sex with the captives?
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OK.. slavery AND sex with anyone who does NOT agree to it are both perversions against humanity. Dating the practice is just a cop out. Whether by date or society, there is not justification for this. It's mind boggling. If there IS a Satan, devil Lucifer hell or whatever, both of these acts MUST be the direct result of such a place/being. I cannot believe someone would argue that a god would decree it OK to do either.
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OK.. slavery AND sex with anyone who does NOT agree to it are both perversions against humanity. quote]
Dont' you understand simple English??? How many more times do I have to state that Islam does NOT allow sex with anyone (slave or whoever) who does NOT agree to it. The world culture might allow it, not the Qur'aan.
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That was just a general statement. the fact that it is even in question disturbs me to a degree i cannot possible convey with a simple keyboard. Poeple have to ASK if that is allowed ANTWHERE?? sorry, but that is DAMN disturbing
I guess one doesn't need to be a genius to figure out that your talk is only for the purpose of a confrontation. Therefore, no need to waste any more time ..
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Not at all. It is not to invoke confrontation. i am just a person who is honest about how I feel. I am simply disgusted that someone would have to ask if it is allright to KEEP and acptive and better yet if they can have sex with that captive? How, as a human, can you not see that as distgusting? Anywhere, anytime under any direction, it is simply WRONG! I don't see there being any possibility of a grey area here.
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Peace mz,
Thanks brother for you point of view.
You wroteSalaams all,
especially who think one may have sex with captives-i think not.
My friend it is not a matter of one?s thinking it is to understand what quran says on this issue.
mzThe confusion is you think zawwaj as married and Ma malakat aimanokum Not married-I think.
I understand zawwaj as married but Ma malakat aimanokum can be married or unmarried.
Widows = zawwaj (mate), so they can marry as they are no longer classed as wives.
2240- Waallatheena yutawaffawnaminkum wayatharoona azwajan wasiyyatanli-azwajihim mataAAan ila alhawlighayra ikhrajin fa-in kharajna fala junahaAAalaykum fee ma faAAalna fee anfusihinna min maAAroofinwaAllahu AAazeezun hakeemun
2240- Those of you who die and leave widows should bequeath for their widows a year's maintenance and residence; but if they leave (The residence), there is no blame on you for what they do with themselves, provided it is reasonable. And
Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.See how the other have translate this verse
2240.- And those of you WHO DIE AND LEAVE WIVES BEHIND, (make) a
bequest in favor of their wives of maintenance for a year without turning (them) out, then if they themselves go away, there is no blame on you for what they do of lawful deeds by themselves, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.2240.THOSE WHO DIE AND LEAVE WIVES, a will shall provide their wives with support for a year, provided they stay within the same household. If they leave,you commit no sin by letting them do whatever they wish, so long as righteousness is maintained. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
- And those of you WHO DIE AND LEAVE BEHIND WIVES should bequeath for their wives a year's maintenance and residence without turning them out, but if they (wives) leave, there is no sin on you for that which they do of themselves, provided it is honourable (e.g. lawful marriage). And All?h is All-Mighty, All-Wise. .
2240-(In the case of) those of you WHO ARE ABOUT TO DIE AND LEAVE BEHIND THEM WIVES, they should bequeath unto their wives a provision for the year without turning them out, but if they go out (of their own accord) there is no sin for you in that which they do of themselves within their rights. Allah is Mighty, Wise.
mzWidows = zawwaj (mate), they can marry as they aren?t wives.
Waallatheena yutawaffawnaminkum wayatharoona azwajan yatarabbasnabi-anfusihinna arbaAAata ashhurin waAAashran fa-ithabalaghna ajalahunna fala junaha AAalaykum feemafaAAalna fee anfusihinna bialmaAAroofi waAllahubima taAAmaloona khabeerun
2234-IF ANY OF YOU DIE AND LEAVE WIDOWS BEHIND, they shall wait concerning themselves four months and ten days When they have fulfilled their term, there is no blame on you if they dispose of themselves in a just and reasonable manner. And Allah is well acquainted with what ye do.
See how the other have translate this verse
2234 THOSE AMONG YOU WHO DIE and LEAVE WIVES BEHIND, they shall wait four months and ten days before they remarry. Once they fulfill their interim, the society commits nothing wrong by letting them make their own decisions about their future including remarriage. And Allah is fully Cognizant of all your actions.
2234.Those who die and leave wives, their widows shall wait four months and ten days (before they remarry). Once they fulfill their interim, you commit no error by letting them do whatever righteousmatters they wish to do. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything you do.
- And those of you who die and LEAVE WIVES BEHIND THEM, they (the wives) shall wait (as regards their marriage) for four months and ten days, then when they have fulfilled their term, there is no sin on you if they (the wives) dispose of themselves in a just and honourable manner (i.e. they can marry). And All?h is Well-Acquainted with what you do.
