How do we know that Iblis and Satan are the same?
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Peace be upon you,
"iblis" is a mind state and "shayteen" are the thoughts/emotions that manifest from this mind state.
There is no "devil" out there.
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Salaams,
idolfree said"There is no "devil" out there."
absolutely!
And its only humans that do devilish acts now and then.
Salaams All.
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Peace All,
I agree with Kyle and mz. Iblis only exists as thought in the human mind. It is the 'yang' of free will. In simplest terms, iblis=ego, and sha'ya'teen(plural)=all manifestations of ego. Hence, the understanding that believers cannot be 'touched' by iblis, since believers are in a state of detachment from ego. That's what submission is all about. This is also why all of nature is unaffected by iblis. Nature is in a constant state of submission, ie, no choice.
Peace,
Tay -
I wonder tay how this ego of a shaitan has progny?
what can you tell us mate?
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Also Tay, I wonder how the ego sees us? lol
peace
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And please Tay
can you give me any insights on how Allah will fill the Hell by the ego?
thanks
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Hello all
Many in here thinks they are muslims and Quran followers and promote ideas WITHOUT PROVIDING any single proof to support intellectully their claims
they say Iblis is an ego and never been a real entity, then I ask them where is your proofs?, well they only bring in the tabke what their hearts and minds feel "it sounds to me like that feel good religion they made to themselves".
they come here slamming 1400 years of history based on, it is made by the sunni sect and it must be wrong, well, I tell them bad luck, because even if I agree that the sunni are confused, they are far less confused than the ironic ideas I see here, it does not mean because they are sunni and confused that everything they believe in is wrong
well let's put the sunni aside as I have never been one and my belief is purley based on the ARABIC QURAN all my life, hence what I believe in is what suppose Allah said Himself in Arabic inside the Quran,
therefore for all the suppoeters of Iblis = Ego, please explain to us with some compelling evidences how come the following verses are stated by Allah
74- But not Iblis he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers.
75- He said O Iblis! what prevented you that you should do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?
76- He said I am better than he; Thou hast created me of fire, and him Thou didst create of dust.
(74)
(75)
(76)
-> verse 74- "But not Iblis he was proud and he was one of the unbelievers.", well, how on earth and ego is an unbeliever?
-> verse 75- "He said O Iblis! what prevented you that you should do obeisance to him whom I created with My two hands? Are you proud or are you of the exalted ones?, again and please explain to a dumb person like me, how on earth an ego disobeys?
-> verse 76- "He said I am better than he; Thou hast created me of fire, and him Thou didst create of dust.", well, do you have an answer from the Quran that tells us the ego is something that we can compare with humans?
see, from only 3 verses there are many clear evidences that Iblis is not what others says "ego", yes He has plenty of ego but he can't be th ego itself that will be thrown in hell and has progny
peace
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And could you tell how big the Hell is?
Anwar Azim
And please Tay
can you give me any insights on how Allah will fill the Hell by the ego?
thanks
Yes, ity is very big , from the Quran it seems it will always ask for more resident here is the verse
On the day that We will say to hell Are you filled up? And it will say Are there any more?
(30)
Verse 5030 tells me that Allah will ask Hell if she is full and she will answer is there any more.
this tells me that it is really big hence it will never be full and will always welcome more residents
may me and you avoid it and prosper
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Peace Ahmed,
It sounds like your feathers got a bit ruffled, bro. Relax.
Before accusing people of promoting "ideas WITHOUT PROVIDING any single proof to support intellectully their claims", I'd suggest trying the "SEARCH" button, as this topic has been thoroughly exhausted with plenty of proofs.In the meantime, how about we give Arnaab back his/her thread and just answer the question posed?
Peace,
Tay -
Peace Ahmed,
If I sensed a sincere interest, I would gladly go down the arduous path of explaining my opinions to you. However, it seems you're being a bit sarcastic. Let's save ourselves the trouble and agree to disagree from the get-go.
Peace,
TayPeace tay,
no I'm not sracastic as I can backup my claims with verses from the Quran that can talk about Iblis clearly as an entity, what I will do is this I will not manipulate the clear arabic meanings as simple as this bro, you will have to go the lengthy path bro to prove your claim as I know there is no such thing in the Quran
you wanna call it sarcasim or whatever, I can't really help that as it is your perspective anyway as i have mine, what i can only say that I'm always sincere
cheers
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Peace Ahmed,
It sounds like your feathers got a bit ruffled, bro. Relax.
Before accusing people of promoting "ideas WITHOUT PROVIDING any single proof to support intellectully their claims", I'd suggest trying the "SEARCH" button, as this topic has been thoroughly exhausted with plenty of proofs.In the meantime, how about we give Arnaab back his/her thread and just answer the question posed?
