TO ALL EVOLUTIONISTS ON THE FORUM!
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Salam Sawtooth,
Do to attacks I was recieving a while back I blocked certain things from my box and have yet to figure out how to put things back to normal.
JK- You mean personal attacks? How come?
OK so are you arguing that it IS or is NOT possible that a single species can change over time to adapt to changing surrounding?
JK- It is possible what one KIND/TYPE of animal can produce a VARIETY in order to adapt to its environment e.g. Alaska rabbits and those that we know commonly. The former adapted to its environment BECAUSE IT THE CODES FOR SUCH AN ADAPTATION WRE ALREADY PRESENT IN THE GENE POOL. Thus this type of evolution known as micro evolution or variation is agreed upon by ALL CREATIONISTS AS WELL including young earth creatiionists like Dr. Kent Hovind. Theres no argument at all about that. However these variations HAVE LIMITS which cannot be trespassed like for exampl,e toc ahnge a rabbit into a cat or so over time because the genetic code required is simply not available. Likewise the code for human speech and other features we posess is simply lacking in all ape/ape like species and RK proves using probability that a haphazard/random change from ape-human is implausible and utterly impossible i.e. IT IS MATHETICALLY IMPOSSIBLE THAT AN APE/APE LIKE CREATURE CHANGE TO A HUMAN BY RANDOM CHANCE MUTATION AND NATURAL SELCTION AS THE EVOLUTIONISTS WANT US TO BELIEVE. Hope you it this time. GOD Bless!
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Salam Sawtooth,
So you don't believe a mutation can take place that because of it's benefits, is adapted into a gene pool?
JK- 1st lemme make it clear that no additional info can enter the gene pool out of thin air or by mere chance. That is unreasonable, implausible and amthematically impossible. Now RANDOM muations are not beneficial. Thats the whole point. On the other hand prgrammed mutations like a rabit adapting to different enviroments is totally possible and it happens. No one denies that. GOD Bless!
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True there are no real random mutations, unless you account for those mutations produces by toxins in the enviornment.
There are dormant genes and fluke combinations, that CAN become inheritable and if bennificial will make it into the gene pool through selective mating. Moths that produced dark wings by fluke mutation became desireable in England when the trees became darkened by coal soot. These "mutations" became desirable in mates as it acted as a perfect camoflauge. The same mutation has been seen in other areas within the same species, but did NOT enter the gene pool as it offered no bennefit. This is the most classic example of evolution. Specifically seperate evolution within the same species.
After dinner I will post a link to that specific study if you would like to read it. I know I have it somewhere.
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Salam Sawtooth,
True there are no real random mutations, unless you account for those mutations produces by toxins in the enviornment.
JK- Such muations have never been beneficial or successful. Infact countless mutation attempts on fruit flies proved the failure of such an attempt. If you disrupt the perfect genetic code as it was calculated and designed by GOD then all you get is deformed creatures like the fruit flies.
There are dormant genes and fluke combinations, that CAN become inheritable and if bennificial will make it into the gene pool through selective mating. Moths that produced dark wings by fluke mutation became desireable in England when the trees became darkened by coal soot. These "mutations" became desirable in mates as it acted as a perfect camoflauge. The same mutation has been seen in other areas within the same species, but did NOT enter the gene pool as it offered no bennefit. This is the most classic example of evolution. Specifically seperate evolution within the same species.
After dinner I will post a link to that specific study if you would like to read it. I know I have it somewhere.
JK- The moth example you gave is quite commonly used amongst ape-men evolutionists in support of their theory but it is balony. It doesnt prove macro evolution. The code for black and white was already present in the gene pool of the moths which came out at a particular time. They never got a pink or a blue one, did they? If you just wanted to show me variation within kinds then as i said everyone agrees with that. I still request you to try and view RK's clip again. GOD Bless!
