Islam : the true history and false beliefs
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Its funny how one who believes in a quranic criteria can write a 'TRUE history of islam'.
Dear mquran,
Everybody here at FM will say "Islam has been corrupted throughout times"...
But, when we are asked "How and when did it occur ?", nobody is able to give an answer...
You know... Quran Only ideas will not progress unless we have a response to this kind of questions...
But Shabbir has done that... And he is the first...
I am not saying his work is perfect and definite... But I nonetheless think it is a quite valuable endeavor, and that his book should be read and commented
Peace & regards
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
I certainly will read Dr. Shabbir book.
Salaam Alleikum /JM/
The problem with Dr. Shabbir Ahmed and the people asscociated with him that they believe Dr. Shabbir is free of all errors. They believe that QXP is the only translation. The other problem with Dr. Shabbir Ahmed is that he can't tolerate any crticism. There you have to agree with everything Dr. Shabbir write.
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JM, I'm a person at FM and i've never said Islam has been corrupted throughout times. Its actually beyond my concern. What is of concern is our situation here and now. Dr Shabbir will be engaging in conjectural stories, all guesswork. Maybe to him its 'jidaal' or argument, i dont know. I just dont see how you can be Quranic and historical.
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I certainly will read Dr. Shabbir book.
So will I, have it all downloaded and ready for tonight.
The problem with Dr. Shabbir Ahmed and the people asscociated with him that they believe Dr. Shabbir is free of all errors. They believe that QXP is the only translation. The other problem with Dr. Shabbir Ahmed is that he can't tolerate any crticism. There you have to agree with everything Dr. Shabbir write.
Dr Shabbir's linguistics is excellent but I find him closed-minded to new ideas. So I'll take what I can leave the rest.
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The problem with Dr. Shabbir Ahmed and the people asscociated with him that they believe Dr. Shabbir is free of all errors. They believe that QXP is the only translation. The other problem with Dr. Shabbir Ahmed is that he can't tolerate any crticism. There you have to agree with everything Dr. Shabbir write.
Dr Shabbir's linguistics is excellent but I find him closed-minded to new ideas. So I'll take what I can leave the rest.
What you are both saying is true, alas.
But, he is exposing nearly the same ideas as FM, and he is a true defender of the Quran Only ideas.
We, as quran only followers, cannot criticise divisions of Sunnis, shias, and other sects, and still be ourselves as divided as them.
We should all try to get united.
May God help us
Peace
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But, he is exposing nearly the same ideas as FM, and he is a true defender of the Quran Only ideas.
We, as quran only followers, cannot criticise divisions of Sunnis, shias, and other sects, and still be ourselves as divided as them.
We should all try to get united.
I'm not pro many of the ideas of FM. FM isnt a fixed dogmatic group in which you either believe as Layth does or you're out. FM is a discussion group.
My reading of al-quraan tells me that unity has a certain element about it. Dr Shabbir isn't proposing a movement. He's just writing. Layth, as far as I can see, isnt either. He's just organisng a loosely based group in cyberspace. Both have done far more than what i've done, of course.
Unity in quranic terms is in the real life implementation of al-islaam. Once you do this, then you can see who's united with you and who's not.
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
Real time implementation is only possible when majority of the people have start believing that Qur'an is the main source. Wakas Qur'an - Study Group is one step forward to delveop the minds of Sunnis and Shias. Making Free Minds a movement required plenty of money which is only possible if we start raising funds to take it further. inshaAllah that would be the next step towards making Qur'an the main guidance taking it to majority of Sunnis and Shias.
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The last book of Shabbir Ahmed is now available online !
The most revolutionary book ever on Islam.
(Not recommended for the feeble-minded or the weak-hearted)This book is dedicated to those who openly seek knowledge wherever it is...
http//www.ourbeacon.com/TRUE%20HISTORY.pdf
Looking forward to your comments.
Peace be upon you /JM/
Please don't be fooled into believing something blindly just because somebody states they have a similar viewpoint to your own. Isn't this un-Quranic and un-Islamic?
Having read various bits of the first 15 pages he actually seems to prove very little. Therefore his statements are his own opinions. Having said that, that does not mean he is wrong.
Roshan
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Please don't be fooled into believing something blindly just because somebody states they have a similar viewpoint to your own. Isn't this un-Quranic and un-Islamic?
Having read various bits of the first 15 pages he actually seems to prove very little. Therefore his statements are his own opinions. Having said that, that does not mean he is wrong.
Roshan
Please be reassured I do follow nothing nor nobody blindly.
