with
the exception of the face and the hands/arms and feet,and I am not convinced about the hair,but I see nothing wrong with wearing a head covering if one decides to or if its tradition, but not a face covering. In other words clothing should not be form fitting, sheer or so eye-catching as to attract undue attention or reveal the shape of the body because the Quran says to guard modesty.
Mini skirts,tight pants,shorts etc.. dont show modesty..
Likewise men should similarly not wear tight, sheer, revealing, or eye-catching clothing. Men should also guard their modesty.Bicycle pants,tight jeans,etc..dont show modesty.So it goes both ways..Allah and his word the Quran should be our guide for modesty,not Mans.
The word "KHuMuR" in 2431 is a plural noun that comes from the root word of "KHaMaRa" which means, "to cover". It is used for any cover, not exclusively for headscarves. An extensive Arabic dictionary, Lisan-ul Arab, informs us that the word was even used for rugs and carpets, since they cover the floor. The singular form of the same word "KHaMR", has been used for intoxicants, which "cover" the mind (590). In verse 2431, God advises female believers to maintain their chastity and put their covers on their chests, not their heads! Additionally, the word "fel yedribne = they shall put, they shall cover" is significant in that verse. If KHuMuR meant head cover, instead of this verb, "fel yudnine = they shall lengthen" (like in 3359) would be more appropriate.
Another distortion involves the word "ZiYNa" of verse 2431. Muslim clergymen have abused this word to cover women from head to toe. They considered almost all parts of female body as ZiYNa. Reflecting on the rituals of ablution for the daily prayers, one can easily infer that women can publicly open their faces, hair, arms, and feet as an act of worship (56). Therefore, opening their faces and arms is indeed an act of worship; and they are not required to worship in secret or segregated places (17110). If a man stares at a woman who is taking ablution and is sexually aroused it is not her fault, but it is either a symptom of his psychological problems or an indication of the deep-rooted problems in that society. By requiring women to cover any of these parts of their body, religious scholars have turned a religious ritual into a matter of sexual expression.
It is up to women to cover themselves for their own protection. It is not up to men or moral police to mandate or impose this divine instruction on women, since the instruction is personal and specific to women. Besides, the language of the instruction is deliberately designed to accommodate different cultures, norms, conditions, and individual comfort level. -
As SAlaam Alaikum PeacefulMuslim,
Hi Noprogressive,
Has it not occured to you that maybe those little kids are only wearing hijabs on their heads becuase it may be a special occasion??????
I honestly doubt if thats the case in many who make their children wear hijab.
yea, for those who "make" their kids wear hijab, they are making their kids where it everyday. But as I recall its you who posted many pics of little girls wearing hijab.
One was a pic of a little girl wearing it a protest of the hijab ban, another looked at if she was one at some congration, i'm assuming congergational prayer, the other it was evident that she was on some Islamic tv station. Actually all of them, with the exception of maybe two, really do seem that there is some "special occasion" surrounding these girls. Actually, if I could, I would bet that all of them are at some significant occasion except for the girl in purple.
Basically you chose very bad examples because these definitly don't look like day-to-day life pictures. If these did look like day-to-day pictures then your comment of "These kids are made to wear hijab becoz...........? Being modest? Should they lower their gazes too? " would be appropriate... but instead it appears that you just manipulated a situation and took it out of context.
So, there are people who cover up their children like that, all the time.
I don't deny it.
I dont see why hijab is a symbol of identity in children? whats the need for identity? is it important that children be identified according to their religion of birth?
I can't believe that you all are insisting on arguing this.
Yes you are right there is no need for religious identity on a young child. BUT you have taken something very quite simple of a someone identifying their child as this and put it into an extreme level... implying force on the parents part. What the heck? Implying that the paretns even believe that this is "important" to do, when that very well be not the case.
To me it's like this.
Every year thousands of people join soririties. After they graduate from college, they may have a kid. And as a baby, the parent may by that kid some baby outfit where the parent's sority is well written on the kids shirt. "I am 'Sority Name' Baby". It's a very cute and simple thing.
