To the Mods: Why is MQuran banned from the forum ?
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Hi M-Mehdi,
i agree that the rules of this forum are lax.. it's nice.. keeps the flow going...
please know.. i think it's a great idea for folks to learn how to start their own forums and aught to start their own forums in hopes to get whatever it is out of them..
but in light of Unity.. i disagree with this notion.. in order for Unity to come about we must have tollorance and love... rules help a little.. but mostly tollorance.. even more Love...But Mehdi, Its important that every one behaves in a civilized, respectful manner towards each other in order to have a constructive discussion and exchange of ideas. There is no point in going on and on with abuses and insults, when opinions differ. Unless such stuff stops, there cant be any healthy discussion.
Ofcourse we need tolerance and love for each other and for our differences, but we also need respect towards each other and humility. Whats mutual love without mutual respect?
We need rules and regulations to exsist in peace and participate, in any part of the society/community as well, dont we?the notions of "love or leave it"... are stupid.. and do not work! .. when are we as human beings going to learn there is NO WHERE TO RUN!
censorship and banning do not workMehdi, No one is saying, u got to accept a certain belief to stay in the forum. The rules only say that we ought to act in a civilized, respectful manner and thats important to participate in a discussion constructively.
as an example.. have any of you ever had a person who you disliked for one reason or another.. and then had this person leave you in life for some reason or another.. whether you left town or they left your school, or you quit your job or they got fired.. etc. etc..
until you make peace with yourself and this person... this person will keep popping up in your life... with one face or another? perhaps it's not the person who you dislike but that portion of the person inside of you.. which brings up such conflicting sentiments... ?
does this make any sense? or should i go back to sleeping on the stairs?
at one point we are going to have to deal... you know?Again Mehdi, There is no personal grudge on anyone. No body is being punished or warned for personal enemity or personal grudges. Only when their actions are at fault, they get warned or punished for their 'actions'.
So, its not about disliking a person at all.this is why banning doesn't work.. if there is a pain in your own body do you ban it.. do you hide it.. or do you find the means to cure it?
I didnt get the similarity that u r pointing at.
But while at it, even when u have pain, u do some thing about it and treat it, dont u?Peace!
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Peace Mehdi,
but in light of Unity.. i disagree with this notion.. in order for Unity to come about we must have tollorance and love... rules help a little.. but mostly tollorance.. even more Love...
Thats all very good, and in the big general picture I would agree with you, but I would like to know if you have a limits of tolerance to keep the general peace?!? For example, let's put you in a situation where there is a forum and there are certain rules of conduct...people complain to you constantly regarding one particular character who does not abide by the rules and makes life hell on the forum, what will you do? (This is not to say that you might make a forum with no rules and general anarchy would be king but for the sake of discussion)...I just want to know your point of view regarding what should be done and what it's strengths and weaknesses are as opposed to the methods being currently utilised. Not general big picture stuff but how you would deal with this particular situation (two members as of yet banned within your knowledge).
the notions of "love or leave it"... are stupid.. and do not work! .. when are we as human beings going to learn there is NO WHERE TO RUN! our world is shrinking by the second.. and the Quranic notions of moving are true.. but we must remember... Everywhere you go... you take yourself with you... .. meaning.. if you are the root of your own troubles.. no matter where it is you go... you'll be right there again...
sam reason why censorship and banning do not workEr, right...being that as it is...I think you might just be taking this a bit too far. If a person creates a forum he might envision it to work a certain way, thus he makes rules for the eventual users to pay heed to, as well as by themselves try to be mature and self realising...if this doesn't work out and there are some he deems to be the source of certain unrest after looking at the evidence, he bans him...so I don't understand, is your point that the forum should try to correct their behaviour in the ways you might envision and give these dudes some kind of psychological help and support?!?
as an example.. have any of you ever had a person who you disliked for one reason or another.. and then had this person leave you in life for some reason or another.. whether you left town or they left your school, or you quit your job or they got fired.. etc. etc..
until you make peace with yourself and this person... this person will keep popping up in your life... with one face or another? perhaps it's not the person who you dislike but that portion of the person inside of you.. which brings up such conflicting sentiments... ?
