sex with the captives?
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peace elena,
you wrote
Muhammad Asad, translator
6...EXCEPT WITH THEIR SPOUSES, WHO ARE LEGALLY THEIRS (BY MARRIAGE)
This one is not the unique objection to that interpretation, since the Quran gives the term "believers" to both men and women and that the term "aswach" (spouses) denotes also to both members of the matrimony, there is n o reason to ascribe to the phrase "MA MALAKAT AIMANUHUM" the "their slaves" meaning, and, as on the other hand, it is inconceivable that this could refer to male and female slaves. It is evident that this phrase doesn't allude to slaves at all, but that it has the same meaning than in 424 --"THOSE WHO ARE LEGALLY YOURS BY MARRIAGE"-- with the significant difference that in this context this expression refers both to husbands and wives who "own each other legally" because of the marriage.
According to this interpretation, the particle "au" that precedes to this phrase doesn't lead to an alternative but to a further explanation similar to the expresion "in other words" or "that is" what gives to the whole phrase the sense "EXCEPT THEIR SPOUSES , THAT IS, THOSE WHO ARE LEGALLY YOURS (BY MARRIAGE)..."
1671-Walla_hu faddala ba'dakum 'ala_ ba'din fir rizq(i), famal lazina fuddilu_ bi ra_ddi rizqihim 'ala_ MA_ MALAKAT AIMA_NUHUM fahum fihi sawa_'(un), fabini'matilla_hi yajhadu_n(a).
1671-And Allah hath favored some of you above others in provision. Now those who are more favored will by no means hand over their provision to those (slaves) whom their right hands possess, so that they may be equal with them in respect thereof. Is it then the grace of Allah that they deny?If we translate MA_ MALAKAT AIMA_NUHUM as THOSE WHO ARE LEGALLY YOURS (BY MARRIAGE)..." in the above verse it will read
1671-And Allah hath favored some of you above others in provision. Now those who are more favored will by no means hand over their provision to those WHO ARE LEGALLY YOURS (BY MARRIAGE)..." so that they may be equal with them in respect thereof. Is it then the grace of Allah that they deny?
It doesn?t make any sense??
What I understand from this verse is that two different class divisions are being discussed here
Who are favored in provisions
Who are not
THE HAVES AND HAVE NOTS.
The masters and the slaves.Peace.
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peace Elena,
thanks querida for the correction ) .
MA = THOSE / WHOME
MIN = FROM
MALAKAT = OWN
AIMANU = AN OATH / RIGHT HAND
HUM = THEIR
KUM = YOURMA_ MALAKAT AIMA_NUKUM translated as THOSE WHO ARE LEGALLY your (BY MARRIAGE)
424
Wal muhsana_tu minan nisa_'i illa_ MA_ MALAKAT AIMA_NUKUM,And all married women (are forbidden unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.
And all married women (are forbidden unto you save those WHO ARE LEGALLY your (BY MARRIAGE
It looks ok in 424 but again this translation doesn?t make sense in 425.425
Wa mal lam yastati' minkum taulan ay yankihal muhsana_til mu'mina_ti famimma_ MALAKAT AIMA_NUKUM.And whoso is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids whom your right hands possess.
And whoso is not able to afford to marry free, believing women, let them marry from the believing maids those WHO ARE LEGALLY YOUR (BY MARRIAGE)??
