Prophet Mohammed
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Sorry bro to make you angry regarding my comment, I meant your actions is hypocryte to say that a non muslim understands Islam far better than any muslim you have met, it is clear that you are taking him as "Awliaa" against the muslims, the
- On the internet, no one can take anyone as awliyaa.
Ok I understand now, so on the internet it is ok to degrade the Muslims by saying a non muslim understands the Quran better than them?, see I mean the Muslims on FM, not the Muslims in Saudi Arabia
- According to al-quraan, from Kyle's understanding of al-quraan, he's more of a believer than those who think it's a historical text.
Would that be an assumption or a fact?
Does he fast Ramadan?
Does he believe in Hell?
It seems Kyle has two chaps to speak for him, well, he can join too if he wishes
- Your definition of muslim proves your lack of reading of al-quraan itself. I imagine you've been using al-quraan for your oft-talked-about debates but that's all. Your research into its teachings is shallow, im sorry to say.
Now, that is really a laugh and again total misleading to others, I responded to it many times with supporting verses from the Haqq and you provided none to support your wrong understanding that Islam means peace, here is my evidences again
This comment is to refute the wrong allegations regarding ?Muslim? and ?Mumin? by some Muslims
The words means literally the following
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?S L M? , to surrender(submit) or to greet, Both meanings are common and a variety of words can be driven out of it
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?A M N?, to believe or to secure, and again both meanings are common and many words can extracted from it
In the religion of Islam however, both words were used MOST of the times to express the first meaning mentioned
?And Musa said O my people! if you believe in Allah, then rely on Him (alone) if you submit (to Allah).?
(84)
-> Obviously Moses is telling the Jews, to be submitters they need to rely on Allah AFTER they BELIEVED, therefore ?Muslimeen? can not be the same as ?Mumineen? unless the ?Mumineen? rely on Allah if they want have been ?Muslimeen? ie. ?Submitters?, the ultimate goal for all believers
In another location we see that Allah differentiated between the two PRESENT VERBS ?YuMin? and ?Uslim?
?The Arabs say We believe. Say You do not believe but say, We submit; and faith has not yet entered into your hearts; and if you obey Allah and His Messenger, He will not diminish aught of your deeds; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.?
(14)
-> Clear from the above that when the Arabs said ?We Believed? Allah is advising them to say ?We Submit? because it is a higher level than believing and is proper for a believer to rely on Allah and submit after he/she believed already, it is strange that some think the above verse means it is one or the other i.e. ?To Believe? or ?To Submit?, there is no way the verse means that, it actually means that you can?t be a submitter without being a believer.
-> We cam also see that ? ? which means ?To Submit? is a VERB and this should refute any ignorance suggesting that ?Islam? never appeared as a verb in the Quran. In fact it appeared as a verb numerous times as we will see below
?Saying exalt not yourselves against me and come to me in submission.?
(31)
-> In 2731 we see that the word ?Islam? was used as an adjective? to describe Solomon?s order to Sheba and her people to surrender to him, this verse can have double meanings, it can mean to surrender to him ?as in power? and it can also mean to ?surrender with him to Allah in Islam (submission)?, a perfectly put Arabic verse in the Quran by Allah
-> The verse below can be understood exactly as above
?He said O chiefs! which of you can bring to me her throne before they come to me in submission??
(3
-> To surrender to Solomon in power or to Surrender with Solomon to Allah in Islam (submission)
?And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our Allah and your Allah is One, and to Him do we submit.?
(46)
-> In 2946 we see that the ?already? believers should say to the people of the book THAT THEY BELIEVE in the one God, and TO HIM they submit, this is very important verse because IN Allah we believe, and ??, TO Allah we submit, CLEAR AS LIGHT ?Lahu Muslimoon?
111- ?And they say None shall enter the garden (or paradise) except he who is a Jew or a Christian. These are their vain desires. Say Bring your proof if you are truthful.?
112- ?Yes! whoever submits himself entirely to Allah and he is the doer of good (to others) he has his reward from his Lord, and there is no fear for him nor shall he grieve.?