But I'm guessing a person like you would take offense to that correct? That baby hasn't agreed to be in the sority. That baby hasn't said that it believes in hte same thing that, that soritiy believes in. I can just imagine you protesting and whining to the parent about "Why does you child need to be apart of a sority? Why are you making them wear it?" Taking something totally innocent and making it a case of a "forcing opinion" on children. That's bull. And don't say that the importance of "religion" is different from the case of joing a sorirty, becuase to many families it's a big issue and generation after generation have joined the same.
You just seem bitter, seriously.
salaam
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Peace
I can't believe that you all are insisting on arguing this.
You should learn to except that people do. People argue over many things, many times over, from one epoch to the next.
That baby hasn't said that it believes in hte same thing that, that soritiy believes in.
You're mixing apples and oranges. You say that hijab is indentification for the children. Now you are comparing that with a shirt that is not identifying a kid.
And don't say that the importance of "religion" is different from the case of joing a sorirty
Please do not tell people what not to say as long as it does not violate forum rules.
Joe
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Hi NoProgressive,
I dont understand why u r getting so defensive unnecessarily.
Has it not occured to you that maybe those little kids are only wearing hijabs on their heads becuase it may be a special occasion??????
I honestly doubt if thats the case in many who make their children wear hijab.
yea, for those who "make" their kids wear hijab, they are making their kids where it everyday.
Ok. I am talking of people who make children wear hijab regularly too.
But as I recall its you who posted many pics of little girls wearing hijab.
Well, yeah. I did, so?
One was a pic of a little girl wearing it a protest of the hijab ban, another looked at if she was one at some congration, i'm assuming congergational prayer, the other it was evident that she was on some Islamic tv station. Actually all of them, with the exception of maybe two, really do seem that there is some "special occasion" surrounding these girls. Actually, if I could, I would bet that all of them are at some significant occasion except for the girl in purple.
Basically you chose very bad examples because these definitly don't look like day-to-day life pictures. If these did look like day-to-day pictures then your comment of "These kids are made to wear hijab becoz...........? Being modest? Should they lower their gazes too? " would be appropriate... but instead it appears that you just manipulated a situation and took it out of context.
U should take a closer look at the pictures. Except for the one in the protest 'on hijab ban' and the one holding a poster, every one else seem to be wearing it casually. We are not discussing these specific children anyways. We are talking of female children who are made to wear hijab. The pictures are just to emphasise as an example.
So, there are people who cover up their children like that, all the time.
I don't deny it.
Then, what exactly are u arguing about? Coz I am opining on the same.
I dont see why hijab is a symbol of identity in children? whats the need for identity? is it important that children be identified according to their religion of birth?
I can't believe that you all are insisting on arguing this.
It was u who brought up the ''identity'' thing. So, now what? We should accept what u say? I remember u mentioning in some thread, that u r MADE to wear Headcover, becoz of ur father's beliefs. Do u think he makes u wear it so as to identify u? Get real.
I have never heard this excuse from some such parents who cover up their young kids. They do so becoz they think its their religious reponsibility. Do u get it? They feel females hould be covered up. So, some begin with the a very young age, so that the child gets used to it and some others believe that even children(since females) are required to be covered up.Yes you are right there is no need for religious identity on a young child. BUT you have taken something very quite simple of a someone identifying their child as this and put it into an extreme level... implying force on the parents part. What the heck?
I quite dont undertstand what ur point is.
Funny u think, that 1 or 2 or 3 yr old females being obsessively covered up all the time, for religious reasons is quite simple.
What kind of identity are u talking of? Does it apply to u as well?.
Implying that the paretns even believe that this is "important" to do, when that very well be not the case
.
I am talking of people where that is the case. If its not so in some, thats fine. But in whom thats the case, I feel they r overdoing it.To me it's like this.
Every year thousands of people join soririties. After they graduate from college, they may have a kid. And as a baby, the parent may by that kid some baby outfit where the parent's sority is well written on the kids shirt. "I am 'Sority Name' Baby". It's a very cute and simple thing.
