evolution!
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peace phoenix1,
phoenix1 wrote
second of all, the only reason you don't like the theory of evolution (regardless of whether it is flawed or not) is because it doesn't agree with your interpretation of a book. If the quran said "Darwin is God," you would believe it.
how would you imply the fact that i would at least accept the theory of evolution if the quran was a book written by charles darwin himself?(the theory itself doesn't make total sense to me is the reason why i accept part of it and reject part of it)...in fact, most scientists doubt the existence of this theory
the reasons why i reject the theory of evolution are
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just like science has no explanation for "the process of descending of first being of adam and eve", similarly, assuming the evolution theory is true, no explanation for "the descending of first primate-apelike creature". and that's where the puzzle is, since if we assume from the readings of the quran that god SImply CREATED the first being then EVOLVED us that would rather make a lot more sense... the theory of evolution is nowhere near what i have just stated.
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most people, who embrace the theory of evolution are mainly ATHEISTS themselves... i am sorry, but that is an educated hypothesis which i believe to be true.
technically, since the members of this forum question the authority of the quran, then i guess we are pretty much closer to atheists(agnostic)... i highly doubt that it will have a big impact on our life anyway... because your deeds and your decisions are based on your character, which is partly based on what you believe .if you are firm to what you believe then it really doesn't matter whether you are christian or evolutionists or not; nonetheless, the purpose of religion is limited! the purpose of success in life is free for all humans!
peace, rifat
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technically, since the members of this forum question the authority of the quran, then i guess we are pretty much closer to atheists(agnostic)... i highly doubt that it will have a big impact on our life anyway... because your deeds and your decisions are based on your character, which is partly based on what you believe .if you are firm to what you believe then it really doesn't matter whether you are christian or evolutionists or not; nonetheless, the purpose of religion is limited! the purpose of success in life is free for all humans!
peace, rifat
Hello Humble,
This actually the reason that sometimes I become a little provocated. That if free-minds would be quran only thinking and having conflict over ahadith then it would be less arguable. But here this has become the den of all the hippy people who just not only want to run from sunnah (in case of quran only) but also want to run from the quranic devinity.That is why I think that this forum has opened so many "thief doors" for the "Munafiqeen" (non-muslims pretending to be muslims). This is evident because, when there "Munafiqeen" even in the age of prophet then one can think this age is much more violating among muslims, so certainly there must be more munafiqeens and more people of astray.
According to my context, if a person says that he will only believe in the book and not ahadith due to the fact that some ahadith narrated are rediculous, then I object on it. But what can I say about a person who even starts rejecting some parts of Quran.
People keep saying rubbish and crap about fake theories without the proper reference, and all people are appretiating here (even the person is totally on astray) but when some sunni will just try to give some qurani reference about ahadith etc. then every person already is a "Mufti" to reject that in a sudden.
Sincerely,
VirtualEye -
nopeace to you "berealisticeye",
THE REASON NO PEACE TO YOU IS BECAUSE YOU ARE CALLING ALL OF US HYPOCRITES! DEFINE HYPOCRITE ONE WHO CONCEALS THE TRUTH WHILE ENGULFING IT IN THEIR 'CHESTS'. DO YOU THINK WE ARE NOT HONEST WITH OURSELVES? MOST PEOPLE WHO COME TO THIS SITE ARE TOTALLY HONEST ABOUT THEMSELVES(INCLUDING MYSELF). IS THAT YOUR DEFINITION OF "MUNAFIQUN"? SURELY, GOD'S CURSE BE UPON THE LIARS AND REJECTERS... DO YOU NOT THINK?
TATA, RIFAT
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nopeace to you "berealisticeye",
THE REASON NO PEACE TO YOU IS BECAUSE YOU ARE CALLING ALL OF US HYPOCRITES! DEFINE HYPOCRITE ONE WHO CONCEALS THE TRUTH WHILE ENGULFING IT IN THEIR 'CHESTS'. DO YOU THINK WE ARE NOT HONEST WITH OURSELVES? MOST PEOPLE WHO COME TO THIS SITE ARE TOTALLY HONEST ABOUT THEMSELVES(INCLUDING MYSELF). IS THAT YOUR DEFINITION OF "MUNAFIQUN"? SURELY, GOD'S CURSE BE UPON THE LIARS AND REJECTERS... DO YOU NOT THINK?
TATA, RIFAT
Oh, on fire ? Calm down.
