the God's laws
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Hi Marie,
First off, I must say i enjoy your posts alot. They're very informative and well-written though i may not always share your opinion-)
"Can" refers to a "potential". When we say for example "God can kill you this very moment", we mean that God has the potential, the abilty and the resources to kill you this very moment. But it does not mean that God actually does kill you this very moment.
Similiarly, god does have the potential to change the laws, but it doesn't mean that God will or has ever changed them. In addition, it wouldn't make too much sense to make a law, and then change it out of nowhere. It sounds like a "play". And as far as i know, God doesn't play with this
world.The laws of god where in absolute balance when first made, and so they'll stay forever. What's point in changing them?
I believe "changing of laws" is a human concept where a man realizes that his laws are inefficient and needs revising. God allways knew what law fits best, and made that one.
I must admit, i haven't given this too much thought. So I'm probably over-looking something, i hope you or someone else will bring those thing to my attention.
Nadee.m.
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Peace,
I do not believe that God changes His rules. I believe everything that occurs is prescripted/triggers in the system. This, of course, excludes inspiration as I think the nature of inspiration is dynamic and interactive (to our perspective?!?)...What He has designed is perfect and the system can do anything it is designed to do within it's given parameters.
PAST TENSE EXAMPLES
The God did not make their hearing and sight go away and the shade motionless (see 220, 2545)
Do you not see to your Lord how He extended/spread the shade? And LW He willed, He would have made it still/motionless, then We made/put the sun on it as a proof/evidence.
In this example, we see that the counterfactual y = "the shade would be made still" while the actual is y' = "The shade is not still".
We are certain that outcome y will not occur because of the use of the counterfactual conditional. The use of the past tense indicates that the exclusion of the counterfactual outcome from the set of possible outcomes has already been decided by The God in the past (i.e. it is predestined).
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/freechoice.htm
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Peace all,
Thank you all for your inputs.
First off, I must say i enjoy your posts alot. They're very informative and well-written
Thanks for the compliment. I heard much good thing about you
though i may not always share your opinion
Fortunately I'm only human..
Similiarly, god does have the potential to change the laws, but it doesn't mean that God will or has ever changed them.
How do you understand 2168-69?
- They said Burn him, and give victory to your gods if you will do anything.
- We said O fire, be cool and safe upon Abraham.
The fact that God can "change" his rules "punctually" in the light of the Reading that doesn't affect the universal laws and its operation like the fire for Abraham. The fire keeps its properties before and after this story.
In addition, it wouldn't make too much sense to make a law, and then change it out of nowhere. It sounds like a "play". And as far as i know, God doesn't play with this world.
This is not a play to save Abraham from the fire and children of Israel from Pharahon oppression. But this is theGod's will.
Maybe the verb" to change" the rule is not accurate, but this is only the God's will.
Salam
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Peace,
The fire represents a distorted equipoise. This is the position the people were trying to put Abraham in. God however brought him composure. The rejectors ever seek to bring those with faith to their side. There must be noncooperation between the two.
Joe
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Peace sis marie,
Maybe the verb" to change" the rule is not accurate, but this is only the God's will.
I think it only seems to us the rules have changed, when it's capacity to occur is inherent in the system, thus no rules have actually changed. We have triggers that define when certain events occur and how they occur, that might not be what some may be expecting or an anomaly...but they are supported and a part of the system. I was thinking of a better term too.
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Peace Joe,
The God's will is not equal to the human will and one cannot compare the creator and who he is created, then I don't adhere to your theory.
Harriqooh / Burn him (216 is literal like alhareeq in 3181, 2097, imho.
We have to read before 2168 to get a big picture (21-58-67)
Do you also understand 2158 symbolically?
Chapter21
58. So he broke them into pieces except for the biggest of them, so that they may turn to him.
59. They said Who has done this to our gods? He is surely one of the wicked.
60. They said We heard a young man mentioning them. He was called Abraham.
61. They said Bring him before the eyes of the people so that they may be witness.
62. They said Did you do this to our gods O Abraham?
63. He said It was the biggest one of them here who did it, so ask them, if they do speak!
64. So they turned and said to themselves It is indeed ourselves who have been wicked!
65. Then they reverted to their old ideas You know that they do not speak!
66. He said Do you serve besides God that which does not benefit you at all nor harm you?
67. I am fed-up of you and to what you serve besides God! Do you not comprehend? -
Peace sis nadia,
Peace sis marie,
Maybe the verb" to change" the rule is not accurate, but this is only the God's will.
I think it only seems to us the rules have changed
Agree, this is why I have said that the verb "change" is not accurate. One cannot claim that the God's only acts according to our limited vision of the universal laws.
when it's capacity to occur is inherent in the system, thus no rules have actually changed. We have triggers that define when certain events occur and how they occur, that might not be what some may be expecting or an anomaly...but they are supported and a part of the system. I was thinking of a better term too.
