Don't Love The Messenger? Has FM.org Gone Too Far?!
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As Salaam Alaikum,
I was reading aroun FM and seeing what other articles tehy have...
Well a while back I rea their articl (http//www.free-minds.org/articles/themessenger/messenger.htm)
about the Prophet Muhammad.They ask five question dealing with the Prophet Muhammad.
The last question asked is
"Do we love the messenger?"
Their answer is...
??Some people set up others to rival GOD, and love them as they love GOD. Those who believe love GOD the most. If only the transgressors could see themselves when they see the retribution! They will realize then that all power belongs to GOD alone, and that GOD's retribution is awesome.?? (Quran 2165)
What else is left for us to say?.
We respect and follow the messenger by upholding that which he delivered, but as for our love??There is only ONE who is worthy of absolute love.
The One who initiated the heavens and the earth, the One who created life and death, the One who??s hand guides the hearts of those who believe??
??Is One who creates like one who does not create? Would you now take heed??? (Quran 1617)
How can we even dare to love any other than GOD?
??If you count GOD's blessings, you cannot possibly encompass them. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.?? (Quran 161
Stay with GOD...there can never be anywhere else to go, but to Him.
Sorry but I am offended, and I feel that FM has gone too far on their stance. They have clearly eroded their "God Alone" thought to totally "not loving anyone else but God".
Now the Surah they use is 2165... here is what my translation says
Yet there are men who take others besides Allah, as equal They love them as they shoudl love Alah. But those of Faith are overflowing in thier love for Allah. If only the unrighteous could see, behold they would see they punishment that to allah belongs all power, and Allah will strongly enforce punishment.
But even besides that, even if we were to use FM's translation, it still does NOT say that we shouldn't love the Messenger, and clearly they are saying that they do not love the messenger. And even if you were to look at the verse, it talks about love in COMPARISON to Allah.
Those who believe love GOD the most.
The verse does not say anything about it's forbidden to love other people. And it is only talking about people loving people as much as they love God and putting him at and equal.
But clearly FM has gone beyond that and has said,
How can we even dare to love any other than GOD?
(i.e. we shouldn't love anyone else at all)
Sorry but I feel that they are transgressing the limits, and forbidding things that Allah has NOT forbidden.
And even beyond that, I wonder... do they apply this same concept to family and friends?? In other words are they debating so hard on this topic (distregarding hadiths) that they are willing to basically say "don't love the messenger" to get their point across?
Though I am someone who follows Quran alone, that still does not mean that I have no love for the Messenger. And I'm going to be real with you, though the Messenger is just another believer like everyone else, he is more than just another believer to me... at least that is the way that I view him.
He brought us so much, that I cannot look at him as just some "stranger" who I don't care for, but have no bad feeligns for either.
Don't get me wrong, I am not for loving him as much as I love Allah. No way! And I am totally agaisnt glorifying him as much as Allah.... but to totally make a pitn of DO NOT LOVE HIM? I will not accept that at all.
and it is quite clear, that they are NOT tlaking about don't love him as much as ALlah... But don't love him at all!
See again, this is what I fear. As poeple become more "QUran only" followers, I am afraid that they will totally mix up the message of "not following hadiths" with "Who the in the heck is the Prophet anyway? He ain't nobody." I'm serious! Suddenly the Prophet will be someone who we can talk sarcastically about, and have no important revelance when it even comes to Islam.
So I ahve to say... who agress with FM on this? Who doesn't? What do you think of all of this?
salaam
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Salaamun alaikum ppl,
I'm of the opinion that love or 'habba' is only for Allah as 2/165 states. There's 'wadda' or 'attachment' which is meant for spouses (e.g. 30/21), family etc but habba's only reserved for Allah.
For believers, an-nabiy is closer to them than thier own souls (33/6)
I enjoy studying the historical Muhammad ibn Abdullah but also the historical Jeshu of Nazareth but I can't say I feel love for them. Having said that, there's much love from me which still isn't for Allah.
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) love is very deep rooted iin my heart and get streghthen after visting Medina. You very well know my limitations my poor Arabic. The following verse I can quote to justify my love for Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
3356 God and His angels send blessings on the Prophet O ye that believe! Send ye blessings on him, and salute him with all respect.
I am sure someone will point out the following verse.