I think you took my comments offensive for you.
I meant to say that there is difference in the opinion of honest people at "quran only" and honest people at "sunni". There are differing according to there understandings and misunderstaings. But what about those people who are getting the shelter of this conflict and even rejecting Quranic verses and some even say solar system and evolution are proved against the quranic verses.
You got my point?
oh, and peace on you (if you are honest).
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peace to you to virtualeye,
i see what you are saying. you see, REAL hypocrites are not visible to the typical eye at this society... i apologize for "slapping your face" as a result of misunderstanding... i think the best we could do is remain open, and rememer, if there is a volcano inside (either be me, you,or anyone else's) chest someday he will reveal it and we can then see who the real hypocrite is.. but if that person repents then know that god is forgiver, merciful.
this is my example of a hypocrite "surely those who conceal what we have sent down to them of the clarity and the guidance, after we had made it clear for the people in the scripture; these will be cursed by GOD and be cursed by those who curse"(2159)
i am being honest about this to the best of my knowledge .
peace, rifat
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peace phoenix1,
likewise, i typed these keywords in google "islam supports evolution" and here's what i came up with
http//www.islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?cat_id=29&sub_cat_id=792
what i like about this website is that they are moderate, open-minded and willing to compromise islam for life!
Allah also says O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you with Allah is the one who is the most God-fearing.
The Prophet (peace be upon him) identified the "male" mentioned in this verse as being Adam. He said Human beings are the children of Adam and Adam was created from Earth. Allah says O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honorable of you with Allah is the one who is the most God-fearing.
We also see that Allah created Adam directly without the agency of parents.
Allah says The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him Be and he was.
We also know that Eve was created from Adam without the agency of parents.
In the Qur?n, Allah states clearly O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women.
Therefore, the Qur?n tells us that Adam and his wife were the father and mother of all human beings living on the Earth today. We know about this by way of direct revelation from Allah.
phoenix1, at school, you told me that there's no such thing as 'eve' in the quran. ??? ??? ???
The direct creation of Adam (peace be upon him) can neither be confirmed nor denied by science in any way. This is because the creation of Adam (peace be upon him) was a unique and singular historical event. It is a matter of the Unseen and something that science does not have the power to confirm or deny. As a matter of the Unseen, we believe it because Allah informs us about it. We say the same for the miracles mentioned in the Qur?n. Miraculous events, by their very nature, do not conform to scientific laws and their occurrence can neither be confirmed nor denied by science.
this interpretation compromises with the verses of the quran ).
peace, rifat
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peace all
The quran mentions Adam and "his companion". It doesnt mention anyone called "desire".
If im wrong please correct me. But it won't change my point. And my point is that the quran contains allegorical passages.
You want to know why people rely on the hadith and scholars and traditions and ignore the quran? Because the quran makes NO sense. It useless. Utterly, utterly useless. Why? because most people take the quran LITERALLY. When you do take these things literally, and believe that mountains are actual pillars and the universe is actually geocentric, and that there are beings called angels and jinns that no one has any proof of ever seeing. If you believe all that, then nothing makes sense. Nothing is verifiable, and the quran becomes contradictory (by telling us to verify and then giving us unbelievably stupid stories that make no sense). And most importantly, the MESSAGE, the LESSON, is lost.
Also, the only reason, Rifat, that evolution doesn't make sense to you is becuase of your interpretation of the quran's story of Adam. You think that because science cannot explain that, science is wrong. -
peace all
The quran mentions Adam and "his companion". It doesnt mention anyone called "desire".
If im wrong please correct me. But it won't change my point. And my point is that the quran contains allegorical passages.
You want to know why people rely on the hadith and scholars and traditions and ignore the quran? Because the quran makes NO sense. It useless. Utterly, utterly useless. Why? because most people take the quran LITERALLY. When you do take these things literally, and believe that mountains are actual pillars and the universe is actually geocentric, and that there are beings called angels and jinns that no one has any proof of ever seeing. If you believe all that, then nothing makes sense. Nothing is verifiable, and the quran becomes contradictory (by telling us to verify and then giving us unbelievably stupid stories that make no sense). And most importantly, the MESSAGE, the LESSON, is lost.
Also, the only reason, Rifat, that evolution doesn't make sense to you is becuase of your interpretation of the quran's story of Adam. You think that because science cannot explain that, science is wrong.Phoenix,
You not only seem to be a non-muslim but the enemy of Islam.