Um, not really...Whenever I've disliked someone I have realised the reasons why, and dealt with them, so I'm at peace ( I make that a priority most times to work it out to the exclusion of other stuff)...but what does this have to do with the admin banning someone because of evidence that they are troublemakers and causing unrest?
this is why banning doesn't work.. if there is a pain in your own body do you ban it.. do you hide it.. or do you find the means to cure it?
just a thought on the subject.. what do you think?
See I wasn't sure, so thats why I thought I would ask...should a forum and it's admin be responsible for curing a members personal problems and/or mindset?? I don't think thats within the scope of this forum and it's admin, maybe some members would like to take this on within the rules?
I might have completely missed the point of your post because like Elena said, there are some people I have a really hard time understanding, so I'm sorry if thats the case, please let me know where I erred. Thanks!
Nadia
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Reminds one of...
211 When they are told, "Do not commit evil," they say, "But we are righteous!"
212 In fact, they are evildoers, but they do not perceive.
213 When they are told, "Believe like the people who believed," they say, "Shall we believe like the fools who believed?" In fact, it is they who are fools, but they do not know. -
Peace,
a ah a... lets stop there for a second of silence! seeing the big picture is a great thing..
ok.. lets get on with it ...
Right you are...
we're talking about a message board right?? peesh ... lets just say.. i have no problems making fun of myself..
Of yourself or other people?!?
the only one i know of is mquran.. if the second one you are talking about is DHUL_QARNAIN?! which today posted about being banned... then i have to say i do not know the details of why Dhul_Qaranain was banned... so i cannot speak of it... unless you are talking about another 2nd person.. then i only know of one.. which is the subject of this thread... mquran
so regarding your question.. i would not ban mquran .. mquran has a right to his ways and his person.. the so called strengths of this are simple Nadia..
Yes those two, I also would not have banned him. He should have received a warning. This is for his particular case. But if he was to persist like the other person (before he was banned previously), even after repeated warnings, then according to the rules the banning was justified and overly lax in coming...the ban on that person now is due the fact that, the admin wanted 'one scale to judge by' and making a final ban permanent and irrevocable... otherwise all banned should be reinstated if they want and that goes against the purpose of a final ban which should, as you know, be final. This makes sense and is just. Someone else though might see it differently, but the final decision rests with the admin.
whoever mquran is.. he has expressed himself in the way he 'knows' best or he has expressed himself in the way he 'chooses' how... mquran has done nothing but expose who he is... what is wrong with that?
Since this is a forum with rules, I would expect people to comply to the rules before using it. It's not an anarchy. People should not complain after accepting the rules of what they are using. This the the crux of the issue. It's not having a forum where you can do what you want and everything will fall into place and be therapeutic to some...
the weakness of the action of banning mquran.. is even more simple... you just might make a martyr out of a weenie .... and martyrs are worst when pushed to one side...
So thats the problem is it? The sympathy he would recieve? I disagree. By that token, people can find anything to justify their ends. And I would like you to elaborate how in this specific case you envision mq turning into something worse? (y'know general big picture stuff aside).
Nadia, Layth or whoever owns this site can do as she/he pleases.. i can only speak for myself.. and i know.. banning does nothing but create the opposite effect of what you just said above... banning is not mature nor is banning self realising.. banning is shutting up a voice.. it is a form of censorship... banning can be funny .. it can be useful.. but if if banning is 'mature' and 'self realising' to you.. then please let me sing you a song
"it's yo thang.. do whatcha gonna do... i can't tell ya.. who to sock it to..." ..
do you know that song?
No and I don't want to either Back to the points, banning on a forum does exactly what it's intended to...keep the troublemakers out of it. That is the point. My quote was
as well as by themselves try to be mature and self realising
Please explain to me how you came up with I think banning is self realising and mature?!?
Banning, once again, keeps the forum orderly...otherwise you would end up with a ghost forum where nobody wants to go to discuss, because the gangs roaming the streets are virtually accosting everyone around. You still haven't answered my question btw, but according to your statements, it seems as if you favour general anarchy?? No rules, let 'em do as they choose?
my point is much more simple Nadia...the Truth is self evident.. by letting folks be who they are.. instead of trying to force folks into who you want them to be.. there is no need for as you put it "correcting their behaviour"... the so called 'correction' (just using your own word) can/may be done by the individual him/herself.. if the person is one of understanding.. and if not.. than God helps us all..
