Crucial age of 40
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Peace be upon you Jonny K,
I am confused about your answer. Do you agree or disagree with what I said?
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JK- What makes you think that? Noah lived for 950 years according to the Quran so what made you conclude that his would be under 40? GOD Bless!
Then historic people were unlucky! We are given like half of our life to go directly to heaven (lol) and they had a waaay less chance than us.
What a pity.
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Peace be upon you Born Again,
Amazing isnt it?
We have to let this literal stuff go and get the lessons.
950 years? Come on now yawn
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Salam idolfree,
Peace be upon you,
We are going in the wrong direction.
The age of 40 being the age of strength is verified psychologically , assuming the person lives a healthy lifestyle.
The real debate is about if someone "goes to heaven" before 40 years of age. Again, the alleged criteria is that people before 40 are not responsible, but SENIOR CITIZENS are exactly the same way, so where is the MAXIMUM age of responsibility? This destroys the concept of "going to heaven" by Rashad.
JK- No theyr NOT FULLY responsible as their knowledge of the world has npt yet reached that ceratin level which GOD has set so it would be unfair if that person would go to hell BUT dont forget that paradise has DIFFERENT LEVELS/RANKS too. GOD Bless!
salam jonny_k .
their knowledge of the world declines from that certain level AFTER the age of 40 also . so if a person dies after the age of 40 , say at 43, it would still be unfair if that person would go to hell . that means that only if he dies in the 40th year , he will go to hell .thats one reason why this understanding is not correct .
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Salam idolfree,
Peace be upon you Jonny K,
I am confused about your answer. Do you agree or disagree with what I said?
JK- I dont fully agree with you. As i said if one doesnt have enough wisdom as yet and is not yet fully mature he cannot be thrown in to hell but would be subjected to lighter punishment. Thats what i meant. GOD Bless!
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Salam Saladin,
salam jonny_k .
their knowledge of the world declines from that certain level AFTER the age of 40 also . so if a person dies after the age of 40 , say at 43, it would still be unfair if that person would go to hell . that means that only if he dies in the 40th year , he will go to hell .thats one reason why this understanding is not correct .
JK. Good point but we must not forget that then the person had had the chance to repent and didnt make use of it, thus it's over and also the wisdom does NOT decline after 40 but continues to increase. Consider the following example. A person is jailed for a crime and gets a bonus that after two years a psychologist would come in to test him and if his behaviour is found appropriate he would be released. Now if he doesnt better himself on time it wont matter if he does so afterwards EVEN IF HE GETS WEAKER OR COMPLETELY INNOCENT, he would still have to suffer the consequences. Hence the saing "Repent on time!". GOD Bless!
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Peace be upon you,
We are going in the wrong direction.
The age of 40 being the age of strength is verified psychologically , assuming the person lives a healthy lifestyle.
The real debate is about if someone "goes to heaven" before 40 years of age. Again, the alleged criteria is that people before 40 are not responsible, but SENIOR CITIZENS are exactly the same way, so where is the MAXIMUM age of responsibility? This destroys the concept of "going to heaven" by Rashad.
Peace Kyle,
I think your argument is flawed.
Say we have a motorcar that gets to 400 km/h at its 'peak' and thereafter loses that ability so that it can only crawl along in its old age.
Does that mean it never reached 400 km/h?
People who get to 40 and then 'decline' into being "SENIOR CITIZENS" have had the opportunity to believe what they believe - the senescence doesn't invalidate the test they've undertaken before that.
Rashad's argument was that at 40, people have had the full opportunity to examine for themselves the 'book' (universe and its signs) and make a decision based on it.
Believing at the eleventh hour doesn't work as we know from Pharaoh's example.
Regards.
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Salam Truth,
Peace Kyle,
I think your argument is flawed.
Say we have a motorcar that gets to 400 km/h at its 'peak' and thereafter loses that ability so that it can only crawl along in its old age.
Does that mean it never reached 400 km/h?
People who get to 40 and then 'decline' into being "SENIOR CITIZENS" have had the opportunity to believe what they believe - the senescence doesn't invalidate the test they've undertaken before that.
Rashad's argument was that at 40, people have had the full opportunity to examine for themselves the 'book' (universe and its signs) and make a decision based on it.
Believing at the eleventh hour doesn't work as we know from Pharaoh's example.
Regards.
JK- Exactly! GOD Bless!
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salam saladin
we don't know noah son's age but HE is probably UNDER the age of 40 and the ayat describe him among the wicked.
Peace
good point I was actually going to post Noah's son story but you did it, thanks, also Able and Cane may also be another example of good and bad young men
I agree with whoever does not accept that 40 is the age of accountability because there is no such fact in the Quran
peace be with all
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salam saladin
we don't know noah son's age but HE is probably UNDER the age of 40 and the ayat describe him among the wicked.
Peace
good point I was actually going to post Noah's son story but you did it, thanks, also Able and Cane may also be another example of good and bad young men
I agree with whoever does not accept that 40 is the age of accountability because there is no such fact in the Quran
peace be with all
Peace,
A son is younger than the father. But if the father lives 950 years as Noah is said to have - then what is the likelihood that the son was under 40?