We muslims have been told to not to abuse other religions in front of the people related to those religions.But I dont what is that worm which does not let you calm down. You keep in abusing quran. If you stupid intelligence cant understand the morals of the incidents narrated in quran then please shutup and to to some trinity site to utter your rubbish.
You better stay here if and only if you have respect for quran.
And who the hell told you that people who follow Ahadith, they deny quran? and they follow something against quran?
The only conflict between quran only and sunni muslims is that quran only muslims say that they will only follow the do's and donts of quran, while sunni muslims say they needed some explanation in the form of ahadith to better understand quran. But even then sunnis dont accept those ahadiths which are contrary to any quranic verse, and they have some doubts about some ahadiths which do not have reliable source or seem to be contrary to quranic teachings. So the only conflict is that "If we need something additional to understand quran better or not".Now were are you dropped from in this forum, to abuse quran and trying to prove everything with science.
When you do take these things literally, and believe that mountains are actual pillars and the universe is actually geocentric, and that there are beings called angels and jinns that no one has any proof of ever seeing.
Have you seen God through science? then why do you belive? if you dont believe then you are an atheist.
Now about mountains to be pillars, I think your scientific knowledge is very very small and stupid knowledge is huge. It has been prooven through geological science that earth below the mountains is several hundred kilomers more deeper downward to the innner core of earth, on the other hands the non-mountainerian area is much less think.
Now about Jinns, you have not seen jinns right? How about soul? you have not seen. I you believe in the existence of soul(which nobody have seen) then you cant just deny existence of jinns through your reasonings.
Contrary to this, If you do not believe in soul then tell me why a human being which was scientifically same body is just considered to be dead in the next moment. That is the same so called evolutionized body through millions of years(as your belief, not mine) but after death the same body is not working. How come? Did it kept evolving through million years even if uncomplete and suddenly stopped working even if it was totally complete in its complexity?To add more,,,if you belive to be the human evolved from some ape as darwin, then you better abuse yourself to be son of some ape or dog or whatever you like. But you dont have the right to abuse us. Keep your thinking and apply to yourself.
And most importantly, the MESSAGE, the LESSON, is lost.
Which message you need?
This was the demand of Mushriks in the age or prophet also,,,, they used to ask from prophet if you are a prophet then why there are not angles with you and why did not you suddenly fly towards sky and bring some book etc.
They were also trying to prove everything from their science.Now despite the facts which I have described about you, try to understand my reasoning also... and you can only disagree if you have some "in born hatered for Islam in your mind".
Sincerely,
Muhammad Usman. -
Now about mountains to be pillars, I think your scientific knowledge is very very small and stupid knowledge is huge. It has been prooven through geological science that earth below the mountains is several hundred kilomers more deeper downward to the innner core of earth, on the other hands the non-mountainerian area is much less think.
peace virtualeye,
by saying that, you proved my point. If you take the 'mountains being pillars' part literally, then it makes no sense. Everyone knows what pillars look like and the mountains don't look like pillars to anyone. So that means that maybe the quran is using the word "pillar" a bit differently. Although this is probably not the best example, you can see that there are deeper meanings to the things in the quran when we look. If we do take things literally, then they sometimes make no sense.
Take for example all those miracles mentioned in the quran. You believe them because you have "faith" in the quran. But to someone who hasn't read the quran, and isn't a muslim, they are stupid stories.
Furthermore, using the scientific method mentioned in the quran, you can never prove these stories to be true. So is that a contradiction??
It would be if the quran ever claimed that these stories are true. But i don't think it does.
So it doesn't matter where these stories took place and who they involved as long as we get the message it is trying to convey. And that message can only be seen if we look for symbols and the deeper meaning.
Hope you are getting my point, and agreeing with me because these are just simple facts based on logic. -
As for my position on the quran, i am in no way against it. It is a great book (just as it claims to be).
In The Da Vinci Code, someone (Langdon i think) says " the bible wasn't sent from God by fax."
The same is true for the quran. It is a man made book. Inspired by God (who is everywhere), but still man made. It has a few too many flaws (and they might not be flaws at all but for now that's what i know) to be directly 'dictated' by God.
I don't believe God talks in words, let alone arabic. God talks to us through nature, through our conscience. Without those two things, the quran is nothing. We can live a good life without any scripture telling us what to do. But the quran makes it easy for us by teaching us a few things about life. We must take them, and move on. It's a great book. I have respect for it and it's teachings, i just cannot accept the fact (atleast not yet) that it is from God. God doesn't give us a book, he gives us this world and means to study it. We must use those means (our senses and our mind) to find the truth.