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Salam Andya,
JK- Did you study the evidence based on code-19 throughly? Did you read Edip's article "Intelligent peoples guide to code-19"? Did you view the clip i mentioned above? If you didnt then please do so. 2ndly i also consider RK as anormal human. Messengers are normal humans beings like us and not some sort of super humans as traditional sunnis and shias have thougth. They come along with signs though from GOD and they deliver His Message to the people. 3rdly i chnaged my ID coz it's easier to pronounce this one as comapared to the previous one in particular for westeners and English speaking people. GOD Bless!
I don't consider code 19 as having any importance, so it is for me irrelevant within the context of evolution. About evolution, the scientific evidence itself is robust, and you yourself have repeatedly show your refusal in examining it.
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Salam Andaya Primanda,
I don't consider code 19 as having any importance, so it is for me irrelevant within the context of evolution. About evolution, the scientific evidence itself is robust, and you yourself have repeatedly show your refusal in examining it.
JK- I look at the same evidence and conclude common design, like other creationists do too, rather than common decent, which is equally possible and much more logical i believe as it is the simplest understanding. All other explanations are sorting to make simple things difficult with the agenda to make GOD's Existence obsolete. Once again i ask you to view the clip "Evolution or Creation, the final argument" at www.submissiontv.com . GOD Bless!
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jonny_K
I like the video. I got a PhD in Biochemisty and Molecular Biology, but saidly when people do not listen they do not, whatever you say. I have asked those evolutionist out there, regarding how the genome is reprogrammed, and no body has given me any reply, apart from mutations and RNA editing. Which is rubbish! I am asking again How is the DNA reprogrammed, if evolution has to take control? If by any "chance" according to evolution, some of my DNA get reprogrammed which will, say e.g. will give me another enzyme to digest plastic---how will this be passed on to my next generation?
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salaam all
What are we trying to prove or disprove regarding evolution. I am afraid I am struggling to understand the purpose here-any clarifications would be appreciated.
regards -
If by some strange chance of bizzar mutation due to enviormental factors, a person was born able to safely digest plastic and somehow get nutrition from it (very hypothestical here) that could get passed on to the next generation because that person would become desireable for mating. IF the mutation is inheritable that is. Our DNA is NOT going mutate on it's own (generaly speaking) but as we see more and more around the world, changes in the enviornment due to industry and pollution will. Recessive genes can become dominant, useless physicall aspects (IE wisdom teeth and the appendix) begin to disappear, more or less hair is evident on the body, diseases become evident or bodies become imune. I would guess that due to an even more sedientary lifestyle every year, our bodies will eventually develope faster metabolisms just as they were once likely slower to make up for lack of fats and protiens in the daily diet. Biology adapts. Slowly but surely.
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Salam Sawtooth,
If by some strange chance of bizzar mutation due to enviormental factors, a person was born able to safely digest plastic and somehow get nutrition from it (very hypothestical here) that could get passed on to the next generation because that person would become desireable for mating. IF the mutation is inheritable that is. Our DNA is NOT going mutate on it's own (generaly speaking) but as we see more and more around the world, changes in the enviornment due to industry and pollution will. Recessive genes can become dominant, useless physicall aspects (IE wisdom teeth and the appendix) begin to disappear, more or less hair is evident on the body, diseases become evident or bodies become imune. I would guess that due to an even more sedientary lifestyle every year, our bodies will eventually develope faster metabolisms just as they were once likely slower to make up for lack of fats and protiens in the daily diet. Biology adapts. Slowly but surely.
JK- First of all the kind of mutation you mentioned is never going to happen, regarding the resistance to plastic, since the DNA lacks the code to do so. Blind random chance mutations cannot succeed in making a something +ve as ive mentioned before. Moreover the appendix is NOT vestigial. This is yet another lie in the textbooks. Infact the appendix is part of the immune system which you can live without it, yes, but that would significantly increase the chances of your body getting infected. If you dont believe me just visit www.drdino.com and ask them for the relevant scientific references. Theyll provide you with them regarding this issue. Also the wisdom teeth are not useless depending on our diatery habits. However our not using them is not going to make them disappear one day. Ofcourse if the code in the DNA is disrupted then information can get lost but that would be an example of losing not gaining and wont be beneficial in the long run. GOD Bless!