Exact.
Salam
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Peace Marie,
Surely you know you need not adhere to my theory so long as you have derided any doubt you have. The method of authentification I've identified is decisive .
Do you also understand 2158 symbolically?
Yes. I believe that the teacher has provided abstract teachings through material representations. The literal approach is the basic approach. You will only realize the transcendental truths when you see it as a stepping stone.
Joe
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Salam all,
Allah made the rules and Allah can change them.
I agree with Taj and the following verse corroborates this understanding
FM
2545 Are you not aware of your Lord by His Works? ? How He spread the shade. And if He Willed, He could have made it still! Then We have made the sun its pilot. (He could have designed the Solar System differently with the earth remaining stationary).Shabir
2545 Are you not aware of your Lord by His Works? ? How He spread the shade. And if He Willed, He could have made it still! Then We have made the sun its pilot. (He could have designed the Solar System differently with the earth remaining stationary).Alam tara ila rabbika kayfa madda alththilla walaw shaa lajaAAalahu sakinan thumma jaAAalnaalshshamsa AAalayhi daleelan
Looking forward to your comment and understanding.
Thanks
Peace sister
I'm glad you posted this verse 2545, I have some deep thoughts regarding this verse and I want an intellgent native arabic speaker like you to think with me about it
but firstly let me answer your question, I believe that Allah has stablised the nature laws, the physics laws i mean, I haven't seen it changing in my 40 years of life neither I heard it has changed
regarding Allah laws to govern us i.e. "do and don't" i believe He can change it any time He wishs for our testing purposes, we have two examples in the Quran i will not post the verses though as I have to find them first
the first example was changing the Qiblah from one dirction to another and sure it created controversy
the second example was allowing the married man and woman to have sex in the month of ramadan but during the night time where eating is allowed, prior to that the men never touched their wives sexually during the whole month of ramadan, there might be other examples but that is what I can remeber on the fly
now for my thoughts about 2545, I posted a thread when I joined here about it but unfortunatly hardly anyone responded so I would like to take the chance you posted it and discuse it with you and sorry it is not related to your question about the laws of Allah
This is a tough one to understand but it is all logical and need a rational brain to understand it.
Firstly, 1400 years ago the understanding was the earth is stationary and everything in the sky rotate around it including the sun, i.e. 1400 years ago they considered the sun is the one that moves around the earth somehow, while this understanding was surely flawed in conjunction with their wrong understanding that the earth is flat and not round, so they thought the sun appears for its daily course to the whole flat earth at once then disappear to the other uninhibited flat side before it appears again as it rotates around the flat earth,
When another verse was revealed that said the sun runs to a destined point, no one wondered as they understood already that the sun moves around the earth, i.e. the verse did not cause any confusion stating that the sun moves
?And the sun runs on to a resting place; that is the ordinance of the Mighty, the Knowing.?
(3
-> The above verse did not cause any confusion to the Arabs, because they already thought that the sun runs around the stationary earth, their understanding was the earth is the centre of the heaven
-> But surely the verse does not talk about the sun running around the earth as it never said that rather the sun runs to an appointed place which is confirmed by the scientific discovery that the Sun moves along a path known as the Solar Apex in the path of the star Vega at an incredible speed of 720,000 kmph. I?m sure you all read about this scientific fact.
In verse 2545 I believe there is a hidden scientific fact the the earth moves around its axis , this verse starts with a very common Quran sentence ? ? which means in the common language ?Can?t you see??, whenever I see this Arabic words in the Quran I have to stop and carefully read what will follow, definitely it means that Allah is about to tell us a sign, the signs can be varied from a clear visual one to historical one to a simple fact, but what I found that whenever it is a scientific fact, it MUST comply with all generations understandings even if their understanding is flawed, like the movement of the sun that I explained above, and that is what I discovered with the help of Allah in verse 2545. The verse was stated in a way that does not conflict with whatever understanding at that time with miraculous use of short and briefed Arabic words, we will see that the verse is literally talking about a visual scientific miracle ?The movement of the shade?, that the people of the past can see clearly while thinking wrongly the shade moves due to the movement of the sun around earth, we will discover that the verse was talking indirectly about the earth as we all know that the shade movement is a product of the earth movement around its axis and has nothing to do with the movement of the sunalong the Apex path neither in its orbit around the black hole in the centre of our galaxy
Let?s first look at the verse and see if you can understand anything from it, it is telling us to investigate closely one of the signs of Allah represented in the movement of shades on earth
?Have you not considered (the work of) your Lord, how He extends the shade? And if He had pleased He would certainly have made it stationary; then We have made the sun an indication of it?