In 2458 the MALAKAT AIMANUKUM are prohibited to come to you WHEN YOU HAVE TAKEN OFF YOUR CLOTH because of the heat of the noon and AFTER THE NIGHT PRAYER TILL THE DAWN PRAYER , they are being treated here like those who haven?t come to puberty, now that makes me wonder why? If they are legally yours and not something else
Ya_ ay yuhal lazina a_manu_ liyasta zinkumul lazina MALAKAT AIMA_NUKUM wal lazina lam yablugul huluma minkum sala_sa mar ra_tin min qabli sala_til fajri wa hina tadau_na siya_bakum minaz zahirati wa mim badi sala_til isa_i sala_su aura_til lakum laisa alaikum wa la_ alaihim juna_hun badahun na tawa_fu_na alaikum badukum ala_ badin kaza_lika yubay yinul la_hu lakumul a_yat wal la_hu alimun hakim
O ye who believe! LET YOUR SLAVES, and those of you who have not come to puberty, ask leave of you at three times (before they come into your presence) Before the prayer of dawn, and when ye lay aside your raiment for the heat of noon, and after the prayer of night. Three times of privacy for you. It is no sin for them or for you at other times, when some of you go round attendant upon others (if they come into your presence without leave). Thus Allah maketh clear the revelations for you. Allah is Knower, Wise.
O ye who believe! LET THOSE WHO ARE LEGALLY YOUR (BY MARRIAGE) , and those of you who have not come to puberty, ask leave of you at three times (before they come into your presence) Before the prayer of dawn, and WHEN YE LAY ASIDE YOUR RAIMENT FOR THE HEAT OF NOON, and after the prayer of night. Three times of privacy for you. It is no sin for them or for you at other times, when some of you go round attendant upon others (if they come into your presence without leave). Thus Allah maketh clear the revelations for you. Allah is Knower, Wise.
peace.
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peace elena,
you wrote
Maybe it shouldn't be expected that the same words have the same meaning in every verse
sis honestly i am not sure about it since arabic is not my native tongue, this is the reason i keep on looking into every article and every translation I can find.
now if some words have different meanings in different verses it should have been translated like that by all the scholars.
what i have started to understand is that it is a matter of ones own preferences and desires when it comes to the translation of the words/verses of quran and may be in some of the cases the real meanings have been intentionally ignored to make it look logical and acceptable according to the changing enviroment/moral values.peace.
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peace all,
Ma malakat aymanukum
The term "what your right hands possess" (ma malakat aymanukum) occurs 14 times in the Qur'an, in the following Arabic forms
?
?
?
?
?
It is most often used with reference to women, but is applied to both sexes. The term itself is normally considered to refer to prisoners of war, or more broadly to slaves in general, according to the usual tafsirs (eg Ibn Kathir); however, some (eg Muhammad Asad) have proposed alternative explanations, whereby it would mean "one's rightful spouse"http//www.zawaj.com/articles/right_hands.html. Be that as it may, the main points about "those whom one's right hands possess" in the Qur'an areA believer may have sex with them (as may the Prophet)
al-Mu'minun 6 and al-Maarij 30 both, in identical wording, draw a distinction between spouses and "those whom one's right hands possess", saying " " (literally, "their spouses or what their right hands possess"), while clarifying that sex with either is permissible. Muhammad Asad explains this as a distinction between husband and wife, rather than between two categories of woman.
an-Nisa 24 can be interpreted either as explaining that "those whom one's right hands possess" are the only category of women with whom one may have sex even if they are already married, or as using the term to refer to one's own wife as opposed to others' wives. The phrasing in the rest of that verse could be read in isolation either as excepting or as including "those whom one's right hands possess" among those to whom one must give a dowry "for the enjoyment you have of them." The following verse adds that a believer, if he cannot afford to marry a chaste believer and cannot restrain his desires, may marry a believing girl who is chaste (not a fornicator or an adulteress) from among "those whom your right hands possess", giving due dowry to her household (literally "household", but translated by some as "owner" or "master"); if the woman so married commits indecency, the punishment is half that for chaste women. (To keep this verse from contradicting itself, the translators understand "chaste" - muhsanat - as meaning "free" in the general case, but "chaste" when referring to the slave.) an-Nisa 3 also confirms that a believer may marry "that which your right hands possess", particularly if he fears that he will deal unjustly otherwise. al-Ahzab 50 confirms that, literally, "what your hand has taken from what God has assigned you" (understood by most translators as "from among the prisoners of war") are also permissible for the Prophet just as are his wives, and female cousins who emigrated with him, and believing women who wish to marry him, a point emphasised by al-Ahzab 52, which says that no other women than those mentioned are allowed him, even if their beauty pleases him, except those "whom his right hand possesses".