Widow is a word used to distinctively define the status of a married woman. If the husband is alive she is referred to as a wife, if he has died she is referred to as a widow. Logically a widow would mean an ex wife ]. It Can also be referred to as an ex mate of the deceased. Indeed they can marry again.
mz Huwa allathee khalaqakum min nafsinwahidatin wajaAAala minha zawjaha liyaskunailayha falamma taghashshaha hamalathamlan khafeefan famarrat bihi falamma athqalatdaAAawa Allaha rabbahuma la-in ataytanasalihan lanakoonanna mina alshshakireena
It is He Who created you from a single person, and made his mate of like nature, in order that he might dwell with her (in love). When they are united, she bears a light burden and carries it about (unnoticed). When she grows heavy, they both pray to Allah their Lord, (saying) "If Thou givest us a goodly child, we vow we shall (ever) be grateful."- It is He Who has created you from a single person (Adam), and (then) He has created from him his wife , in order that he might enjoy the pleasure of living with her. When he had sexual relation with her, she became pregnant and she carried it about lightly. Then when it became heavy, they both invoked All?h, their Lord (saying) "If You give us a S?lih (good in every aspect) child, we shall indeed be among the grateful." .
mzSo if you say zawwaj = mates , in the same ayah so does Ma Malakat Aimanokum.
????????????
mz1672-WaAllahu jaAAala lakum minanfusikum azwajan wajaAAala lakum min azwajikumbaneena wahafadatan warazaqakum mina alttayyibatiafabialbatili yu/minoona wabiniAAmati Allahihum yakfuroona
And Allah has made for you mates (and companions) of your own nature, and made for you, out of them, sons and daughters and grandchildren, and provided for you sustenance of the best will they then believe in vain things, and be ungrateful for Allah's favours?-1672.And GOD made for you spouses from among yourselves, and produced for you from your spouses children and grandchildren, and provided you with good provisions.
Should they believe in falsehood, and turn unappreciative of GOD's blessings?- And All?h has made for you wives of your own kind, and has made for you, from your wives, sons and grandsons, and has bestowed on you good provision. Do they then believe in false deities and deny the Favour of All?h (by not worshipping All?h Alone).
so zawwaj can be interpreted as. Wives, widows, mates, spouses, but none of the verses quoted by you links it with whom your right hands possess?
mz023.005
Who abstain from sex,
023.006
Except with their mates, or whom their right hands possess,- for then they are free from blame.The above verse makes it clear that you can have sex with your mates/wives or whom your right hands possess. the or in the verse Clearly indicates, two different sex partners to choose from.
mzDivorced women = zawwaj(mate) , and they can also marry .
Divorced women = ex zawwaj free from the bonds of marriage, and of course they can marry again.
CONCLUSION
SO AS A ZAWWAJ CAN BE WIFE AND NOT A WIFE, SO CAN MA-MALAKAT AIMANOKUM.I hope you have understood, if not i will explain again if you like.
Absolutely not brother ? I am sorry I fail to see the link between the two zawwaj and MA-MALAKAT AIMANOKUM.
God bless you.
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peace be upon you zainab,
Dont' you understand simple English??? How many more times do I have to state....
a commanding sister.... lol
zainabThe world culture might allow it, not the Qur'aan.
sis there are dozens of different interpretations and we are all trying to figure out what the truth is? masha allah you seem to have a strong belief and you are convinced on this issue. however there are many who are confused regarding this issue so please sis dont be upset if we disagree with you ) .
God bless you.
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Salaams Agent,
here you go
Nisaa = women ,some you can marry others you can?t.
Zawwaj = women/men can marry .
Ma malakat aimanokum = women/men can marry, but they don?t have the same rights as a zawwaj.They are always called Ma malakat aimanokum even if married as they don?t have the same rights as the Zawwaj who are the free women.
425
If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, they may wed believing girls from among those whom your right hands possess And Allah hath full knowledge about your faith. Ye are one from another Wed them with the leave of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to what is reasonable They should be chaste, not lustful, nor taking paramours when they are taken in wedlock, if they fall into shame, their punishment is half that for free women. This (permission) is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that ye practise self-restraint. And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.You said ?Absolutely not brother I am sorry I fail to see the link between the two zawwaj married/ unmarried and MA-MALAKAT AIMANOKUM.?
The link;
If you see the ayah tells us of the punishment is different to a free woman. So to differentiate they aren?t called Zawwaj.mz023.005
Who abstain from sex,
023.006
Except with their (mates) Zawwaj (who are free), or (mates)whom their right hands possess(who arn't free ),- for then they are free from blame.God Bless.