The book I have given the link to is IMHO worth to be pondered upon to, but no book deserves blind acceptance.Peace
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Please be reassured I do follow nothing nor nobody blindly.
The book I have given the link to is IMHO worth to be pondered upon to, but no book deserves blind acceptance.Peace
Peace this is reassuring. Having said this, the book appears extremely poor. Look what I just read
In Makkah there were men of great power and wealth. An average leader had about 7 wives, 10 concubines and 15 slaves.
Did he get this from a population census? A book of dubious purpose. His intentions were probably good, but this book should be thrown in the bin/recycled.
Roshan
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KGBReal time implementation is only possible when majority of the people have start believing that Qur'an is the main source. Wakas Qur'an - Study Group is one step forward to delveop the minds of Sunnis and Shias. Making Free Minds a movement required plenty of money which is only possible if we start raising funds to take it further. inshaAllah that would be the next step towards making Qur'an the main guidance taking it to majority of Sunnis and Shias.
I'm sorry but I can't agree with you because it won't happen. Even among the 'quranic believers' people reject the ayat so what more among the so-called 'muslims'. To me, it can only work with a leader under God's inspiration. Al-quraan calls him a rasul but I don't mind, the name's not as important as the mission. We can agree to disagree here as I know your views
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Please don't be fooled into believing something blindly just because somebody states they have a similar viewpoint to your own. Isn't this un-Quranic and un-Islamic?
To me, it is.
Having read various bits of the first 15 pages he actually seems to prove very little. Therefore his statements are his own opinions. Having said that, that does not mean he is wrong.
He'll be a good source for jidaal/argumentation with the Sunnis. He always is, but as a source of truth, I dont think so.
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I'm sorry but I can't agree with you because it won't happen. Even among the 'quranic believers' people reject the ayat so what more among the so-called 'muslims'. To me, it can only work with a leader under God's inspiration. Al-quraan calls him a rasul but I don't mind, the name's not as important as the mission. We can agree to disagree here as I know your views
We are at the very initial stage of Qur'anic revolution. We disagree but we are not spilitting. We at this initial stage wanted to keep united with all our disagreements. I don't disagree with you or anybody just for the sake of disagreement.
MQuran this is not going to happen instantly. All we have to do is just lay the foundation for the comming generations to keep the mission alive.
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We are at the very initial stage of Qur'anic revolution. We disagree but we are not spilitting. We at this initial stage wanted to keep united with all our disagreements. I don't disagree with you or anybody just for the sake of disagreement.
KGB, i feel your sincerety here but I've seen how these things go. Toluislam's been around for nearly 70 years without result. Quranic movements like Ahlul Quran, Anjuman Muslimeen and Balaghul Quran have all died out. In my view, the reason for this is, they were unwilling to explore the messenger aspect of al-quraan. Muhammad ibn Abdullah's gone and that's it. To me, a vital aspect of the movement of al-quraan is ar-rasool. He's the epicentre of the movement and without him in the equation, the driving force isn't there. So I dont believe a Quranic revolution will take place without someone fulfilling this role (whatever he calls himself).
MQuran this is not going to happen instantly. All we have to do is just lay the foundation for the comming generations to keep the mission alive.
What's your strategy for laying foundations?
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G. A. Perwaiz Toule e Islam is very much alive but did not gain momemtum and popularity because majority of the Sunnis and Shias are brain slaves to their so called Ulemas.
The strategy is simple. We have to reach out to Sunnis and Shias and invite them to the message of Qur'an. We have to change our attitudes not to scare them off the site by rejecting all their beliefs which are very much part of their daily life. All we have to do is to show the message in very polite manner. The change will come very slowely and gradually. When they reach to that stage than they can understand your Joe and Kyle point of view otherwise the they will run away from the site immediately thinking that we are some kind of cult.
There were many Sunnis come to Free Minds and we did not handle them properly (I am very much resoponsible for scaring them off the site with my arrogant attitude). I realise this mistake and will not repeat this in the future.
Qur'an study Group will be an excellent platform to bring Sunnis and Shias together just to study the Message. This is a step forward and is the founding stone.
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G. A. Perwaiz Toule e Islam is very much alive but did not gain momemtum and popularity because majority of the Sunnis and Shias are brain slaves to their so called Ulemas.
Brother I cant agree with you here but this will just be my opinion because this is all in the past. To me, when I read Parwez, he comes across as a cold and clinical analyst of al-islaam. Al-islaam is a socio-economic order, he said. He even interprets 'heart' concepts to mean 'brain'. Thus he rejects the emotive aspect of man.