So what exactly is the quran?
i believe it is the thoughts of Muhammad. Either written down by him or his followers. The Quran is the Hadith of the prophet. It is his interpretation of this world.Right now, this is what i think i know. It wasn't too long ago that i started this thread, so i'm still 16, still a junior in high school. I've got a lot to do. You know, do homework, study for tests, get good grades, go to college, get a job, get married, etc etc. I have (hopefully) my whole life ahead of me.
So maybe i am mistaken on some points. I know some of my thoughts are inaccurate (although not wrong). This is what i know based on whatever time i have after i'm done with worrying about all those things i have to worry about. So maybe when i'm retired (early of course) i can devote most of my time doing research and meditating on this subject. Then maybe i'll have the answer. Right now, i think i'm on the right track, but i havn't figured it our yet. -
Now about mountains to be pillars, I think your scientific knowledge is very very small and stupid knowledge is huge. It has been prooven through geological science that earth below the mountains is several hundred kilomers more deeper downward to the innner core of earth, on the other hands the non-mountainerian area is much less think.
peace virtualeye,
by saying that, you proved my point. If you take the 'mountains being pillars' part literally, then it makes no sense. Everyone knows what pillars look like and the mountains don't look like pillars to anyone. So that means that maybe the quran is using the word "pillar" a bit differently. Although this is probably not the best example, you can see that there are deeper meanings to the things in the quran when we look. If we do take things literally, then they sometimes make no sense.
Take for example all those miracles mentioned in the quran. You believe them because you have "faith" in the quran. But to someone who hasn't read the quran, and isn't a muslim, they are stupid stories.
Furthermore, using the scientific method mentioned in the quran, you can never prove these stories to be true. So is that a contradiction??
It would be if the quran ever claimed that these stories are true. But i don't think it does.
So it doesn't matter where these stories took place and who they involved as long as we get the message it is trying to convey. And that message can only be seen if we look for symbols and the deeper meaning.
Hope you are getting my point, and agreeing with me because these are just simple facts based on logic.You used the word pillars so I expalined that. Infact in arabic its something different,, which means something like "anchors" or something like peg. ( I am not very good in English vocabulary, but I know in my language). There are some nails used to hold the tents (now you might know what is that nail called).
And also, if somebody needs the evidence why the Quran is word of god then I am here to provide , but I cant guarantee to some obnoxious person to accept that, because it depends upon the blessing of our Creator that somebody understands or remains at astray.
Now if you leave the stories part which you say you cant approve. There are evidences which are proven by your science and scientists are stunned to see (no matter some convert to Islam and some remain same, but they accept that it must be revealed by God, otherwise no human could write these predictions without the revelation of God).
You are very fast in claiming that this book is written by man. We give a lot of evidences to prove this book the word of God. But what evidence do you have to prove it a human creation? just calling that it contains stupid storied?
Calling stories to be stupid or not may be conflict between believers and non-blievers. But where is your science to disprove the facts which we say these are predicitons coming true after 1400 years?
And try to point out where do you see stupidity in stories, instead of making yourself compulsory for the curse of God.
One more thing, if you believe that Quran is word of some human, then where is the real word of God? Are you atheist?
Did the God create whole billions of complexities and then forgot to reveal his word?These are the first verses of our Holy book for the people like you
001.001
001.001 In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.002.001
002.001 Alif, Lam, Mim.002.002
002.002 This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah;002.003
002.003 Who believe in the Unseen, are steadfast in prayer, and spend out of what We have provided for them;002.004
002.004 And who believe in the Revelation sent to thee, and sent before thy time, and (in their hearts) have the assurance of the Hereafter.002.005
002.005 They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper.002.006
002.006 As to those who reject Faith, it is the same to them whether thou warn them or do not warn them; they will not believe.002.007
002.007 Allah hath set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their eyes is a veil; great is the penalty they (incur).002.008
002.008 Of the people there are some who say "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.002.009
002.009 Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!002.010
002.010 In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).002.011
002.011 When it is said to them "Make not mischief on the earth," they say "Why, we only Want to make peace!"002.012
002.012 Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.002.013
002.013 When it is said to them "Believe as the others believe" They say "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.Al-Qur'an, 002.001-013 (Al-Baqara )
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Right now, this is what i think i know. It wasn't too long ago that i started this thread, so i'm still 16, still a junior in high school. I've got a lot to do. You know, do homework, study for tests, get good grades, go to college, get a job, get married, etc etc. I have (hopefully) my whole life ahead of me.
