Salat 3 or 5? Proving 5
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Salamun alaikum JHamza, Elke, all,
QUR'AANIC DAY AND QUR'AANIC NIGHT
I think most of the confusion arises because of the misunderstanding of the Qur'aanic day and the Qur'aanic night. According to the Qur'aan, "day" starts at beginning of dawn and ends at complete darkness. So dawn and dusk are included in "day". Qur'aanic "night" starts at sunset and ends at sunrise. So "night" includes dawn and dusk also. The "day" and the "night" therefore overlap at dawn and dusk. Please see the article at the following link for the Qur'aanic proof of this
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/quranic.htm
Once this is established, it will become easier to find out the timings of "salat" according to the Qur'aan.
QUR'AAN IS CLEAR
Allah says that the Qur'aan is clear and has no doubt in it. It is us who create confusion in the word of The God by trying to find something where it does not exist, due to our preconceived notions. The God willing, we will see that The God is very clear about the timings and the number of salat in the Qur'aan.
Allah clearly uses the word "salat" for salat and not "praise" or "glory". When the Quran mentions salat to be upheld the word AQIMIS SALAH is used, not glorify (sabih) or remember (uzkur), or call (udu'u) or any other imperative. Of course "salat" is for Allah's remembrance and praise but is not the only way of remembering and praising The God. We can remember and praise The God many times a day but lets try to find out how many times a day we are advised to uphold "salat". When The God tells us about the timings and names of "salat", He clearly uses the word "salat" in the verse, and not "praise" or "remembrance".
For that we have to see only those verses which are directly talking about "salat". That eliminates 20130, 3017, 3018 as the "salat" timing verses.
WHAT ABOUT SALAT AL-WUSTA ?
"Salat al- wusta" is WRONGLY translated as the "middle" prayer. "Wusta" is derived from the root "WST". The usage of the words derived from the root WST in the Qur'aan indicates that it always means "best" (589, 6826, 2143). For details, see under the heading of SALAT AL-WUSTA in the article at the following link
http//www.free-minds.org/contact.htm (read this article after finishing reading my post please)
Also if you examine 2238 closely you will find that it supports "wusta" meaning "best" and not the name of an additional "middle" salat.
2238 Preserve/guard the salawaat (plural of salaat), and the best/moderate salat, and stand devoutly for God.
There are 2 proofs from the Qur'aan, that salat al-wusta is not an additional salat
FIRST PROOF
All the "salat" are automatically included in "salawaat"; it does not make any sense to say "and the middle salat" after already mentioning all salat; that would be redundant and illogical.
SECOND PROOF
The word "wa" in the Qur'aan does not always separate 2 different subjects; it has also been used in the Qur'aan to separate two attributes of the same subject or to add explanation of a previously mentioned subject to clarify it.
For example
4113 And God has sent down to you the Book and the wisdom, and He has taught you that which you did not know. God's grace upon you is great.
Here the Book and the Wisdom refer to the same Qur'aan, they are not two different books. So Allah is mentioning two attributes of the same Qur'aan, separated by "wa". The Qur'aan is a book and it contains wisdom. So here the Book AND the Wisdom is not two different books but attributes of the same Qur'aan.
Another example
2148 And We had given Moses and Aaron the Criterion and a shining light and reminder for the righteous.
Here the Criterion is the shining light is the reminder. They are not 3 different books.
So in 2238 when Allah says "guard/preserve the salawaat AND salat al-wusta", salat al-wusta is an attribute of the salawaat, meaning THE BEST SALAT. The God wants that ALL OF OUR SALAT SHOULD BE THE BEST (upheld in the best possible manner). Salat al-wusta is the pattern for EACH salat that a believer should uphold, and here in this verse does not mean another salat.
TIMING VERSES FOR SALAT
That leaves the following verses which UNAMBIGUOUSLY and CLEARLY mention timing of salat
TIMING VERSE 2458
2458 O you who believe, let those who are your dependants and have not yet attained puberty request your permission regarding three times Before the dawn salat, and should you take off your attire from being outdoors, and after the dusk salat. These are three private times for you. Other than these times, it is not wrong for you or them to intermingle with one another. God thus clarifies the revelations for you. And God is Knowledgeable, Wise.
This verse is self explanatory. In Salat al-fajr, the word "fajr" itself means dawn and in salat al-'isha, the word "isha" itself means dusk. So now we have 2 salat, one at dawn, and the other at dusk. So far it is very clear, agreed ?
TIMING VERSE 1778
1778 You shall uphold the salat from the sun's "DULUK", to the darkness of the night, and the Qur'aan at dawn; the Qur'aan at dawn is witnessed.
