gay people and islam
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I can understand that if someone wishes to be muslim, that another muslim can say "not if you are "actively" gay". I mean it is the rule of the religion. but if someone chooses to believe something else, I don't see the right to condemn them. Isn't that the job of God? as long as they are not asking you to be gay, why should it bother you? Perhaps it is a simplistic view but then that brings us back to occum's Razor. Just look at things simply, don't make it so complicated. the more complicated you make it, the more you contradict yourself.
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Peace be upon you Peaceful Muslim,
I am waaay behind, but I really dont have much more to say about this topic, the right way is clear from the wrong.
The sexual act is done until orgasm, the purpose of male semen coming out is to be connected with an egg, therefore the human with a penis and the human with a vagina are DESIGNED to go together.
Homo SEX uality is incorrect based on OBSERVABLE PROOF in relationship to its design.
And anyways, why should we talk about their sexual act? So, u dont think its natural or normal? Fair enough.
What does "fair" have to do with it? Do you agree or not regarding the sex act in relationship to the design?
But if 2 consensual partners are biologically inclined to feel so, why are we to be concerned?
You have no proof of the biological inclination.
We can only get concerned if the act harms those involved or others. Does it?
It does involve others. You have to be blind not to understand in this day and age the power of media propoganda. People are "trying" homosexuality all over the place, which is evidence of the MENTAL DISORDER that this really is.
O well, u might say the action itself is sinful no matter how normal or natural its for them.
Natural? Whats natural about using a penis in the incorrect manner DESIGNED? If you are going against DESIGN, how can that be natural? Thats a misude of the word.
Why not let God decide that? He would judge every act, every belief of every soul taking into consideration every tiny factor and judge in the most fair way. So, lets leave it to Him to judge how wrong the act is.
Yes, the God IS Judging, through the mouths of those who are purifying thier SPIRITS/MINDS (nafs), so the God's Law flows through thier vehicle.
Or are we not to speak out against whats wrong as "Koran" states CLEARLY. How can we speak out if we are not to judge?
By 'plugs' and 'sockets', I think, u r implying the physical body, right? In that case, life is much more than plugs and sockets. Definitely.
Sure, but all of life is based on the concept of yin and yang. The God created all things in pairs. Imagine the day with no night, or the cold without heat. How could one find balance without the duality of life? In order to obtain the OBJECTIVE PROOF of a relationship so we can get to TRUTH, we must bring this to the physical world. Which brings us to the relationship of penis and vagina, which is clear.
Yeah, God created all things in pairs.......The same God created hermaphrodites
Thats a genetic disorder by way of VISUAL, OBJECTIVE ABNORMALITY. Hardly comparable.
.......... The same God created Homosexuals. So, Now what shall we do?
Following your reasoning by way of no objective proof, we have to say the God created murderers, thieves, child molesters, etc. SHould we make rights for them and make sure all TV shows have a representative of thier group and a lobby group, etc?
And who knows...Homosexuals might have yin & yang too?
Exactly, all of creation has yin and yang, and the penis on a human is YANG while the vagina is YIN, very clear arrangement.
If you can figure out what to do with your door key when you get home, the you should be able to figure this out. D
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Peace be upon you Sawtooth,
Well the human digestive system is meant ONLY to accept what we need to sustain life, yet I am sure more than a few of us eat simply because it tastes good
Yes, it that is incorrect. That is following the footsteps of "shayteen" (emotions). Then you have those who cannot transcend the URGE to eat pork sausage (no pun intended) with no regard to the DESIGN trying to say they were "born" fat an can't help theirselves, etc.
We must understand that life is not about "likes" and "dislikes", its about form and function, its about submitting in PEACE to the correct ORDER of life. Isn't that why we dont go around hoarding money, even though we like money? Shayteen are your EMOTIONS, a dumb blind animal passion that will lead you to your demise. The human is suppossed to be the RULER of the emotions, as Solomon (S-L-M) teaches us. The "devil' is not "Out there", it is the enslavement to your emotions.
