Koran: word of God or word of man ?
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Hi brother Saladin,
In those verses are story of those who blindly followed what they were ordered because they were certain that these commands were from God.
The point of the story is that we cannot follow something merely because we imagine it to be from god. We cannot follow the quran merely because we believe it to be from god. We must follow or reject the quran based on it's message alone.
Nadeem.
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Peace be upon you Nadeem,
Great reminder!
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Salaams,
Ahmed said
?unmatchable in its Arabic langugae use, this is clear as light for the whole Arab generations.?Just look at the whole Arab generations Br. They are still living in the past!Just look at their ways and their progress.
sorry bro, I donlt get you, what the status of the arabs in year 2005 has to do with the unmatchable Quran?
To me anyways they orn?t following it at all.
If you mean most mumans not sepcifically the arabs then I agree
You just have to look around the world to see who is , and who isn?t following it,
God Bless.
sure bro and very lil are following it
peace
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Hi brother Saladin,
In those verses are story of those who blindly followed what they were ordered because they were certain that these commands were from God.
7.28
And when they do some lewdness they say We found our fathers
doing it and Allah hath enjoined it on us. Say Allah, verily, enjoineth not
lewdness. Tell ye concerning Allah that which ye know not?7.29
Say My Lord enjoineth justice. And set your faces, upright (toward Him)
at every place of worship and call upon Him, making religion pure for
Him (only). As He brought you into being, so return ye (unto Him).salam bro .
what these verses are saying is that we must follow God instead of following our ancestors.The point of the story is that we cannot follow something merely because we imagine it to be from god. We cannot follow the quran merely because we believe it to be from god. We must follow or reject the quran based on it's message alone.
Quran is the Furqan ,the Criterion . the Criterion cannot be rejected , but other things can be rejected ,judging by the Criterion(Quran).
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Hi all,
Hi brother Saladin,
In those verses are story of those who blindly followed what they were ordered because they were certain that these commands were from God.
7.28
And when they do some lewdness they say We found our fathers
doing it and Allah hath enjoined it on us. Say Allah, verily, enjoineth not
lewdness. Tell ye concerning Allah that which ye know not?7.29
Say My Lord enjoineth justice. And set your faces, upright (toward Him)
at every place of worship and call upon Him, making religion pure for
Him (only). As He brought you into being, so return ye (unto Him).
salam bro .
what these verses are saying is that we must follow God instead of following our ancestors.In my opinion, these verses mean that we are not to follow anything blindly just becoz our forefathers did. We should think, consider and understand the sense behind such practices and only when we understand/realise it as correct, should we follow it. Coz each of us are responsible and accountable for our own actions to God, one day. And when we seek truth with sincerity, God helps us find it. That is how we obey God.
Peace!
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Hi all,
Hi brother Saladin,
In those verses are story of those who blindly followed what they were ordered because they were certain that these commands were from God.
7.28
And when they do some lewdness they say We found our fathers
doing it and Allah hath enjoined it on us. Say Allah, verily, enjoineth not
lewdness. Tell ye concerning Allah that which ye know not?7.29
Say My Lord enjoineth justice. And set your faces, upright (toward Him)
at every place of worship and call upon Him, making religion pure for
Him (only). As He brought you into being, so return ye (unto Him).
salam bro .
what these verses are saying is that we must follow God instead of following our ancestors.In my opinion, these verses mean that we are not to follow anything blindly just becoz our forefathers did. We should think, consider and understand the sense behind such practices and only when we understand/realise it as correct, should we follow it. Coz each of us are responsible and accountable for our own actions to God, one day. And when we seek truth with sincerity, God helps us find it. That is how we obey God.
Peace!
very clear indeed, they sound to me in arabic exactly as you said it in english
coincidence?, others may think so lol
peace
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Hi brothers and sisters,
Dear Brother Saladin,
7.28
And when they do some lewdness they say We found our fathers
doing it and Allah hath enjoined it on us. Say Allah, verily, enjoineth not
lewdness. Tell ye concerning Allah that which ye know not?"Allah hath enjoined it on us" - That's the delusion the kafirs had, and that's the delusion so many believers have.
I'm not saying that they were wrong or right, but they were certain, and that certainty made them blind. The followers of god are not supposed to be blind.
"Doubt is not a pleasent condition, but certainty is absurd!" - Voltaire.
A criteria should be followed or rejected based on it's judgments, not the other way around. A judge should be followed because of his good judgments. But, the judgments should not be followed because of a good judge. That would be "Ad hominem".