Peace,
Taysorry bro I don't search the old topics as i have no time, this forum is to discuss whatever about the Quran anyway, it is not to re-read the old stuf again and again
hence if you have things to say to me that you consider old, i will consider them new and please do say it
peace
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Peace Ahmed,
Like I said, this is Arnaab's thread, and I answered his query. It would be nice if you would do the same so the different views are offered and one can make up their own mind.
I'm not sure why you're on this crusade against all things symbolic, but that's your perogative. My experience with you has been somewhat fruitful, but it has also been exhausting, since you don't seem to read the entire thread nor take a moment to let it soak in. This is evidenced by your comment
I wonder tay how this ego of a shaitan has progny?
You see, I never said, "ego of a shaitan".
Nevertheless, the sarcasm is apparent despite your denial. The smiley face you posted -----> lol indicates laughter.
Tell me, when does one laugh in a debate when there is no humor involved? Answer when one is being sarcastic.
So, if you want to really discuss this matter, then please start a new thread and I will gladly oblige.
Peace be upon you,
Tayp.s. If you don't search old threads, then you shouldn't make sweeping generalizations like, "they never bring proof". That was my point.
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Peace Ahmed,
peace Tay
Like I said, this is Arnaab's thread, and I answered his query. It would be nice if you would do the same so the different views are offered and one can make up their own mind.
I did the same bro and offered my backed up views, it is not my problem that I have not came with something new or sort of out of date, sorry
I'm not sure why you're on this crusade against all things symbolic, but that's your perogative.
well, it is not a crusade as I do it using the Quran alone as what you guys say surely will make the Quran a very silly book and you indeed are mocking the message without knowing hence and according to the Quran I have to refute your wrong claims "if they are wrong" using the Quran alone, this will make me feel peace as I always felt it for 40 years in my life, as well it enhances my knowledge about the Arabic Quran and sure within a few years it will be very solid inshaallah and this will make me able to refute anyone with wrong and unbacked claims against the Quran that may cause discord between the true believeres in the Arabic Quran regardless what sect or what religion that person belong to
and I do consider this period in my life as the period to gain nothing but experience to deal with all these sort of things that clearly put the Quran in the wrong and render it nothing but a confusing book and that is not good according to the Quran
My experience with you has been somewhat fruitful, but it has also been exhausting,
thanks, likewise as I said i learnt a lot from my replys to the others and picked up many things from the others, in fact i read my replys many times and always wonder how the hell I wrote this, regarding exhaustaion, well, imagine what it does to me then, especially i do it with many at once, it is damn exhausting but no retreat bro, this is what i decided that my life should be till I die. there is nothing better in this life than knowing the Quran really well and i'm still learning
since you don't seem to read the entire thread nor take a moment to let it soak in. This is evidenced by your comment
how did you judge that I did't read it?
let me say that you are wrong, I read it and could not see any merit to the claim that Iblis = Ego or previous allegations, hence I showed what the Quran clearly said about Iblis in just a few verses and logically speaking it can't be ego consequently I will keep refuting it using the Quran and leave the others who yet to make up their mind to decide
I wonder tay how this ego of a shaitan has progny?
You see, I never said, "ego of a shaitan".
sorry it is my lack of english, I meant the ego that represenetd by a shaitan in the Quran
Nevertheless, the sarcasm is apparent despite your denial. The smiley face you posted -----> lol indicates laughter.
you have to know that in religious debates, it is common knowledge to have a bit of sarcasim, hence I consider it part of it and is not sarcasim, but did i disrespect you?
Tell me, when does one laugh in a debate when there is no humor involved? Answer when one is being sarcastic.
well you are going outside the subject here, but to answer your question it is simply when someone says something laughable I laugh even if in a debate, and i do laugh and been honest and tell them , if you see any of my comments laughable, please laugh I will not be upset, laughter is the best medicine
So, if you want to really discuss this matter, then please start a new thread and I will gladly oblige.
ok I will but give me a couple of days please
Peace be upon you,
Taylikewise, cheers
p.s. If you don't search old threads, then you shouldn't make sweeping generalizations like, "they never bring proof". That was my point.
sorry I messed this PS
i don't think your statement that you made about ego = iblis requires me to go and search for what you or others stated, you came here added half a line of a comment that ego = iblis, I added mine with supporting verses from the Quran that it can't be, if you want to prove your concept then the onus is on you to bring whatever from the Quran in here so I can respond to it or just leave it till I start our thread in about 2 days, peace
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Peace Ahmed,
Here's what you said earlier
no I'm not sracastic
and here's what you said most recently
it is common knowledge to have a bit of sarcasim, hence I consider it part of it
Do you see why it's exhausting?