Critics claim these verses sanctions the rape of prisoners of war. In fact, while the traditional interpretations unquestionably take the term to refer to prisoners of war, these verses, in themselves, neither allow nor forbid such a practice, as they say nothing about the issue of consent. However, such critics regard it as implausible that permitting sex with prisoners of war could lead to anything but rape.A believing woman need not cover herself before them
An-Nur 30-33, in the course of laying down the familiar dress code of Islam, explains that women "should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty" except to various familiar people, including those "whom their right hands possess". Al-Ahzab 55 makes it explicit that the same liberty is given to the Prophet's wives.They should ask permission to see one if one is likely to be undressed
an-Nur 58 says that "those whom your right hands possess" and underage children should ask a believer's permission (before they come to their presence) at the three times of day when one is likely to be undressed.The behavior of the fortunate towards them is a metaphor for God's towards man
an-Nahl 71 and ar-Rum 28 both use the same metaphor just as the fortunate among people do not share their wealth with "those whom their right hands possess" to the point of making them equals, nor fear them as they fear each other, so does God with people, bestowing more on some than others, but never making them equals, let alone fearing them.A believer should be good to them
An-Nisa 36 reminds us that a believer should do good to a variety of people, including "what your right hands possess", for the love of God.They should be freed and given something if they are good
an-Nur 33 states literally that "those who want a writing among those whom your right hands possess, if you know good in them, also give them of the property of God that He gave you". "Writing" is understood by most translators to refer to a deed of emancipation. This is followed by a verse forbidding the prostitution of slaves who desire chastity.peace.
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Thanks Agent for your last comment that was great
peace
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peace all.
Just for Comparison-similar and conflicting translations of ma malakat aymanukum .
004024Waalmuhsanatu mina alnnisa-i illa MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM kitaba Allahi AAalaykum waohilla lakum ma waraa thalikum an tabtaghoo bi-amwalikum muhsineena ghayra musafiheena fama istamtaAAtum bihi minhunna faatoohunna ojoorahunna fareedatan wala junaha AAalaykum feema taradaytum bihi min baAAdi alfareedati inna Allaha kana AAaleeman hakeeman
MUHAMMAD TAQI-UD-DIN AL-HILALI ?MOSIN KHAN
Also (forbidden are) women already married, EXCEPT THOSE (CAPTIVES AND SLAVES) WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek (them in marriage) with Mahr (bridal money given by the husband to his wife at the time of marriage) from your property, desiring chastity, not committing illegal sexual intercourse, so with those of whom you have enjoyed sexual relations, give them their Mahr as prescribed; but if after a Mahr is prescribed, you agree mutually (to give more), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.MAULANA MOHAMMED ALI
And all married women EXCEPT THOSE WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS (are forbidden); (this is) Allah?s ordinance to you. And lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage, not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by (by marrying), give them their dowries as appointed. And there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed (of dowry). Surely Allah is every Knowing, Wise.PICKTHAL
And all married women (are forbidden unto you) SAVE THOSE (CAPTIVES) WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS. It is a decree of Allah for you. Lawful unto you are all beyond those mentioned, so that ye seek them with your wealth in honest wedlock, not debauchery. And those of whom ye seek content (by marrying them), give unto them their portions as a duty. And there is no sin for you in what ye do by mutual agreement after the duty (hath been done). Lo! Allah is ever Knower, Wise.SARWAR
You are forbidden to marry married women EXCEPT YOUR SLAVE-GIRLS. This is the decree of God. Besides these, it is lawful for you to marry other women if you pay their dower, maintain chastity and do not commit indecency. If you marry them for the appointed time you must pay their dowries. There is no harm if you reach an understanding among yourselves about the dowry, God is All-knowing and All-wise.SHAKIR
