My Thoughts On These Debates So Far
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5101 O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble. But if ye ask about things when the Qur'an is being revealed, they will be made plain to you, God will forgive those for God is Oft- forgiving, Most Forbearing.
It was very easy for Allah Taala to write down each and every detail in Qur'an. Allah Taala is certainly not in shortage of words. The basic complete system is already in Qur'an where all the secondary laws could be established in the light of Qur'an.
Speeding and drunk driving is very easy issues to resolved with the Qur'anic message. Computer hacking is a crime because it is intrude privacy law which is very clearly defined in Qur'an not to walk in anybody's home without permission.
The people who believe Qur'an is altered changed book will never understand the message of Qur'an. Qur'an only opens up for the people who had faith in Allah Taala his His words.
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What I'm finding in most topics or posts by people and I'm no exception is that when an opinion is posted or a concept its not backed up by quranic verses and therefore its just like any writing or hadith. If we truly believe Quran is the very word of God then why aren't we posting verses. I'm God willing going to try and do that most often.
Jaxal I gotta disagree with you on this one brother. Quran is everything from a spiritual book to a book telling us the ONLY laws on how to run a society. Obviously it does not have every single crime and punishment in the Quran and thats left to us to decide just like it doesn't state the exact dress code for women and its left upto the women to decide.
You may say but the Quran says its fully detailed. My understanding and plz someone do correct me is that its fully detailed as far as God is concerned. He's given us a map(Quran) and we've got to walk the actual path(our life). The answers are all in the Quran about everything you want to know I believe.....it may not be specific bu it certainly will give you an answer to a dilemma or situation you come across. Anyone got anymore about this fully detailed part of the Quran as I've coem across people saying Quran is not fully detailed as it doesn't tell you how to build a fridge for example.
2pac, did weed help to achieve this epiphany? If it did, I may well reconsider my position on it (jk although LoteTree will misquote me on this, im sure)
Allah calls al-quraan 'tafseel kulli SHAI'IN'/detailling of every THING. Maybe whats outside al-quraan isn't a 'thing' to Allah? Allah only cares that we follow what the essence of humankind.
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Salaam 2-pac,
The best you have said so far
There isn't any wrong with Quran it's only wrong with ppl's minds, how they see things.
Peace Majidah
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SaLaM SM and 2Pac
SM Running a country means that Quran has EVERY SINGLE THING one needs to run a country. Kind of like A to Z of running a country. Do you believe that Quran is an A to Z for running a country?
2Pac Brother answer this. If i asked you to run a country, would you look at the Quran? People who are saying Quran is all they need to run a country mean that Quran is LITERALLY all they need to run a country. Do you beleive that brother? No outside source. Nothing. JUST the Quran. Do you believe that the Quran is ALL we need to run a country?
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salaam Jaxal,
I don't feel to reply on such an easy to run away explanation.
Come on Jaxal, don't act like a kid, please.
Give me a real explanation.
Peace Majidah
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Salaam 2-pac,
The best you have said so far D
There isn't any wrong with Quran it's only wrong with ppl's minds, how they see things.
Peace Majidah
Oh thanks Majidah ) Appreciate the feedback.
2pac, did weed help to achieve this epiphany? If it did, I may well reconsider my position on it (jk although LoteTree will misquote me on this, im sure)
Allah calls al-quraan 'tafseel kulli SHAI'IN'/detailling of every THING. Maybe whats outside al-quraan isn't a 'thing' to Allah? Allah only cares that we follow what the essence of humankind.
Well brother mquran it may have or may not have. I guess its upto you to VERIFY that yourself wink Natural meditation is the best though but i prefer the easy way sumtimes and just cheat myself and light up - aint good for the lungs though so got to be careful. Why not try it?? wink
PEACE
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SaLaM SM
Well maybe you should be clear about how deep of an explaination you require. You asked
Well can you be so kind and tell me what it means to run a country?
To which i said
Running a country means that Quran has EVERY SINGLE THING one needs to run a country.
Its to the point. I thought that would have been enough. What do you mean by 'real explaination' ?