So maybe i am mistaken on some points. I know some of my thoughts are inaccurate (although not wrong). This is what i know based on whatever time i have after i'm done with worrying about all those things i have to worry about. So maybe when i'm retired (early of course) i can devote most of my time doing research and meditating on this subject. Then maybe i'll have the answer. Right now, i think i'm on the right track, but i havn't figured it our yet.This is the only positive point you gave, that you are not yet so mature in understanding and hope that you maybe more mature in thinking in future. So let be happening, till then dont disgrace anything which you believe to be wrong. Its better to stay neutral if you dont know enough about something or are suspicious, instaed of calling out the words wich may never return afterwards.
I was considerting you to be some aged person in his 20s or 30s, so I took it more solid. But since you are a teen yet, so I can guess that you will learn more in future.
Just keep in mind that there are dozens of scientists who found a lot of quranic predictions to be true in current age, but still all did not embrace Islam. So its not very new that you study quran and say this this and this good and still I dont believe.
Before giving your opinions on this book. Please take some time to have a look at this presentation in detail
http//www.harunyahya.com/presentation/miraclesofthequran/index.html
Then you are MOST welcome if you have questions. I will be happy to collect the answers of them. But please dont simply say the word like "stupid" about the book.
This is same as if you intensely love your parents and I say your parents are good but they are stupid (while you are sure that they are not stupid). Certainly you will be heart. Will you?.... So consider our position to be much more than that, because we do not only love our Holy book and God but we adore it.I hope you understand.
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Peace,
God mentions in the Quran, mankind was created from clay. I remembered one of my DNA-classes, during my Biochemistry study. Our teacher showed that the most accepted theory is, that after the forming of the first bigger carbon-molecules in water. A part of those molecules was gathered on the edges of the puddles. The substance surrounding those puddles were most likely a sort of clay-particles still found today around small ponds and lakes that resembles the early puddles were the first carbon-molecules were formed.
My teacher just said out loud;"We were made from clay..."
Only in those clay-particles is the enviroment perfect for the forming of Amino-acids, where from Dna-strings can form. There has not been found a single better explanation in Biochemistry that gives the answer how Amino-acids could have been formed, because UV-radiation destroys complex molecules in water. The clay-particles form a stable condition that takes away the UV-radiation, but still recieves the warmth from the sun to giver higher vibrations for molecules to interact. And that the carbonmolecules get mixed up with clay-particles is a logical result, being the clay surrounding the puddles, and through molecules movement (osmosis) mixing with the water and what the water contains.
The Quran confirms evolution in a precise matter, as it also does with the evolvement of an embryo, and all other scientifical facts present in the Quran. Yes, sometimes the Quran uses symbolic language, but mostly it uses direct and precise explanations of natural facts.
To me, Adam and his wife do resemble the first communities, as it uses sometimes plural forms. Also 'paradise' refers to our state of mind, not the mythological heaven of the Greek-Egyptians, that corrupted the Abrahamic faiths. We translate it with the english word heaven, which comes from the Roman-Greek Christians, while the Quran uses the word "djenna", which means the 'garden we can't see'. Gehenna, what we translate as the Greek-Roman Christian word hell, is an old valley near Jerusalem where people used to be sacrificed to their idols, so again symbolic language used. Paradise and Hell are not physical places, but states of mind, where by Paradise means following the Truth as represented here by the Quran itself and other known facts of Theology, science and history. Hell represents lies, illusions, anything that burns away truth, peace and progress of humanity. The Quran explains Djenna as progress, growth, forever bliss, as refering to the growth of understanding of Reality.
Gehenna is also explained as Jahim, which means barrier, as meaning stopping growth understanding of the truth.Jinns, comes from the root that means, something not seen. In the Quran , the word Jinn, doesn't always mean one exact thing. It depends on the verses, but mostly refer to humans that live out of sight of normal civilisation or are not directly part of it. So by the contexts it can mean, highly intelligent people, nomads, people living in jungles and so on, people who work behind the scenes in politics, emotions/ego that we don't notice and so on.