So you do favour anarchy? Or is it faith in the general populace to maintain and police themselves? Thats pretty far off from reality if you don't mind me saying so...Thats why at the end of your quote comes God help us all...yes exactly, thats why we have limits and rules, checks and balances to maintain peace and general equilibrium, not let 'em sort themselves out. We need reminders and sometimes these need to be enforced.
because by banning the person.. you no longer have the chance to make peace.. at least on this board anyway..
Oh right, thats why eh? Well if the person is something you are fighting with inside of you (acc to your quote-
perhaps it's not the person who you dislike but that portion of the person inside of you..
you deal with yourself. If not, then display a public message for them how sorry you are and all you want is peace?? idea
- The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.
So you don't see following certain rules (of a person's forum for example which everyone of us accepted when we started using it?) to have protection and protect others, just behaviour, purifying ourselves and obeying the God and His rules of conduct anywhere in the verse?!?
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Peace Mehdi,
maybe we start from the start...
That's a shame, it might seem like you want to avoid the points in my previous post wink
so what's the problem?
The problem from your side is that banning should NOT be used at all. Whereas, my opinion is that it should be used depending on the circumstances.
are you hard of reading .. it does appear that i did say 'myself'..
No, it appears that you are 'hard of' putting yourself across clearly as this was in response to my asking you "Do you have limits of tolerance to keep the general peace ?" and your reply "I have no problems making fun of myself" /
Nadia, do you have a hard time with change? Are you opposed to change? do you feel these so called "rules" of the forum are unchangable?
what is wrong with changing policy? isn't this site called "free-minds" even with a "marketing" slogan / .. of "set yourself free" .. ?
I 'feel' that these so called "rules" are FINE as they are. If you want NO banning then take your plea up with the admin (maybe start a seperate thread about changes to the rules), maybe then they can give you reasons for why or how they would/could change or not...I do NOT think NO banning works and thus am not in support of it quite obviously.
Nadia, i did not say mquran is better or worst.. i'm saying he is who he is.. and there is nothing wrong with that.. and that is why banning him was not the right decision..
Anarchist!
Nadia, to make a "martyr" out of a "weenie" is what this thread is doing... this thread itself is a shrine to the old relic.. this thread alone is self evident of my point.. no "general big picture stuff" ... just simple direct fact... because of banning mquran.. this thread was created.. that's pretty direct and to the point..
Because of banning mq, the other weenies start to complain as to how banning does not work? The rules are archaic?!? We don't need no stinkin' rules?!? Seems like it's an opportunity for the others as well eh? wink
Nadia, who is content with mquran getting banned? are you content with mquran getting banned?
i am not content.. or am i dancing over it... i said and still say.. banning and censorship do not work!
Perhaps you would look at the context at which I said it in and which previous post I was replying to, taking my words/posts out of context can be an annoying thing wink I am content with the rules as they are, sometimes the implementation can be bettered and we all learn from our mistakes.
and then i'm like... well, that's too bad cause it's like a classic..
Doesn't seem like it to me ) I think 'thang' put me off first and then 'sock'...
if you say or want to think so.. it's yo thang .. but from what i've observed, banning on message boards mostly help in only creating sterile, one sided, and some of the most boring places on the web..
From what I've observed on this forum and some others I go to is that it causes peaceful discussion and up's quality if one can just even barely be civil...thats what it's about. Talking/discussing in a mature/professional manner, not kiddie playground bully fights...thats not why I come to this forum or the others I go to...I think there are plently of other forums that can incorporate your desire for colourful multi-hued discourse...
Nadia, i don't need you or any mod to tell me who is troubling me or not on this board.. i can handle myself.. i do not complain to layth or zenji or whoever.. if i have a problem with someone i'll deal with them direct
Good for you! Just pay attention to the rules while you're handling yourself and it'll all be good.
if you need someone to protect you.. that's your guys business.. but please never use me as an example to ban anyone... or use my name as examples of why you chose to ban someone... or use me or my name as an excuse to ban anyone!
So first you post a verse that deals with believers being protectors of each other and then you say it's 'our' business wanting to be protected? I don't think the time will come where someone might use you to ban someone else...if anything they might just ban you if the evidence is against you...is that why you might be subliminally against banning? wink
as much as i understand.. and Love you all for the notions and sentiments behind such crap.. i rather have free flow...
Then you haven't really understood 'crap' as you claim.
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The problem from your side is that banning should NOT be used at all. Whereas, my opinion is that it should be used depending on the circumstances.