And all married women EXCEPT THOSE WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.SHERALI
And forbidden to you are married women, EXCEPT SUCH AS YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS. This has ALLAH enjoined on you. And allowed to you are those beyond that, that you may seek them by means of your property, marrying them properly and not committing fornication. And for the benefit you receive from them, give them their dowries, as fixed, and there is no blame on you what you do by mutual agreement after the fixing of the dowry. Surely ALLAH is All-Knowing, Wise.YUSUFALI
Also (prohibited are) women already married, EXCEPT THOSE WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS Thus hath Allah ordained (Prohibitions) against you Except for these, all others are lawful, provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property,- desiring chastity, not lust, seeing that ye derive benefit from them, give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if, after a dower is prescribed, agree Mutually (to vary it), there is no blame on you, and Allah is All-knowing, All-wise.SAYYID ABULALA MAWDUDI-TRANS - ZAFAR ANSARI
And also forbidden to you are all married women (Muhsanat) EXCEPT THOSE WOMEN WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS HAVE COME TO POSSESS (AS A RESULT OF WAR). This is Allah?s decree and it is biding upon you. But it is lawful for you to seek out all women except these, offering them your wealth and the protection of wedlock rather than using them for the unfettered satisfaction of lust. And in exchange of what you enjoy by marrying them pay their bridal-due as an obligation. But there is no blame on you if you mutually agree to alter the settlement after it has been made. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.MUHAMMAD AYUB KHAN
And (forbidden to you are) married women, EXCEPT WHAT YOUR RIGHT HANDS OWN; so God prescribes for you; and all beyond that is lawful to you, if you seek, with your wealth, in marriage and not for lust. Then for the benefit you draw from them, give them their dowries as apportioned; and it is no fault in you in what you agree upon after the due apportionate; God is surely Knowing, Wise.ANEESUDDIN
And (forbidden to you for marriage are) all married women EXCEPT THOSE WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS. Allah has prescribed (this) for you, and lawful for you (to marry) are (all women) other than those mentioned above, provided that you seek them (in marriage) with your wealth, being chaste, not fornicators*; then for that which you benefit through the (marriage) from them, give them their appointed dowries, and there is no sin on you about what you mutually agree upon after appointing (the dowries), Allah is certainly Knowing, Wise.DARYABADI
And also forbidden are the wedded among women, SAVE THOSE WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS OWN Allah's rescript for you. And allowed unto you is whatsoever is beyond that, so that ye may seek them with your substances as properly wedded men, not as fornicators. Then whomsoever of them ye have enjoyed, give them their dowers stipulated. And there will be no blame on you in regard to aught on which ye mutually agree after the stipulation; verily Allah is Knowing, Wise.HASSAN QARIBULLAH AND AHMED DARWISH
And (forbidden to you) are married women, EXCEPT THOSE WHOM YOUR RIGHT HAND OWNS. Such Allah has written for you. Lawful to you beyond all that, is that you can seek using your wealth in marriage and not fornication. So whatever you have enjoyed from them give them their obligated wage. And there is no fault in you in what ever you mutually agree after the obligation. Allah is the Knower, the Wise.OMAR AHMED
Also (prohibited are) women already married EXCEPT THOSE WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS. Thus hath Allah ordained (prohibitions) against you except for these all others are lawful provided ye seek (them in marriage) with gifts from your property desiring chastity not lust. Seeing that ye derive benefit from them give them their dowers (at least) as prescribed; but if after a dower is prescribed ye agree mutually (to vary it) there is no blame on you and Allah is All- Knowing All-WiseMAULANA SHAH AHMED RAZA KHAN
And forbidden to you are the women having husbands SAVE THE WOMEN OF INFIDELS WHO COME IN YOUR POSSESSION. This is the prescription of Allah unto you and the remaining besides those are lawful for you; so that you seek them in exchange of your properties bringing them in bondage (through marriage) and not desiring for lust. Therefore, as to those women whom you wish to marry, give them their fixed dowries. And there is no sin in what you mutually agree! Upon after fixation. Undoubtedly, Allah is Knowing, Wise.ZAFARULLAH KHAN