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In todays societies you have two things happening. You people becoming more tolerant of disabilities and seeing the disabled accepted into society, marry and have children. This is going to start changing what shows up in gene pools as both recessive and dominant. Second you have a medical system that offeres parents chances to abort early if defects are found (sounds like they would cross each other out but they don't. You have medicine's that are causing changes on how our imune systems work and seeing changes in how each generation's genetics deal with disease. There are more and more children born without wisdom teeth and appendix's every year. The number insignifigant at the moment but evolution is not a process that one generaly can witness in a single or even a dozen lifetimes. Everything from how a body is shaped to how much hair grows on it is changing with every generation. True it is all attached to DNA but we are also in a very infantile stage of understanding DNA. Every other day you find out that there are gnes attached to all kind of things. So we are not even fully aware of what changes can still occur. I agree the ability to dogest plastic is silly, but you asked .
DNA can be changed and rearranged (from stem cells to toxins, it happens) I refuse to even consider that biology does NOT evolve to suit the enviornment, but I also am not a person who thinks we came from apes (kind of outdated notion there).
I am looking for a transcript of the video you posted but no luck yet.
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Salam Sawtoooth,
DNA can be changed and rearranged (from stem cells to toxins, it happens) I refuse to even consider that biology does NOT evolve to suit the enviornment, but I also am not a person who thinks we came from apes (kind of outdated notion there).
JK- So you dont believe man evolved from apes, correct? Well then everythings fine, almost with the exception that you should note that no additinal information can ever be received in the genome by random chance or mutations. It is utterly impossible. I agree the info which is there can cause changes and adaptations accordingly but those are anything but random. They are precalculated, designed features.
I am looking for a transcript of the video you posted but no luck yet.
JK- hmmmmm... how come? Is your sever too slow? Aint you using high speed/DSL? The website www.submissiontv.com does open, doent it? On that site did you left mouse click on "Evolution vs Creation,.."? If yes what message did you get? GOD Bless!
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So being born without a brain stem is precalculated? Toxins can due a number on the genes, and better yet, it can makes these changes inheritable to future generations
As for teh video, I got the bugs worked out as far as the walls I had up for protection, but I am now having trouble with flash and my upgraded Firefox. They are working on the bugs, but they have yet to fix flash and spellbound. Ya it sucks.
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Peace Jonny,
I watched the video and was surprised to find Dr. Khalifa state in bold letters, "Most of Darwin's Theory is Correct, Except for the Origin of Life". This happens to be what I've been arguing all along, and what you seemed to disagree with.
Please clarify if I'm wrong.
Peace,
Tay -
jonny_K
I like the video. I got a PhD in Biochemisty and Molecular Biology, but saidly when people do not listen they do not, whatever you say. I have asked those evolutionist out there, regarding how the genome is reprogrammed, and no body has given me any reply, apart from mutations and RNA editing. Which is rubbish! I am asking again How is the DNA reprogrammed, if evolution has to take control? If by any "chance" according to evolution, some of my DNA get reprogrammed which will, say e.g. will give me another enzyme to digest plastic---how will this be passed on to my next generation?
Peace bmbmm,
The nature of "mutations" are a little confusing. I find it more plausible that these occur in the germ cells - ie. sperm/ova and produce offspring that are different from the parent. That's how a mutation is passed on; your DNA mutating cannot get to your offspring as you note.
We know this occurs because down's syndrome and other diseases can occur as random mutations in the germ cells/embryo.
In the cases that we are able to discover - ie. when disease is caused this is 'deleterious' but the beneficial mutations may not be so easily detected if at all. An enhancement would likely be undetected because such tests/screening does not happen.
Also one must remember that a very significant number of pregnancies are spontaneously aborted due to changes incompatible with life. These mutations are obviously deleterious.