But I'm guessing a person like you would take offense to that correct? That baby hasn't agreed to be in the sority. That baby hasn't said that it believes in hte same thing that, that soritiy believes in. I can just imagine you protesting and whining to the parent about "Why does you child need to be apart of a sority? Why are you making them wear it?" Taking something totally innocent and making it a case of a "forcing opinion" on children. That's bull. And don't say that the importance of "religion" is different from the case of joing a sorirty, becuase to many families it's a big issue and generation after generation have joined the same.U clearly dont see the difference, do u? Coz ur comparison is totally absurd.
You just seem bitter, seriously.
U should take a long look at ur self. U r responding in a defensive manner unnecessarily.
U r young, it would help u if u calm down and think before u speak. I dont see the need for u to react the way u did, even if opinions differ.I have no problems with people wearing hijab. Its everyone's personal decission to do what they wish.
What I tried to point out was female children are made to wear hijab, for the so called ''religious reasons''. This is what I think is silly. The actual religious reason for covering up adequately, being modesty doesnt involve young children at all.Children are chidren. Let them just be. This is what I am trying to say.
Peace!
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Hijab has nothing to do with Islam. If one wants to ware it then good luck!
It not from the book of Allah. I do not see why people has taken twisted it in to an Islamic identitiy issue
You go and tell that to the millions of Black Hijab wearing women in Saudi Arabia, Iran and the rest of the middle east! But you can't because it is the men who imprison them in the first place.
Regards,
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In uk & uae, I see so many girls who'll wear the hijab, but then have the tightest jeans or skimpiest top they can find. What's the point. I'm seeing this trend more and more in the uk among younger generation.
luckly for them I'm usally in a rush otherwise I'd stop and ask them.
peace.
OMG! That is sooo true! I know a couple of girls who wear capri pants, short tops, spaghetti straps, and a huge hijab on! It's like, why bother??? ?
Salam,
There are some muslimwomen who wear headscarfs because of their culture and not always of their belief. It has to do with the pressure in the environment. I noticed that some muslimwomen only wear the headscarf because of fear. Fear of getting rejected by the sunni/muslim community.
I for example know a girl who wears a headscarf because it makes her feel safe. It's not because of her belief, although she's a sunni, it's because of the environment she lives in. She feels she gets more respect when wearing a headscarf. And also because her family is very strict.
So whenever you see a girl who looks trendy but is wearing a hijaab, ask yourself the question if she wears it because of her belief or because of her environment. -
As Salaam Alaikum Heart,
So whenever you see a girl who looks trendy but is wearing a hijaab, ask yourself the question if she wears it because of her belief or because of her environment.
Are you saying that hijabis who believe that it is an obligation are not trendy people??
salaam
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As Salaam Alaikum Heart,
So whenever you see a girl who looks trendy but is wearing a hijaab, ask yourself the question if she wears it because of her belief or because of her environment.
Are you saying that hijabis who believe that it is an obligation are not trendy people??
salaam
Salam,
Some hijabis who believe that it's an obligation most of the time cover up in 'islamicclothes' and don't show interest in 'Western' fashion. That doesn't mean that there ain't hijabis who are very trendy and up to date with the latest fashion.
Sorry, if it came over as if I was saying that hijabis can't be trendy. That's not how I wanted to come over.
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I wear hijab, I don't believe anything is wrong with it. It's a form of modesty.
People keep saying it's a tradition it's a tradition, a tradition of who? and what? so let's assume it's a tradition, is it contradicting islam? no it isn't, so then there shouldn't be anything wrong with it.
wouldn't it be immodest to have been wearing hijab then taking it off? today in society you can walk around half naked and noone cares it's a custom, so through times peoples definition of modesty changes, so then do we suit the interpretation of todays lifestyle in so called 'modest' clothing and follow that.
Whats the limit of modesty... anyway everyone has their opinions we can blab on about this for ever...
you know your soul intention, you know if you dress to impress, if you dress to be modest etc. Allah swt is there watching. He will judge you so you just pray you do the right thing and dont wory about anyone else.
Asalamu alaikum
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Peace
A tradition does not equal something that is wrong in my opinion.
It may be wrong to say that hijab is what God has said is modest or that it is a needed article of clothing to attain to modesty. Depending on the context in which it is worn it could be either.
wouldn't it be immodest to have been wearing hijab then taking it off?
I do not think so. It may be a little hypocritical.
Joe