Don't Love The Messenger? Has FM.org Gone Too Far?!
-
Truth,
So when one's mother's dies, they should stop loving her? Their child?
Peace,
Your mother is someone who you love during life; someone you have had direct experience of. Once they are dead then they have completed that journey. You may still have love in your heart for the memories you have of that person in life. That's normal and human.
To love someone you neither knew personally, have no direct relationship to, who can neither harm nor benefit you, who has been dead for more than a thousand years is not the same even in the most basic sense. Yet the lovers of Mohammed ibn Abdullah would argue you must love him more than you do your parents!
Truth,
We don't have some carved statue of Prophet Muhammad (SAW) like Christian have the picture of Jeuses on the cross in front of them where they kneel down and pray. We all pray to serve Allah Taala. We bow down and prostrate to Allah Taala not Prophet Muhammad (SAW). Love can't be labeled as idoltary.
Are you saying that the misguided do not have plaques of Mohammed's name hung up on their walls besides the God? (I've once walked into a Pakistani/Bangladeshi mosque in Plymouth where there was ONLY a plaque of Mohammed's name up on the wall! The 'imam's face, bearded and blackened as it looked was devoid of any light. Wearing a turban with a raised "cock's comb" and holding a broomstick with a carved top - he parrotted a long winded passage of blessings upon Mohammed, Omar, Abu-Bakr, Othman, Ali, Hasan, Hussein.... the brutal shirk of it was completely grating to my senses. I never went back again.)
That their "love" by adding "SAW" to every mention of his name is not a form of blind and meaningless devotion that only serves to make them more misguided?
Most people cannot believe without creating partners.
Regards.
-
peace be upon everyone (including all messengers of God)
I dont love Muhammad. There, I said it. And its true. Whoever he was, he was probably a great person and I truly respect him. To me, love is something you feel toward a person (or thing) that you've really known and has been part of your life. I dont think I could say I "love" God either. Its kind of wierd if you think about it. What kind of feelings do we have toward God? In my case, i don't know if its love, but its something similar, but still something very different. I dont know.Going back to the messengers, we are not required to love them, and I bet no one has any such feeling toward any of them.
But then, what is love? what do we define as love? to some, it may be utmost respect. To me, its something more, something different. Love can be their without respect. Love is unconditional. I doubt people would still "love" Muhammad if he was a fraud. That's what I mean. but that's just my opinion. -
As Salaam Alaikum Peace,
To love someone you neither knew personally, have no direct relationship to, who can neither harm nor benefit you, who has been dead for more than a thousand years is not the same even in the most basic sense. Yet the lovers of Mohammed ibn Abdullah would argue you must love him more than you do your parents!
So you believe that the Prophet Muhammad doesn't benefit you? If he never benefitted you, then why exactly was he the messenger?
salaam
-
As SAlaam Alaikum,
That their "love" by adding "SAW" to every mention of his name is not a form of blind and meaningless devotion that only serves to make them more misguided?
Most people cannot believe without creating partners.
Regards.
Actually, most people do that out of respect... not as some form of loyalty and devotion. Sam as saying, "Mr." or "Mrs".... done out of respect, not devotion.
salaam
-
So you believe that the Prophet Muhammad doesn't benefit you? If he never benefitted you, then why exactly was he the messenger?
Peace NoProgressive,
This is similar to the mistake of misinterpreting "Rahmat lil alamin" - mercy to the creation/existence (universe/world).
It is mercy from the God that sent Mohammed; Mohammed is the God's mercy to the world - Mohammed is not a mercy in and of himself. The mercy belongs to the God and is sent by Him and does not belong or relate to Mohammed's self.
We have benefitted and continue to benefit from the God's guidance and mercy - and not through men who lived ages ago.
Here is an example for you - if I send you something out of my mercy by giving it to a postman to deliver to you - who is benefitting you - me or the postman?
Thus it is with the God - all benefit is from Him; and ascribing special powers of benefit to Mohammed is the creating of partners for the God's authority. The God does not share His authority with anyone.
Please contemplate carefully...
- (What) you worship besides Him are nothing but names that you and your fathers have assigned, for which no sanction has been sent down by God. Authority belongs to God alone. He commands that you serve none but Him. This is the right way; but most men are ignorant.
Regards.
-
Example...
- The Messiah son of Mary, is no more than a messenger; like whom messengers have passed away; and his mother was trustworthy, they used to eat the food. See how We clarify the signs for them, then see how they deviate.
- Say ?Do you serve other than God what cannot harm you or benefit you?? God is the Hearer, the Knower.
Make the connection...
-
Say ?I do not posses for myself any benefit or harm, except what God wills.
-
Say ?I do not posses for myself any harm or benefit except what God wills.
-
Say ?Who is the Lord of the heavens and Earth,? Say ?God.? Say ?Have you taken besides Him allies who do not posses for themselves any benefit or harm??...