Peace,
Taymate if we gonna be that picky on the words then fine I'm really good at that
if you still think it is a deliberat sarcasim to mock you then I'm sorry again and I assure you it was not deliberate, however if you debate me more you will see that this is my style, and many known religious debaters use that style
it is commonly known for any debate if any party said something silly the other party MUST PICK ON IT, and I do it with fairness anyway, ie, the lil bit of sarcasm is both ways,
I'm working it the thread I will reasie for you bro, it will take me between 2 to 3 days
thanks
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
(214) And if they were alone with to their shayteen they said "Surely we are with you, but we are mocking ."
Have you ever been alone with little red men with pitch forks, talking to them? Anyone you know do that? But we do sit home and talk to the thoughts in our minds, the ones that say "go ahead, eat that chocolate cake even though you are overweight", or "go ahead and have sex with that girl, even though you are married to someone else", etc etc.
Why would you believe in some "devil" out there? How can you get past santa claus but get caught up here?
Do you know why the devil was painted as having horns and tail and hoofs? Because it is the ANIMAL NATURE within us that we are fighting against, the emotions, that which ANIMATES YOU. In the Bible Jesus said "get ye behind me satan". The emotions must follow the will, not lead.
So solomon showed us how to make the emotions follow and work for us.
But as has been said to you on several occasions, you are free to keep following the literal, unproveable path.
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
(214) And if they were alone with to their shayteen they said "Surely we are with you, but we are mocking ."
peace mate
214 for ,e is talking about the terrorists and tehir shayateen for me is their leaders in hiding
Have you ever been alone with little red men with pitch forks, talking to them?
no
Anyone you know do that? But we do sit home and talk to the thoughts in our minds, the ones that say "go ahead, eat that chocolate cake even though you are overweight", or "go ahead and have sex with that girl, even though you are married to someone else", etc etc.
no but I can hear them, the Quran told us we can 't see them but they can see us, now tell me how an ego sees?
Why would you believe in some "devil" out there? How can you get past santa claus but get caught up here?
I don;t belive there only some devil, rather heaps of them, and who is santa claus, is he a devil name?
Do you know why the devil was painted as having horns and tail and hoofs? Because it is the ANIMAL NATURE within us that we are fighting against, the emotions, that which ANIMATES YOU. In the Bible Jesus said "get ye behind me satan". The emotions must follow the will, not lead.
really?, anyway OI careless in how he looks because Allah told us we can't see them, but if I have a guess I reckon they are too ugly
So solomon showed us how to make the emotions follow and work for us.
really?, solomon didnlt show me anything, I also didn't see solomon, but let me ask you how did he show you?
But as has been said to you on several occasions, you are free to keep following the literal, unproveable path.
Haha, the literal now becomes unprovable, hence you suggest that the non literal is provable? that is funny mate please show me your proofs, but wait for my thread Tay and you are welcome to respond there
peace
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Peace be upon you Ahmed,
(214) And if they were alone with their shayteen they said "Surely we are with you, but we are mocking ."
peace mate
214 for ,e is talking about the terrorists and tehir shayateen for me is their leaders in hiding
Oh, I can see how that would be guidance for mankind , we all have terrorists that we are ALONE with, dont we?
idolfree1 wrote
Have you ever been alone with little red men with pitch forks, talking to them?no
Good, how about terrorists?
idolfree1 wrote
Anyone you know do that? But we do sit home and talk to the thoughts in our minds, the ones that say "go ahead, eat that chocolate cake even though you are overweight", or "go ahead and have sex with that girl, even though you are married to someone else", etc etc.no but I can hear them, the Quran told us we can 't see them but they can see us, now tell me how an ego sees?
You see how that literal viewpoint stops you at every step? I guess when you figure out how a HEART has eyes, you will figure this part out, because it is not the eyes that are blind, its the heart, remember? The statement that they see us but we dont see them is to say they are hidden (jinn) and they effect us as if they see our every move.
idolfree1 wrote
Why would you believe in some "devil" out there? How can you get past santa claus but get caught up here?I don;t belive there only some devil, rather heaps of them, and who is santa claus, is he a devil name?
Yes, the devil is legions, one incorrect thought like literal interpretations for example leads to all kind of wrong ideas(legions).
idolfree1 wrote
Do you know why the devil was painted as having horns and tail and hoofs? Because it is the ANIMAL NATURE within us that we are fighting against, the emotions, that which ANIMATES YOU. In the Bible Jesus said "get ye behind me satan". The emotions must follow the will, not lead.really?, anyway OI careless in how he looks because Allah told us we can't see them, but if I have a guess I reckon they are too ugly
Ok
idolfree1 wrote
So solomon showed us how to make the emotions follow and work for us.really?, solomon didnlt show me anything, I also didn't see solomon, but let me ask you how did he show you?
Through the metaphor.
idolfree1 wrote
But as has been said to you on several occasions, you are free to keep following the literal, unproveable path.Haha, the literal now becomes unprovable, hence you suggest that the non literal is provable? that is funny mate please show me your proofs, but wait for my thread Tay and you are welcome to respond there
Let me know when its ready.