Satan, is hebrew for rebel, as also iblis comes from greek origins meaning rebel. And refers to our ego, bad/selfish desires that will destroy us and provoke us to do wrong things. Satan also became a Jinn, something we don't see, we don't notice. Most people are unaware of their desires ruling them.
The word for angel in the Quran is mailika, which means, the ones in control, the word angel is by thus a wrong translation, as this refers to the mythological creatures that originated from the Egyptians, and were by the Greeks introduced to the Christian thinking, and later on adopted in Islam. The malika in the Quran refers mostly to forces of nature, from lightning to any power or law, that 'protects' us. Also it is known in Quantum physics, that the energy field that forms matter, records/remembers anything we do or say or even think, and by thus refers to the malika that records our deeds. Also through these energy 'levels' could have the revelations been transferred.
There is not one thing in the Quran, that disagree with science, logic or reason. The only thing that disagrees is our understanding of the Quran, and the understanding that we don't translate the words and meanings correctly, but use understandings from mythology and polytheistic faiths that corrupted the monotheistic understanding.
Peace
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Peace phoenix1. I consider you to be a very intelligent,open-minded,articulate and humble poster,with great and original ideas... For your age i find you to be at 'genius' level. At 16 i wasnt even remotely as 'in the know' as you. Dont be discouraged by negative comments or accusations from certain posters...If you meditate and ponder over yourself and the world you will continue on your straight path and can develop even more. I wish you well in your life,studies etc...we need more young people like you.
Keep up the excellent work and take care. ps; you are practical proof that a few years genuine pondering of reality with ones god-given natural inner conscience, is worth more than a thousand years of literal,narrow book study. ) ) -
peace arnoldyasin,
what you have stated in your 'evolution' post will certainly help me with my research in the quran. i strongly encourage you to stay in this forum. may god bless you...
Peace,
God mentions in the Quran, mankind was created from clay. I remembered one of my DNA-classes, during my Biochemistry study. Our teacher showed that the most accepted theory is, that after the forming of the first bigger carbon-molecules in water. A part of those molecules was gathered on the edges of the puddles. The substance surrounding those puddles were most likely a sort of clay-particles still found today around small ponds and lakes that resembles the early puddles were the first carbon-molecules were formed.
My teacher just said out loud;"We were made from clay..."
Only in those clay-particles is the enviroment perfect for the forming of Amino-acids, where from Dna-strings can form. There has not been found a single better explanation in Biochemistry that gives the answer how Amino-acids could have been formed, because UV-radiation destroys complex molecules in water. The clay-particles form a stable condition that takes away the UV-radiation, but still recieves the warmth from the sun to giver higher vibrations for molecules to interact. And that the carbonmolecules get mixed up with clay-particles is a logical result, being the clay surrounding the puddles, and through molecules movement (osmosis) mixing with the water and what the water contains.
The Quran confirms evolution in a precise matter, as it also does with the evolvement of an embryo, and all other scientifical facts present in the Quran. Yes, sometimes the Quran uses symbolic language, but mostly it uses direct and precise explanations of natural facts.
To me, Adam and his wife do resemble the first communities, as it uses sometimes plural forms. Also 'paradise' refers to our state of mind, not the mythological heaven of the Greek-Egyptians, that corrupted the Abrahamic faiths. We translate it with the english word heaven, which comes from the Roman-Greek Christians, while the Quran uses the word "djenna", which means the 'garden we can't see'. Gehenna, what we translate as the Greek-Roman Christian word hell, is an old valley near Jerusalem where people used to be sacrificed to their idols, so again symbolic language used. Paradise and Hell are not physical places, but states of mind, where by Paradise means following the Truth as represented here by the Quran itself and other known facts of Theology, science and history. Hell represents lies, illusions, anything that burns away truth, peace and progress of humanity. The Quran explains Djenna as progress, growth, forever bliss, as refering to the growth of understanding of Reality.
Gehenna is also explained as Jahim, which means barrier, as meaning stopping growth understanding of the truth.Jinns, comes from the root that means, something not seen. In the Quran , the word Jinn, doesn't always mean one exact thing. It depends on the verses, but mostly refer to humans that live out of sight of normal civilisation or are not directly part of it. So by the contexts it can mean, highly intelligent people, nomads, people living in jungles and so on, people who work behind the scenes in politics, emotions/ego that we don't notice and so on.