FASTING helps to gain control of the animal again.
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So doing anything "just because you enjoy it" is wrong? Geez, talk about not showing apreciation for the wonders of creation. So swimming when there is not need it out, excersise just because it is fun is out, no more chocolate treats or bubble gum, no make up, no shaving ect.... UUUMMMM. I'll pass.
Two choices in life, get busy living... or get busy dying.
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Peace be upon you Sawtooth,
So doing anything "just because you enjoy it" is wrong?
You fail to understand. Remain patient with me and I can give you clarity on the subject.
Question, is there anything that you "enjoyed" when you were young but dont "enjoy" now? Or vice versa, something you did not "enjoy" when young but do "enjoy" now? Spirituality relies on our ability to recognize that there is a part of BEING that is the SEER, that does not change, while there is another part that always changes. The Key is to recognize that you must identify with the UNCHANGING PART, and that you are responsible for directing the CHANGING PART.
"Enjoyment" can be CULTIVATED fr any action. Some people cultivate the "enjoyment" of molesting children or smoking Crack. Would you respond the same way to the one who "enjoys" smoking Crack as you did above?
So doing anything "just because you enjoy it" is wrong
The answer is YES! We must submit peacefully to LAW, not to our emotions (the animal). Once we reason by way of LAW what the proper response is to a situation, THEN we can allow "enjoyment" of the act. It is the "enjoyment" that BINDS YOU/CHAINS you to the act, so you have to be very careful. Look at the battered wife you cant leave teh obvious PERVERSE situation because she is CHAINED by the emotion of "love".
This is CRUCIAL for those of us who pursue spiritual guidance, to understand the role of emotions. Jesus said "Get BEHIND ME Satan", meaning the emotions are to follow. It is the ANIMATING principle that is the ENERGY factor of life.
Geez, talk about not showing apreciation for the wonders of creation.
How so? LAW does not restrict one from enjoying the sweet smell of the Rose. If the ACT is in acordance with LAW, then and only then can we allow "enjoyment" to follow.
So swimming when there is not need it out
Exercise is always needed, go ahead and enjoy it Just dont be so blinded by the enjoymen that you go swimming in shark infested waters or dirty rivers, etc. Dont be led by the emotions, do you see what I mean?
excersise just because it is fun is out
Exercise is great of the human vehicle, go ahead and allow "enjoyment" to follow if you are doing the proper workout.
, no more chocolate treats or bubble gum, no make up, no shaving ect.... UUUMMMM. I'll pass.
Some people FOLLOW the emotional urge to eat chocolate so much they get diabetes, do you condone that? What about the mouth cancer caused by eating a lot of gum? We must reason first then let the emotion follow.
Two choices in life, get busy living... or get busy dying.
Correct, and death is following emotions, Life is DECIDING BASED ON LAW and directing the emotions, it will give you a kingdom like no other (Solomon), now thats LIVING!
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Well the human digestive system is meant ONLY to accept what we need to sustain life, yet I am sure more than a few of us eat simply because it tastes good
lol, nice try saw
God told there are things to do and things not to do
unfortuantly for many, God told us that Homosexuals are wrong and are bound to hell
if any enjoy that type of filthy sex, then they have to be willing to pay the price for it without whininig
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Well the human digestive system is meant ONLY to accept what we need to sustain life, yet I am sure more than a few of us eat simply because it tastes good
lol, nice try saw
God told there are things to do and things not to do
unfortuantly for many, God told us that Homosexuals are wrong and are bound to hell
if any enjoy that type of filthy sex, then they have to be willing to pay the price for it without whininig
Well i hardly here homosexuals complaining that it is GOD who is unfair and that they are actually afraid of going to hell. I think they are just sick of people running around TELLING them they will go to hell. We have feet right? So what is with pouring so much into a car? And then posting it for all to see. Is that vanity? Is that a waste of time and energy? You cannot say something is wrong for one person for a particular reason and then nix that reason when it comes to yourself. Indulgence is either wrong or it is not.
