SALAT :FOR THE ATTENTION OF LAYTH.
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WakasI just felt the 'taboo' was referring to a prior event, thus should be taken out of the equation.
I hear you on that but I think we need to find another equational statement just to be sure.
I see your point, and that seems reasonable but I think this is where you perhaps missed my subtle point, it is not 'damage to your deen' it is 'damage in your deen'.
Right, once again I hear you. Ad-deen does manifest in structural form in some way.
Nice reference with 10104, that is pretty much a direct answer to the question "what is 'deen'?".
I owe Izutsu for that one. His 'Semantics of the Koranic Weltanschaung'
I'm not questioning your understanding of 'deen', what I'm saying is they are not "assailiing" your deen. They are "assailing" in your deen.
Perhaps 'committting assailment' , just to make it sound more palatable to the ears?
If someone causes trouble/damage in your 'deen', then this clearly shows it is an activity that is being done in your 'deen', i.e. it is not a belief, it is not a set of beliefs, it is something tangible/physical, something present in the real-world. To me, this for example weakens the traditional understanding of 'deen' as 'religion'. For proof of this, it is no coincidence traditional translators omit the "fee/in" in their translations because they are using "deen = religion" and I guess they figured this doesn't sound right.
Well, if 'aslama' works on a 'wajh' level (3/20) and our deen is al-islaam, then our deen must work on a wajh or expressive level as well. The 'ta3anoo' chaps must be doing something discernible.
I think you may be right with "atw zkw" being a good contrast to "t3n dyn".
So iqamus-salaat must be establishing our aymaan and ahd? We need to find more of these equations in order to be sure.
I had a look at 381. That is interesting, as I never checked the Arabic to see if "al" was there or not. I know from experience al-quran is precise in its word usage thus if its not there, its for a reason.
Gee thanks Wakas but I sort of realised that
Come on, just fire away. Why do you feel there's no 'al' there? Help me out here, man.
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peace mq,
they were given of book/decree/prescript and wisdom. This makes sense in the context. It seems to indicate they were given a fraction of the pool. You dig?
So iqamus-salaat must be establishing our aymaan and ahd? We need to find more of these equations in order to be sure.
Bro, I just thought, this slw that was being upheld/established was in context, i.e. its specific to the bond/oath that the mushrikeen took. This is an explicit reference to what "iqamus-salaat" is!
Thus, all we need to ask ourselves is what bond/oath is upon us! What is the context for us.
Wakas
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Wakasthey were given of book/decree/prescript and wisdom. This makes sense in the context. It seems to indicate they were given a fraction of the pool. You dig?
I dig but the issue's not dug, I'm afraid. A principle I employ for my tafseer is that when al-quraan uses a certain phrase to say a certain thing, it won't use another phrase to mean exactly the same thing. This is why it's 'kitaaban mutashabihan mathany' (39/23). I'm sure you recall phrases like
"naseeban min al-kitaab/portion of the book"3/81 has no
- taifan /section (of the book)
- fariqan / division (of the book)
you get the idea, I'm sure. All it says is, 'kitab wa hikmah'. So its literally a book and wisdom. Could it be because next to Allah, nothing is absolute (thus requiring an 'al') ? I'm still at guesswork for this one.
Bro, I just thought, this slw that was being upheld/established was in context, i.e. its specific to the bond/oath that the mushrikeen took. This is an explicit reference to what "iqamus-salaat" is!
Thus, all we need to ask ourselves is what bond/oath is upon us! What is the context for us.
Right, I see your point. Perhaps 2/83-85 is the covenant? It is described as 'al-kitaab' after all and 29/45 tells us to 'follow whats revealed to us min al-kitaab and aqimu as-salaaat'.
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peace mq,
min kitabin wahikmatin
from my research thus far, min is a partitive. Since it is addressing them collectively, perhaps it is more proper to say 'given you from book and wisdom'. I dont think its logical to assume (and in my view al-quran confirms this) all prophets received an exact same book & wisdom, hence this usage.
Perhaps 2/83-85 is the covenant? It is described as 'al-kitaab' after all and 29/45 tells us to 'follow whats revealed to us min al-kitaab and aqimu as-salaaat'.
I wasn't thinking about 283-85 at all. I was thinking more along the lines of what we pledged to uphold prior to this life/test, or what is upon those who received scripture.
In 2945, isn't it "otlu/recite"? I would agree however there is a connection being made between reciting what is inspired/revealed to you from al-kitab and establishing the slw. Knowing whats in al-kitab puts one in a position to establish al-slw.At the moment, to me, the closest English word to salat is "bond". It is interesting to note though that its not exactly like this English equivalent. For example, I could say the following sentence "Sarah has a special bond with her pet cat". The word "bond" here implies a closeness in relationship/affection / connection, but does not really imply the other aspect of the Arabic word salat, and that is it inherently contains decree/prescript/law/information / code of conduct / behaviour, just like the salat/bond the mushrikeen pledged to uphold/establish. These two aspects of the word can easily be seen from the Classical Arabic meanings found in a dictionary.