Forbidden to you also are married women, EXCEPT THOSE WHO HAVE PASSED INTO YOUR HANDS AS PRISONERS. This is the commandment of Allah for you. Lawful for you are those outside these categories, that you seek them in marriage, by means of your properties, not committing fornication. For the benefit that you receive from them pay them their dowers as fixed, and there will be no sin upon you in respect of anything that you mutually agree upon after the fixing of the dower. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.MUHAMMED AHMED-SAMEERA
And the married from the women EXCEPT WHAT YOUR RIGHTS OWNED/POSSESSED (FROM SPOILS OF WAR) God's decree/judgment on you, and became/is permitted/allowed for you, what (is) behind that, that you ask/desire with your (P) wealths , marrying not fornicating/adulterating, so what you enjoyed with it, from them (F), so give them (F) their (F) rewards/fees (dowries) a religious duty/command/stipulation ,and no offense/guilt on you in what you (P) mutually agreed with it, from after the religious duty/command/stipulation , that God was/is knowledgeable, wise/judicious.HAMID S AZIZ
And all married women (are forbidden unto you), SAVE SUCH AS YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS (CAPTIVES OF WAR) - It is a decree of Allah for you. But lawful for you are all beyond these. So seek them with your wealth in honest marriage and not lust. But such of them from whom you seek comfort, give them their portions as a duty; and there is no crime in what you do by mutual agreement after the duty has been done. Verily, Allah is ever Knower and Wise.M.A.QADRI
And all married women are forbidden for you EXCEPT THE WIVES OF DISBELIEVERS WHO COME INTO YOUR POSSESSION AS BONDWOMEN; this is Allah?s decree for you; and other than these, all women are lawful for you so that you seek them in exchange of your wealth in proper wedlock, not adultery; therefore give the women you wish to marry, their appointed bridal money; and after the appointment (of bridal money) there is no sin on you if you come to a mutual agreement; indeed Allah is All Knowing, Wise.ARBERRY
And wedded women, SAVE WHAT YOUR RIGHT HANDS OWN. So God prescribes for you. Lawful for you, beyond all that, is that you may seek, using your wealth, in wedlock and not in licence. Such wives as you enjoy thereby, give them their wages apportionate; it is no fault in you in your agreeing together, after the due apportionate. God is All-knowing, All-wise.PALMER
And married women, SAVE SUCH AS YOUR RIGHT HANDS POSSESS,- God's Book against you! - but lawful for you is all besides this, for you to seek them with your wealth, marrying them and not fornicating; but such of them as ye have enjoyed, give them their hire as a lawful due; for there is no crime in you about what ye agree between you after such lawful due, verily, God is knowing and wise.RODWELL
Forbidden to you also are married women, EXCEPT THOSE WHO ARE IN YOUR HANDS AS SLAVES This is the law of God for you. And it is allowed you, beside this, to seek out wives by means of your wealth, with modest conduct, and without fornication. And give those with whom ye have cohabited their dowry. This is the law. But it shall be no crime in you to make agreements over and above the law. Verily, God is Knowing, Wise!SALE
also free women , EXCEPT THOSE WHOM YOUR RIGHT HANDS SHALL POSSESS ordained you from God. Whatever is beside this, is allowed you; that ye may with your substance provide for your selves, acting that which is right, and avoiding whoredom. And for the advantage which ye receive from them, give them their reward, according to what is ordained But it shall be no crime in you to make any other agreement among your selves, after the ordinance ; for God is knowing and wise.IRVING
Nor any married women, EXCEPT THE ONES UNDER YOUR CONTROL. God's legislation as it applies to you. Anything beyond that is lawful for you, provided you court them by means of your wealth, marrying them properly, rather than taking them on as mistresses. Since you have thereby sought enjoyment with them, give them their marriage portions as is stipulated. Yet it will not be held against you should you come to other terms about it even after what has been stipulated. God is Aware, Wise.GHULLAM AHMED PERVAIZ