But going by statistics, can you not allow for the fact that just as there are deleterious mutations as we know from spontaneuos abortions and genetic diseases - that there would be beneficial mutations which are by their nature undetected?
These would confer an advantage to the offspring that are so affected; being passed on and selected as time passes on.
Regards.
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salaam all
What are we trying to prove or disprove regarding evolution. I am afraid I am struggling to understand the purpose here-any clarifications would be appreciated.
regardsMy question also. It seems that Khizar has a major grudge against evolution while nobody in this forum raises the topic. It's not like we advocate evolution here or anything...
Khizar, please answer. Why do you keep raising the evolution topic here?
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jonny_K
I like the video. I got a PhD in Biochemisty and Molecular Biology, but saidly when people do not listen they do not, whatever you say. I have asked those evolutionist out there, regarding how the genome is reprogrammed, and no body has given me any reply, apart from mutations and RNA editing. Which is rubbish! I am asking again How is the DNA reprogrammed, if evolution has to take control? If by any "chance" according to evolution, some of my DNA get reprogrammed which will, say e.g. will give me another enzyme to digest plastic---how will this be passed on to my next generation?
If the mutation happens to be included in the DNA in your reproductive cells, then your offspring, which is the product of your reproductive cells, will have that mutation too. Hey, you're a PhD, you should know basic reproductive biology!
PS I'm not sure if there's any plastic digesters out there, but nylon-digesting enzymes have been known to evolve in bacteria.
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peace everyone,
i dont trust this guy. and yes, i havn't watched the video. I will, though. But the reason i don't trust this guy Rashad Khalifa (regardless of the code 19 thing) is that he is looking at evolution from a religious point of view. He won't be willing to accept, even for a second, that evolution exists because to him, those are God's words. And God can't be wrong, can he?
But maybe he is right. And "right" here means fairly accurate. No one can know the absolute truth. He maybe close, but he has no scientific experiments, evidence, and more importantly reputation to prove he's right.
I'll give you more of my thoughts after I watch the video.
And about God's hand in evolution, i think it was all God's plan. Nothing that happened was coincidence. It was fate. Every little thing that happened that had a very very very small chance of happening happened because it was fate. -
well, i watched the video, and i have come to the conclusion that Dr. Rashad Khalifa has (or had) and IQ of 48. Some would call that mentally retarded.
About the probability thing, the "zero" he was talking about wasn't even a zero. The chance of something happening might be small, but it can happen. For example, if I had the 84 cubes he was talking about. And I toss them up in the air hoping for them to land in a 1-84 combination, I can get it the very first time. Even the second, third, fourth time. In fact, I could keep getting the same combination for the rest of my life. Its very very very very very very very unlikely but its possible (the key word here is possible).
He even admits during the video that evolution exists. No matter what explanation he gives after that, he admitted it.
About modifying darwin's theory, every theory keeps getting modified. Nothing in science is absolute (just like that zero). There's always error, because we're human. But scientists work to reduce that error and make theories as accurate as possible.
In fact, in terms of accuracy, the string theory is much farther from the truth than evolution. But people like khalifa have no problem with those theories.Also, theories are considered facts. Because they have been tested. And have evidence supporting them. You don't test a theory, you test a hypothesis that becomes a theory or law. And creationism is not even a hypothesis because its based on ignorance.
ignorance of what? well, ignorance of all the evidence that shouts "evolution!" What about all the fossils all the scientists have found? All the different species of every living thing. If God just wanted to create humans, why did he create everything else? why all the different types of apples? why all the different types of humans, even? why make us so complicated? why couldn't we just run on magic instead of chemical reactions and electron transport chains?
God "perfected" us. If we were as we are from the beginning, how did God perfect us? perfecting something is only possible if something isn't perfect. The whole point of evolution is for us to see all the things that are capable under God's might. Everything is possible if God wants. Even the smallest zeros can seem big if God wants. That's why evolution exists.And where's his document from outer space? I can't believe he thinks God lives somewhere in space.
That's the problem with people like him. They personify God.