Peace
-
KGB Thank you very much for understanding my point. I am not perfect try everyday to improve myself. Everybody on this forum knows that I am not a soft spoken person, everybody on the forum knows that I am short tempered. Trying my best to overcome these personal weakness. Also trying to build up my patience and Tolerance
Hate is not a bad thing itself. The people of Ibrahim had al-baghd/hate arise in them in their fight against their oppressive people. The people with Muhammad are intense against al-kuffar. Of course, when people disparage your deen and you get provoked (and I'm as guilty as you are) the correct response is to walk off (4/140) or just say salaam (25/67)
I really don't understand what you are saying. Love is not idolising. I love my nieces and newphew very much which can't be term as idolising. Can you please eleborate.
KGB, that might be 'wadda' instead of 'habba', I need to look up the differences but NP's made a good point here.
BurhanFor example your love may blind into doing something that is wrong.
Even the prophets were guilty of this.If you find the ayaat for this, this would shed light on what is 'habba'.
TruthI believe the verses that describe the "love of the God" are not instructions for people - but rather a way of distinguishing the true believers from others. Those who truly believe in the God, are the ones who inherently love the God more than anything.
Agreed. Its never in command form, rather we have causal statements such as
Say "If ye do love God, Follow me God will love you and forgive you your sins For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (3/31)
QUL 'IN KUNTUM TUH.IBBON 'ALLAAH FA- ITTABIcO -NE YUH.BIB -KUM 'ALLAAH WA- YAGHFIR LA- -KUM DHUNOB -KUM WA- 'ALLAAH GHAFOR RAH.EM
What's rather interesting here to me is that the text is 'in KUNTUM tuhibbuna' when 'in tuhibbuna' is enough. 'kuntum' relates to 'kaun' or 'being' so this implies to me that 'habba' is something to do with our being.
Truth Those who 'love' what is dead; what can neither benefit nor harm them (ie. Mohammed ibn Abdullah) are inseperable from someone who today stands before a carved idol and loves it or "through" it. Both are powerless to them, and therefore unworthy of any devotion or love.
Love is for living things - for al-Hayy - so I would say that those who love Mohammed ibn Abdullah are betraying an inherent tendency towards idolatry.
Please bring evidence for this, truth. I see the problem here is we may be talking PAST each other. We're throwing around a common word 'love' but to each person love might mean something different that to the other. As such, lets find a definitive meaning of habba , I think 3/31 gives a good one, if u love then u follow, (in tuhibbu fattabiu). That's a Quranic causality right there. If you have any in mind, please bring them as well.
Are you saying that the misguided do not have plaques of Mohammed's name hung up on their walls besides the God? (I've once walked into a Pakistani/Bangladeshi mosque in Plymouth where there was ONLY a plaque of Mohammed's name up on the wall! The 'imam's face, bearded and blackened as it looked was devoid of any light. Wearing a turban with a raised "cock's comb" and holding a broomstick with a carved top - he parrotted a long winded passage of blessings upon Mohammed, Omar, Abu-Bakr, Othman, Ali, Hasan, Hussein.... the brutal shirk of it was completely grating to my senses. I never went back again.)
Maybe the Allah plague was being polished...?
I think , in order to clarify this issue, we need to
-
check out both words 'habba' and 'wadda' (58/20 has wadda)
-
see if habba is only for Allah (NP's argument was sound for 2/165)
-
see what are indications of 'habba' and 'wadda'
lets not get at cross-purposes with our definitions. We might be actually agreeing but due to semantics, seems like we're disagreeing.
-
-
Salaam all,
Just want to add that instead of love you can respect and make no difference between God's messengers and prophets.
But I think it's wrong to say that love is close to idolworship.
I mean you love your spouse and your child/children but don't worship them.
Peace Sis Maria
-
wor?ship (w?r'shp) pronunciation
n.- The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
- The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
- Ardent devotion; adoration.
- often Worship Chiefly British. Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries Your Worship.
v., -shiped or -shipped, -ship?ing or -ship?ping, -ships or -ships.
v.tr.
- To honor and love as a deity.
- To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. See synonyms at revere1.
v.intr.
- To participate in religious rites of worship.
- To perform an act of worship.
For some reason I see this whole worship thing as something purely created by man. I mean isn't vanity one of the greater sins? Why would a "god" indulge in a sin that he supposedly opposes so much in is? A double standard god? LOL "worship me, as I demand of you" HEHE OK so it's a bit silly but really, if you look at it, it pretty much HAD to be written by and of man that we worship the creator. It is WAY to human. I kind of picture the creator as either turning red from the embarrassment or giggling hysterically as people actually think it would demand of us something so silly.
-
Salam NoProgressive,
I agree with you. I too fell love for GOD's messengers including His angels and His prophets. I also feel love for the rest of GOD's Creation except Satan and those who follow him. Ofcourse we can fell love for them. Nothing wrong with that and i dont know how some/more people on FM can ever make such a claim. It sounds absolutely stupid to me. And your right we should love GOD the most because all other love we experience is temporary and part of the illusion CRETAED BY GOD. GOD created the feeling love within our bodies. Without the specific DNA code we couldnt even feel love. Thus how can it be wrong to expereince something GOD created and love is a +ve thing? Makes no sense. We can also mention Mary/Jesus/etc in the scripture while delivering a sermon. Nothing wrong with that. Why does GOD mention those names anyways? I suppose the only logical answer is to awaken our emotions, to experience love and ofcourse love GOD the most. GOD Bless!