The hidden ones (al jinn)
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Peace Kyle, Joe,
Thank you for your reply.
Shayteen(emotions/beleifs) are thoughts with energy behind them, and they belong to the hidden ones(jinn), so we cannot see them, but they see us.
Could you elaborate the last sentence, why we cannot see them and they see us?
One can see with the eye or the heart (2246)
For me shayateen from the human and the hidden beings are the promoters of the evil.
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Peace be upon you Marie,
idolfree" wrote
Shayteen(emotions/beleifs) are thoughts with energy behind them, and they belong to the hidden ones(jinn), so we cannot see them, but they see us.Could you elaborate the last sentence, why we cannot see them and they see us?
The story is set up as the hidden(jinn) vs. the visable(insaan?)
One can see with the eye or the heart (2246)
Seeing with the heart does not mean literal vision, it deals with making ABSTRACT connections. It is the INABILITY of most people to make abstract connections that causes all this seperation based on outward appearances. Literal seeing is done with the eyes, and we cannot see our thoughts.
For me shayateen from the human and the hidden beings are the promoters of the evil.
Yes, the emotions within manifest outwardly to wicked actions, both promotes evil.
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Peace be upon you,
I had to add one aspect, There are two levels of thought, one is THOUGHT DRIFT, where thoughts just come and go and man tends to entertain these unaware. This is the human who is SLEEP (dead).
Then there is the ability to take control of thoughts, that is REASONING.
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peace idolfree1,
you wroteThe hidden ones (al jinn) refer to the inner world of the human. The human is comprised of the hidden(jinn) and the seen(physical body).
The hidden ones(jinn) can best be described as THOUGHTS, the hidden component to BEING.
please explain
1850-Behold! We said to the angels "Bow down to Adam" they bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrongdoers!
5156-I have only created jinns and men that they may serve Me.
5533-O ye assembly of Jinns and men! if it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!
thanks. -
Peace be upon you Agentxxx,
please explain
Certainly. Please verify these explanations in your own life experience.
Keep in mind the following
jinn=hidden forces
malaika= controlled forces(at peace)
shayteen= progeny of iblis- uncontrolled forces (emotions)
adam= man's intellect, can be right, can be wrong, always right when guided by God's Word.1850-Behold! We said to the angels "Bow down to Adam" they bowed down except Iblis. He was one of the Jinns and he broke the Command of his Lord. Will ye then take him and his progeny as protectors rather than Me? And they are enemies to you! Evil would be the exchange for the wrongdoers!
The command was given to the controlled forces to prostrate(hear and obey) to the intellect of man. They all did except "iblis" (desperation?). "iblis" is one of the hidden forces. His progeny are the emotions(shayteen). Will you run by emotions rather than by being at peace? Uncontrolled rather than controlled?
5156-I have only created jinns and men that they may serve Me.
The God created the hidden and visable forces to serve Him. Our being is created from the visable and hidden. Your thoughts(hidden) and actions(visable) should be in line with the God's will.
5533-O ye assembly of Jinns and men! if it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth pass ye! not without authority shall ye be able to pass!
O you Assembly of hidden and visable... (I am not sure what the zones are, I GUESS they are levels of knowledge, not sure yet)
I want to draw your attention to the following, ONENESS is he key. We must be WHOLEISTIC. It is by differentiating that we cause so many problems. Adam was given the garden(whole) but dont go near THAT TREE(differentiation of the whole). In the same manner, ALL of the malaika prostrated(WHOLENESS), except Iblis(differentiation).
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Peace be upon you all,
No other responses to this?
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peace be upon you idolfree1,
i have a few questions
question 1 why does God personify a thought by calling it Satan?and what is the meaning of "prostating" toward humans?
question 2 although I support the theory of symbolism in the Quran, why would God put symbols. Why call thoughts "jinn"?
