Don't Love The Messenger? Has FM.org Gone Too Far?!

zenje

Example...

The Messiah son of Mary, is no more than a messenger; like whom messengers have passed away; and his mother was trustworthy, they used to eat the food. See how We clarify the signs for them, then see how they deviate.
Say ?Do you serve other than God what cannot harm you or benefit you?? God is the Hearer, the Knower.

Make the connection...

Say ?I do not posses for myself any benefit or harm, except what God wills.
Say ?I do not posses for myself any harm or benefit except what God wills.
Say ?Who is the Lord of the heavens and Earth,? Say ?God.? Say ?Have you taken besides Him allies who do not posses for themselves any benefit or harm??...

Peace

mquran

KGB Thank you very much for understanding my point. I am not perfect try everyday to improve myself. Everybody on this forum knows that I am not a soft spoken person, everybody on the forum knows that I am short tempered. Trying my best to overcome these personal weakness. Also trying to build up my patience and Tolerance

Hate is not a bad thing itself. The people of Ibrahim had al-baghd/hate arise in them in their fight against their oppressive people. The people with Muhammad are intense against al-kuffar. Of course, when people disparage your deen and you get provoked (and I'm as guilty as you are) the correct response is to walk off (4/140) or just say salaam (25/67)

I really don't understand what you are saying. Love is not idolising. I love my nieces and newphew very much which can't be term as idolising. Can you please eleborate.

KGB, that might be 'wadda' instead of 'habba', I need to look up the differences but NP's made a good point here.

BurhanFor example your love may blind into doing something that is wrong.
Even the prophets were guilty of this.

If you find the ayaat for this, this would shed light on what is 'habba'.

TruthI believe the verses that describe the "love of the God" are not instructions for people - but rather a way of distinguishing the true believers from others. Those who truly believe in the God, are the ones who inherently love the God more than anything.

Agreed. Its never in command form, rather we have causal statements such as

Say "If ye do love God, Follow me God will love you and forgive you your sins For God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (3/31)

QUL 'IN KUNTUM TUH.IBBON 'ALLAAH FA- ITTABIcO -NE YUH.BIB -KUM 'ALLAAH WA- YAGHFIR LA- -KUM DHUNOB -KUM WA- 'ALLAAH GHAFOR RAH.EM

What's rather interesting here to me is that the text is 'in KUNTUM tuhibbuna' when 'in tuhibbuna' is enough. 'kuntum' relates to 'kaun' or 'being' so this implies to me that 'habba' is something to do with our being.

Truth Those who 'love' what is dead; what can neither benefit nor harm them (ie. Mohammed ibn Abdullah) are inseperable from someone who today stands before a carved idol and loves it or "through" it. Both are powerless to them, and therefore unworthy of any devotion or love.

Love is for living things - for al-Hayy - so I would say that those who love Mohammed ibn Abdullah are betraying an inherent tendency towards idolatry.

Please bring evidence for this, truth. I see the problem here is we may be talking PAST each other. We're throwing around a common word 'love' but to each person love might mean something different that to the other. As such, lets find a definitive meaning of habba , I think 3/31 gives a good one, if u love then u follow, (in tuhibbu fattabiu). That's a Quranic causality right there. If you have any in mind, please bring them as well.

Are you saying that the misguided do not have plaques of Mohammed's name hung up on their walls besides the God? (I've once walked into a Pakistani/Bangladeshi mosque in Plymouth where there was ONLY a plaque of Mohammed's name up on the wall! The 'imam's face, bearded and blackened as it looked was devoid of any light. Wearing a turban with a raised "cock's comb" and holding a broomstick with a carved top - he parrotted a long winded passage of blessings upon Mohammed, Omar, Abu-Bakr, Othman, Ali, Hasan, Hussein.... the brutal shirk of it was completely grating to my senses. I never went back again.)

Maybe the Allah plague was being polished...?

I think , in order to clarify this issue, we need to

check out both words 'habba' and 'wadda' (58/20 has wadda)
see if habba is only for Allah (NP's argument was sound for 2/165)
see what are indications of 'habba' and 'wadda'

lets not get at cross-purposes with our definitions. We might be actually agreeing but due to semantics, seems like we're disagreeing.

SwedenMajidah

Salaam all,

Just want to add that instead of love you can respect and make no difference between God's messengers and prophets.

But I think it's wrong to say that love is close to idolworship.

I mean you love your spouse and your child/children but don't worship them.

Peace Sis Maria

sawtooth

wor?ship (w?r'shp) pronunciation
n.

The reverent love and devotion accorded a deity, an idol, or a sacred object.
The ceremonies, prayers, or other religious forms by which this love is expressed.
Ardent devotion; adoration.
often Worship Chiefly British. Used as a form of address for magistrates, mayors, and certain other dignitaries Your Worship.

v., -shiped or -shipped, -ship?ing or -ship?ping, -ships or -ships.

v.tr.

To honor and love as a deity.
To regard with ardent or adoring esteem or devotion. See synonyms at revere1.

v.intr.

To participate in religious rites of worship.
To perform an act of worship.

For some reason I see this whole worship thing as something purely created by man. I mean isn't vanity one of the greater sins? Why would a "god" indulge in a sin that he supposedly opposes so much in is? A double standard god? LOL "worship me, as I demand of you" HEHE OK so it's a bit silly but really, if you look at it, it pretty much HAD to be written by and of man that we worship the creator. It is WAY to human. I kind of picture the creator as either turning red from the embarrassment or giggling hysterically as people actually think it would demand of us something so silly.

jonny_k

Salam NoProgressive,
I agree with you. I too fell love for GOD's messengers including His angels and His prophets. I also feel love for the rest of GOD's Creation except Satan and those who follow him. Ofcourse we can fell love for them. Nothing wrong with that and i dont know how some/more people on FM can ever make such a claim. It sounds absolutely stupid to me. And your right we should love GOD the most because all other love we experience is temporary and part of the illusion CRETAED BY GOD. GOD created the feeling love within our bodies. Without the specific DNA code we couldnt even feel love. Thus how can it be wrong to expereince something GOD created and love is a +ve thing? Makes no sense. We can also mention Mary/Jesus/etc in the scripture while delivering a sermon. Nothing wrong with that. Why does GOD mention those names anyways? I suppose the only logical answer is to awaken our emotions, to experience love and ofcourse love GOD the most. GOD Bless!