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Well the human digestive system is meant ONLY to accept what we need to sustain life, yet I am sure more than a few of us eat simply because it tastes good
lol, nice try saw
God told there are things to do and things not to do
unfortuantly for many, God told us that Homosexuals are wrong and are bound to hell
if any enjoy that type of filthy sex, then they have to be willing to pay the price for it without whininig
Well i hardly here homosexuals complaining that it is GOD who is unfair and that they are actually afraid of going to hell.
really, isnlt the mardi crap a sort of protesting?
I think they are just sick of people running around TELLING them they will go to hell.
there is nothing wrong in that, at least it is not our hell, but we are the ones who are sick of them manipulating and deceiving our children at public schools
We have feet right?
and the innocent children have more right than us, because they know nothing
So what is with pouring so much into a car? And then posting it for all to see. Is that vanity?
did God told us anywhere that this an act humans should not do?, NO
consequently you have no point and was a silly example, try another one
Is that a waste of time and energy?
absolutely not, i learn a lot in the process and I pass on what I learnt to others, this is what i call enjoying life while keeping the faith and abiding by God's laws
You cannot say something is wrong for one person for a particular reason and then nix that reason when it comes to yourself. Indulgence is either wrong or it is not.
come one, please, please give me a bloody break and post some reasonable argument for me so i get my damn brain working a bit
God did not say in the Quran "do not take care of your car", in fact God even metaphorically said that humans will love their cars lol , I'm not bloody kiddin here, would you like to see the verse?
on the other hand God told us that homosexuality is an aweful sin and should be avoided all He will be very angry with us as He was with Gommarah and Pompeii
see how you absolutely got it wrong?
whom exactly you want to kid?, I know
it must be a little kid lol
cheers
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there ARE more than a few references to vanity though, which WULD be doing more to a car than just making sure it works properly or using it as a status symbol. As far as Mardi gras, I think you are quite uneducated ont eh subject, and I don't have the time or patients to school you in the history of the celebration right now. And what are you going on about as far as homosexuals screwing with the kids in schools? As I recall I don't remember any of the recent abuse, teacher student sexual relationships or violence having anything to do with homosexuals. Another subject I don't feel I should have to educate you in. I would love to introduce you the God of the modern age, it's called GOOGLE. I am not sure what you are trying to wrap your brain around as it seems to change to suit your end of the argument here.
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I see the homophobic filth is out in force again, and not surprise to see AB and Idolfree are leading the assualt.
Do they know God's design and purpose better than anyone else.
God creates what he wills for whatever puprose he wills. God creates hemaphrodites, eunichs, babies with AIS and many other sexual indenties. But you are blind to all that and always will be.
Backwards and stuck in your prejudices, only adopting the "God alone" stance to ligthen your burden, and inventing your religion without knowledge or reason.
It is your homophobia that has led to homosexuals seeking an identity and recognition. The more you push the more they will get in your face.
So make your peace, before they turn you gay shock
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Wow. I thought Kyle spoke with eloquence and patience on the subject.
What's with the backlash? ? Is anyone else allowed to have a different opinion?... or is that reserved for homosexuals only. roll
Talk about homophobia phobia! lol
Peace people, let's continue the discussion civilly... yes that goes for everyone, me included.
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there ARE more than a few references to vanity though, which WULD be doing more to a car than just making sure it works properly or using it as a status symbol.