Satan, is hebrew for rebel, as also iblis comes from greek origins meaning rebel. And refers to our ego, bad/selfish desires that will destroy us and provoke us to do wrong things. Satan also became a Jinn, something we don't see, we don't notice. Most people are unaware of their desires ruling them.
The word for angel in the Quran is mailika, which means, the ones in control, the word angel is by thus a wrong translation, as this refers to the mythological creatures that originated from the Egyptians, and were by the Greeks introduced to the Christian thinking, and later on adopted in Islam. The malika in the Quran refers mostly to forces of nature, from lightning to any power or law, that 'protects' us. Also it is known in Quantum physics, that the energy field that forms matter, records/remembers anything we do or say or even think, and by thus refers to the malika that records our deeds. Also through these energy 'levels' could have the revelations been transferred.
There is not one thing in the Quran, that disagree with science, logic or reason. The only thing that disagrees is our understanding of the Quran, and the understanding that we don't translate the words and meanings correctly, but use understandings from mythology and polytheistic faiths that corrupted the monotheistic understanding.
Peace
does the same principal apply to our understanding of salat? judgement day? the ant story? the ayat 37 did not make much sense before but now it does )
"he is the one who sent down to you the scripture, from which there are governing verses; they are the essence of the scripture; anad others which are similar. as for those who have disease in their hearts, they will follow what is similar from it seeking to confuse, and seeking to derive an interpretation. but none know its interpretation except GOD and those who are well founded in knowledge, they say "we believe in it, all is from our lord." and none will remember except the people of understanding." (3
to tell you the truth, because everyone interprets the quran literally, 'hidden' misconceptions are among all of us at this forum(that's why i have stated the sunni ideology could supercede this forum ideology ) in my previous post).
peace, rifat
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peace phoenix1,
you are absolutely correct! i refused to accept this theory because from my interpretations of the quran and sunnism, it does not match! by the way, i bought the book "the origin of species" by charles darwin for extra-curricular study on this topic.
i simply accept all the evolutionary facts... they are true and no doubt concerning the examples we have today(scientific evidence). because the debate between the evolutionists and the creationists(muslim and christian fundamentalists) are both so strong(equally matched) i just simply cannot accept the theory... this theory does not answer ALL the necessary questions;nonetheless, i accept part of it because it explains the laws of life in general of existent species.
i was asked some of the questions concerning evolution though
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this theory does not explain why different races are in existence among us.
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simply, the theory does not explain how creation began on earth.
peace, rifat
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Salaam, mr. Humble.
Thank you, for your comment.
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does the same principal apply to our understanding of salat? judgement day? the ant story? the ayat 37 did not make much sense before but now it does.Salat=contact. It depends on the context of the verse what it means. So it can mean, keeping contact with God, through prayer and reading Quran AND especially through following the Quran, by applying its laws in our society and life. Next to that does salat refer to contact with fellow acceptors of Reality.
And in some verses, it applies to prayer as well and following the Quran. So by my opinion, there are 2 prayers in the Quran, 1 gathering of fellow thinkers(salat al-jummah) and for the rest its refers to following the Quran and reading it.Judgement day, is the day you die, and get confronted with the truth, but you will not understand what is happening if you live in your own made illusion(gehenna=destroyer of logic,truth,peace,reason), because your understanding is blocked(jahim=barrier), but you will know that something is not right, you will know your trapped, and in this way you will be brought into the next creation, and you will not escape your illusion, as long as God wants to, but this law applies as well in this life as the next. Sometimes the afterlife, refers to tommorrow/the future and/or the next life, which is also proven by science to be true. Judgement day is when our conciousness(nafs=Self) will return to a state where it will see the truth, and it will understand the truths we need to grow further. I'm still working on how exactly the Quran explains it, so give me a bit time on this. See the link for the scientific explanation on resurrection
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=5417.0
I'm trying to put together all these things i told here, in one article, so Godwilling in time i get it finished.
