My Thoughts On These Debates So Far
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I swear i posted a reply to SM. Maybe the gremlins deleted it. But here it is again.
I disagree with you that Quran wasn't supposed to be used for run a country.
Thats alright. Thats the beauty of free will.
I don't say that humans can't create rules and laws in a country but those rules and laws cannot go against Quran.
That is what i have been saying all along.
Of course there must be a law for how deal with a drunk drivers, but that was only an example that all laws mustn't exist in Quran.
Well, perhaps you can show me from the Quran where it talks about speeding?
What is the problem really, why you throw away Quran?
Dont make assumptions SM. No one is throwing away anything.
Is Quran only a beautiful book in your bookshelf????
Its there along with the Torah and the Bible. Its just a book. Altered and changed like the other two.
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Salaam Jaxal,
Oh so was someone really deleted your post?
Poor Jaxal!!!!!
Well can you be so kind and tell me what it means to run a country?
I'm waiting for your reply
Peace Majidah
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Anybody else want to offer their views on this, I think the debate under this thread could have the potential to be much more beneficial than under previous threads
Just a small comment mate
I really believe that the Quran supports democracy, the word democracy just didn't exist then
what I mean, all the Quran teachings is nothing but democracy, I may start looking for a few verses to support what I mean
the short definition for democracy is freedom, right?
peace
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Salaam!!
What I'm finding in most topics or posts by people and I'm no exception is that when an opinion is posted or a concept its not backed up by quranic verses and therefore its just like any writing or hadith. If we truly believe Quran is the very word of God then why aren't we posting verses. I'm God willing going to try and do that most often.
Jaxal I gotta disagree with you on this one brother. Quran is everything from a spiritual book to a book telling us the ONLY laws on how to run a society. Obviously it does not have every single crime and punishment in the Quran and thats left to us to decide just like it doesn't state the exact dress code for women and its left upto the women to decide.
You may say but the Quran says its fully detailed. My understanding and plz someone do correct me is that its fully detailed as far as God is concerned. He's given us a map(Quran) and we've got to walk the actual path(our life). The answers are all in the Quran about everything you want to know I believe.....it may not be specific but it certainly will give you an answer to a dilemma or situation you come across. Anyone got anymore about this fully detailed part of the Quran as I've come across people saying Quran is not fully detailed as it doesn't tell you how to build a fridge for example. lol
PEACE
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Salaam!!
You may say but the Quran says its fully detailed. My understanding and plz someone do correct me is that its fully detailed as far as God is concerned. He's given us a map(Quran) and we've got to walk the actual path(our life). The answers are all in the Quran about everything you want to know I believe.....it may not be specific bu it certainly will give you an answer to a dilemma or situation you come across. Anyone got anymore about this fully detailed part of the Quran as I've coem across people saying Quran is not fully detailed as it doesn't tell you how to build a fridge for example.
PEACEWell said bro
and that is my philisophy since i was 13 years old
peace be with you
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5101 O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, God will forgive those for God is Oft- forgiving, Most Forbearing.
It was very easy for Allah Taala to write down each and every detail in Qur'an. Allah Taala is certainly not in shortage of words. The basic complete system is already in Qur'an where all the secondary laws could be established in the light of Qur'an.
Speeding and drunk driving is very easy issues to resolved with the Qur'anic message. Computer hacking is a crime because it is intrude privacy law which is very clearly defined in Qur'an not to walk in anybody's home without permission.
The people who believe Qur'an is altered changed book will never understand the message of Qur'an. Qur'an only opens up for the people who had faith in Allah Taala his His words.
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What I'm finding in most topics or posts by people and I'm no exception is that when an opinion is posted or a concept its not backed up by quranic verses and therefore its just like any writing or hadith. If we truly believe Quran is the very word of God then why aren't we posting verses. I'm God willing going to try and do that most often.
Jaxal I gotta disagree with you on this one brother. Quran is everything from a spiritual book to a book telling us the ONLY laws on how to run a society. Obviously it does not have every single crime and punishment in the Quran and thats left to us to decide just like it doesn't state the exact dress code for women and its left upto the women to decide.
You may say but the Quran says its fully detailed. My understanding and plz someone do correct me is that its fully detailed as far as God is concerned. He's given us a map(Quran) and we've got to walk the actual path(our life). The answers are all in the Quran about everything you want to know I believe.....it may not be specific bu it certainly will give you an answer to a dilemma or situation you come across. Anyone got anymore about this fully detailed part of the Quran as I've coem across people saying Quran is not fully detailed as it doesn't tell you how to build a fridge for example.
2pac, did weed help to achieve this epiphany? If it did, I may well reconsider my position on it (jk although LoteTree will misquote me on this, im sure)
Allah calls al-quraan 'tafseel kulli SHAI'IN'/detailling of every THING. Maybe whats outside al-quraan isn't a 'thing' to Allah? Allah only cares that we follow what the essence of humankind.
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Salaam 2-pac,
The best you have said so far
There isn't any wrong with Quran it's only wrong with ppl's minds, how they see things.
Peace Majidah
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SaLaM SM and 2Pac
SM Running a country means that Quran has EVERY SINGLE THING one needs to run a country. Kind of like A to Z of running a country. Do you believe that Quran is an A to Z for running a country?