(111)
(112)-> Here is another verse for the silly claim that the word ?Islam? was never mentioned as a verb, ironically the verse is talking about the three religions, the first two were mentioned as NOUNS and Islam was mentioned as a verb ? And they say None shall enter the garden (or paradise) except he who is a Jew or a Christian.?, then for Islam it was a verb to submit ? Yes! whoever submits himself entirely to Allah and he is the doer of good (to others) he has his reward from his Lord, and there is no fear for him nor shall he grieve.?, what more proofs than this that Islam is an action to submit?, not enough?, read further,
19- ?Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.?
20- ?But if they dispute with you, say I have submitted myself entirely to Allah and (so) every one who follows me; and say to those who have been given the Book and the unlearned people Do you submit yourselves? So if they submit then indeed they follow the right way; and if they turn back, then upon you is only the delivery of the message and Allah sees the servants.?
(19)
(20)-> Well, what can I say, in 319 we read ? Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam?, ie, Islam was used as a NOUN, then it was explained further as an action in 320 ? I have submitted myself entirely to Allah?, said again in a verb and it confirms that Mohammad was a true submitter, then the verse tells Mohammad to say this to all of us ? Do you submit yourselves??, again Islam was used as a verb, then if they execute that verb ?if they submit then indeed they follow the right way?, for the third time in one verse Islam was used as a verb to mean ?To Submit?
Let me go back to Solomon story to show you that the Queen of Sheba came to Solomon after she surrendered to his power, we will see that she also declared her submission TO Allah with Solomon
?It was said to her Enter the palace; but when she saw it she deemed it to be a great expanse of water, and bared her legs. He said Surely it is a palace made smooth with glass. She said My Lord! surely I have been unjust to myself, and I submit with Sulaiman to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.?
(44)
-> Again her Islam was expressed as a verb ? ?, therefore whatever Solomon was believing in she must has followed it because she submitted to his power first and came to him and when she arrived and was more stunned she declared HER SUBMISSION TO ALLAH AFTER ARRIVAL
83- ?Is it then other than Allah's religion that they seek (to follow), and to Him submits whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and to Him shall they be returned.?
84- ?Say We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.?
85- ?And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.?
(83)
(84)
(85)-> Another compelling verses that shows Deen Allah expressed in a verb ?Aslam? ?? ?to submit? by all creatures in the heaven and earth, these verses should also refute the ignorance suggesting that Islam means ?greeting with peace? and NOT ?To Submit to Allah? , because we read in 383 that all these creatures were either given the choice OR FORCED to ?Submit to Allah? and because Force is there then it has to be ?Submit? not ?Peace? ? ?, ie. ? and to Him submits whoever is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly?
?And who has a better religion than he who submits himself entirely to Allah? And he is the doer of good (to others) and follows the faith of Ibrahim, the upright one, and Allah took Ibrahim as a friend.?
(125)
-> Again Islam was used as a verb ? And who has a better religion than he who submits himself entirely to Allah??, and that is what Ibrahim did ? and follows the faith of Ibrahim, the upright one, and Allah took Ibrahim as a friend?, therefore Ibrahim was a true submitter in addition to a believer, all prophets were believers by fitra any way, and I guess all humans are born believers
?Surely We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judged (matters) for those who were Jews, and the masters of Divine knowledge and the doctors, because they were required to guard (part) of the Book of Allah, and they were witnesses thereof; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price for My communications; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the unbelievers.?
(44)
-> We read above the same verb ?To Submit? and the verse also confirms that the Nabyoon were Submitters ? We revealed the Taurat in which was guidance and light; with it the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah)?
?And return to your Lord time after time and submit to Him before there comes to you the punishment, then you shall not be helped.?
(54)
-> Again to be a Muslim, it was expressed in a verb? ?, ie, ? And return to your Lord time after time and submit to Him?, clearly the words TO HIM means that Islam is the action of submitting to Him after believing in Him.
?Say I am forbidden to serve those whom you call upon besides Allah when clear arguments have come to me from my Lord, and I am commanded that I should submit to the Lord of the worlds.?
(66)
-> Same said by the prophet that ? and I am commanded that I should submit to the Lord of the worlds.?, the verb ?Oslim? was used again ? ?
What a believer ?Mumin? ?Not a Submitter? should believe ? in ?after The Quran message was sent??, the Quran in numerous locations told us what we should believe in as believers ?Mumineen?, I found one verse with all what the ones who want to call themselves ?Mumineen? should believe in ?as the basics of that belief?