Actually, perhaps the English word "bond" does, as I'm sure the special bond Sarah has with her pet cat would make her act accodringly. Perhaps this is why salat is said to deter fahsha & munkari (2945).
Also, I was thinking how in 912 "break their oaths" and "assailment" are pretty much synonymous, i.e. cant do one without the other. Thus, another contrast could be made "aqimu as-salaaat" can be opposed to 'assailment' or more generically "to cause damage".
I did a google to get a definition for "to damage" and here is what I found
the occurrence of a change for the worse
thus, its opposite would be
the occurrence of a change for the better
Does this resonate with your view of salat? It does with mine.
Wakas
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Wakasmin kitabin wahikmatin
from my research thus far, min is a partitive. Since it is addressing them collectively, perhaps it is more proper to say 'given you from book and wisdom'. I dont think its logical to assume (and in my view al-quran confirms this) all prophets received an exact same book & wisdom, hence this usage.
I think kitab and hikmah are the exact same things in their scope of what kitab and hikmah means. To me, kitab and hikmah refer to the underlying operational guide in the universe. All prophets must have recieved the same one. Only Muhammad ibn Abdullah recieved al-quraan though.
My point however wasn't this but the fact that the 'al' is missing from both words 'kitaab' and 'hikmah'. This is what I can't figure out at this point.
I wasn't thinking about 283-85 at all. I was thinking more along the lines of what we pledged to uphold prior to this life/test, or what is upon those who received scripture.
Any ayat to describe that relative to as-salaat please?
In 2945, isn't it "otlu/recite"? I would agree however there is a connection being made between reciting what is inspired/revealed to you from al-kitab and establishing the slw. Knowing whats in al-kitab puts one in a position to establish al-slw.
For me 'atlu' is rooted in 'tala', the movement of the moon relative to the sun (91/2) and when related to al-kitaab, refers to following and when related to al-quraan refers to reciting.
At the moment, to me, the closest English word to salat is "bond". It is interesting to note though that its not exactly like this English equivalent. For example, I could say the following sentence "Sarah has a special bond with her pet cat". The word "bond" here implies a closeness in relationship/affection / connection, but does not really imply the other aspect of the Arabic word salat, and that is it inherently contains decree/prescript/law/information / code of conduct / behaviour, just like the salat/bond the mushrikeen pledged to uphold/establish. These two aspects of the word can easily be seen from the Classical Arabic meanings found in a dictionary.
Actually, perhaps the English word "bond" does, as I'm sure the special bond Sarah has with her pet cat would make her act accodringly. Perhaps this is why salat is said to deter fahsha & munkari (2945).
I see how the word 'bond' conveys the meaning and agree with you, but to me, the quranic program of 'reeducation' calls for us to use the original Arabic words to govern our thoughts.
Also, I was thinking how in 912 "break their oaths" and "assailment" are pretty much synonymous, i.e. cant do one without the other. Thus, another contrast could be made "aqimu as-salaaat" can be opposed to 'assailment' or more generically "to cause damage".
Does this resonate with your view of salat? It does with mine
It does in a certain aspect and further, I'd like to add that when you lose as-salaat, you follow ash-shahawaat and this probably commits assailment in your deen as well.
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peace mq,
In 2945, isn't it "otlu/recite"? I would agree however there is a connection being made between reciting what is inspired/revealed to you from al-kitab and establishing the slw. Knowing whats in al-kitab puts one in a position to establish al-slw
.It has been an interesting contribution.
Would you pls elucidate further.
I am rather of the view that knowing what is in the Book is salat itself, a phenomenon that puts you in a position to do the actual deeds of righteousness i.e, Gods consciuosness 2014 and prevent you from sin and vice 2945.
the doing of good is not the salat in itself but the resultant effect, benefit, and consequent of salat.
When you dont read the Book or listen to its recital you loose the salat in this case you are not in the position to follow trhe Book but your shahawat 1959
This situation is also true for those who listen to its recital but do not earnestly apply their heart and mind to seek the realisation and undersdtanding of God's Will. Their salat can not be beneficial but a curse 1074-5
In 7172 the covenant being referred thereto is the covenant of al aql that anyone that grows to mental-maturity ll definately come to the realisation of Allah as the Lord of the creation, such realisation should move the individual from their traditional past to seek relation with God- relation which can only be got by relating with God's Book i.e, al salat.
I shall be happier tro listen to your views