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Peace Kyle,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts bro. I'm following your line of thinking so far, except where Iblis = Desperation. In my reading, pride/ego/rebellious-desire (ala Dr. Shabbir Ahmed) still seems to make the most sense and fit in every instance.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace be upon you Pheonix1,
i have a few questions
question 1 why does God personify a thought by calling it Satan?
Because when we take a teaching and personify it into a story that brings up a Visual Image, it is easier to remember. And rememebring is CRUCIAL at the crossroads of life when we need to REMEMBER. This is why all teachings are given to us as stories. This is why the ancients of Kamit(Egypt), used Hieroglyphics (pictures). Pictures and metaphors are recieved by the Right brain, which is the unifying side. The Left side is the segrative side. When you learn things in a step by step fashion, it goes to the left brain. We need to get the right brain working! Thatis why there is so much "right hand" "right-eousness" being talked about.
Anyway, ths is why the God personifies not just shayteen, but many things.
and what is the meaning of "prostating" toward humans?
To prostrate is to "hear and obey". Our hidden thoughts must "hear and obey" Adam. Adam is human intellect, not mankind itself.
IN our minds, there are thoughts and visions that come and go all the time, this is thought drift. We have to learn how to eliminate this thought drift and start to ORDER these thoughts, which is called reasoning.
When we leave our hidden thoughts to just drift, we accept some of them as our own and this can lead us off the path.
question 2 although I support the theory of symbolism in the Quran, why would God put symbols. Why call thoughts "jinn"?
The God is not NAMING them 'Jinn', the God is describing them as "hidden".
and your analysis sound a lot like Buddhism.
When we remove the literal stories and get to the heart of all "religions", it will sound like Most of them. Truth is present in most of them, but they have been distorted by those who take the symbolism literally
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Peace be upon you Tay,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts bro. I'm following your line of thinking so far, except where Iblis = Desperation. In my reading, pride/ego/rebellious-desire (ala Dr. Shabbir Ahmed) still seems to make the most sense and fit in every instance.
I am not against that translation. I do not stand 100% on "desperation". Lets get the root word out and its meaning and see if we can nail this down. Whatever we come up with, I still agree the IMPLICATION is the Ego.
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Peace Kyle
Iblis is from alif-ba-lam-siin. I found no translation for it. It is recognized as a name of Satan.
Ba Lam Siin - Of desperate character. Despairing, and silent respecting what is in his mind by reason of grief or fear. Give up hope; broken and mournful; was/became silent, returning no reply by reason of grief or despair. Confounded or perplexed and unable to see the right course. Cut short in argument.
Joe
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Peace be upon you Joe,
Thanks.
To think out loud......We are dealing with the OPPOSITE of PEACE. Iblis must stand for a mind state that is confused, perplexed, and therefore feels desperate.
When one is relaxed, at peace, then there is no feeling of desperation.
The progeny of a perplexed, confused , desperate mind is EMOTION(shayteen).
Not sure what the direct translation of "iblis" should be yet.
Please share all understandings.
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Peace be upon you Pheonix1,
But what i'm still confused about is why God would tell Satan to obey Adam
Where did God tell "iblis" to follow "adam"? God told "adam" to follow God not "iblis". And the malaika were told to prostrate to "adam".
instead of telling Adam to control Satan?
"iblis" is a mindset, it is the shayteen that are the emotions manifest from "iblis".
We dont control emotions with intellect(adam), we use intellect to program the proper thoughts, which form the right images in our minds, so we can be at peace, and then the emotions will work for us, not against us.
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Peace be upon you,
I guess i'll have to get my stories straight. I thought satan was one of the maliaka.
You are correct, all of the malaika were told to prostrate (hear and obey) to Adam (mans intellect/verbal thinking). They all did except "iblis".
Its a story to explain that uncontrolled thought drift will lead you astray. We must remain AWAKE to what we think/affrim to our spirit(nafs), remain in control. When we ORDER uncontrolled thoughts by REASONING, taking control of our thoughts and accepting only the ones that are in line with TRUTH, then we succeed.