the reading(quran) is not the title of any book
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Salam "el-aziz",
Now you tell me about what a man cannot produce that the Koran has...
JK- A superhuman mathematical structure. Bro Bahman was an atheist. Math structure of Quran turned him into a believer. Hes ready to give up Quran if anyone can challenge this http//www.submission.org/challenge.html . Until now no one has done so including great mathematicians. Bro Bahman has shown other interesting interlocks of the Quran to mathematicians on which they were amazed. his personal site is www.y19.net GOD Bless!
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Once again you have failed to declare the nature of this supposed challenge?
it seems that you are the one who failed to understand it
i suggest you forget it then, or possibly find someone else to explain it to you better than me
I have not claimed no authorship to no ?qurishi? by saying that the Koran is written in the dialect that modern linguists refer to as Quraishi Arabic. The reason they say that and not ?Arabic? is that they are not consistent.
ok who is not consistant?, Qurishsi Arabic?, and where did you manage to find some writings written in their accent? i never seen any myself
The texts that were written by Swedish King Gustav Vasa in the 16th century were written in Swedish indeed, but NOT the one that modern people refer to as ?Svenska? even though grammar and many words are the same. So they are separated by a new name to the elder dialect. The mere fact about modern Arabic and Koranic Arabic not being the same remains, regardless what we call the latter. Period.
ok, but the Quran Arabic is superior to the modern Arabic. Period.
About this thing that the work presented has to come fro a knowledgeable person, you haven?t clarified what it means.
not to worry bro, just forget it or find another person to talk you through it again
I?m not very amazed that a native arab speaker refers to the Koran (being one of the greatest among legacies of culture and literature in the Arab world) as ?stunning?.
yeh you are right, I'm very biased to my native language wink
no wonder many non arabic speaking muslims told me they feel jealous of native arabic speaking muslims lol
However, you have not been able to prove that ?a chapter like it? refers to ?a chapter as stunning as one of the Koran?.
well do i have to prove anything to anyone but me?
And ?stunning?, in case you haven?t noticed, is a very subjective word.
you mean relative word?
And I haven?t either figured out what?s so stunning about it.
that is normal as a non arabic speaker lol
Personally, I think of the language structure of the Koran is quite poor compared to other Semitic texts. But once again, that is a very subjective thing, don?t you agree?
agree on it as being subjective? no I don't I agree on it being but I will agree that it is relative based on the differences between humans like a solid arabic speaker, a novice arabic speaker and a non arabic speaker
The Quran is the perfect and direct words of our God and by you saying it is poor, it seems you are taking Iblis and his progny as protectors, good luck to you
for me the direct words of our God must be perfect and unmatchable regardless of any langugae used
peace
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Peace be upon you Zsrin,
Idolfree you know what.. I really need some meditation...Its hard to make people to think "outside the box"....
D We all need meditation. My advice to you is to rememebr that PEACE is our natural state of being. Dont waste your time tryin to convince anyone who does not want to look at something different. It will cause you to get emotional , which is "succumbing to the snake in the garden" to use an old metaphor.
Take a step back and read the several pages that have gone by so far, then you will realize that its probably time to say "Peace", and move on to another thread for a while.
And that said easier said than done , trust me, I know D
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Peace Zsrin,
If anyone think my understanding of "ego" is wrong..Please point out with facts...
The Arabic word "hawa" more closely means "fantasy" as opposed to "ego". For example, in 533 we hear the following
- And he doesn't talk from the "hawa".
Clearly, "hawa" here is in contrast to "truth" not "humbleness". So the passage is saying that he is speaking from the truth NOT from "humbleness".
This is further confirmed a few lines down in 5323 where following "what the selves fantasize" is used in contrast to following the guidance from the Lord.
As for the subject of this thread, it is abundantly clear from the great reading that the word "quran" is not a proper name. For example, it is a fact that The God Himself uses the word "quran" as a common noun. For example, He uses it to denote other readings in 1015, 1331, and 1788. It is used for another reading that people desire in 1015. It is used for another reading that can move mountains in 1331. It is used for another reading that is made by the humans and the "jinn" in 1788.
Moreover, there are many instances where the pointing device "this/hatha" is used to indicate this "quran"/reading (see 1037, 123, 179, 1789, 5677, etc.). Anyone who really knows anything about Arabic grammar knows that such devices are not used with proper names.
The expression "quran al-fajr" in 1778 makes it absolutely clear that the reading is a common noun describing the action of "reading at dawn".
017.078
YUSUFALI Establish regular prayers - at the sun's decline till the darkness of the night, and the morning prayer and reading for the prayer and reading in the morning carry their testimony.
PICKTHAL Establish worship at the going down of the sun until the dark of night, and (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn. Lo! (the recital of) the Qur'an at dawn is ever witnessed.