What is "DULUK" ? This word is mentioned only one time in the Quran. Its root is DLK, which means "to rub or to massage". In this context (177 it means the rubbing of the sun at sunset (the context of the verse suggests that it is at sunset and not at sunrise). This word has been given another meaning (sun?s decline at noon) to confuse the issue but please read the article mentioned above in my post for refutation of that at the following link
http//www.free-minds.org/contact.htm (read it after finishing my post please)
LI DULUKI AL-SHAMSI means the sun's rubbing of the horizon at sunset. With the preposition LI, which means (in this case) just after, the very precise meaning of "li duluki al-shamsi" would be just after the sun goes beyond the horizon. So if we take this meaning then the first part of the verse would be translated as follow
"Uphold the salat from when the sun goes beyond the horizon (after sunset) up to the darkness (twilight)".
The Qur'aan at dawn is synonymous with the salat al-fajr; the most important part of upholding salat is oration of the Qur'aan.
Therefore this verse also confirms the same two times of upholding salat as 2458. So far 2458 is consistent with 1778.
TIMING VERSE 11114
11114 And you shall uphold the salat at the two edges of the day, and the near part of the night. The good deeds take away the bad. This is a reminder to those who remember.
The words "tarafey alnahaar" mean the two ends or edges of the day. "Zulafam minal leyli" is a clarification and specification for these two ends, are they towards the day end or are they towards the night end ? This verse says they are towards the night. Here "wa" again does not mean two different timings but the phrase after the "wa" is a clarifying and explanatory phrase of the phrase preceding the "wa". I already explained this usage of "wa" earlier in my post.
Some people think that the word "zulafan" or "times close to" is in the plural and therefore can not stand for the two ends (dual) but this is not correct. Linguistically, it is correct and very natural to clarify and specify the dual with plural. The Quran in many places uses this combination (see 1675 they are two men but the verb is in the plural)
So in this verse Allah is telling us about the two times where the Qur'aanic night and the Qur'aanic day merge/overlap, i.e. dusk and dawn. (See earlier part of my post for explanation of the Qur'aanic day and night)
This verse 11114 therefore confirms the same two times of upholding salat as 1778. So far we have seen that all three verses 2458, 1778, and 11114 CONSISTENTLY mention the same timings for upholding salat. The only inescapable conclusion of this would be that Allah mentions only 2 timings to uphold salat and mentions only 2 salat by name in the Qur'aan, therefore there are a minimum of only TWO salat to be upheld by believers SALAT AL-FAJR (at dawn) and SALAT AL-'ISHA (at dusk).
Please now read the article at the following link for all the details
http//www.free-minds.org/contact.htm
May Allah guide us all to the truth.
Best regards,
Tanveer
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There are 5 Contact Prayers/ Salat in 1 day.
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11114, 2458
You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.
O you who believe, permission must be requested by your servants and the children who have not attained puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in three instances - before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer. These are three private times for you. At other times, it is not wrong for you or them to mingle with one another. GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 1778 and 3018
You shall observe the Contact Prayer (Salat) when the sun declines from its highest point at noon, as it moves towards sunset. You shall also observe (the recitation of) the Quran at dawn. (Reciting) the Quran at dawn is witnessed.
All praise is due to Him in the heavens and the earth, throughout the evening, as well as in the middle of your day.(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2238
You shall consistently observe the Contact Prayers, especially the middle prayer, and devote yourselves totally to GOD.(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11114
You shall observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) at both ends of the day, and during the night. The righteous works wipe out the evil works. This is a reminder for those who would take heed.(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 2458
O you who believe, permission must be requested by your servants and the children who have not attained puberty (before entering your rooms). This is to be done in three instances - before the Dawn Prayer, at noon when you change your clothes to rest, and after the Night Prayer. These are three private times for you. At other times, it is not wrong for you or them to mingle with one another. GOD thus clarifies the revelations for you. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise. -
Are we 100% positive that wusta means the best and not center or middle ? ? ? ,because now that I THINK OF IT AGAIN,I found somewhere that wusta meant center or more actually nearest the center,so if we take away the other 2(afternoon&Night) then that would mean 3 salat.IF the night/evening/sunset prayers all refer to the same time frame..
2238 Preserve/guard the salawaat (salaats), and the wusta (center/middle) salat, and stand devoutly for God.
O you who believe, when the Salat is announced on the day of congregation, you shall hasten to the commemoration of God, and drop all business. This is better for you, if you only knew.