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Well brother mquran it may have or may not have. I guess its upto you to VERIFY that yourself Natural meditation is the best though but i prefer the easy way sumtimes and just cheat myself and light up - aint good for the lungs though so got to be careful. Why not try it??
Hehe, its ok, thanks anyhow. I find ramadhan readings give me the natural high of reading, i guess that'll have to do.
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Salam everyone
2Pac-notts i don't have words to describe your post. I admire your words of wisdom. bravo
Your way of thinking was inspirational and this is what we keep forgetting.
We don't need a verse of the Quran for every thing we think or do,we just need its inspiration.Its funny though how America can give someone the death penalty and in the uk you can put some one behind bars for the rest of their life but Islamic laws are seen as barbaric.
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Salaam Jaxal,
Oh i give up about you, sorry.
Peace Sis Majidah
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SaLaM SM and 2Pac
2Pac Brother answer this. If i asked you to run a country, would you look at the Quran? People who are saying Quran is all they need to run a country mean that Quran is LITERALLY all they need to run a country. Do you beleive that brother? No outside source. Nothing. JUST the Quran. Do you believe that the Quran is ALL we need to run a country?
Salaam Jaxal!
Brother your falling into the same trap as sunni/shias. They weren't happy with using the Quran and their own minds on how to run their lives and therefore ran to other books for answers which ended up giving them more problems roll
You wrote outside source ive highlighted. What outside source are you referring to??All sources come from God don't they??
I believe Quran is all that we need to run the counrty. Quran tells me to think and use my brain and to debate/consultation. Did the Quran say the punishment for a drink driver??Obviously not and just because it's not mentioned in the Quran doesn't mean its not fully detailed. We just use our own reasoning and sound judgement God gives us to decide on that instead. YOUR MIND IS THE MICROSCOPE BROTHER JUST USE IT AND THE QURAN WILL BECOME FULLY DETAILED wink
And We strengthened his kingship, and We gave him the wisdom and the ability to make sound judgement. 3820
PEACE
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SaLaM 2Pac
Before i continue, know this. We have a difference of opinion on this topic. And thats alright. you are a brother to me.
They weren't happy with using the Quran and their own minds on how to run their lives and therefore ran to other books for answers which ended up giving them more problems
They ran to hadiths. That is why they had problem.
You wrote outside source ive highlighted. What outside source are you referring to??All sources come from God don't they?
Anything outside the Quran. So for example, if a group of scientist need to build a rocket, we will have to look outside the Quran to detemine the saftey features, the laws regarding space travel. This is just an example. Or how about vehicles. The laws required to govern the transport system. The saftey, the rules, and all that goes with it. How can you say that if you were the transport manager and asked to write up a book on laws and regulation regarding transports, you will look towards the Quran?
As far as Quran being fully detailed. What is the Quran fully detailed about? Does it explains algebra? Or quantum physics? Or how about e=mc2. Does it explain that? Ofcourse not. Quran is not 'fully detailed'. Quran is only detailed on how to get in good graces of God. Even then Quran says to consult he previous scriptures if in doubt.
We just use our own reasoning and sound judgement God gives us to decide on that instead.
So you would use your sound judgment to determine the punishment to be given to a drunk driver. The punishment for one who is smuggling drugs will also be different. And in these cases, we wont look at the Quran becoz Quran doesnt give monkey's nuts about drunk drivers and drug smugglers. Quran is only concerned about OUR salvation. There is no denying that Quran gives us a moral code to live by. One does not even need the Quran to get in God's good graces. And Quran is not the only book to give us such moral codes. The previous scriptures do the job too, that is if you seperate the BS in there.
The moment when we decide to use our own sound reasoning and judgement to make a law, the whole 'Quran is all i need to run a country' goes out the window. You cant have it both ways.
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Peace mq, 2pac,
I personally wouldnt get involved in a group where decisions are made democratically. It doesn't work. The best way is to carve out your own domain and rule singly. I await a person who's inspired to follow the book and I will line up behind him, inshaa Allah.