Here is an example that does involve a boy...
1874 So they went. When they met a young boy, he killed him. He said, "Why did you kill such an innocent person, who did not kill another person? You have committed something horrendous."
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1880 "As for the boy, his parents were good believers, and we saw that he was going to burden them with his transgression and disbelief.
What happens to the boy? Is he hell bound for his future crimes he never commits? Or is the verse saying that the boy is already a disbeliever and a rebel and was eliminated because of it?
Here is another question for contemplation...
7121 Noah said, "My Lord, they disobeyed me, and followed those who were even more corrupted when blessed with money and children.
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7125 Because of their sins they were drowned and assigned to the hellfire. They found no helpers to protect them from GOD.
"They" were assigned to hellfire. No exceptions. "They" are the people who were blessed with money and children and "they" are all drowned and made to enter the fire.
Everything has an appointed time. I can only believe that there is absolute justice for all. To conjecture who does and doesn't go to heaven based on age is immaterial.
Regards.
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salam saladin
we don't know noah son's age but HE is probably UNDER the age of 40 and the ayat describe him among the wicked.
Peace
good point I was actually going to post Noah's son story but you did it, thanks, also Able and Cane may also be another example of good and bad young men
I agree with whoever does not accept that 40 is the age of accountability because there is no such fact in the Quran
peace be with all
Peace,
Peace truth
A son is younger than the father. But if the father lives 950 years as Noah is said to have - then what is the likelihood that the son was under 40?
bloody oath a damn good point, well I guess about 500 years, LOL, sure you have a point, let's exculde noah's son then
Here is an example that does involve a boy...
1874 So they went. When they met a young boy, he killed him. He said, "Why did you kill such an innocent person, who did not kill another person? You have committed something horrendous."
.....
1880 "As for the boy, his parents were good believers, and we saw that he was going to burden them with his transgression and disbelief.
better example for sure
What happens to the boy? Is he hell bound for his future crimes he never commits? Or is the verse saying that the boy is already a disbeliever and a rebel and was eliminated because of it?
The verse does not really say he is going to hell rather he was just a bad guy, I agree
Here is another question for contemplation...
7121 Noah said, "My Lord, they disobeyed me, and followed those who were even more corrupted when blessed with money and children.
....
7125 Because of their sins they were drowned and assigned to the hellfire. They found no helpers to protect them from GOD.
"They" were assigned to hellfire. No exceptions. "They" are the people who were blessed with money and children and "they" are all drowned and made to enter the fire.
Everything has an appointed time. I can only believe that there is absolute justice for all. To conjecture who does and doesn't go to heaven based on age is immaterial.
Regards.
I agree
peace be with you bro
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Salam Saladin,
salam jonny_k .
their knowledge of the world declines from that certain level AFTER the age of 40 also . so if a person dies after the age of 40 , say at 43, it would still be unfair if that person would go to hell . that means that only if he dies in the 40th year , he will go to hell .thats one reason why this understanding is not correct .
JK. Good point but we must not forget that then the person had had the chance to repent and didnt make use of it, thus it's over and also the wisdom does NOT decline after 40 but continues to increase. ...
salam.
i quote again from the same articleIf we analyze the statement based on psychological tests conducted by scientisits, what we find is that the "overall quantity of stored knowledge in the mind of an individual reaches a peak at age thirty-nine and after that it gradually declines. Arthur C. Guyton"
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Salam saladin,
salam.
i quote again from the same articleIf we analyze the statement based on psychological tests conducted by scientisits, what we find is that the "overall quantity of stored knowledge in the mind of an individual reaches a peak at age thirty-nine and after that it gradually declines. Arthur C. Guyton"
JK- I believe wisdom and knowledge although related are not the same thing. A person's storage of knowledge may decline, yet his wisdom may increase. We usually see people at 60 or 70 wiser than those around 40 or 50. But anyways EVEN IF the wisdom did decline as well ive presented my argument for that too. Once a person gets the chance and doesnt take advantage of it, then thats his fault. GOD Bless!
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salam.
Peace be upon you Born Again,
Amazing isnt it?
We have to let this literal stuff go and get the lessons.
950 years? Come on now yawn
it is tough for God to keep a man that HE created alive for so long ? sounds impossible,huh ? HE is the one who has created and kept alive this universe for so long . is man more difficult to create than the heaven HE built ? take the lesson .Who is the One who...He is the One who...
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Peace be upon you Truth,
I think your argument is flawed.
Say we have a motorcar that gets to 400 km/h at its 'peak' and thereafter loses that ability so that it can only crawl along in its old age.
Does that mean it never reached 400 km/h?
I dont think this analogy applies. If that motorcar ran over a human being before reaching maximum speed 400 km/h , is the driver guilty? What about if that motorcar ran over a human being after it could no longer reach 400 Km/h, is the driver any less guilty?
People who get to 40 and then 'decline' into being "SENIOR CITIZENS" have had the opportunity to believe what they believe - the senescence doesn't invalidate the test they've undertaken before that.