2Pac Brother answer this. If i asked you to run a country, would you look at the Quran? People who are saying Quran is all they need to run a country mean that Quran is LITERALLY all they need to run a country. Do you beleive that brother? No outside source. Nothing. JUST the Quran. Do you believe that the Quran is ALL we need to run a country?
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salaam Jaxal,
I don't feel to reply on such an easy to run away explanation.
Come on Jaxal, don't act like a kid, please.
Give me a real explanation.
Peace Majidah
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Salaam 2-pac,
The best you have said so far D
There isn't any wrong with Quran it's only wrong with ppl's minds, how they see things.
Peace Majidah
Oh thanks Majidah ) Appreciate the feedback.
2pac, did weed help to achieve this epiphany? If it did, I may well reconsider my position on it (jk although LoteTree will misquote me on this, im sure)
Allah calls al-quraan 'tafseel kulli SHAI'IN'/detailling of every THING. Maybe whats outside al-quraan isn't a 'thing' to Allah? Allah only cares that we follow what the essence of humankind.
Well brother mquran it may have or may not have. I guess its upto you to VERIFY that yourself wink Natural meditation is the best though but i prefer the easy way sumtimes and just cheat myself and light up - aint good for the lungs though so got to be careful. Why not try it?? wink
PEACE
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SaLaM SM
Well maybe you should be clear about how deep of an explaination you require. You asked
Well can you be so kind and tell me what it means to run a country?
To which i said
Running a country means that Quran has EVERY SINGLE THING one needs to run a country.
Its to the point. I thought that would have been enough. What do you mean by 'real explaination' ?
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Well brother mquran it may have or may not have. I guess its upto you to VERIFY that yourself Natural meditation is the best though but i prefer the easy way sumtimes and just cheat myself and light up - aint good for the lungs though so got to be careful. Why not try it??
Hehe, its ok, thanks anyhow. I find ramadhan readings give me the natural high of reading, i guess that'll have to do.
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Salam everyone
2Pac-notts i don't have words to describe your post. I admire your words of wisdom. bravo
Your way of thinking was inspirational and this is what we keep forgetting.
We don't need a verse of the Quran for every thing we think or do,we just need its inspiration.Its funny though how America can give someone the death penalty and in the uk you can put some one behind bars for the rest of their life but Islamic laws are seen as barbaric.
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Salaam Jaxal,
Oh i give up about you, sorry.
Peace Sis Majidah
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SaLaM SM and 2Pac
2Pac Brother answer this. If i asked you to run a country, would you look at the Quran? People who are saying Quran is all they need to run a country mean that Quran is LITERALLY all they need to run a country. Do you beleive that brother? No outside source. Nothing. JUST the Quran. Do you believe that the Quran is ALL we need to run a country?
Salaam Jaxal!
Brother your falling into the same trap as sunni/shias. They weren't happy with using the Quran and their own minds on how to run their lives and therefore ran to other books for answers which ended up giving them more problems roll
You wrote outside source ive highlighted. What outside source are you referring to??All sources come from God don't they??
I believe Quran is all that we need to run the counrty. Quran tells me to think and use my brain and to debate/consultation. Did the Quran say the punishment for a drink driver??Obviously not and just because it's not mentioned in the Quran doesn't mean its not fully detailed. We just use our own reasoning and sound judgement God gives us to decide on that instead. YOUR MIND IS THE MICROSCOPE BROTHER JUST USE IT AND THE QURAN WILL BECOME FULLY DETAILED wink
And We strengthened his kingship, and We gave him the wisdom and the ability to make sound judgement. 3820
PEACE
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SaLaM 2Pac
Before i continue, know this. We have a difference of opinion on this topic. And thats alright. you are a brother to me.
They weren't happy with using the Quran and their own minds on how to run their lives and therefore ran to other books for answers which ended up giving them more problems
They ran to hadiths. That is why they had problem.
You wrote outside source ive highlighted. What outside source are you referring to??All sources come from God don't they?
Anything outside the Quran. So for example, if a group of scientist need to build a rocket, we will have to look outside the Quran to detemine the saftey features, the laws regarding space travel. This is just an example. Or how about vehicles. The laws required to govern the transport system. The saftey, the rules, and all that goes with it. How can you say that if you were the transport manager and asked to write up a book on laws and regulation regarding transports, you will look towards the Quran?
As far as Quran being fully detailed. What is the Quran fully detailed about? Does it explains algebra? Or quantum physics? Or how about e=mc2. Does it explain that? Ofcourse not. Quran is not 'fully detailed'. Quran is only detailed on how to get in good graces of God. Even then Quran says to consult he previous scriptures if in doubt.
We just use our own reasoning and sound judgement God gives us to decide on that instead.
So you would use your sound judgment to determine the punishment to be given to a drunk driver. The punishment for one who is smuggling drugs will also be different. And in these cases, we wont look at the Quran becoz Quran doesnt give monkey's nuts about drunk drivers and drug smugglers. Quran is only concerned about OUR salvation. There is no denying that Quran gives us a moral code to live by. One does not even need the Quran to get in God's good graces. And Quran is not the only book to give us such moral codes. The previous scriptures do the job too, that is if you seperate the BS in there.
The moment when we decide to use our own sound reasoning and judgement to make a law, the whole 'Quran is all i need to run a country' goes out the window. You cant have it both ways.