I can understand why of course. On the other hand, and this is the question that has me thinking is, what if he doesn't turn up in our lifetimes? Should we just wait? This entity hasn't turned up in my parents lifetimes either...Why not make a go of it until the man arrives? What would be the ramifications of such a decision? What if there is one person who comes out and is sincere in achieving this objective? In the end, if it comes down to, it just won't work...at least we are trying instead of waiting...maybe thats the process that would help...
Nadia, the thing is, all these questions have been answered. The problem is, some of us simply reject the book. You may think im being harsh or judgemental but im simply looking at the book and looking at personalities and i see the people who claim to believe refusing to refer to Allah and his rasool. The book is so clear about methodology. The question if we submit or we do not.
I agree with you. The thing is, I judge and you judge. I have no problems in judging with empirical evidence...I don't think it was a question about being judgemental, , it was me telling you to stop wasting your time because you were getting riled up and it was not pretty when jackie came into the picture hehe amongst other things...but thats neither here nor there.
Im finding in most topics or posts by people and I'm no exception is that when an opinion is posted or a concept its not backed up by quranic verses and therefore its just like any writing or hadith. If we truly believe Quran is the very word of God then why aren't we posting verses.
I believe due to the nature of this discussion being spread out over several threads, it didn't come into play due to fatigue. The verses were posted in the start, especially in mq's case...many times...
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I can understand why of course. On the other hand, and this is the question that has me thinking is, what if he doesn't turn up in our lifetimes? Should we just wait? This entity hasn't turned up in my parents lifetimes either...Why not make a go of it until the man arrives? What would be the ramifications of such a decision? What if there is one person who comes out and is sincere in achieving this objective? In the end, if it comes down to, it just won't work...at least we are trying instead of waiting...maybe thats the process that would help...
Oh but Allah sends messengers to every ummah ) so we will get to see messengers in our lifetimes. The question is, will we inadvertently reject him? This is why I was careful with our man Shareef back there. He's ok with linguistics, but I doubt he's a messenger.
I believe due to the nature of this discussion being spread out over several threads, it didn't come into play due to fatigue. The verses were posted in the start, especially in mq's case...many times
To me, this is always an indicative of our alignment with the book, i.e. whatever we say will concord with the ayaat. In the democracy thread, my cyber voice grew hoarse asking for evidence from the book. Its not about flexing your memory muscle ( "i know more ayaat than you") but just trying to keep to the path. Its not easy but it has to be done.
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Tahira I believe Jaxal has a point. The Quran seems to apply to our emotional, physical and spiritual needs and not for things like driving above the speed limit, or forgetting to get planning permission to build something.
Tahira, can I ask you something Why do people drive over the speed limit?
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Oh but Allah sends messengers to every ummah so we will get to see messengers in our lifetimes. The question is, will we inadvertently reject him? This is why I was careful with our man Shareef back there. He's ok with linguistics, but I doubt he's a messenger.
Yes, in the general scheme of things I agree with you...that one person who's sincere, it could be anyone in any community...and we can gauge this by how in accord they are with what the reading says...
To me, this is always an indicative of our alignment with the book, i.e. whatever we say will concord with the ayaat. In the democracy thread, my cyber voice grew hoarse asking for evidence from the book. Its not about flexing your memory muscle ( "i know more ayaat than you") but just trying to keep to the path. Its not easy but it has to be done.
Of course...completely agree.
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Salaam Jaxal!
Ok with that being said how do we explain this verse then;
Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed?Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.
I've highlighted the important parts of this verse. How do you explain this verse then??I'm not trying to be patronising but we can debate about this punishment or that punishment for a particular case but let's go back to the Quran and see what it implies. My understanding of the verse is clear from the underlining of the parts;
GOD IS THE SOURCE OF LAW - Doesn't say what type of law so it would be safe to say it means any kind of law be it social law OR religious(system) law.
QURAN IS FULLY DETAILED - This is the main part we're debating on which is tricky. Obviously it doesn't detail how to punish a specific crime or making a rocket and I do see your point. Are we to just believe the verse or understand it before believing it???In my personal opinion I believe what it says but its hard to explain or understand in what way its fully detailed and I'm still investigating that part. Can anyone else help with this ?
PEACE