?O you who believe! believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book which He has revealed to His Messenger and the Book which He revealed before; and whoever disbelieves in Allah and His angels and His messengers and the last day, he indeed strays off into a remote error.?
(136)
Can you understand it bro, or you want me to explain it to you?
I think the Pope could explain it better. At least he'd be politically correct.
Well, if the pope wants to be politically correct then he failed to fear no one but Allah, and According to the Haqq I have to fear no one but Allah, therefore I don?t believe in this politically correct motion as we don?t really talk politics here, lol
, possibly you have another understanding to it as you always do with most words in the Quran and surely what you are doing is confusing your brothers and sisters with complete arrogance then you come and insult all of us the muslims in here and say Kyle "the non muslim" understands Islam better than any muslim you met, IRONICALLY YOU PUT THIS SILLY STATEMENT ON A FORUM THAT SUPPOSE TO BE PROMOTING ISLAM
I have an understanding of the ayaat which I have verified against the ayaat. Of course I am fallible, but only if the ayaat themselves deem it so. 'My uncle uses it that way' isn't proof to me, sorry.
No worry, we agree to disagree
And once again, Kyle is a believer in the totality of the book. You need to learn from him.
That is what I?m talking about, let him speak for himself
Any way bro according to the above verses and as a brother to you I ask you to repent to Allah as per 4146, as well sorry to call you hypocrite, i was only delivering 4144-145 above to you
Are you asking me in the same tone of voice as those blokes on the street prophecising judgement day ? 'Repent..the hour is at haaaaand' ?! That'll have a scarier effect, I grant you.
WHAT? I never met anyone in the streets talking Judgment Day, it seems you did, wow.
Now I decided to distant myself from you as a muslim until you repent
LOL, so you only talk to Muslims? What happened to all the christians you've been bragging about?
See, you got it wrong, I decided to do that as a matter of respect to the new relationship that just started and I just don?t want to go way too wrong as it started to happen, therefore I decided to act as a real muslim and leave the matter between us to Allah,
Regarding my bragging about my affairs outside FM, I think I never bragged about it shock , I only shared a few movies with a few guys,
Regarding what happened with them, I?m sorry it is confidential and I can?t tell you
And good, distance yourself. That will save you from clarifying from your true salaat views. I guessed you wouldn't answer that directly anyway.
Not sure if you asked me about Salat, as I only skim quick through you comments to be honest, I used to read your comments with care before, but honestly bro not any more, it just happened by itself, I read the ones that I respond too thoroughly though, like this one, so you are welcome to raise the issue on a new thread instead of it being buried between the comments somewhere
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Question to Joe (as a moderator in this thread)
Is it all right for Ahmed to call people hypocrites and non-muslims or can you get him banned for saying this?
lol Mquran
do you play chess bro?, you have just issued a checkmate to me, lol
but hey bro, don't ever under estimate me, I play chess for exactly 31 years lol
now it my turn bro
checkmate
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Hello Kyle
Some members are making a fuss about me calling you non muslim, did it offend you bro?
i thought I asked you before if you are a mulsim and you said no as you don't follow any organised religion, but the Quran "The Haqq" says Islam is a religion that must be organised and united, therfore you are breaking the same book you claim to follow, so please tell me if you consider yourself a Muslim, can you qualify it by the Quran and if you do I will owe you a thousand appologies
Also remember bro that you accused me of being a sunni cult follower and even you said, you will not discuss matters with me due to that assumption by you, did it offend me I? BIG NO
well, would you consider calling me a sunni cult follower is a name calling like calling you a non muslim? using the logic of those members making a fuss about it
please clarify
thanks
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Ok I understand now, so on the internet it is ok to degrade the Muslims by saying a non muslim understands the Quran better than them?, see I mean the Muslims on FM, not the Muslims in Saudi Arabia
False. You misunderstood again. I'm saying, if you take someone to be your awliyaa here, its not going to do you much good if someone attacks you and he's across globe. Al-islaam functions in reality totally.
Would that be an assumption or a fact?
Does he fast Ramadan?
Does he believe in Hell?
It seems Kyle has two chaps to speak for him, well, he can join too if he wishes
All irrelevant to determine if he's a MUSLIM. A muslim is one who establishes as-salaat and renders az-zakaat.