Also forbidden to you in marriage are those women who are already married EXCEPT THOSE WHOM YOU ALREADY POSSESS. These are the Divine Laws. Except for these women, all others are lawful for you in marriage provided you pay them their dower and marry them for the purpose of leading a conjugal life and not for the mere satisfaction of your lust. Pay the dower to the women whom you take into marriage. By mutual agreement, the original dower may be altered. Allah?s Laws are based upon knowledge and wisdom.RASHAD
Also prohibited are the women who are already married, UNLESS THEY FLEE THEIR DISBELIEVING HUSBANDS WHO ARE AT WAR WITH YOU. These are GOD's commandments to you. All other categories are permitted for you in marriage, so long as you pay them their due dowries. You shall maintain your morality, by not committing adultery. Thus, whoever you like among them, you shall pay them the dowry decreed for them. You commit no error by mutually agreeing to any adjustments to the dowry. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.SHABBIR AHMED
424 (Also forbidden to you are) women who are already married, except those women who are already rightfully yours (having sought asylum with you against their disbelieving husbands at war with you 6010). This is Allah?s binding Ordinance upon you. Permitted unto you are all other than aforementioned. However, seek them in honest wedlock by giving them a generous marital gift as Muhsineen (let marriage be a fortress of chastity). You shall not waste your energies on lust (and go not near adultery 1732). Since you marry women for quality of life, therefore, give them their marital gifts as a duty. Nevertheless, there is nothing wrong in adjusting the sum with mutual agreement after the sum of this duty has been decided. Behold, Allah is All Knowing, Wise.MUHAMMED ASAD
And all married women other than those WHOM YOU RIGHTFULLY POSSESS this is God's ordinance, binding upon you. But lawful to you are all beyond these, for you to seek out, offering them of your possessions, taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication. And unto those with whom you desire to enjoy marriage, you shall give the dowers due to them; but you will incur no sin if, after this lawful due, you freely agree with one another upon anything behold, God is indeed all-knowing, wise.FREE MINDS
And the already married from the women, EXCEPT THOSE WHO BECOME WIDOWED; God?s scripture is over you; and permitted for you is what is beyond this, if you are seeking with your money to be protected and not for illicit sex. As for those whom you have already had joy with them, then you shall give them their wage as an obligation. There is no sin upon you for what you agree to after the obligation. God is Knowledgeable, Wise.Fateh muhammed
( ں ( ر ( م (ت ( ے (رAhmed ali
Shah Ahmed Raza Khan
(۳ (۴ (۵ (۶ (۷peace.
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Hi Agent you don't want to give up?
This is like sticks to stones - no such thing.
its all a cockup in the trans.
Who/which free-minder will want his girls being impregnated without a marriege by someone who captures them - even if there was a war??????????
Would Allah make it allowable for such decadances or such happenings.
Be a man denounce this it isn't Gods scripture but misguided fiends translations or something.
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Peace simple,
you wrote
Hi Agent you don't want to give up?
pal at this forum I have to respect others and their views, but I thing there is no compulsion to agree with their views .
simple wrote
This is like sticks to stones - no such thing.
its all a cockup in the trans.Who/which free-minder will want his girls being impregnated without a marriage by someone who captures them - even if there was a war??????????
Free-minder or any minder, no one in the right frame of mind will want that or approve of that today.
These verses were revealed 1400 years ago; they talk about the treatment with the POWS of that time in accordance with the values, customs and social practices of that time. We cannot evaluate every practice of 1400 years ago with the yardstick of today?s values. But yes it?s absolutely wrong by today?s standards.
533.The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that
-they will be killed
-or crucified,
-or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off,
-Or will be expelled out of the land.
Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;There is absolutely no way 3 and 4 can be approved today.
simple wrote
Would Allah makes it allowable for such decadences or such happenings?
Seems to me he did allow it for some period even though it was optional.