SHAKIR Keep up prayer from the declining of the sun till the darkness of the night and the morning recitation; surely the morning recitation is witnessed.
KHALIFA You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.Notice that out of the above translations, Shakir is the most correct translation. Pickthal and Khalifa had to insert the action (recital or reciting) in parenthesis because "the Quran at dawn" is meaningless nonsense. Yusufali correctly translated "quran" as reading but for some reason inserted the word "prayer", which doesn't occur in the passage.
The above is abundantly clear to anyone who can read but not to people who read through the dogma that they were spoon fed as children and fantasize that modern Arabic (or more accurately modern Egyptian colloquial Arabic) is the same as the Arabic of the great reading.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace
Those who suffer from an overwhelming ego are so ignorant to the fact that Reading means "Qira'aa" not "Quran"
well, Ignorance is a blyss as the old man said
The verse posted above should be translated as "The dawn Quran", ie the Quran that is read at dawn while most humans are asleep
what makes me laugh at those is this
IT IS BLOODY OBVIOUS FOR A CHILD THAT ANY BOOK IS FOR READING NOT FOR PLAYING HIDE AND SEEK NOR FOR COOKING, SO NAMING IT READING IS LIKE CALLING THE KETTLE BLACK lol lol
Peace
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Peace Ahmed,
Being that English is not your native language, the fact that "reading" is both a verb and a noun may have slipped past you. So, in this case, your argument does not work.
Peace,
Tayhttp//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=reading
read?ing ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rdng)
n.
The act or activity of one that reads.
The act or practice of rendering aloud written or printed matter skilled at forensic reading.
An official or public recitation of written material the reading of a will; a reading by the poet of her own works.The specific form of a particular passage in a text an unusual reading of the old manuscript.
The distinctive interpretation of a work of performing art given by the person or persons performing it.
A personal interpretation or appraisal He gave us his reading of the situation.
Written or printed material.
The information indicated by a gauge or graduated instrument. -
Peace Ahmed,
Being that English is not your native language, the fact that "reading" is both a verb and a noun may have slipped past you. So, in this case, your argument does not work.
Peace,
Tayhttp//dictionary.reference.com/search?q=reading
read?ing ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rdng)
n.
The act or activity of one that reads.
The act or practice of rendering aloud written or printed matter skilled at forensic reading.
An official or public recitation of written material the reading of a will; a reading by the poet of her own works.The specific form of a particular passage in a text an unusual reading of the old manuscript.
The distinctive interpretation of a work of performing art given by the person or persons performing it.
A personal interpretation or appraisal He gave us his reading of the situation.
Written or printed material.
The information indicated by a gauge or graduated instrument.excuse me Tay, as I said I care less about what you post from english dictionaries, I will only care if I want to know the meaning of an english word
now what we have in hand is this
we want the meaning of the arabic word "Quran", not the english word reading lol
and Quran has one meaning in the arabic world not your english world, it means one thing only and it is the name of the scripture, like the Injil, Taorah and Zaboor
you and your team can work hard trying to twist it to make it mean reading but you will fail because reading means Qita'aa, not Quran
now for your silly argument that reading is a verb and a noun, who cares bro?, certainly not me, we are not talking english here regarding the Arabic word "Quran", which is a name like your name Tay and my name Ahmed
it is so silly to name a book "reading" in fact this idea suits well a stand up comedian session lol , and this is a sarcastic comment btw
Peace
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Peace Ahmed,
we want the meaning of the arabic word "Quran", not the english word reading lol
OK. But we are discussing this in English, are we not? Therefore, what the gentlemen in this debate are arguing is what the ARABIC word "qur'an" means in ENGLISH.
According to 1778, three different translators agree that "qur'an" means "reading/recital", and 3 others have included "recital" in their tafseer.
What does that tell you, that they're all comedians?
you and your team can work hard trying to twist it to make it mean reading but you will fail because reading means Qita'aa, not Quran
There you go making assumptions again. I've not taken any stance in this debate. I'm just pointing out one aspect of it that you seem to have overlooked.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Ahmed,
we want the meaning of the arabic word "Quran", not the english word reading lol
OK. But we are discussing this in English, are we not? Therefore, what the gentlemen in this debate are arguing is what the ARABIC word "qur'an" means in ENGLISH.
According to 1778, three different translators agree that "qur'an" means "reading/recital", and 3 others have included "recital" in their tafseer.
What does that tell you, that they're all comedians?
you and your team can work hard trying to twist it to make it mean reading but you will fail because reading means Qita'aa, not Quran
There you go making assumptions again. I've not taken any stance in this debate. I'm just pointing out one aspect of it that you seem to have overlooked.
Peace,
TayPeace tay
first of all, all these 3 translators commites many silly errors allover the verses, therefore theie crappy translations mean one thing for me which is, they lacked Arabic 100% lol
For my wrong assumption, sorry to assume that
peace