Once the salat is completed, you may spread through the land to seek God's bounties, and continue to remember God frequently, that you may succeed." 629-10
Surah 629-10 speaks of a Salat that falls during business hours this can only be referring to Salat Al-Wusta..as Fajr and Isha fall before or after most business hrs.
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Brother JHamza
It can also mean (among you) which clearly leads to a choice based on calculating an average hence the centre is the most appropriate choice, so I could not buy the other brother comment regarding salat and I need to do more work to see the context of all verses posted, possibly your help will be appreciated
peace to all
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Im still not convinced about 3 salat,thought I was but nope..
Also didnt you mention earlier something about a voluntary salat,I dont think there is one..
Some people mistranslate 1779,this ayat never mentions salat,it does mention a time of VOLUNTARY meditation or reflection.See YA's translation its wrong,but RK's is closer to being correct.Wamina allayli fatahajjad bihi nafilatanlaka AAasa an yabAAathaka rabbuka maqaman mahmoodan
And pray in the small watches of the morning (it would be) an additional prayer (or spiritual profit) for thee soon will thy Lord raise thee to a Station of Praise and Glory!
During the night, you shall meditate for extra credit, that your Lord may raise you to an honorable rank.
Tahajjud MEDITATION Naw?fil ADDITIONAL..Notice that salat or dua is not used here..this is not referring to SALAT.
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Salam Brother Jhamza, all,
Im still not convinced about 3 salat,thought I was but nope..
Also didnt you mention earlier something about a voluntary salat,I dont think there is one..
Some people mistranslate 1779,this ayat never mentions salat,it does mention a time of VOLUNTARY meditation or reflection.See YA's translation its wrong,but RK's is closer to being correct.Wamina allayli fatahajjad bihi nafilatanlaka AAasa an yabAAathaka rabbuka maqaman mahmoodan
And pray in the small watches of the morning (it would be) an additional prayer (or spiritual profit) for thee soon will thy Lord raise thee to a Station of Praise and Glory!
uring the night, you shall meditate for extra credit, that your Lord may raise you to an honorable rank.
Tahajjud MEDITATION Naw?fil ADDITIONAL..Notice that salat or dua is not used here..this is not referring to SALAT.
It all depends on the reader understanding of "salat". I personally undestand it to be the rememberance of the All-Mighty as per the definition in the verse "wa aquim Al salat le dhikri" (and establish/perform al-salat to remember Me) when God the All-Mighty spoke to Moses. You can easily retrieve the number 5 salats in Quran if you go by that definition but also, as you can see in Quran, the more you remember and pray the better it is for your soul, that's why salat is considered to prevent you from al-fah'sha2 wa al-munkeer (the sins and wrong doing) as per the Quran and only "ulu al-albab" (those with knowledge) undestand it and do it. My point is it is very sad to see in this forum people suggesting to others to "reduce" their salat to 3 or 2, not knowing that in fact they are inciting people to spend less time to the rememberance of God the All-Mighty by means of salat. It is really sad when we know how the wisdom in Quran reminds us and tells us "2aray'tta allathi yan'ha 3ab'dan idha sala" (did you see him who prevents someone from doing the salat). Instead of encouraging each other to more remembrance of the All-Mighty and even going beyond this number "5" that everybody is obssessed with, we are telling people no 3 is enough or 2 is even better!!! I seriously believe sometimes our members do not realize the consequences of their reasoning in terms of action.
May God the All-Mighty have a mercy on us.
Please no flame or shooting -) I am just sharing my understanding. And God the All-Mighty knows best.
Peace. Myr. -
Salam Ahmedbahgat, all,
From what I've read in two translations of 20130 we are commanded to do salaat at dawn, noon, afternoon, evening, and night. Notice that this ayat does not say the night prayer is voluntary. I recall a voluntary night meditation mentioned in the Koran though.
Does anyone here have to do salaat while at work? How does that go?
....fridays to do the gathering Salata hpwever I haven't found a mosque that satisfies me with what they say inside to do the salat with them, I just don't want it to look like someting I have to do while inside me can see their flaw in most of what they say, so I pray Zohr instead on fridays
at work they also know that i fight the enemy of Islam online and some of them even watch my movies and they love it despite the rated material or langugae that can be used in'm, Alhamdullelah I have total freedom at work
peace
In my hometown, I tried to change the habits of the local mosque by trying to spread the true message with Allah al-kabir and asking them to focus on God and the Quran and not Mohamed and ahadeeths etc. but the battle turned so harsh that I ended up in a miserable situation so after almost a year, I gave up, and decided to relocate 3000 miles from my corporate job to join a small group of true monotheists believers, and by the grace of the All-Mighty, I can pray with few Brothers and Sisters, I give khutbah once a month on the wisdom in Quran and the merit of praising and thanking the All-Mighty, and of course, I pray with no head covering. Praises and thanks to the All-Mighty, I have no problem to leave my office to perform my salat and when I am caught in a meeting or urgent situation, I perform the salat in my mind (performing the rakaa in my mind but not with my body if I am sitting or standing only). May God the All-Mighty make our struggle easy on us and smooth-). Peace. Myr.