And the story of the ants and the bird is simple if people would have looked a bit further. Since words have more then one meaning it is interresting what people choose sometimes, and have a distorted idea of a meaning. The arabic naml, means ants, BUT was also the name of a tribe in Syria, even ibn Kathir who is so wrong on 80% of his explanations on the Quran, has this one right. In his tafseer, he indentifies, namlat, the lady of Naml, as belonging to the tribe of Banu Shisan. So it is the tribe that was scared of Solomon's army, which is logical. Also on the story of the 'bird' that comes in the verses after that, the arabic word hud-hud, means hoopoe, BUT again was also the name of a South Yemen tribe, and men were often named after their tribes as well as birds. Tair is commocly used for birds, but is also applied to winged beings, yet tayyar means fleet-flooted horse, and at-tairan is methaphorically used for marching to jihad. When Solomon says that they had been thaught the language of tair, he uses the word mantiq which is used for HUMAN speech, and man alone of all created beings is called haivani-natiq, speaking animal, the language of birds is called saut. The intention behind the use of tair, as of jinn cannot be disregarded. The Tair were a conquered tribe or race and David and Solomon had knowledge of their language. Similarly jinns applies here to the nomadic tribes many of whom were recruited by the king of Tyre for Solomon, see the Bible, chapter Kings 1,5. Hud-hud here is significant because it is known in old records that it was the name of a prince of Midian in the days of Solomon, and some records say he was even the brother of the queen of Sheba. It was by the hand of Hud-hud that brought the letter to Sheba, and he was the one who brought the throne to Solomon, here we have to understand that in the Quran, all the thrones mentioned is used symbolic, as with the Throne of God, meaning the Power of God, same is here, where Solomon was brought knowledge about the 'power', or as to say how her goverment, how her power was in her kingdom. This is also with the throne of Yousouf, where he put his parents on, they were honered by living in luxery through Yousouf's power in Egypt, and they bowed for him, meaning out of respect.
The Quran contains no nonsense or contradictions, and never goes against logic or science. So if you doubt something just ask...
And about the book origins of species, bring it back to the store. It is outdated like hell. I can recommend for you better books, like from Micheal Behe's Intelligent Design, and Bill Bryson's A Short History of Everything. Darwin's book was good 150 years ago, but we have moved on much further. I don't always have time to write lenghty replies, so pleas msn me.
Here is one of the professors in Biochemistry
DONALD E. INGBER, who holds B.A., M.A., M.Phil., M.D. and Ph.D. degrees from Yale University, is an associate professor of pathology at Harvard Medical School and a research associate in the departments of surgery and pathology at Children's Hospital in Boston.And his short words in a long article
Researchers now think biological evolution began in layers of clay, rather than in the primordial sea. Interestingly, clay is itself a porous network of atoms arranged geodesically within octahedral and tetrahedral forms. But because these octahedra and tetrahedra are not closely packed, they retain the ability to move and slide relative to one another. This flexibility apparently allows clay to catalyze many chemical reactions, including ones that may have produced the first molecular building blocks of organic life.
And i have a lot more on this subject from Dutch scientists.
Peace
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this theory does not answer ALL the necessary questions;nonetheless, i accept part of it because it explains the laws of life in general of existent species.
i was asked some of the questions concerning evolution though
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this theory does not explain why different races are in existence among us.
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simply, the theory does not explain how creation began on earth.
You saw the theory and believed it immediately no matter it is said by darwin. Now that is your faith.
When quran says something the people bring out thousand doubts and objections.
To these kind of ugly thinkers Hazrat Darwin must be prophet but sayings prophet can not be accepted because that will be idolism. While accepting "THEORIES" of their Hazrat Darwin is acceptable and is not idolism.nice.
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peace all,
i think some of you have misunderstood my position on the quran. Again, i don't think, by any means, that the quran is stupid. It is a great book.
What i said was that some stories in the quran, when taken literally, appear to make no sense. It is not until we look for a deeper meaning that they start to make sense to us and we learn from them. That's what i meant.
The quran is a great book, we've seen enough proof of that, but what i can't prove right now is that it came directly from God. I don't know that (but i am leaning away from that understanding).
What i do know is that God's True message is not any book, but it is this world. His creation, Himself.
The only reason the quran, or any book, makes sense to us is because we can put it against this creation and verify what it says. But what comes first is this world. Not what some book says.
Just think. What if some people destroyed every copy of the quran on this planet. Mankind will be lost, right?
wrong.Virtualeye, this universe, and it's laws are God's message. The quran is based upon those laws.
And enquirer, thanks for the kind words. Whatever i am it's because of the help and encouragement i get from people like you. So thanks for that too.
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peace arnoldyasin,
thanks for the link.
The quran says that everything was made from water!
that's true isn't it?
The quran is an amazing book.
That still doesn't change my position, though.
I think Muhammad reached a state of enlightenment only few can. He was a prophet. What he preached to others what he discovered. Just like Jesus had done before him.