What does 'islam' mean to you?
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Peace be upon you all,
I do agree with what Anwar (progod) said, but I just went along with the question asked. Many people will have different subjective ideas about whgat it means, but when we get down to the truth of the matter, th eonly thing that matters is what the word really means in the language of the reading(quran). Not necessarilly the arabic language because a lot of it has been corrupted to fit the made up religious meanings.
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Peace,
Thanks for agreeing Idolfree. But I will never agree with this
the only thing that matters is what the word really means in the language of the reading(quran). Not necessarilly the arabic language because a lot of it has been corrupted to fit the made up religious meanings.
That is just not true and goes against logic.
There is no such language as the language of the Koran. Never has been and never will be. The Koran is only written in the Arabic language. The made up religious meanings can be easily picked out by looking at a few good dictionaries that focus on linguistic sources. Trying to guess so called "Koranic meanings" is to do the same thing that those early scholars that made up things did. You're just using a different strategy
You become the new lying scholars to save the day and replace the old lying ones. If you want to have the right to do what they did then go ahead. Just know that that is just as wrong as it has always been.
But you don't have to listen to what I'm saying. And I'm sure you won't, so I don't have to worry about anything.
Godbless,
ProGod -
I know the question in not about the meaning of the word Islam which is to submit totally to Allah, however this is exactly how I feel and amazingly this feeling only became evident after I reached 40 years old, i found it very amazing but it is true
peace
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Peace be upon you ProGod,
No, I do agree with you, but only to an extent. We can get to the basics of a word, like "kitaab" being book, but never will the dictionaries lead us to the meaning of Universal Law. This meaning is obtained only by pondering and reflecting. And with words like "hajja",many get caught up on pilgrimmage, which in no way refelcts the usage of that word in this reading.
But I respect your understandings and will agree to disaree on th epoints we cant agree on.
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my salaam,nice topic.first of all for me islam can meen many things,knowing that islam means submission,so any one can be in submission to practically anything without even realising it (money,desires,women,blindy following....etc)Islam is simple but it can also open the door to many temptations without even knowing that we are falling to a trap.The God gave us the ability to choose so therefore we can shape that islam to practically anything we want.Therefore the real islam to me is the way that someone can focuse his or her mind into submitting to The God by obeying only The God,by thinking only about The Gog thru out his or her entire life,this is what i think.(so please correct me if i`m wrong),may The God increase me in knowledge.May peace be with you all.
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islam since joining this forum has meant a very peaceful life. i've long since stopped worrying over hadith or the need to defend my quran alone beliefs. it's just been a very peaceful last few years; praise to Allah.
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Idolfree,
Thanks for the response. The Koran may talk about universal law, but kitaab will never mean that on its own. As for hajja, yeah it can mean 'to reason with someone" (not debate in the sense of baseless arguing) but it can also mean pilgrimage, and that meaning can't be taken away. I believe that the Koran means 'pilgrimage' in most places where it uses the word hajj (not all places) and a physical place of pilgrimage is implied by the Koran. But I know your a mystic, and I know that you will not agree with what I'm saying. So really, I just responded to you because your responded to me. I know when it comes to us it will be nothing but a petty 'tick for tack.' Why? Because ignorance invents its own knowledge when it can't or doesn't want to know better.
Waiting for you 'tack',
Godbless,
ProGod -
Being a non religious type (though extremely spiritual) my honest answer would be that islam means the same to me as any other religion. Taking what I and seemingly most people, see as the obvious way in which to live your life and adding a bunch of laws and punishments, the ultimate reward of heaven and punishment of hell. It is a way to SCARE people into civility.
That being said, I think any religion can be a good stepping stone or guide towards a good path, if used as such and not used as instructions without possibility for waivering.
I think the creator IS at the bone of all religions and that they are all based on the desire of the creator. Perhaps he sent many sons to live among man and teach by EXAMPLE not rule, but ultimately it is up to us to use our greatest gift (free will) to get the most out of life and even more importantly GIVE the most of our life as possible
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Peace be upon you Sawtooth,
Being a non religious type (though extremely spiritual)
Me too. D
This proclamation(quran) states that the peaceful(al muslimeen) should have nothing to do with SECTS(religion/color of skin/etc).
(6159) Surely those who separated (divided) their order, and were groups/parties(sects) , you are not from them in a thing, but their matter/affair (is) to The God, then He informs them with what they were making/doing.
my honest answer would be that islam means the same to me as any other religion. Taking what I and seemingly most people, see as the obvious way in which to live your life and adding a bunch of laws and punishments, the ultimate reward of heaven and punishment of hell. It is a way to SCARE people into civility.