LOL, and how do you know that I don;t look into its mechanics and make sure it is sound?
well, let me tell you dear, I fly with my car, and if everything is not in perfect condition "including the tyres" I would have dead long ago, I think your argument is gettin sillier now wink
As far as Mardi gras, I think you are quite uneducated ont eh subject, and I don't have the time or patients to school you in the history of the celebration right now.
another ignorant statement by you about me, well dear, I live in Sydney, The capital of homos and Mardi crap, I knw its history better than you, I even atytended the one with my wife when I came to australia 15 years ago and was bloody disgusted, it also comes life on TV every year, lol you have no knowledge indeed regarding this matter
And what are you going on about as far as homosexuals screwing with the kids in schools? As I recall I don't remember any of the recent abuse, teacher student sexual relationships or violence having anything to do with homosexuals.
back again to the saame bloody point that I refuted irefutably, it is not about molesting children, it is about deceiving them and showing them study materials with two dads in their, this is a clear cut lie, donlt you think?, the kids know nothing and now we are telling them here tony with his two dads, give a 888888 break, will ya?
as I said, you do this with your children , not bloody force it into public schools
you go and buy all the homo oriented crap and do it with your child, not with the public children please
Another subject I don't feel I should have to educate you in.
you the one who needs to be educated about raising the3 children in a healthy enviroment
fpor me anyone who cares for the homes and don;t give a fluke about children is the lowest of the lows on planet earth
I would love to introduce you the God of the modern age, it's called GOOGLE.
no thanks, you can follow this god called google, I'm sure he does not have any hell to worry about
i only use goolge to search the net
what a coincidence
I am not sure what you are trying to wrap your brain around as it seems to change to suit your end of the argument here.
Haha, I don't change my principals because it is very well founded and based on the guidance of the Quran, not my delusioned crap
I have no problem with the homos other than their manipulation to children via the filthy material they force into public schools
as well their display of filth in public in their shamefull non sense called mardi crap
it is all about the public as you can see
but the homos and their activist don't give a fluke about the public including the innocent children and that is why I will always stand in fron of them all
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I see the homophobic filth is out in force again, and not surprise to see AB and Idolfree are leading the assualt.
I see someone calling Allah law a filth, lol now that is called being caught red handed
also I hope you will not be surprised any more as you will always see me conveying the message of the scriptures strongly and with passion regarding the filth of homosexuals and the their hetro activists the hetro bashers
Do they know God's design and purpose better than anyone else.
dont you know that God forbids homosexuality, called them criminals and promised them with hell?
God creates what he wills for whatever puprose he wills. God creates hemaphrodites, eunichs, babies with AIS and many other sexual indenties. But you are blind to all that and always will be.
Haha, are you insane to blame God for homosexuality? I guess your account is going to be one of the toughest D
Backwards and stuck in your prejudices,
yeh the prejudice of God, not our prejudice, we only following what God said clearly and left signs for us as well
only adopting the "God alone" stance to ligthen your burden, and inventing your religion without knowledge or reason.
good, I'm not one of those who invents neither adopt human made concepts, i only adopt the holy scriptures and it was clear that homnos are criminals
It is your homophobia that has led to homosexuals seeking an identity and recognition. The more you push the more they will get in your face.
and it is to their hetrophobia and their public schools poisining that led hetors and caring parents to start taking a stand
So make your peace, before they turn you gay shock
what is that?
it sounds you have tendancy to me wink
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Well the only conclusion i can draw is that it is pointless to discuss many issues with you. I can't follow where you are going with anything and we are never to see eye to eye. I have no problem with you having personal distaste for anything for any reason, but don't smash someone for NOT. All I challenged was the reasoning you gave for your stance, not you personally.
I consider this discussion as far as you Ahmed, and myself are concerned, Fine` -
Hey Kyle
Your excellent point regarding the design is actually mentioned in the Quran
It is made lawful to you to go into your wives on the night of the fast; they are an apparel for you and you are an apparel for them; Allah knew that you acted unfaithfully to yourselves, so He has turned to you (mercifully) and removed from you (this burden); so now be in contact with them and seek what Allah has ordained for you, and eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till night, and have not contact with them while you keep to the mosques; these are the limits of Allah, so do not go near them. Thus does Allah make clear His communications for men that they may guard (against evil).
(187)
Peace
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Well the only conclusion i can draw is that it is pointless to discuss many issues with you. I can't follow where you are going with anything and we are never to see eye to eye. I have no problem with you having personal distaste for anything for any reason, but don't smash someone for NOT. All I challenged was the reasoning you gave for your stance, not you personally.