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Salaams Myr(bro or Sis?),
Yes I am aware what salat means..I just see 5 times where some see 3 or 2..Not flaming here D
Salam Brother Jhamza, all,
Im still not convinced about 3 salat,thought I was but nope..
Also didnt you mention earlier something about a voluntary salat,I dont think there is one..
Some people mistranslate 1779,this ayat never mentions salat,it does mention a time of VOLUNTARY meditation or reflection.See YA's translation its wrong,but RK's is closer to being correct.Wamina allayli fatahajjad bihi nafilatanlaka AAasa an yabAAathaka rabbuka maqaman mahmoodan
And pray in the small watches of the morning (it would be) an additional prayer (or spiritual profit) for thee soon will thy Lord raise thee to a Station of Praise and Glory!
During the night, you shall meditate for extra credit, that your Lord may raise you to an honorable rank.
Tahajjud MEDITATION Naw?fil ADDITIONAL..Notice that salat or dua is not used here..this is not referring to SALAT.
It all depends on the reader understanding of "salat". I personally undestand it to be the rememberance of the All-Mighty as per the definition in the verse "wa aquim Al salat le dhikri" (and establish/perform al-salat to remember Me) when God the All-Mighty spoke to Moses. You can easily retrieve the number 5 salats in Quran if you go by that definition but also, as you can see in Quran, the more you remember and pray the better it is for your soul, that's why salat is considered to prevent you from al-fah'sha2 wa al-munkeer (the sins and wrong doing) as per the Quran and only "ulu al-albab" (those with knowledge) undestand it and do it. My point is it is very sad to see in this forum people suggesting to others to "reduce" their salat to 3 or 2, not knowing that in fact they are inciting people to spend less time to the rememberance of God the All-Mighty by means of salat. It is really sad when we know how the wisdom in Quran reminds us and tells us "2aray'tta allathi yan'ha 3ab'dan idha sala" (did you see him who prevents someone from doing the salat). Instead of encouraging each other to more remembrance of the All-Mighty and even going beyond this number "5" that everybody is obssessed with, we are telling people no 3 is enough or 2 is even better!!! I seriously believe sometimes our members do not realize the consequences of their reasoning in terms of action.
May God the All-Mighty have a mercy on us.
Please no flame or shooting -) I am just sharing my understanding. And God the All-Mighty knows best.
Peace. Myr. -
Salaams Myr(bro or Sis?),
......
Not flaming here DI thought my own picture appearing everytime next to my messages posted on this forum would shed light on my gender-) but it does not seem working-).
Myr. is a short name for Myriam (French version for Miriam; sister of Moses-)). Peace. Myr.
Salaams myr,
LOL sorry sis..I didnt really pay attention to the pic and besides sometimes people put pix of other people on there..Im not really a lion either...lol j/p.. wink
I love that name Myriam.As for the mathematical issue of salaat,I dont buy it yet..And I am not brave enough to say that some of the Quran in surah 9 was added either,when Allah says the Quran would be protected unlike earlier revelations were..But I STILL SEE 5 times in the Quran for salaat..But I use my own outline based on Quranic surahs..I posted it under another thread on http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5185
Peace. -
Salaams Myr(bro or Sis?),
......Salaams myr,
LOL sorry sis..I didnt really pay attention to the pic and besides sometimes people put pix of other people on there..Im not really a lion either...lol j/p.. wink
I love that name Myriam.Peace.
No problem Brother. I understand.
For maths, leave it to the All-Mighty and ask HIM to always show you HIS signs and guide us. For me, even with a degree in maths, it took me a while to see things by the grace of the All-Mighty. So you are still my Brother-). Peace. Myr.
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As Salaamu Alaykum to all the Brothers and Sisters
I want to update every one here that I posted in this forum
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6028.0
evidence from the Holy Qur'aan that REFUTES/EXPOSES the false "3 Salaat Theory". It is very clear that Allah autorized 5 Salaat and not 3. Anybody here can also examine the evidence at my site as well
http//www.freewebs.com/tawhiyd/3salaattheoryexposed.htm
Salaam