The words means literally the following
- S L M , to surrender(submit) or to greet, Both meanings are common and a variety of words can be driven out of it
In the religion of Islam however, both words were used MOST of the times to express the first meaning mentioned
Good, so now its MOST times. Good shift. What does it mean in other than the most times?
Well, if the pope wants to be politically correct then he failed to fear no one but Allah, and According to the Haqq I have to fear no one but Allah, therefore I dont believe in this politically correct motion as we dont really talk politics here,
You think speaking courteously is being political? How sad.
See, you got it wrong, I decided to do that as a matter of respect to the new relationship that just started and I just dont want to go way too wrong as it started to happen, therefore I decided to act as a real muslim and leave the matter between us to Allah,
LOL, after calling me a hypocrite, you want to 'respect a new relationship bla bla bla'. Some thinking you got there.
Not sure if you asked me about Salat, as I only skim quick through you comments to be honest, I used to read your comments with care before, but honestly bro not any more, it just happened by itself, I read the ones that I respond too thoroughly though, like this one, so you are welcome to raise the issue on a new thread instead of it being buried between the comments
Heads up, there's a whole new thread, just for you.
do you play chess bro?, you have just issued a checkmate to me,
but hey bro, don't ever under estimate me, I play chess for exactly 31 years
now it my turn bro
checkmateWell, you studied al-quraan for 20 years and you still think nasaara are christians so I really wouldnt think much of your chess skills either.
- S L M , to surrender(submit) or to greet, Both meanings are common and a variety of words can be driven out of it
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MQuran
I responded to your thread but that is about it really, I don't feel like discussing the Quran with you any more unless there will be fair judges that me and you obey, no offence though
thanks
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Mquran
Agreed. There is one difference though. To my recollection, I never spoke in Ahmed-ian tones, words like
- you're ABSOLUTELY wrong
- you're 500% wrong
- my uncle the arab knows better
- my AUNTIE the arab knows better
- you're a hypocrite (but is scared to say so directly)
- you really agree with me but your ego stops you from saying so
Lol, yes. True. And as you can see I am starting to lose my patience here as well at the moment and should better remind me myself to humble my language.
What happened was, the quran-only approach was presented. I was in shock, I researched and I struggled. Ahmed's words shows that he's afraid to confront the reality of the Quran.
Very true. But I do recall times when I was more afraid of that reality myself. And maybe the others` state of being afraid is the state where you?ve been once in shock yourself.
Hey, let?s just present the message over and over ..... second yawn.
No reason to let emotions develop.
We know best ourselves where we did our job and attained security in our virewpoint and where we still need to research.Ahmed
- ?S L M? , to surrender(submit) or to greet, Both meanings are common and a variety of words can be driven out of it
May I ask you, what an inconsistent approach is that ??
First you tell me (wrongly)The root method is flawed and can't apply to all words
and now you suddenly come up with supposed root meanings yourself ??
Can you please agree on a method of argumentation?Do not know what you mean really, I agree that the word Islam is the same wazn as Islah, so what?, i mean what is the point?, "Islah" means "Fixing" Islam means "Submission"
Since you still don?t get it
The quranic Arabic language is a consistent system that follows its own grammatic patterns. All these patterns have a certain meaning.
The relationship between islah and salah is such a pattern with meaning. And the same pattern is applied to islam and salam.
And you tell me there?s no relationship between islam and salam and the root method is flawed????
That?s ridiculous!
What is worse
Suddenly you come up with a supposed root of both by yourself.Ok now I got you, see the confusion arose from writing arabic words with english letters, a very flawed method for sure
Yes it is. But not everyone has the technical possibilities on her present computer as you have.
And the method would be no problem if you would be a little bit more into consistent relationships of quranic grammar. uh.
You would have got my point in a second.Haha nice try dear sis, i will do it when you know how to write in arabic
Yep, try to ridicule me, good tactic.
Apparently I do know how to read and write Arabic. I just do not have the facilities for it here on my present computer.And what the gramatical construction has to do with the meanings? never heard in arabic that there are relation really, each word in arabic is independent regardless if it share the root with zillion other words or not
You should talk to a serious Arabic linguits. Even the most traditional one will tell you that different grammatical patterns from one root do form meanings and have a lot to do with relations between words!!
