9:29

unknownuser

Peace

I believe the verse applies "only" during the prophet life and was revealed as a result of an incident by the Kafiroon inside Al Masjid Al Haram, you will see that in 928 they were not allowed to come near Al Masjid Al Haram after that year, this was due to another fact mentioned at the start of the sura, the kafiroon used to do tawaf while totally naked around the Kaaba,

therefore the verse is clearly to fight those who will not abide by the new rule set by Allah, not to allow the kafiroon to come near Al Masjid Al Haram

regatrding the Geziah, I also believe it only applied to their time while Islam was still establishing, I see it exactly as a type of tax that applies only to certain people, even in these days there are taxes that apply to others and not to the rest, there is also tax breaks that apply to some but not the rest, this can't be called discrimination, rather the law of the land but in this case the law was set by Allah not by the humans.

I found it strange that humans dont dispute what themselves do and when Allah does the same they dispute it, i guess it comes down to how much humans believe in Allah and His laws

unfortunatlly believing in Allah does not come alone, it comes with believing in everything He says, if 90% of what He said is clear to understand and also justified, then for the other 10% left, it does not mean it is not justifed because it looks not justified under our senses, it is an order from Him and sure He knows best and we don't know

I guess if this Geziah law applies now, then anyone can have a tax break for life from it if the believe in Allah lol
Peace

phoenix1

peace

i don't agree with you, Ahmed. I don't believe anything in the quran was only there for the prophet's lifetime. It's a timeless piece of guidance for everyone. I definately think the verse has a different meaning.
If the verse is translated correctly (which rarely is the case), then 'fighting' doesn't have to mean fight them physically. And the 'tax' or 'tribute' doesn't have to be the 'Jizya' tax from history books.
hope this helps kassana. i can't add much more because i don't have much knowledge of the quran or its language.

phoenix1

peace Ahmed Baghat,

and by looking at history to explain the quran, you're doing the same thing hadithists have been doing all this while.

mquran

Salaamun alaikum,

Ahmed I believe the verse applies "only" during the prophet life and was revealed as a result

Al-Quraan became a religious icon as opposed to a book of guidance thanks to thinking like this.

Phoenix don't agree with you, Ahmed. I don't believe anything in the quran was only there for the prophet's lifetime. It's a timeless piece of guidance for everyone

Well said.

On to the ayat

Qtil Al-Ladhna L Yu'uminna Billhi Wa L Bil-Yawmi Al-'khiri Wa L Yuarrimna M arrama Allhu Wa Rasluhu Wa L Yadnna Dna Al-aqqi Mina Al-Ladhna 't Al-Kitba att? YuAl-JizyataAn Yadin Wa Hum ghirna

My notes on it

This ayat is the second ayat of the passage. The first began with 9/28.
9/28 is about al-mushrikoon, who if we see 9/1-2 are al-kafiroon.
Al-kafiroon in turn are people who commit fasad fil ardh/mischief on earth (2/6-20).
9/29 gives the following as a criteria before we fight
a. they disbelieve in Allah and the last day
b. they dont make haraam what Allah makes haraam
c. they dont acknowledge deen al-haqq

therefore, if Allah makes life haraam (restricted), these people do not. Acknowledging deen al-haqq here means that they keep oppressing people (belieing ad-deen is not feeding the poor and helping the orphans, 107/1-3).

these people are 'alladhina uutul kitaab'. They were already given the book. 2/121 tells us the traits of such people.

So you get the picture, its about fighting people who are oppressors, who take life.

unknownuser

peace Ahmed Baghat,

and by looking at history to explain the quran, you're doing the same thing hadithists have been doing all this while.

sorry, what is wrong by looking at the hadith as history records?

I don't care what others do really, my Deen is self taught, and I always back myself with verses from the Quran, unlike the mnay in here who post their clear cut opinions for every bloody word in the Quran

peace

unknownuser

peace

i don't agree with you, Ahmed. I don't believe anything in the quran was only there for the prophet's lifetime.

bro, many things in the Quran was only valid at the prophet times, like many other things that was valid at the time of other prophets from the storiesw we read about them, we don't see kafiroon going around the Kaaba naked, don't we?