5/6.-And they preserve their sexual energies only for their wives; or slave maids (who were in their possession before the Quranic injunctions prohibiting slavery were revealed ~ 474; and who after being duly married had been given a status equal to that of other wives). There is no blame in having sexual relations with them?..
simple wrote
Be a man
I am
simple wrote
Denounce this it isn't Gods scripture but misguided fiend translations or something.
God?s scripture has come to me through the hands of men, it?s the men who translated the scripture in the past, those who are doing it today ARE ALSO MEN/HUMANE BEINGS, we can agree/disagree with their translations but I think it?s inappropriate to call them all MISGUIDED FIEND TRANSLATORS only because we wish that they should have translated a certain word/phrase/verse in a way that we think is right, instead of what they thought/believed was right.
If the past translators have committed mistakes, what guarantee there is that the present translators are not committing any mistakes? who knows 50/100 years from now someone might be calling these translators of today MFTs?
The scripture of God is in a language I don?t understand; so for my understanding I have to depend upon the translations, since according to you they are all MISGUIDED FIEND TRANSLATORS, I would request you to tell me who you think is the rightly guided translator whose translation I should study?
Peace.
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Salaams Br,
i think i repeat my self sometimes - may be i shouldn't.
you said"
533.The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that
-they will be killed
-or crucified,
-or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off,
-Or will be expelled out of the land.
Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter theirs will be an awful doom;There is absolutely no way 3 and 4 can be approved today.
simple wrote
Quote
Would Allah makes it allowable for such decadences or such happenings?Seems to me he did allow it for some period even though it was optional."
there is no crusifiction, and no cutting of hands or feet in the quran.
AND ALLAH DOESN' ALLOW THINGS AT ONE TIME AND FORBID THEM AT ANOTHER TIME, Allah's law is the same allways - AND as the quran says same to Noah, and same for all prophets.
you said"I would request you to tell me who you think is the rightly guided translator whose translation I should study? "
your own - i think , using a dictionary may be like lanes and the quranic dictionary or any others recommended on the tools to study the quran mentioned.
Burhans site is brillient for research.
But foremost your own intellect and the common sense - i think.
God Bless.
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Peace simple,
You wrote
AND ALLAH DOESN' ALLOW THINGS AT ONE TIME AND FORBID THEM AT ANOTHER TIME, Allah's law is the same allways - AND as the quran says same to Noah, and same for all prophets.
Only the fundamental laws don?t change others can be relaxed/changed with the changing situation.
5 3.FORBIDDEN TO YOU IS THAT WHICH DIES OF ITSELF, AND BLOOD, AND FLESH OF SWINE, and that on which any other name than that of Allah has been invoked, and the strangled (animal) and that beaten to death, and that killed by a fall and that killed by being smitten with the horn, and that which wild beasts have eaten, except what you slaughter, and what is sacrificed on stones set up (for idols) and that you divide by the arrows; that is a transgression. This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; BUT WHOEVER IS COMPELLED BY HUNGER, NOT INCLINING WILLFULLY TO SIN, THEN SURELY ALLAH IS FORGIVING, MERCIFUL.
2106-We do not duplicate a sign, or make it forgotten, unless We bring one which is like it or even greater. Did you not know that God is capable of all things?
16101-And if We exchange a verse in place of another verse; and God is more aware of what He is revealing; they Say ?You are making this up!? Alas, most of them do not know.
1339-God erases what He wishes and affirms, and with Him is the source of the Scripture.
2142-The foolish from amongst the people will Say ?What has turned them away from the focal point that they were on?? Say ?To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path.?
865-O prophet, urge the believers to fight. If there are twenty of you who are patient, they will defeat two hundred. And if there are one hundred of you, they will defeat one thousand from amongst those who reject; that is because they are a people who do not comprehend.
866-Now, God has lightened for you, for He knows that there is weakness in you. If there are one hundred of you who are patient, they will defeat two hundred. And if there are one thousand of you, they will defeat two thousand by God?s leave. God is with the patient.you wrote
there is no crusifiction, and no cutting of hands or feet in the quran.