(45)
-> The verse starts by telling us to look at the sign of our God through the miracle of the shade movement ? ?Have you not considered (the work of) your Lord, how He extends the shade?? and in Arabic ? ?, very clear meaning in both Arabic and English, simply Allah is telling us to look at the shade of objects as this shade extends from 0 length to infinity and vise versa, then Allah is telling us that If He had pleased to stop the shade from moving He would have done so ? And if He had pleased He would certainly have made it stationary?, and in Arabic ? ?, Well, the Quran did not say that Allah will make the Sun stationary to cause the shadow to be stationary as the people of the past thought, so I understood it indirectly that Allah meant He would have stopped the earth from rotating around its axis.
But you may say this can be indirectly valid for the Sun too, i.e to stop the sun instead of stopping the earth according to their understanding at the time that the sun rotates around the stationary earth, which I agree if the sun was NEVER mentioned in the verse, however what came next in the verse surprised me then stroke me hard, Allah said straight after He he would have made the shadow stationary, then He would have made the Sun an evidence of the still shadow ?then We have made the sun an indication of it? and in Arabic ? ?
-> This is great stuff guys, Allah said that He will make the shade stationary without saying that he will make the sun stationary, this is an important point, because the Quran clearly said in another location 2133 that the sun swims in an orbit "which is around the Bback hole in the centre of our galaxy", i.e. if the Quran has said that the sun will be made stationary to make the shade stationary, no one 1425 years ago would have wondered because their understanding that the sun moves around earth and the Quran also said that the sun swim in an orbit ?NOT AROUND EARTH?, but if the Quran has said so i.e the Sun will be made stationary to make the shade stationary then this will conflict with science now days but not back then 1425 years ago, because we all know that the shade movement is a result from the earth rotation around its axis
-> Hence the Quran said that the shade will be made stationary and the sun will be an evidence that it is stationary, WITHOUT SAYING THAT SUN WILL BE MADE STATIONARY
-> Well any object on earth that have shade is actually part of the rotating earth even the atmosphere is part of the earth, i.e. when Allah said first that He will make the shadow stationary, He actually means that He will make the earth stationary around its axis then the sun will be there to prove that the shade ?and earth? are stationary without mentioning earth so no conflict arose with the people 1425 years ago when their understanding that the earth is stationary and can not be stopped because it is stationary
Please let me what do you think as I know it is a tough one but I will be happy to elaborate until cleared
Peace to all
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Hello Mary
just consider this logic please, if Allah makes the shade stationary, would that require an evidence to prove that it is staionary?
of course not, because we will see it stationary with our own eyes, so why you reckon Allah mentioned the sun as an evidence that the shade is stationary?
sure we need some sort of light on an object to produce a shade, but that also is common knowldge because of there is no light we will not see any shades,
so I believe to mention the sun as an evidence of the still shade is a hidden messge that the sun has nothing to do with the mobement of the shade
but Allah said he would have stopped the shade, and how the shade can be stopped?
it can only be stopped by stopping the earth from rotation around it axis
but why He didn't say so by stopping the earth instead of stopping the shade?, I believe to avoide causing any confusion to the people at that time and compromise the Quran message when Mohammad deleivers things that will conflict with the common understanding about nature NOT ABOUT GOD
I believe 2545 is more of a stronger message the late people than the earliest ones
Allah knows best
peace
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Salam Ahmad,
Thank you for your good analysis of 2545, that sound logic. I also retain that the God can made the shade immobile.
Regarding 2545, what is your understanding about the fire and Abraham in 21-58-69 ?
- They said Burn him, and give victory to your gods if you will do anything.
- We said O fire, be cool and safe upon Abraham.
Thanks
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Salam Ahmad,
Thank you for your good analysis of 2545, that sound logic. I also retain that the God can made the shade immobile.
Regarding 2545, what is your understanding about the fire and Abraham in 21-58-69 ?
- They said ?Burn him, and give victory to your gods if you will do anything.?
- We said ?O fire, be cool and safe upon Abraham.?
Thanks
Hello Marie
Thanks for your reply, i believe it makes great sense but I also believe it is not for the faint hearted to understand, you are the third person who managed to understand it now, out of about a 1000 I discussed it with.
It is nothing of great importance rather anonther evidence of the miraculous Arabic words of our God
For the story of Abraham and the fire, I really don't have much to say other than I believe in the Quran 100% and I also believe that this metaphor concept is a joke and can be refuted easily hence I believe it was a real fire and Abraham was put in it and Allah ordered it to be 'COOL & SAFE"
what impress me is this
we know the fire is hot so Allah has ordered it to be cool
but would that be eough for the safety of Abraham?, i don't think so because too much cold can also burn your skin that is why the order was be COOL AND SAFE
you see the above small note is enough to consider that what happened to Abraham was for real
while we didn't see it but we were requested to believe in the unseen, 22
the unseen for me is anything that I can't see but Allah told me me about it in the Quran
very simple indeed
peace be with you