It's a timeless piece of guidance for everyone. I definately think the verse has a different meaning.

of course most of the lessons and teachings in there are timeless, can you please tell me what is the different meaning?, in my first comment, I said I believe that this is the meaning, I'm open for a better understanding, but not the metaphor concept please (this is a joke on its own)

If the verse is translated correctly (which rarely is the case), then 'fighting' doesn't have to mean fight them physically. And the 'tax' or 'tribute' doesn't have to be the 'Jizya' tax from history books.
hope this helps kassana. i can't add much more because i don't have much knowledge of the quran or its language.

mate, I don't take fighting as always physically, it can also be mentally and verbally,

for the Jizya, do you think it is something the non muslims should pay in mislim countries now days?

if you answer yes then that is fine with me to accept but only if that country rules by the Quran, however there is no real mulsim country that adhers to the Quran teachings, therefore that law is invalid from the human point of view because even the so called muslims know that they don't apply Islam well, hence they don't apply this Jizya nowdays

Peace

unknownuser

Salaamun alaikum,

Ahmed I believe the verse applies "only" during the prophet life and was revealed as a result

Al-Quraan became a religious icon as opposed to a book of guidance thanks to thinking like this.

Hi

it is actually you who thinks this way by assuming that this is how I take it, which is fine, we are talking about your perspective, i guess you don't want to hear my perspective in how I see you regarding the Quran, I made one about you when I joined but that is history now

unknownuser

Peace

A mushrik is actually a kafir by definition, because they listened to Satan instead of listening to God

Satan told this to all the bad guys on the day of Jusdgment

Satan can never be Mushrik, because he never listened to anyone else i.e. Satan is only a Kafir, and anyone who listens to Satan is a Mushrik even if that person is an atheist

I will try to find the verse

unknownuser

Peace

Here is the verse that confirms all the bad guys are Mushrikoon by lisytenen to satan instead of listening to Allah, we willl see that he described himslef as a Kafir of Allah while all the bad guys as Mushrikoon to Allah

And Satan saith, when the matter hath been decided Lo! Allah promised you a promise of truth; and I promised you, then failed you. And I had no power over you save that I called unto you and ye obeyed me. So blame not, but blame yourselves. I cannot help you, nor can ye help me, Lo! I disbelieved in that which ye before associated to me. Lo! for wrong-doers is a painful doom.

(22)

Peace

mquran

it is actually you who thinks this way by assuming that this is how I take it, which is fine, we are talking about your perspective, i guess you don't want to hear my perspective in how I see you regarding the Quran, I made one about you when I joined but that is history now

I don't mind hearing anything. If it's substantiated, then I'd be happy to accept it. However, till now you have presented an unquranic means to understand al-quraan. This I stand against.

unknownuser

it is actually you who thinks this way by assuming that this is how I take it, which is fine, we are talking about your perspective, i guess you don't want to hear my perspective in how I see you regarding the Quran, I made one about you when I joined but that is history now

I don't mind hearing anything. If it's substantiated, then I'd be happy to accept it. However, till now you have presented an unquranic means to understand al-quraan. This I stand against.

as I said, it is unquranic from your perspective, nothing more really and again this is fine with me, as what matters to me at the end of the day is my perspective not yours

mquran

as I said, it is unquranic from your perspective, nothing more really and again this is fine with me, as what matters to me at the end of the day is my perspective not yours

Good for you.

kassana

Thanks guys, interesting stuff. Of course, there is no definitive answer just yet. I believe that the quran is not something that is relative to one place and one time, neither any of the verses, it's historic context applies universally to all throughout time. With this verse, there is an historic context, and it's meaning I think means 'fight the oppressors' rather than anyone who doesn't believe.

Allah Alim. I don't know. The jizya thing, i think is irrelevant, however, even if the non muslims had to be pay jizya, then so do we, zakat is a tax on muslims for greater welfare of everyone around us, and jizya is the same tax, but called differently, you see the word has to be changed for muslims, zakat is something in the way of Allah, for the sake of Allah, jizya is for non believers as they don't believe in Allah so for them it's just tax, protection is you may. They get protected by zakat and their money they put into the welfare. Any, that's interpretation. I am open to other peoples opinion.