3343 He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers.
My understanding is Angels are doing their duty as commanded by Allah Taala. We must do our duty by send blessings to Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
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The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) love is very deep rooted iin my heart and get streghthen after visting Medina. You very well know my limitations my poor Arabic. The following verse I can quote to justify my love for Prophet Muhammad (SAW).
I understand where you're coming from and how can I deny your personal experience. My arabic is limited as well, its only I've done some research into this.
My understanding of 'yusalluna alan nabi' is that Allah and His malaika give focus and energy upon the rasul, almost a spiritual energy. 'yusallu' is the same root as 'salla' and 'as-salaat'. Those who believe are required to do the same. And an-nabi is told to do the same for us. In my view, this isn't possible with Muhammad ibn Abdullah as he's passed on.
Whatever the case is, I respect your view and if your love for Rasulullah is translated into a devotion to his teachings, good for you
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As Salaam ALiakum Mquran,
Salaamun alaikum ppl,
I'm of the opinion that love or 'habba' is only for Allah as 2/165 states. There's 'wadda' or 'attachment' which is meant for spouses (e.g. 30/21), family etc but habba's only reserved for Allah.
Okay I am missing something here. No where in that verse does it say, "love is only for Allah", could you please tell me how you got that conclusion from 2/165. The verse is clearly tlaking about love in comparison between human beings and Allah. It says that "believers love Allah the most" (i.e. they love him more than they love their families... but they still love their families)
salaam
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Okay I am missing something here. No where in that verse does it say, "love is only for Allah", could you please tell me how you got that conclusion from 2/165. The verse is clearly tlaking about love in comparison between human beings and Allah. It says that "believers love Allah the most" (i.e. they love him more than they love their families... but they still love their families)
Very perceptive good point there. I just noticed something too
It says YUH.IBBON -HUM KA- H.UBB 'ALLAAH
They love them as the love of AllahWA- 'ALLADHENA 'AAMANO ASHADD H.UBB(AN) LI- 'ALLAA
And those who believe are MORE intense in the love of Allah.So yes, my mistake, you're right. I didn't notice that 'ashaddu' is in the comparitive form, so it's 'more intense' instead of shadid or just intense.
However, i don't see where habba is used for parents, children, spouses. If you see any telling verse, please let me know. -
look people you are free love whoever you want, ok.
but there is thin line between love and idolisation
you have to let go of irrational beliefs and experiences.
Nadeem rasied a similar point here.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4586The question can be why is your Mohammed experience more truthful than someone elses Jesus experience which strengthed their faith in the trinity.
Which is why I say it again, let go if irrational beliefs.
peace.
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
Thank you very much for understanding my point. I am not perfect try everyday to improve myself. Everybody on this forum knows that I am not a soft spoken person, everybody on the forum knows that I am short tempered. Trying my best to overcome these personal weakness. Also trying to build up my patience and Tolerance.
Salaam Alleikum Burhan
I really don't understand what you are saying. Love is not idolising. I love my nieces and newphew very much which can't be term as idolising. Can you please eleborate.
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Salaam kgb
More than happy to elaborate.
Did I say love is idolising?
I said there is thin line between the two.
For example your love may blind into doing something that is wrong.
Even the prophets were guilty of this.So love for a person you've never met and only know through word of mouth is something worth questioning.
By all means admire them and learn from them, which is what you are probably be doing. I'm saying just be carefull, observer the thin line.
peace.
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Salaam Burhan
Thank you. I am not depending on the word of mouth. Allah Taala teach us that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was send as Rahmat Il Allamin (send as Mercy to all worlds). Allah Taala teach us that Prophet Muhammad was softspoken very kind person.
Qur'an never say not to love Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Love is not idolising.
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Peace,
Love is not something one can easily switch on or off at will.
I believe the verses that describe the "love of the God" are not instructions for people - but rather a way of distinguishing the true believers from others. Those who truly believe in the God, are the ones who inherently love the God more than anything.
It describes those people, rather than being instructions or a formula to a fast track to heaven etc.
Those who 'love' what is dead; what can neither benefit nor harm them (ie. Mohammed ibn Abdullah) are inseperable from someone who today stands before a carved idol and loves it or "through" it. Both are powerless to them, and therefore unworthy of any devotion or love.
Love is for living things - for al-Hayy - so I would say that those who love Mohammed ibn Abdullah are betraying an inherent tendency towards idolatry.
Regards.
