Does the quran say that a "muslim" must have faith
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Hi everyone,
Maybe faith and submission are to seperate things independent of eachother, even though they can affect eachother?
Nadeem.
Peace
they are separate things but submission is dependant of belief, however belief is not dependant of submission
peace
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Peace,
There are subtleties to the matter as Wakas clearly points to. However Ahmed is trying to create indirectly from unrelated verses a case for his own pre-conceived ideas.
4914 deals directly with the order of absolute belief and submission.
When Ahmed quotes...
384 ?Say We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.?
This does not deal with the order. This statement is true for a 'mumin' or believer, because they do in fact believe what is established in their hearts by the God, and they do submit to Him; but they submitted before the belief was established.
To illustrate this further let's look at...
28 Then there are those who say, "We believe in GOD and the Last Day," while they are not believers.
Wamina alnnasi man yaqoolu amanna biAllahi wabialyawmi al-akhiri wama hum bimu/mineena
This illustrates that belief is more than what is said (again dealt with elsewhere 214 for example); one must firstly submit to the God, act righteously, and will then have belief established in their hearts.
The verses that Ahmed quotes are overwhelmingly to do with submission - and not people saying they believe. I argue that you cannot easily know that you are a 'mumin' - you can only continue to strive to submit and be righteous. It is up to the God whether your heart will attain certainty.
Belief therefore means certainty.
24 And they believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you,* and with regard to the Hereafter, they are absolutely certain.
Waallatheena yu/minoona bima onzila ilayka wama onzila min qablika wabial-akhirati hum yooqinoona
25 These are guided by their Lord; these are the winners.
You can acknowledge that there is the God and thereby submit; but being assured or absolutely certain is different.
And there is the subtlety.
You might acknowledge that I am a man who resides in Australia, but until you experience the truth of it in a sense then you can't be certain of it.
Regards.
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Brother Ahmed,
Maybe we must define submission and faith?
Submission to what, and faith in what?
Is faith simply knowing god and the system? If so, then satan is a better believer than us put together.
If submission is following god's path but still unaware of god and the system, then what is the difference between submitters and those who blindly follow satan?
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. We can't progress before we define these terms.
Nadeem
Nadeem. -
Brother Ahmed,
peace bro
Maybe we must define submission and faith?
Submission to what, and faith in what?
faith is to believe in the Unseen as per 23 and what we should believe in as per 4136 are Allah, His messnegers, the Quran, the previous scriptures sent, the Angels and the Judgment Day
Submission if to totally and entirly to submit to Allah that we suppose believed in Him already and that is what Islam is
Is faith simply knowing god and the system? If so, then satan is a better believer than us put together.
absolutely, and I read many times in some arabic books over 20 years ago that no human believed in Allah as satan did however his ego destroyed him
If submission is following god's path but still unaware of god and the system,
no, submission is following God's path while being aware who is God
you can't submit to an unknown entity, logically speaking
then what is the difference between submitters and those who blindly follow satan?
there is no difference indeed, the believers submitted to Allah and the unbleivers submitted to Satan and obeyed him blindly
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. We can't progress before we define these terms.
Nadeem.
sure , I tried and I hope I did understand it
peace