This is pretty common knowledge as well.Well, I guess you too assume a lot
Well, unfortunately we all do at times and I am sorry for every time I do.
But I am assuming nothing when I say that you have no right to call Kyle a k?fir and that your understanding in this respect is really flawed.
Sometimes things are just very sure and plain and simple.well you may need to study The Quran again, but I'm sorry I have no time to show it to you for the time being
I come to assume that I studied the qur'?n for much longer and much more earnestly then you, when reading those comments.
Now THAT was an assumption.
But the best response you could get to your assumption.peace
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Ahmed
Leyla
- ?S L M? , to surrender(submit) or to greet, Both meanings are common and a variety of words can be driven out of it
May I ask you, what an inconsistent approach is that ??
First you tell me (wrongly)The root method is flawed and can't apply to all words
Well, after I answer your question, I will need to ask you a question
The approach was merely to show the meaning of the root for the root method addicts
Now can you tell me please, why you say my approach is inconsistent?
and now you suddenly come up with supposed root meanings yourself ??
Can you please agree on a method of argumentation?I never used the root to explain the meaning of any Arabic word in my life, If you read the rest of my comment you will see that I only used the verses of the Quran to get the meanings, , I only posted the root meanings for the Arabic language novices as being fair, i.e., as well I included the argument or the supporters of the root method as well
It seems you didn't read the many verses I posted as you only select that comment to respond too, looks very funny by you indeed lol , as if you did, then why you did not respond to it? Do you care to educate us using the verses I posted?
Do not know what you mean really, I agree that the word Islam is the same wazn as Islah, so what?, I mean what is the point?, "Islah" means "Fixing" Islam means "Submission"
Since you still don?t get it
The quranic Arabic language is a consistent system that follows its own grammatical patterns. All these patterns have a certain meaning.
The relationship between islah and salah is such a pattern with meaning. And the same pattern is applied to islam and salam.
And you tell me there?s no relationship between islam and salam and the root method is flawed????
That?s ridiculous!
What is worse
Suddenly you come up with a supposed root of both by yourself.lol try again
Ok now I got you, see the confusion arose from writing Arabic words with english letters, a very flawed method for sure
Yes it is. But not everyone has the technical possibilities on her present computer as you have.
shock what a computer technical possibilities has to do with it?
I thought you know how to copy and paste?, I can show you how
And the method would be no problem if you would be a little bit more into consistent relationships of quranic grammar. uh.
You would have got my point in a second.Sorry I don't get it, and thanks I don't want to get it so you donlt need to try for the third time.
Haha nice try dear sis, I will do it when you know how to write in Arabic
Yep, try to ridicule me, good tactic.
Apparently I do know how to read and write Arabic. I just do not have the facilities for it here on my present computer.Good for you, then all you need that I show you how to copy and paste and way you go with Arabic typing on this forum
And what the gramatical construction has to do with the meanings? never heard in Arabic that there are relation really, each word in Arabic is independent regardless if it share the root with zillion other words or not
You should talk to a serious Arabic linguits.
Sure, I will check in the Yellow Pages
Even the most traditional one will tell you that different grammatical patterns from one root do form meanings and have a lot to do with relations between words!!
well if they told you so, the ones I dealt with didn't tell me as such, so I guess you call yours and I call mine and we put them together, do you reckon this should be a good solution?
This is pretty common knowledge as well.
Let me ask you first?
Your common, or my common , or the common sense?
Well, I guess you too assume a lot
Well, unfortunately we all do at times and I am sorry for every time I do.
Sure I'm sorry too, do you think the many scientists should say sorry as well about the many wrong assumptions they did?, I think even Einstien had a blunder
Do you know that in math we also assume too many things when we try to solve a problem?, so you think sorrow will be required by us? But to whom?, I don?t really know. Possibly to the examiner?
But I am assuming nothing when I say that you have no right to call Kyle a k?fir and that your understanding in this respect is really flawed.
Back to Kyle again, well, I?m sorry I have a headache and I can only talk with Kyle about this subject to prevent my headache from oscillating, Cough, Cough
Sometimes things are just very sure and plain and simple.