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Truth,
So when one's mother's dies, they should stop loving her? Their child?
salaam
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Truth,
We don't have some carved statue of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) like Christian have the picture of Jeuses on the cross in front of them where they kneel down and pray. We all pray to serve Allah Taala. We bow down and prostrate to Allah Taala not Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Love can't be labeled as idoltary.
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Truth,
So when one's mother's dies, they should stop loving her? Their child?
Peace,
Your mother is someone who you love during life; someone you have had direct experience of. Once they are dead then they have completed that journey. You may still have love in your heart for the memories you have of that person in life. That's normal and human.
To love someone you neither knew personally, have no direct relationship to, who can neither harm nor benefit you, who has been dead for more than a thousand years is not the same even in the most basic sense. Yet the lovers of Mohammed ibn Abdullah would argue you must love him more than you do your parents!
Truth,
We don't have some carved statue of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) like Christian have the picture of Jeuses on the cross in front of them where they kneel down and pray. We all pray to serve Allah Taala. We bow down and prostrate to Allah Taala not Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Love can't be labeled as idoltary.
Are you saying that the misguided do not have plaques of Mohammed's name hung up on their walls besides the God? (I've once walked into a Pakistani/Bangladeshi mosque in Plymouth where there was ONLY a plaque of Mohammed's name up on the wall! The 'imam's face, bearded and blackened as it looked was devoid of any light. Wearing a turban with a raised "cock's comb" and holding a broomstick with a carved top - he parrotted a long winded passage of blessings upon Mohammed, Omar, Abu-Bakr, Othman, Ali, Hasan, Hussein.... the brutal shirk of it was completely grating to my senses. I never went back again.)
That their "love" by adding "SAW" to every mention of his name is not a form of blind and meaningless devotion that only serves to make them more misguided?
Most people cannot believe without creating partners.
Regards.
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peace be upon everyone (including all messengers of God)
I dont love Muhammad. There, I said it. And its true. Whoever he was, he was probably a great person and I truly respect him. To me, love is something you feel toward a person (or thing) that you've really known and has been part of your life. I dont think I could say I "love" God either. Its kind of wierd if you think about it. What kind of feelings do we have toward God? In my case, i don't know if its love, but its something similar, but still something very different. I dont know.Going back to the messengers, we are not required to love them, and I bet no one has any such feeling toward any of them.
But then, what is love? what do we define as love? to some, it may be utmost respect. To me, its something more, something different. Love can be their without respect. Love is unconditional. I doubt people would still "love" Muhammad if he was a fraud. That's what I mean. but that's just my opinion. -
As Salaam Alaikum Peace,
To love someone you neither knew personally, have no direct relationship to, who can neither harm nor benefit you, who has been dead for more than a thousand years is not the same even in the most basic sense. Yet the lovers of Mohammed ibn Abdullah would argue you must love him more than you do your parents!
So you believe that the Prophet Muhammad doesn't benefit you? If he never benefitted you, then why exactly was he the messenger?
salaam
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As SAlaam Alaikum,
That their "love" by adding "SAW" to every mention of his name is not a form of blind and meaningless devotion that only serves to make them more misguided?
Most people cannot believe without creating partners.
Regards.
Actually, most people do that out of respect... not as some form of loyalty and devotion. Sam as saying, "Mr." or "Mrs".... done out of respect, not devotion.
salaam
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So you believe that the Prophet Muhammad doesn't benefit you? If he never benefitted you, then why exactly was he the messenger?
Peace NoProgressive,
This is similar to the mistake of misinterpreting "Rahmat lil alamin" - mercy to the creation/existence (universe/world).
It is mercy from the God that sent Mohammed; Mohammed is the God's mercy to the world - Mohammed is not a mercy in and of himself. The mercy belongs to the God and is sent by Him and does not belong or relate to Mohammed's self.
We have benefitted and continue to benefit from the God's guidance and mercy - and not through men who lived ages ago.
Here is an example for you - if I send you something out of my mercy by giving it to a postman to deliver to you - who is benefitting you - me or the postman?
Thus it is with the God - all benefit is from Him; and ascribing special powers of benefit to Mohammed is the creating of partners for the God's authority. The God does not share His authority with anyone.
Please contemplate carefully...
- (What) you worship besides Him are nothing but names that you and your fathers have assigned, for which no sanction has been sent down by God. Authority belongs to God alone. He commands that you serve none but Him. This is the right way; but most men are ignorant.
Regards.