I believe Toluislam can rejuvenate themselves if they will engage with the ayaat. Once they do this, they will move past Parwez and into a new era. Dr Shabbir is a good example of this.
The strategy is simple. We have to reach out to Sunnis and Shias and invite them to the message of Qur'an. We have to change our attitudes not to scare them off the site by rejecting all their beliefs which are very much part of their daily life. All we have to do is to show the message in very polite manner. The change will come very slowely and gradually. When they reach to that stage than they can understand your Joe and Kyle point of view otherwise the they will run away from the site immediately thinking that we are some kind of cult.
Agreed. I was discussing this with Leena on the Paltalk thread. I am torn between being frank with them and being political. I need to look into al-quraan more to see which approach is the best.
There were many Sunnis come to Free Minds and we did not handle them properly (I am very much resoponsible for scaring them off the site with my arrogant attitude). I realise this mistake and will not repeat this in the future.
The last one, Samiri was very productive. He was an honest student who actually looked into al-quraan. I admire his courage in facing up to things.
Qur'an study Group will be an excellent platform to bring Sunnis and Shias together just to study the Message. This is a step forward and is the founding stone.
Excellent, may Allah keep you steadfast in your work.
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I've just finished the book a few minutes ago.
Dr Shabbir did a good job deconstructing the false histories of islam. However, he tries to fill the subsequent vacuum with another false history with plenty of guesswork.
To me, the way to approach al-islaam is cleanly, free of histories. Approach al-quraan as if it was revealed to u.
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Peace,
Shabbir Ahmed comes from a Pakistani background and probably has been heavily influenced by past Barelvi or Deobandi belief, sees Mohammed as a kind of superhuman.
He still values the prophet over the God, as can be witnessed by subtle and not so subtle betrayals of this.
HAS MUHAMMAD, THE EXALTED DIED?
Physically yes, but his Noble Mission is marching on. In this sense, he is living. The Qur'an foretells more than once that its Noble Message will prevail over all religion and ways of life. Just as the Creator is One, mankind is One Community.
Mohammed is dead and is not living in any real sense. He is 'living' only for those who harbour Barelvi/Deobandi doctrine which believes in such nonsense. Shabbir Ahmed is attempting to cater to this market.
The truth is that the God's system pre-dates Mohammed who was only a man. It is the guidance and mercy of the God toward humanity and all existence which is everlasting and lives on.
It is not Mohammed's "Noble Mission" which is marching on, but rather the God's infinite mercy and promise that the truth will overcome all falsehood.
And Shabbir is as much a believer in and peddler of falsehood as the 'mullah's of "number two islam" that he condemns.
Shabbir on his website many times admits that he cannot swallow the fact that Mohammed was just a 'postman' and will go out of his way to describe him as 'exalted' etc.
Shabbir Ahmed has a way to go before he can free himself of the excessive focus he has on Mohammed. He may profess to be "Quran alone" but he is most certainly not "God alone" as he betrays excessive devotion to Mohammed.
Regards.
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Well, I must say, I was perturbed by the 'greatest man', 'greatest moment in history' type of stuff. But lets not attribute that to his background , Truth. Muhammad ibn Abdullah is simply a historical figure people of a certain psychological persuasion appropriate in order to satiate thier needs. He's no different from Jesus, Guru Nanak, Kuan Kong etc etc.
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Salaam Alleikum MQuran
I certainly will read Dr. Shabbir book.
Salaam Alleikum /JM/
The problem with Dr. Shabbir Ahmed and the people asscociated with him that they believe Dr. Shabbir is free of all errors. They believe that QXP is the only translation. The other problem with Dr. Shabbir Ahmed is that he can't tolerate any crticism. There you have to agree with everything Dr. Shabbir write.
Peace
and yet one does not have the impression that it imposes its ideas
when one read his introduction of which here an extractLike all other humble works of mine, this book is based on research by a lifelong,
fallible student, Shabbir Ahmed. It has taken much time and labor as the
discerning readers and writers can tell. While the author assures the readers of
his intellectual honesty, he is always liable to make mistakes and projects no
claims whatsoever. The reader may not agree with any part(s) of this book or
even in its entirety. The strength of this work may indeed dwell in the fact that it
leaves plenty of room for the reader's own rationale and judgment to accept or
dismiss any statements made by this author or the ancient "authorities". Criticism
from any quarters will always be welcome and appreciated and any errors will be
corrected in the second edition with sincere gratitude.Peace