I consider this discussion as far as you Ahmed, and myself are concerned, Fine`Saw, I'm nopt sure what you are going on here
if you agree that TWO FATHERS IS A CLEAR CUT LIE, then why you want to lie to the inncoent kids in masses?
can a child be born from two dads?
NO
I rest my case
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Well, a child whose is born to one father, but the mother at some point remarries, that child calls two people DAD. In my opinion, if a child is being loved, provided with a strong sense of family support and sent out into the world able to care for itself and not go on a killing spree, than ANY parent, no matter who or how many or in what combination, is doing a good job. I have no personal law that says to do otherwise. I have met children brought up in in any number of circumstances and some that would have given anything just to have ANYONE love them and be there for them EVER. There are millions of unwanted unloved children in the world. i would rather ANYONE capable stood up and took the job of being a GOOD parent than any child be left to live without family.
Seeing as you would choose to leave them in ANY situation provided it was not with a homosexual parent, we will never agree or even come close, therefore I choose to end the debate and discussion as I am just getting red under the collar and I don't like that.
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Well, a child whose is born to one father, but the mother at some point remarries, that child calls two people DAD.
wrong answer saw, I mean bilogically, not bloody emotionally
In my opinion, if a child is being loved, provided with a strong sense of family support and sent out into the world able to care for itself and not go on a killing spree, than ANY parent, no matter who or how many or in what combination, is doing a good job.
this is irrellevent, because it is a clear cut lie to tell the children that Tony has two dads, this must confuse any child
I have no personal law that says to do otherwise.
yeh but you have a personal god who follows you
I have met children brought up in in any number of circumstances and some that would have given anything just to have ANYONE love them and be there for them EVER. There are millions of unwanted unloved children in the world. i would rather ANYONE capable stood up and took the job of being a GOOD parent than any child be left to live without family.
to take abused children and make them live with gay couples is damn further abuse to them
Seeing as you would choose to leave them in ANY situation provided it was not with a homosexual parent,
if the homos will tell the child that they are just sinners and homosesuality is big sin and will lead to hell if god exist, then fine for them to adopt those poor children
also you have shifted the bloody subject here, I"M TALKING ABOUT THE FILTHY MATERIAL AND LIES BEEN INJECTED INTO OUR PUBLIC SCHOOLS
what that has to do with poor/abused children?, for me it is nothing but further abuse
we will never agree or even come close,
of course, because you fear no god and believe only in this life, and I fear the only God and beliieve in this life and the heraafter
therefore I choose to end the debate and discussion as I am just getting red under the collar and I don't like that.
dood, was nice to debate it with you saw
all the best
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Ummm "dood" is short for doodie, I believe the word you were looking for is "DUDE" (uummm a little English language lesson for ya, if you are not sure about slang, don't use it, no offense just honest)
As for the rest, you have never asked what I fear or why or what I believe in as far as life so you cannot possibly comment on it.
Everything is obviously opinion to which we have free will to thank. you have your, I mine. You can say it is all religion, but i have seen your brothers and sisters of Islam disagree with you just as much. It is opinion and how we choose to interpret our personal beliefs. If you dislike homosexuals as you do, then no matter what you will find a way to justify that. If you do not PERSONALLY have a problem with it then you are not so much going to question your religious teaching but you will be less likely to justify hate aggression or just plain being mean with them.
Personally I could care less what person does with their sexuality and that goes for my own family as well (though I do hope none of my children are homosexual only because of the hatred that will be thrown their way if they are). If my beliefs had a rule against it, well, I would not be able to live that kind of inner conflict between what I KNOW is right or wrong and what something TELLS me is. So I wouldn't stick with that religion for long.
None of this makes much sense, I am tired of this conversation and I am tired of religion used as a justification for hatred aggression and just plain being mean. i have seen ALOT of that today and it is wearing on me