Nadia, Layth or whoever owns this site can do as she/he pleases.. i can only speak for myself.. and i know.. banning does nothing but create the opposite effect of what you just said above... banning is not mature nor is banning self realising.. banning is shutting up a voice.. it is a form of censorship... banning can be funny .. it can be useful..
As if funny is even supposed to be entertained and useful to you is a mysterious word that can't be utilised in a situation where someone exceeds the rules because that would be shutting up a voice and a form of censorship...oh boy! roll
Indeed I agree with mq, it's a waste of time discussing with 'lost causes', do check out beck, better than 'yo thang'.
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i can only speak for myself..
On a public 'discussion' forum, if you speak for yourself, do you also intend on discussing the ramifications of what you speak of?
Btw, to others reading, the quotes presented by M_Mehdi should be in the correct order, tsk tsk...
are you hard of reading
No, it appears that you are 'hard of' putting yourself across clearly
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sure.. like the ramifications of how banning doesn't work?
I think it's pretty clear what the ramifications from your side are-
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It's a form of censorship.
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It's shutting up the people.
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It doesn't work.
What works?
Love and Tolerance.
Reality?
People do not police themselves generally as a rule, that is why one has rules. No matter how much Love and Tolerance one has, the other will 'sock' it to them and steal their hard earned candy. So we have rules to protect people from getting 'socked' and standing up for mutual rights... It's all about the greater good. But nooo, that doesn't work, because the 'socker' must be 'socked' by the one who they 'socked' in a Lovey and Tolerant way for it to work.
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it's not the order of the quotes.. so much as since i had to repeat myself again.. i just thought i'd quote myself instead..
are you hard of reading still or is this just so "civilized" for you still?
Maybe we both wouldn't have had have to repeat ourselves if you would have addressed the points in my previous posts? idea
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tsk.. tsk.. love.. you forgot
- funny
- useful
Once again, I don't need to entertain 'funny' and please tell me how banning is useful. Give us some examples precioussss...
actually if you look at policing.. the police usually an after the sock effect.. meaning after you get socked.. then the police show up.. so what good was the police except to give you a ticket and charge you up but not protect you..
the protection you speak of is an illusion savage...
It's quite a naive view you have. So protection is only protection if you never get 'socked'?!? Is protection not protecting the rights of someone by making rules?!? Should these rules not be enforced with consequences if transgressed? If not what is the point of these rules?!? Thats the process of protection, not just expecting someone not to get 'socked' by a 'socker', but having rules that should be followed for protection to work.
and don't forget.. all of this started.. "for the sake of this thread" .. but run with it as you like.. like i said.. it's your thing
So? You started it "for the sake of this thread", so why not discuss it? Is it really 'my thang'? Did you not start it to have your opinion heard? Did you expect not to debate it??! If so let me know.
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Hi Mehdi,
Nobody comes here to shout or hear abuses from each other.
We come here to increase our understanding of issues, exchange ideas and views. And to do that a peaceful, free, just, environment has to be maintained.And by respect, I meant the respect that u feel towards even a stranger becoz u see him as a human like u. Or would u stamp and abuse one coz u dont know him? Get my point? We all need to respect each other and behave in a mature responsible manner. No one is superior over another.
We can live without rules, if each one of us acts responsibly and righteously. Rules only come into play when people dont act responsibly themselves.And as for dealing with abuses by ourselves, I personally am not interested to participate in disrespecting another for they dont share my view or opinion. As humans with brains, we are bound to have differences in views. And for people who disrespect me coz I dont share thier view, I would rather have them correct their wrong ways , than getting involved in a catfight with them.
And for others who do take care of themselves, these Catfights go on and on, for pages and pages, which in my understanding, is not what this forum is for.And as for the policing analogy that u mentioned, the police may come into the picture after the incident occurs but yet by punishing the individual for the 'act', they makes sure to give across the message, that ''wrong actions'' wont be entertained, and thus prevents further ones by not just that person but by others too.
Peace!
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salam mehdi,
please point out your points in a clear manor.. it will be my pleasure to answer them for you..
I have pointed out my points in a clear 'manor', I can also point them out to you in clear 'baronies' if you wish...
saying things like "so that's the problem is it?" is not clear..