Nadeem,
Nadeem. -
"Allah hath enjoined it on us" - That's the delusion the kafirs had, and that's the delusion so many believers have.
salam brother Nadeem.
they were following something never revealed by Allah . they were attributing things to Allah that Allah enjoined lewdness . how can believers be deluded in the same way ? how can believers do such a thing ? -
Hi Brother Saladin,
You're right. They were indeed following evil, somethin god would never reveal. But the question is, why did they follow evil? What duped them?
Because they thought they were following god. They were so certain and so sure that this was the right thing to do because it was from god.
This example shows how destructive and deceiving this delusion can be.
If you look closely, you'll recognize "ad hominem" in even this, or maybe "Ad deos".
And brother, do you see what ayat 728 emphasizes?
The quran directly critisizes their excuse for believing and acting the way they did."god said so" - It's this excuse which is bad and invalid and god is pointing this out.
Now, would you really use this same excuse?
I won't.
Nadeem.
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And brother, do you see what ayat 728 emphasizes?
The quran directly critisizes their excuse for believing and acting the way they did."god said so" - It's this excuse which is bad and invalid and god is pointing this out.
Now, would you really use this same excuse?
I won't.
salam.
i will say "God said so" ,with making reference to the verses of the Koran ,not by making reference to my ancestors .and dear brother , u dont really sound like a 15 years old to me . )
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hi dear brother Saladin,
i will say "God said so" ,with making reference to the verses of the Koran ,not by making reference to my ancestors .
The "ancestor"-part was an additional and seperate yet an equally false excuse. It was not used as a reference in the "god said it" fallacy.
The "ancestor" flaw has been critisized by the quran in another ayat asking "What if they knew not and were not guided?", in this ayat however, the quran is asking "What if you know not and are not guided?"
That's some question, and I feel that in this way the quran is encouraging us to ask ourselves this very question, unless we want to end up like the kafirs. Deluded.
But brother, don't you see that if you make this same mistake, even if you refer to the quran,your faith would be as fallacious as the kafirs? These are harsh words and I type slowly while claiming this, I don't wan't to hurt you or say bad things about you. Your a good an honest brother as far as I've read your posts. But if you do make the same mistake, you and the kafir each will believe they're following the "noor", but both are blind. Can a blind man see the "noor"?
And it really doesn't matter what you believe in, it's how you believe. You do not believe in what the kafirs believe, I'm sure of that, but you must also remember not to believe how the kafirs believed. There's a world of significance and difference.
I hope I did not offend you. It was never my intention.
And, I'm not saying that you should reject that the quran is from god, but that you shouldn't take that belief as the "Deciding point". Don't be too sure. Remember what Voltaire said, and what the quran says "You were not given knowledge except little".
and dear brother , u dont really sound like a 15 years old to me .
Thank you dear brother -)
Now I'm thinking "What a bad timing I have." . Here you are saying good things about me, and I'm critisizing your faith.
I appreciate your post and knowledge, and the links you provide to Dr. M. Asadis works. Thanks -)
Happy new year brother -)
Nadeem.
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salam.
But brother, don't you see that if you make this same mistake, even if you refer to the quran,your faith would be as fallacious as the kafirs? These are harsh words and I type slowly while claiming this, I don't wan't to hurt you or say bad things about you. Your a good an honest brother as far as I've read your posts. But if you do make the same mistake, you and the kafir each will believe they're following the "noor", but both are blind. Can a blind man see the "noor"?
i m not sure if i understand what u r saying . can u give me any example ? what mistake can i make in refering to the Koran .
I hope I did not offend you. It was never my intention.
no offence taken .
And, I'm not saying that you should reject that the quran is from god, but that you shouldn't take that belief as the "Deciding point". Don't be too sure. Remember what Voltaire said, and what the quran says "You were not given knowledge except little".
i m sure about Koran being from God , why should i be not 'too sure'? can u give me any examples ?
I appreciate your post and knowledge, and the links you provide to Dr. M. Asadis works.
Happy new year brother
my knowledge on many topics in the Koran is very limited ,there are many topics that i m not sure of , or havent yet properly studied . but about Koran being from God , i m very certain .
and i just dig Asadi's stuff .happy new year to you and everyone too !
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The answer to the 'topic title' can be found in the Quran itself..
069.040-46
That this is verily the word of an honoured messenger;
It is not the word of a poet little it is ye believe!
Nor is it the word of a soothsayer little admonition it is ye receive.
a Message sent down from the Lord of the Worlds.
And if the messenger were to invent any sayings in Our name,
We should certainly seize him by his right hand,
And We should certainly then cut off the artery of his heart
Nor could any of you withhold him (from Our wrath).My understanding of the above passage is
Quran = Word of an honoured messenger (The Revelation Bearer / Archangel Gabriel / Djibril) and a message / revelation from God)