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There is a great article on Ma malakat aymanukum on the submission webpage that I found not too long ago http//www.submission.org/women/care.html. The points made in the article are very clear and I agree with most of them. I agree that Ma Malakat Aymanukum are not sex slaves. I think that the only meaning of that phrase is "those who you possess," either by servitude or by marriage. I think that the article makes a great point when it talks about 425 and 2433 where believers are told that they can marry MMA, but they must be chaste until marriage. Both parties must maintain morality. Also the mate who wants to marry them must ask permission of their guardian and they are to be free before marriage. This is clearly an order not to take slaves as sexual objects for mere pleasure. Please everyone read the article as I would like to discuss it with others.
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What is wrong is wrong either its 1000 years ago or now.
I understand ?right hand posses? as someone who is your trusted partner, where both has entrusted each other to support and also love each other. These people can be engaged by oath or like bf/gf..
One can claim his/her rights over another person ONLY when the other person have agreed to share his/her rights.
Slavery and captives are a whole different issue.
peace
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Not at all. It is not to invoke confrontation. i am just a person who is honest about how I feel. I am simply disgusted that someone would have to ask if it is allright to KEEP and acptive and better yet if they can have sex with that captive? How, as a human, can you not see that as distgusting? Anywhere, anytime under any direction, it is simply WRONG! I don't see there being any possibility of a grey area here.
You have grossly misunderstood the issue because you want to misunderstand it. So there's not a darn thing anyone can do. Suit yourself with your disgusts and belligerence ..
I'm done with this topic.
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I guess "Ma Malakat Aymanikom" may be equal to the De facto relationships in the western world, where a man live with a woman as been married while they are not legally married, yet she still can take half his money and even all if she has plenty of kids
it is revolting that the westerners donlt see this in themselves
peace to all
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peace all
shamsul wrote
What is wrong is wrong either its 1000 years ago or now.I understand ?right hand posses? as someone who is your trusted partner, where both has entrusted each other to support and also love each other. These people can be engaged by oath or like bf/gf..
One can claim his/her rights over another person ONLY when the other person have agreed to share his/her rights.
Slavery and captives are a whole different issue.
i completely second this
ahmed wrote
I guess "Ma Malakat Aymanikom" may be equal to the De facto relationships in the western world, where a man live with a woman as been married while they are not legally married, yet she still can take half his money and even all if she has plenty of kidsit is revolting that the westerners donlt see this in themselves
come on ahmed, why this reaction. most muslim see MMA as slaves, so why should westerners have a better understanding. AND, even though i consider myself a muslim, i'm still a westerner, and i have the above understanding. What's revolting ?
elke
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Not at all. It is not to invoke confrontation. i am just a person who is honest about how I feel. I am simply disgusted that someone would have to ask if it is allright to KEEP and acptive and better yet if they can have sex with that captive? How, as a human, can you not see that as distgusting? Anywhere, anytime under any direction, it is simply WRONG! I don't see there being any possibility of a grey area here.
You have grossly misunderstood the issue because you want to misunderstand it. So there's not a darn thing anyone can do. Suit yourself with your disgusts and belligerence ..
I'm done with this topic.
When the word used is "captive" and it refers to "slavery" what is there to misunderstand? It's not my translation, and it is not my words. It is my belief that you just do NOT keep "captives" or "slaves". You think I WANT to believe poeple would do this?
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what incredible jingoism !!
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peace be upon you mz,
you wrote
Salaams Agent,here you go
Nisaa = women ,some you can marry others you can?t.
Agreed.
mzZawwaj = women/men can marry .
My understanding is Zawwaj = women/men are already married to.
mzMa malakat aimanokum = women/men can marry, but they don?t have the same rights as a zawwaj.
Excuse me brother according to your definition, zawwaj are women/men can marry? There are millions of women we can marry but what rights do they have before a marriage contract?
If zawaaj = Ma malakat aimanokum, then why are they depicted as two different
Beings separated by an ?or? in 235 and 7030.mzThey are always called Ma malakat aimanokum even if married as they don?t have the same rights as the Zawwaj who are the free women.
Then what about equality in Islam? ZAWWAJ can be a free women or an ex female slave; once you are married to any women she becomes a ZAWWAJ and in no way can be referred to as MMA .
425 says YOU SHALL OBTAIN PERMISSION FROM THEIR GUARDIANS BEFORE YOU MARRY THEM, and pay them their due dowry equitably.
as with marrying other free women]2433- ..And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum) GIVE THEM SUCH A DEED if ye know any good in them;?
425-?Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest?.
The slaves only qualified for a marriage if permitted by their masters Allah says that the masters should grant them their wish and once the wish was granted they were no more slaves but free women/people
The link;
mzIf you see the ayah tells us of the punishment is different to a free woman. So to differentiate they aren?t called Zawwaj.425-.. Once they are freed through marriage, IF THEY COMMIT ADULTERY, THEIR PUNISHMENT SHALL BE HALF OF THAT FOR THE FREE WOMEN?