To point it out to you in a clear manor (of which I'm not lord of), It's a sentence thats telling you, "is that the problem you have with people being made martyrs? The sympathy that they would get" which is evidenced by the thread you pointed out to in your quote-
Nadia, to make a "martyr" out of a "weenie" is what this thread is doing... this thread itself is a shrine to the old relic.. this thread alone is self evident of my point.. no "general big picture stuff" ... just simple direct fact... because of banning mquran.. this thread was created.. that's pretty direct and to the point..
So I would say you got it pretty loud and clear.
i am very much enjoying our discussion.. esp. since it appears to be getting into policing.. i've never thought of myself as an Anrachist.. so your assesment of me in such a way makes this even more intresting for me as to where this conversation is going..
Based on you saying that rules help a little but banning should not be enforced, begs the question, so what should be enforced? As, if consequences are not enforced, then the rules are just pretty lines that are quite boring and dry reading material that no one is going to pay heed to...I still haven't recieved an answer to this, what is an alternative that will realistically work. Love and Tolerance does not cut it my friend.
insha-Allah let me know.. it's now 210am in san diego and i have to be at work in a few hours... so unless this discussion is going to save the world tonight and prevent me from having to show up at work .. can we continue this later.. if you like.. maybe you can start a new thread on this.. and we'll discuss this in your way of civilized and respectful manor..
Of course, as long as you want to continue it constructively, you can continue discussing it in my way of 'civilized/respectful' manor or we can choose your way of 'civilized/respectful' barony as long as you keep it within the rules. I like being protected from anarchistic thugs
ok.. just a thought for you.. why don't 'you' need to entertain my point of view that banning is a funny thing to do?
Because it's not relevant to what we are discussing (Does banning work if the rules are transgressed)-
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It's a form of censorship.
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It's shutting up the people.
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It doesn't work.
I say banning is useful in enforcing rules that have been transgressed (in a forum), and you say it's not a good idea in that situation ,yet you tell me of how banning can be used as it's a funny thing to do? /
not very respectful nor civilized of you Nadia.. you know? this is not how to communicate.. because i can simply say the same things about your points of view and our conversation will come to a halt very quickly this way.. if you and yours are going to accuse me of not being to discuss or what not.. please be aware of your own short comings in communications...
Coming from you thats quite amazing...
as much as i understand.. and Love you all for the notions and sentiments behind such crap.. i rather have free flow...
are you hard of reading
Nadia, i recognize a loss cause in arguments when i see one
are you hard of reading still or is this just so "civilized" for you still?
oh.. i'm sorry you didn't appreciate this or that.. who cares..
look Tay.. i told you (guys) all long time ago...
i'm not here for you to appreciate what i do.. i could seriously care less...
If the latter quote is what you still believe (just remembered some of your previous statements on the tai chi thread), then maybe it's best to let it go?
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SALAAM,
I will not write anything in this forum until MQuran can post again.
Better you ban nerds like Jaxal.
Maria
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salaam majidah
I will not write anything in this forum until MQuran can post again.
O fcourse you are free to do this. I was not aware there was a compulsion to write.
Better you ban nerds like Jaxal.
I see you have been to same school for manners as mquran and friends.
regards -
Peace be upon you all,
Peace everyone PEACE.
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Salaam Kyle,
Yes I agree that we should uphold PEACE!!!!!!
Peace sis Maria
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Hi Mehdi,
I have participated in debates/discussions on issues/topics and not over a person. so wouldnt call that a catfight
haven't i seen you in at a catfight before? -)
Peace!
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but again.. if you wish for us to repeat ourselves.. i am not one to ignore another....
so what's the problem again?
I have explained it previously.
i don't have a "problem" (problem is you own word.. not mine) with people being made into anything! let them be who they want...
the weakness of the action of banning mquran.. is even more simple... you just might make a martyr out of a weenie .... and martyrs are worst when pushed to one side...
it does not do any harm or good to me... savage_carrot .. my position the discussion is much more simple... if you let folks be who they are.. they, you, me, we, us, them whoever... expose ourselves for who we are.. like you are doing to yourself now in this disucssion...
Nice choice of words.
but as an example if you were to be banned before i got up in the morning.. i would never be able to fully understand your point of view.. and although i may still never understand where you're coming from... at least i have a chance... because if you were to be banned... you simply would not be here to discuss any of this further...