?Sometimes things? shock I don't know what you mean, sounds too vague to me.
well you may need to study The Quran again, but I'm sorry I have no time to show it to you for the time being
I come to assume that I studied the qur'?n for much longer and much more earnestly then you, when reading those comments.
Now THAT was an assumption.
But the best response you could get to your assumption.I could not make any sense from the above comment, but don?t worry about it, I don?t need to know what you mean
Thank you
peace
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Peace
Well, I don?t respond to your post of verses because it has no relevance to what I was trying to tell you.
E.g. you post verses to prove that it is wrong that isl?m never appeared as a verb in the qur'?n.
However, I never claimed that there is no verb correspoding to isl?m.
So, how should I respond to something like that?
It has nothing to do with what I was talking about.try again
No, I won?t. If you can?t see the function of consistent grammatical patterns, I can?t help. I would still ask you to turn to an Arabic linguist though because, as I said, even the most traditional one will tell you that consistent grammatical patterns create relations among Arabic words from the same roots.
This is even more true if you take it away from established linguistics and relate it directly to the qur'?n.what a computer technical possibilities has to do with it?
I thought you know how to copy and paste?, I can show you how
Don?t be silly. No one mentioned the words salah and islah in Arabic script here before me so I could not copy and paste them for you. could have gone on a journey through the internet to find them but since I only wanted to give you a hint about the relation between sal?m and isl?m there was no need to do so.
Sure I'm sorry too, do you think the many scientists should say sorry as well about the many wrong assumptions they did?, I think even Einstien had a blunder
Einstein was always willing to reform his thinking when presented with sufficient proof. So am I. Apparently, you are not. You are clinging to, as mquran rightfully says, what your Arab uncles say.
The qur#?n warns us over and over to just accept somethign the way it is taught by our fathers and family!
To do so is a logical fallacy and has nothing to do with studying the qur'?n.Get it, man. If the qur'?n is guidance for all mankind it can not be historical and can not be understood through historically developed meanings.
Back to Kyle again, well, I?m sorry I have a headache and I can only talk with Kyle about this subject to prevent my headache from oscillating, Cough, Cough
Well, sorry that I cam back to Kyle. You ae right, he should speak for himself. Our whole discussion here was about your ideas on kufr and Kyle and me objecting to that. How could I avoid mentioning him again?
But you?re right. We will wait for his own opinion and until then the subject is closed.?Sometimes things? I don't know what you mean, sounds too vague to me.
Don?t be silly again. The phrase was part of a whole paragraph and so it was very clear what I was refering to.
No, you don?t need to know what I mean. You better come to your own conclusions.
But better do so with the eternal message of the qur'?n and not with some history book.Bye
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Ok Leyla
Bye
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Peace be upon you all,
I have not read all of the posts so I may not be 100% informed, but from what I gather is that Ahmed has given me the label of "non Muslim". Some have engaged the brother in my defense. I appreciate the support.
Ahmed, if you are refering to the capitalized word "MUSLIM" which is used to denote someone who belongs to the Arabic religion of "Islam", then you are correct, I am not a "MUSLIM".
But if you are referring to the description as used in this proclamation(quran) we are studying, then that would be lower case "muslim" meaning one who is peaceful (submissive to God's LAW).
In any case, I have never needed anyone to agree or disagree with my description, the God suffices as a witness. D
Brother Ahmed, I would love to explain over and over again my position to you, but I am getting too mature in this way of life to continue doing so. There comes a point when we must understand that someone is just not ready to hear what you have to say. The heart must soften first.
I respectfully leave you to your accusations and give you the response of PEACE be upon you.
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^^Well said Brother Kyle!
I'm only a spectator in all of this but brother Ahmed you need to be abit more understanding and sincere when it comes to learning from people. I'm not saying agree with everything someone says but don't put up a defense when someone tries to explain to you something as I think thats where most people error and emotions start playin lol
I aint taking sides or anything and I enjoy brother Ahmed and mquran and Kyle & Nabi's posts but I think HUMBLE is the key word and SINCERITY when it comes to learning and that applies to everyone and me too
PEACE
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I have not read all of the posts so I may not be 100% informed, but from what I gather is that Ahmed has given me the label of "non Muslim". Some have engaged the brother in my defense. I appreciate the support.