533-The recompense of those who fight God and His messenger, and seek to make corruption in the land, is that they will be killed OR CRUCIFIED or THAT THEIR HANDS AND FEET BE CUT OFF ON ALTERNATE SIDES or that they be banished from the land; that is a disgrace for them in this world and in the Hereafter they will have a great retribution.
Innama_ jaza_'ul lazina yuha_ribu_nalla_ha wa rasu_laha_ wa yas'auna fil ardi fasa_dan ay yuqattala_ au yusallabu_ au tuqatta'a aidihim wa arjuluhum min khila_fin au yunfau minal ard(i), zua_lika lahum khizyun fid dunya_ wa lahum fil a_khirati 'aza_bun'azim(un).
word-
root-
N- CALLOSITY, RESISTANT, CAST IRON, LOIN, CRUCIFIXION
V -STIFFEN, CRUCIFY, SEAR, CROSS ONESELFword-
root-
N -CUTTING OFF, CUTOFF, CHOPPING OFF, AMPUTATION, SCISSION, DIVIDING, CESSATION,
V -CUT, AXE, CUT AWAY, CUT OFF, CUT OUT, INTERSECT, SPLIT, TEAR, SEVER, CUT ACROSS, SLIT, CHOP OFF, CUT DOWN, AMPUTATE,word-
root-
leghand
you wrote
you said"I would request you to tell me who you think is the rightly guided translator whose translation I should study? "
your own - i think , using a dictionary may be like lanes and the quranic dictionary or any others recommended on the tools to study the quran mentioned.
Burhans site is brillient for research.
Thanks you brother for your opinion, i am trying to use a dictionary and the burhan site but i have to do a lot of guessing regarding the arabic words so please do correct me if i am wrong.
you wrote
But foremost your own intellect and the common sense - i think
i think this is how we all try to learn wink
Peace.
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Peace agentxxx. How about if those verses on crucifiction and amputations are taken metaphorically. Also the arabic can be translated idiomatically into; restricting their free access and movement.(arms and legs.)Just like the hand cutting verse. This is valid in arabic,i know of one translator that translated it as imprisonment,(muhammed ali of pakistan.)by virtue of one arm and one leg being in binds to restrict movement,as a measure to restrict the spread of crime.
Peace all. -
Peace agentxxx,
See http//www.geocities.com/Athens/4796/cuttoff.htm
Here is another possible translation of 538
538"The thief, male or female, you shall take(i.e.confiscate) their property as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise."
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Peace agentxxx,
See http//www.geocities.com/Athens/4796/cuttoff.htm
Here is another possible translation of 538
538"The thief, male or female, you shall take(i.e.confiscate) their property as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from GOD. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise."
That sort of punishment doesn't happen in real life. By taking away thief's property, one becomes a thief himself. The thief must stand for trial/hearing and if found guilty, punished accordingly. One must take only the property stolen by the thief and given back to their rightful owners. The verse is a bit unclear and doesn't serve a good example, in my understanding.
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peace enquirer,
you wrote
Peace agentxxx. How about if those verses on crucifiction and amputations are taken metaphorically. Also the arabic can be translated idiomatically into; restricting their free access and movement.(arms and legs.)Just like the hand cutting verse. This is valid in arabic,i know of one translator that translated it as imprisonment,(muhammed ali of pakistan.)by virtue of one arm and one leg being in binds to restrict movement,as a measure to restrict the spread of crime.
Bro,I think we can take them metaphorically today, although I don?t think that the people of that time treated them metaphorically? They lived in a different age/time with few generally approved/practiced options available for punishing the culprits, since they couldn?t send the culprits to prisons , they had to punish them there and then according to the nature of their crime.
The bottom line in commandments laid down in the scripture is that those guilty of any crime should be punished this is important to maintain peace and order in a society. The METHOD OF PUNISHMENT can/will vary with the passage of time, and the social setup of a society.
peace.