One signs up and accepts the rules, they follow it or the consequences get enforced...want a change in the rules seriously? Use a more effective method to petition the powers that be. In the vast majority of cases the person has an ample amount of time to 'expose' himself (your choice of words), like you have been doing since you joined...
it's very simple.. savage_carrot.. did the action of banning mquran create this whole thread? yes/no
to make a "martyr" out of a "weenie" is what this thread is doing... this thread itself is a shrine to the old relic.. this thread alone is self evident of my point.. no "general big picture stuff" ... just simple direct fact... because of banning mquran.. this thread was created.. that's pretty direct and to the point..
You seem to think its a weakness. Is it not good to discuss stuff out in the open? All kinds and types of views regarding whatever happens on the forum?
i don't have a "problem" (again this a word 'you' are putting on me) with martyrs or sympathy etc... that is your point of view .. not mine... i simply see the action of banning a member creating the opposite effect.. simply because that action creates threads like this!
if you can answer this question.. you have your own answer savage... did the action of banning mquran create this thread? yes or no?
Once again you're the one who sees it as a weakness. This thread is not a weakness, it is giving people the chance to give their opinions about what happened. Whether some think it a weakness for a 'weenie' being made into a 'martyr' is really their 'problem' indeed.
how about personal responsibilty! that's something worth enforcing!
personal responsibility is a good start! this is one of my points of folks hiding behind names like "KGB" calling others idiots... what does this person care... she/he is not responsible for anything they say or do... so it's easy to call others idiots when you are not held personally responsible for your actions...
Do you care when you call people weenies and start threads to 'expose' them? Or when you post their PM's (personal messages) for people to read publically? When you 'careless' what they think?!? Do you think because you use a 'real' name it makes it better somehow than what KGB does? To an objective observer it doesn't, but then it's all about what makes you happy right? lol
still i deal with it... we have to deal with it.. and i understand.. this is why when i signed on.. i signed on as myself.. and never have sign on under anything else! .. this is because i am responsible for myself.. and thus my own conscience is clear.. and i am responsible for what i say.. after all.. Allah will hold me responsible at the end anyway! so why hide it now?
I hope we are all more responsible of our statements than we've been in the past wink
but all this doesn't mean.. you have to agree with me.. with what i say or what i do.. but at least.. my own conscience is clear that i can stand behind my own words.. and not hide behind a pseudoname..
People are responsible on this forum using pseudonames as well. It depends on the person, not the fact that they use their real names.
so personal responsibility is something we may want to consider enforcing a bit more to bring about the peace you are talking about..
Once again, that is something only YOU can enforce and there are people who do NOT do that...In this forum alone there are some that claim all the virtues of personal responsibility but fall shy of actually enforcing them by themselves. Thats the point. Thats why the rules are there, to pick up where they couldn't.
Love and Tolerance do not cut it in your own personal life or on the board? please clarify..
It's quite obvious what I'm referring to.
savage_carrot.. you don't have to agree with me.. what "cuts" it for you may not "cut" it for me.. i find Love and Tolerance cut it for me on a daily basis.. on this board.. and in "real life" aswell...
Thank you for running away with a simple concept. People can't police themselves, thus they need rules. These rules need to be enforced for people to take heed. I am talking about a forum if it's not really obvious.
so i'm sorry if Love and Tolerance doesn't cut it "for you" my friend.. i suggest you give it a chance.. and be more patient... with yourself, me and others around.. be they ones who follow rules or not.. we are all in 'it' together.. in one way or another...
You missed the point once again, look above. Btw, Love and Tolerance should be more than labels tacked at the end of a post wink
like banning you for min. last night so i could at least get an extra hour of sleep .. i joke i joke.... see.. it's funny to me so it's funny ... also it migth have been funny to ban you last night just to see your face cause i usually find most folks don't like the taste of their own medicine.. and since you so for banning folks.. it would be funny to get your reaction of being banned...
Yes I saw that in this thread. Quite an experience for someone claiming Love and Tolerance. Since you 'so' for not banning folks, I think it's because you are afraid you can't follow the rules, and all the stuff you say and have said. It was funny to get your reaction on this thread as it is.
thanks! i still stand by what i said.. and yeah.. i'm still not here to try and "impress" you or anybody else for that matter... it's not my problem if you and yours can't handle that...
Yeah thats what I thought. Hopefully all of us will be more responsible with what we say and how we say it.