Well Kyle, the way I see it, if you're not a Muslim, I can't be a muslim either.
Ahmed, if you are refering to the capitalized word "MUSLIM" which is used to denote someone who belongs to the Arabic religion of "Islam", then you are correct, I am not a "MUSLIM".
I'm not part of the pan-racist religious entity in the world known as 'islam' either. I am a muslim as per al-quraan.
But if you are referring to the description as used in this proclamation(quran) we are studying, then that would be lower case "muslim" meaning one who is peaceful (submissive to God's LAW).
In english, fair enough but in quranic language, we are called 'al-muslimeen'.
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^^Well said Brother Kyle!
I'm only a spectator in all of this but brother Ahmed you need to be abit more understanding and sincere when it comes to learning from people. I'm not saying agree with everything someone says but don't put up a defense when someone tries to explain to you something as I think thats where most people error and emotions start playin lol
I aint taking sides or anything and I enjoy brother Ahmed and mquran and Kyle & Nabi's posts but I think HUMBLE is the key word and SINCERITY when it comes to learning and that applies to everyone and me too
PEACE
Thank you bro
I'm sorry bro you have missed what Kyle told me a while back, HE WAS THE ONE WHO ACCUSED ME OF BEING A HADITH FOLLOWER AND SAID HE DOES NOT DISCUSS MATTERS WITH SUCH ONES UNTIL THEY CHANGE THEIR VIEWS, ASK HIM PLEASE
see brother, your accusation to me was suppose to be directed at brother kyle
now I accepted and respected his decision and I told him that in response to his comment, but he didn't respect his descisoin and kept arguing with my comments despite it was not directed to him.
So you accused me of not being open to understand others while it may look like it but the fact is different, I also believe that kyle himself does the same regarding my opinions, the point bro is this, I'm settled on almost 95% of what I believe and I'm only here to give my opinion, if i start to hear other opinions that are not of a slight concern to me and may cause flaw and does not make sense I have to do what i have to do which give my opinion to the public then bail out, I DON'T HAVE TIME TO ARGUE WITH OTHERS AND THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED RESPECTING THEIR OPINIONS . WE JUST LEAVE IT TO GOD, BUT SOMEHOW THEY KEEP CHASING ME FOR COMMENTS, AND WHEN I DECIDE TO COMMENT I WILL COMMENT AS WHO I'M AND ACCORDING TO WHAT I BUILT IN MY MIND STEADLY AND STRONGLY FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS
Peace to all
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I have not read all of the posts so I may not be 100% informed, but from what I gather is that Ahmed has given me the label of "non Muslim". Some have engaged the brother in my defense. I appreciate the support.
Well Kyle, the way I see it, if you're not a Muslim, I can't be a muslim either.
Ahmed, if you are refering to the capitalized word "MUSLIM" which is used to denote someone who belongs to the Arabic religion of "Islam", then you are correct, I am not a "MUSLIM".
I'm not part of the pan-racist religious entity in the world known as 'islam' either. I am a muslim as per al-quraan.
But if you are referring to the description as used in this proclamation(quran) we are studying, then that would be lower case "muslim" meaning one who is peaceful (submissive to God's LAW).
In english, fair enough but in quranic language, we are called 'al-muslimeen'.
ok, here is a question for you,
what is your religion?
i want an answer from the Quran please
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Peace be upon you all,
I have not read all of the posts so I may not be 100% informed, but from what I gather is that Ahmed has given me the label of "non Muslim". Some have engaged the brother in my defense. I appreciate the support.
Ahmed, if you are refering to the capitalized word "MUSLIM" which is used to denote someone who belongs to the Arabic religion of "Islam", then you are correct, I am not a "MUSLIM".
But if you are referring to the description as used in this proclamation(quran) we are studying, then that would be lower case "muslim" meaning one who is peaceful (submissive to God's LAW).
In any case, I have never needed anyone to agree or disagree with my description, the God suffices as a witness.
Brother Ahmed, I would love to explain over and over again my position to you, but I am getting too mature in this way of life to continue doing so. There comes a point when we must understand that someone is just not ready to hear what you have to say. The heart must soften first.
I respectfully leave you to your accusations and give you the response of PEACE be upon you.