That would be contradictory to the statements of Peace being our nature, and never despairing. The "garden" and the "fire" are metaphors , not literal places you go to to get punished and rewarded. We punish and reward ourselves by going against or going with LAW that the God put in place. The strongest being the unifying force of life, the same force that has us here discussing this, the same force holding objects together, like our cells, and planets.
The effect you are getting is the years of literal interpretation that has plagued all behavior shaping systems. Re-ligion is the tying back of the person with the God, then we move to a place where those seperate groups come together, spirituality. This is where we start to deal with the spirit(nafs), start breaking it down and making it objective. When things remain subjective we cant agree (hot vs. cold) but when we make it objective (40 degrees), we must agree.
That being said, I think any religion can be a good stepping stone or guide towards a good path, if used as such and not used as instructions without possibility for waivering.
I agree.
I think the creator IS at the bone of all religions and that they are all based on the desire of the creator. Perhaps he sent many sons to live among man and teach by EXAMPLE not rule, but ultimately it is up to us to use our greatest gift (free will) to get the most out of life and even more importantly GIVE the most of our life as possible
I agree. My understanding is that our true identity is consciousness, and willing is what consciousness does, but there is another part of us, the spirit(nafs), which people call the soul, etc. It is the part of us that carries things out. The God creates in pairs, everything has a "yin" and "yang" side to it to. We have to understand that individuals (indivisable-duality) are two parts that complement each other, like day and night, they cannot be divided (when does day and end night begin?), but they are a duality (opposite ends of the ONE).
So we have consciousness that looks out on Spirit(energy/matter) and the job is for the consciousness to WILL the energy/matter to carry out what it wills. This was (and still is) metaphorized as "male" (consciousness/will) and "female" (energy/matter) to show an important thing, you can always WILL something (I want to stop eating the wrong food/stop smoking) but your Spirit(nafs/energy/matter) doesnt always carry that out. Thats because the consiousness has no divisions, it is all of the God(unity), blown(wind/breath) into mankind. The same air that is in your body is the same air in mine, we both enjoy the same SUN, etc. But the Spirit(nafs) has been divided, and is therefore under the LAWS of Energy/matter. Consciousness wills energy into matter. Our thoughts are very powerful, they submit to the intellect of man, except one of course.
The comparison to male and female is that the male can always give his seed, but the famale cannot always except the seed. And this is the same with the Spirit(energy/matter). It is time conditioned. Like the sun(always giving) and the moon(receptive and cyclical). Thats why the phases of the moon are means of telling certian times.
I am probably off topic by now so I will stop.
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This is where we start to deal with the spirit(nafs), start breaking it down and making it objective.
Are spirit logical?
Regards,
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Basically, I supose I believe that the creator sent teachers to different places at different times to lead poeple in times of need, not realizing that man would use his free will to take this information and use it as justification for hurting his fellow man. The words and wisdom sent by the creator, I believe are meant for our own individual need and not to be used in ANY way to inflict our personal interpretation onto others. I suppose this is why, in most cases, I will not begrudge anyone their faith. (that is until they either use it to tell my I am headed to hell or try to convert me into their image of what is right)
Anyway, it's still early for me ( kind of, I have been doing all kinds of Christmas things this morning and I am shot already) so I don't think I am quite making my myself clear, but it's close enough for now
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Hi idolfree1,
The "garden" and the "fire" are metaphors , not literal places you go to to get punished and rewarded. We punish and reward ourselves by going against or going with LAW that the God put in place.
Honestly, ur understanding amazes me. )
Would like ur view on the following
Is ' day of judgement ' a metaphor too?
And r u implying God will not raise all beings to life one day, and have our deeds read out and judge us at all?Peace!
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Peace be upon you Lote Tree,
idolfree1 wrote
This is where we start to deal with the spirit(nafs), start breaking it down and making it objective.Are spirit logical?
Yes, when you break it down. Take it out of the subjective. When we start to discuss bio kenetic energy. There is a whole science of acupuncture that deals with this. Next time you touch some metal and shock yourself, you get objective evidence. Next time you put a microscope on a cell, you get objective evidence.
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Peace be upon you Sawtooth,
try to convert me into their image of what is right)
Thats the beauty sawtooth of objective evidence, no one has to convert anyone, we just show the evidence, and each can accept or reject. I can show two people who are arguing light vs dark that it is 6pm, there is no rrom for argument of the MEASUREMENT, we use SIGHT, not HEARING to measure. So we use KNOWING vs BELIEF as a rule.
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SaLaM idolfree
Next time you touch some metal and shock yourself, you get objective evidence.
The only evidence you gather then is that dont walk on carpet bare footed. Wear some slippers. If the day of judgement was a metaphore, then God would have said it JUST the way it is. Quran is clear. Unless God is telling us that yea the Day of Judgement is a metaphore. But its not.