You are missing the point, the "quran" says that the human is taken back to gray hair, KNOWING NOTHING after having known much.
(3054) The God is the One Who created you from weakness, then He made strength after the weakness, then He makes after the strength a weakness and grey hair..."
So if someone before 40 is given a free pass , lets say they shoot someone, the reason is that they are not mature enough mentally. So lets say this person after 40 lives a righteous life, but then gets old and senile and shoots someone, why would they be punished? The od person and the child are both the same in regards to responsible.
Rashad's argument was that at 40, people have had the full opportunity to examine for themselves the 'book' (universe and its signs) and make a decision based on it.
But when someone gets old and senile, how can they make a proper decision?
Believing at the eleventh hour doesn't work as we know from Pharaoh's example.
I am not talkig about believing at the 11th hour, I am talking about mental responsibility, thats what this topic is about.
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Peace be upon you Saladin,
Amazing isnt it?
We have to let this literal stuff go and get the lessons.
950 years? Come on now
it is tough for God to keep a man that HE created alive for so long ?
The God says his way never changes. Life is based on Law, humans dont live 950 years.
sounds impossible,huh ?
Yup, even LOOKS impossible. I am sure you have never seen such a thing.
HE is the one who has created and kept alive this universe for so long . is man more difficult to create than the heaven HE built ?
You can witness the universe lasting, so where is your 950 year old man?
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Salam idolfree and the other person who believes humans never lived more than around a 100 yrs,
We have to let this literal stuff go and get the lessons.
950 years? Come on now
it is tough for God to keep a man that HE created alive for so long ?
IF says
The God says his way never changes. Life is based on Law, humans dont live 950 years.JK- No it doesnt. At that time the atmospheric pressure of the earth was greater than today thus allowing more oxygen to enter easily which could greatly increase the life time. Not only Noah but all contemporary humans must have lived quite long. Your problrm is that you think that the world was always like it is today which is totally false.
IF says
Yup, even LOOKS impossible. I am sure you have never seen such a thing.JK- Not after the explanation ive given above.
You can witness the universe lasting, so where is your 950 year old man?
JK- What do you mean? Noah lived many thousands of years ago so he would obviously be dead by now. GOD Bless!
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Peace be upon you Jonny K,
Salam idolfree and the other person who believes humans never lived more than around a 100 yrs,
I did not say that. There are people alive today that we can WITNESS who are over 100 years old. So lets set the "limit" at 250 years, that should be fair enough.
IF says
The God says his way never changes. Life is based on Law, humans dont live 950 years.JK- No it doesnt. At that time the atmospheric pressure of the earth was greater than today thus allowing more oxygen to enter easily which could greatly increase the life time. Not only Noah but all contemporary humans must have lived quite long. Your problrm is that you think that the world was always like it is today which is totally false.
Could or DID? Guessing is no substitute for the truth. Further , please explain how more oxygen would lead to a person living until 950 years? Did they also have bigger lungs to hold this "extra oxygen"? Please give us more details.
IF says
Yup, even LOOKS impossible. I am sure you have never seen such a thing.JK- Not after the explanation ive given above.
I spelled LOOKS in capital leters for a reason, your "could be" logic does not SHOW us anything. Please break down the science of it. I do agree that increased oxygen intake allows us to live longer healthier lives (thats why breathing is so important to meditation), but not past the limits of the bodies we have.
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You can witness the universe lasting, so where is your 950 year old man?JK- What do you mean? Noah lived many thousands of years ago so he would obviously be dead by now.
Exactly, how convinent for the position of 950 year living men, and sticks turning into snakes, and seas splitting, none of this verifyable. There are lessons underlying these SYMBOLIC stories. They are not to be take literal on blind faith.
Blessings be upon you as well. Most importantly PEACE.
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salam.
Peace be upon you Saladin,
Amazing isnt it?
We have to let this literal stuff go and get the lessons.
950 years? Come on now
it is tough for God to keep a man that HE created alive for so long ?
The God says his way never changes.
the same God in the same book also says that Noah lived 950 years .
Life is based on Law, humans dont live 950 years.
God tells us the law in the koran , He tells us what is possible and impossible . the Koran is the criterion . what criterion do u have ? how long can humans live maximum ? . tell us . maybe u can inform us better than God !
sounds impossible,huh ?
Yup, even LOOKS impossible. I am sure you have never seen such a thing.
(1149)This is from the news of the unseen that We inspire to you. Neither did you nor your people know this, so be patient. The ending is always in favour of the righteous.
God is the knower of the unseen . HE informs us about the unseen in the Koran . Koran is a guidance for those who believe in the unseen(23) .
HE is the one who has created and kept alive this universe for so long . is man more difficult to create than the heaven HE built ?
You can witness the universe lasting, so where is your 950 year old man?
the 950 year old man is dead ,bro . and so will be dead this universe that we now witness . what after then ? because this universe will be no more , would it mean that God was not able to keep the universe running for so long . just because YOU cant witness it anymore ?
the problem in your understanding is that you think that there is nothing that is beyond your understanding , or beyond the understanding of the humans . are u the knower of everything ? or is God the all-knower ?
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