425-.. when they are taken in wedlock, IF THEY FALL INTO SHAME, THEIR PUNISHMENT IS HALF THAT FOR FREE WOMEN?
Now the suggested half punishment for them as compared to free women doesn?t meant that they in their present state are not free. The comparison is in reference to their original/previous status .
ref425-THOSE AMONG YOU WHO CANNOT AFFORD TO MARRY FREE BELIEVING WOMEN, may marry believing slave women.
As for why their punishment is half as compared to free women.
2433- ?BUT FORCE NOT YOUR MAIDS TO PROSTITUTION when they desire chastity in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. BUT IF ANYONE COMPELS THEM YET AFTER SUCH COMPULSION is Allah Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful (to them).
2433-?YOU SHALL NOT FORCE YOUR GIRLS TO COMMIT PROSTITUTION, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. IF ANYONE FORCES THEM, then GOD, SEEING THAT THEY ARE FORCED, is Forgiver, Merciful.
A female slave might have gone through some appalling phases in her life hence she may lack in the understanding of values like morality/virtue etc as compared to a free woman, so keeping her background in view, half punishment has been suggested.
If we ponder on 2433 there is another confusion? The verse say don?t force them into prostitution if they want to remain chaste. So..
Is it right to assume, that if they agreed then it was ok?
no punishment have been suggested even for those who would force them into prostitution? Although forgiveness for the one?s who are forced into it is assured.If we ponder on verse 425 we see that marriage to a female slave is discouraged
425-?. MARRYING A SLAVE SHALL BE A LAST RESORT FOR THOSE UNABLE TO WAIT. To be patient is better for you. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
so brother mz i am still ?
God bless you.
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Salaams Br,
Zawwaj = women created to be your mates.
Ma malakat aimanokum = women who can be your mates aswell !Ya ayyuha alnnasuittaqoo rabbakumu allathee khalaqakum min nafsin wahidatinwakhalaqa minha zawjaha wabaththa minhumarijalan katheeran wanisaan waittaqoo Allahaallathee tasaaloona bihi waal-arhamainna Allaha kana AAalaykum raqeeban
O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you) for Allah ever watches over you.1 .Zawwaj = women who could be /or are your wives.
2 .Ma malakat aimanokum = who could be /or are your wives.Both 1. and 2. have different rights.
Allah says (in a few ayah's )
you may marry no 1. or you can marry of the no 2.
Then Allah says
you can go into no 1. or 2.
Arn't they simply being differentiated the second time as Allah differentiated them first aswell?And as their rights as you said are somewhat different.
Salaams.
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Peace mz,
You wrote
Zawwaj = women created to be your mates.
Ma malakat aimanokum = women who can be your mates aswell !Zawwaj = mate companion = pair = wife .
Ma malakat aimanokum = those whom thy right hand possesses slaves war captives concubines mistress etc .
Only believers among them can be your mates or life partner , but after marriage they can?t be referred to as MMA They become wives.
3350-O Prophet! Lo! We have made LAWFUL unto thee THY WIVES unto whom thou hast paid their dowries,
Ya_ ay yuhan nabiy yu in na_ ahlalna_ laka AZWA_JAKAL la_til uju_rahun naAnd those whom thy right hand possesseth of those, whom Allah hath given thee as SPOILS OF WAR,
wa MA_ MALAKAT yaminuka mim ma_ afa_ al la_hu alaika wa bana_ti am mikaand the daughters of thine uncle on the father's side and the daughters of thine aunts on the father's side, and the daughters of thine uncles on the mother's side emigrated with thee, and a believing woman if she give herself unto the Prophet and the Prophet desire to ask her in marriage, A PRIVILEGE FOR THEE ONLY, not for the (rest of) believers.
wa bana_ti am ma_tika wa bana_ti ha-lika wa bana_ti ha_la_tikal la_ti ha_jarna ma'ak wamra atam muminatan iw wahabat nafsaha_ lin nabiy yi in ara_dan nabiy yu ay yastankihaha_ ha_lishatal laka min du_nil mumininWe are aware of that which We enjoined upon them concerning THEIR WIVES and those whom their right hands possess that thou mayst be free from blame, for Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
qad alimna_ ma_ faradna_ alaihim fi AZWA_JIHIM wa MA_ MALAKAT AIMA_NUHUM likaila_ yaku_na alaika haraj wa ka_nal la_hu gafu_rur rahima_Since Arabic is not my native tongue please ignore any incompatibility between the English and the Arabic quoted above, thanks.
God bless you.
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Allah says (in a few ayah's )
you may marry no 1. or you can marry of the no 2.
Then Allah says
you can go into no 1. or 2.
Salaams.
Salaams and peace mz ..
Please quote all those Ayahs from the Qur'aan . Just for my information ..