Peace bro
it seems you are the one who forgot
I asked you before are you a muslim and you said no but you didn't give me the above two possibilities when you answered
Also you accused me of being a hadith follower and also told me that you can't continue discussing matters with me because of that, and I accepeted your decision
Did you forget bro?
Peace be with you
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Thank you bro
I'm sorry bro you have missed what Kyle told me a while back, HE WAS THE ONE WHO ACCUSED ME OF BEING A HADITH FOLLOWER AND SAID HE DOES NOT DISCUSS MATTERS WITH SUCH ONES UNTIL THEY CHANGE THEIR VIEWS, ASK HIM PLEASE
I see brother but whether you believe hadith or not I still talk to you with respect and sincerity but I guess its upto the individual whether they discuss anything but personally hadith believers are very close minded therefore its impossible discussing anything with them. I'm not in anyway implying your a hadith follower as thats something you can answer yourself.
see brother, your accusation to me was suppose to be directed at brother kyle
now I accepted and respected his decision and I told him that in response to his comment, but he didn't respect his descisoin and kept arguing with my comments despite it was not directed to him.
So you accused me of not being open to understand others while it may look like it but the fact is different, I also believe that kyle himself does the same regarding my opinions, the point bro is this, I'm settled on almost 95% of what I believe and I'm only here to give my opinion, if i start to hear other opinions that are not of a slight concern to me and may cause flaw and does not make sense I have to do what i have to do which give my opinion to the public then bail out, I DON'T HAVE TIME TO ARGUE WITH OTHERS AND THAT CAN BE CONSIDERED RESPECTING THEIR OPINIONS . WE JUST LEAVE IT TO GOD, BUT SOMEHOW THEY KEEP CHASING ME FOR COMMENTS, AND WHEN I DECIDE TO COMMENT I WILL COMMENT AS WHO I'M AND ACCORDING TO WHAT I BUILT IN MY MIND STEADLY AND STRONGLY FOR THE LAST 25 YEARS
Peace to all
Personally to me you can never stop learning. Learning in whatever fields is always progressive. As you said and I completely agree I don't have time to argue but I do have time to DISCUSS.
I think everyone hear can all agree that opinions are opinions but only opinions that are sound in knowledge and reason and is supported by Quran should be regarded as religious law.
I would love to see as you suggested before a debate on let's say Jesus having no father or other topics you don't agree on with members like Kyle or mquran with judges so to make the debate fair and most importantly without any arguing or negative personal comments. Whether you change your opinion at the end or not is upto you but the readers of the topic can choose the best advice or understanding and follow it as the Quran suggests to do.
PEACE
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ok, here is a question for you,
what is your religion?
i want an answer from the Quran please
My deen is ad-deen inda Allah, which is Al-islaam (3/19). This means that I acknowledge and submit to al-kitaab.
so Islam means submitting then?, also should Islam be the name of the Deen of Allah?
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Salam Brothers and Sisters...
ok, here is a question for you,
what is your religion?
i want an answer from the Quran please
What is 'religion' anyway?
How can u say or tell that person A and B belongs to the 'same religion' ?
Is it if
A and B belongs to the same occult?
A and B had the same 'set of beliefs' (Arab Aqidah, HebrewAqedah) ?
A and B looks, thinks and acts the same?Or the question itself is out of context ?
Salam / Peace
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Salam Brothers and Sisters...
ok, here is a question for you,
what is your religion?
i want an answer from the Quran please
What is 'religion' anyway?
How can u say or tell that person A and B belongs to the 'same religion' ?
Is it if
A and B belongs to the same occult?
A and B had the same 'set of beliefs' (Arab Aqidah, HebrewAqedah) ?
A and B looks, thinks and acts the same?Or the question itself is out of context ?
Salam / Peace
Peace
Religion as I see it is simply being held accountable, it is exactly like taking loan from a bank and you have to pay it back later on, in fact the same ward "Deen" is used to describe something that is borrowed in the Arab world
Deen in faith, is a set of laws that we have to abide to, these laws are not yours or mine, they are God's laws in His preserved and last message called "The Quran",
if you read the Quran cover to cover, I'm sure you will be able to exract most of these laws then abide to it and if we do then when the time comes to pay our Deen back, hopfully there will not be too much interest THAT WE MUST PAY ON THE SPOT
Peace bro