gay people and islam

unknownuser

Peace elke. Beautifully expressed.

unknownuser

Hi all,

Getting back to the discussion, Here's something interesting.

It is worth noting though that many medical and scientific organisations do believe it is impossible to change a person's sexual orientation and displayed in a statement by American Academy of Pediatrics, American Counseling Association, American Association of School Administrators, American Federation of Teachers, American Psychiatric Association, American Psychological Association, American School Health Association, Interfaith Alliance Foundation, National Association of School Psychologists, National Association of Social Workers, and National Education Association, in 1999 reading

The most important fact about 'reparative therapy,' also sometimes known as 'conversion' therapy, is that it is based on an understanding of homosexuality that has been rejected by all the major health and mental health professions. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a 'cure.' ...health and mental health professional organizations do not support efforts to change young people's sexual orientation through 'reparative therapy' and have raised serious concerns about its potential to do harm.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_medical_science

In 1998, the American Psychological Association stated that the psychological profession's view on homosexuality and mental health was, "the reality is that homosexuality is not an illness. It does not require treatment and is not changeable."
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation

Peace!

JHamza

Not my answer but the translation of the Quran

Surah 7

We also (sent) Lut He said to his people "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you?
"For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds."
And his people gave no answer but this they said, "Drive them out of your city these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!"
But we saved him and his family, except his wife she was of those who legged behind.
And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone) Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime!

The sin and crime being referred to is the act of homosexuality,it says they practised their lust on men rather then with women...

unknownuser

Peace be upon you JHamza,

You forgot to highlight the part where it says that no people in creation committed before you.

Some might think that dismisses the fact that it was homosexuality, but the explanation is that none before YOU could have done it or YOU would not be here to talk about it because Homosexuals dont create children.

unknownuser

Peace

ahmed wrote

to follow the religion you must follow what it says not what you say

a a general idea, not directed at ahmed only what you mean might be to be a muslim you must understand what i understand... just beware wink

lk

Peace

sure, that is why we have the preserved and clear arabic Quran, so for non arabs to come and translate it the way they want to suit their needs is unacceptable, while the CLEAR ARABIC WORDS ARE OBVIOUS TO ANY NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER

the Quran actually mentioned those who change the meanings of Allah words

so forget my opinion and others, let's look at the Arabic Quran as being arabic not looking at it in english and get confused by saying the word should be translated as such instead of as such, that is why homosexuality is a crime in the arabic communities because of the clear aarbic words prohibiting it in the Quran, not to say that there is non in the arab world, ironcially there are many homos in the arab world, the punishment is 3 months in jail, which I guess they should love it inside

peace

unknownuser

Peace JHamza,

Thanks for the verses.

R u aware of any other verses regarding homosexuality in Quran?

And also, can u explain ur understanding of 'Polygamy' mentioned in Quran?

Peace!

unknownuser

Peace Idolfree1,

Peace be upon you JHamza,
You forgot to highlight the part where it says that no people in creation committed before you.

Some might think that dismisses the fact that it was homosexuality, but the explanation is that none before YOU could have done it or YOU would not be here to talk about it because Homosexuals dont create children.

R u for the first time taking verses in the literal sense instead of metaphorising them? ) How come? U have metaphorised everything in the entire Quran ..........even the idea of God, Heaven, Hell, Mohammed, iblis etc. U claim not to believe a person named Mohammed exsisted becoc u have no direct knowledge about him. Did u know the people of Lot by urself?wink Did u witness their deeds? How exactly did u verify them?

Or Is that becoz these verses might be in ur favour wink that u choose to specifically give a literal meaning to it?

Peace!

unknownuser

Peace AhmedBahgat,

sure, that is why we have the preserved and clear arabic Quran, so for non arabs to come and translate it the way they want to suit their needs is unacceptable, while the CLEAR ARABIC WORDS ARE OBVIOUS TO ANY NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER

O yeah, Is that why the native Arab speakers of the arab world also practise opression of women, stoning, blowing up innocent civilians with bombs, polygamy(in some cases it doesnt stop with 4....I understand osama's dad had 50 wives), child marriage, killing kafirs etc? Did these native arab speakers understand all these obvious details from the clear arabic words of Quran?

Peace!

unknownuser

Peace AhmedBahgat,

sure, that is why we have the preserved and clear arabic Quran, so for non arabs to come and translate it the way they want to suit their needs is unacceptable, while the CLEAR ARABIC WORDS ARE OBVIOUS TO ANY NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER

O yeah, Is that why the native Arab speakers of the arab world also practise opression of women, stoning, blowing up innocent civilians with bombs, polygamy(in some cases it doesnt stop with 4....I understand osama's dad had 50 wives), child marriage, killing kafirs etc? Did these native arab speakers understand all these obvious details from the clear arabic words of Quran?

Peace!

Peace

oh yeh , that is why Allah said there will be hypocrits from the arabs wink

but you are stretching it a bit really

forget Usama, who the hell is he?

what is all about killing the kafirs?, i have never seen this happening in any muslim country, oh yeh the press was overwhelming to you

and what this child marriage you are talking about?, would you care to elborate please?

also I have to tell you that Iran, Afganistan, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonasia, are not bloody arabs

therefore you missed the plot here, I'm talking about the highly educated arabs, not the arabs from behind the cow

peace

TheNabi

Peace

Or Is that becoz these verses might be in ur favour that u choose to specifically give a literal meaning to it?

What is metaphorical does not have to be not literal. If you think that because the reading is interpreted metaphorically that it is not literal than I disagree with you here. I think you have misunderstood Kyle because he has given the metaphor, but like I said they can be literal which you have clearly ascertained. You have not seen the metaphor.

Joe

unknownuser

Peace Ahmed Bahgat,

oh yeh , that is why Allah said there will be hypocrits from the arabs wink

What do u think these people say Allah call those muslims who dont agree with their interpretation wink

but you are stretching it a bit really

Am I?wink

forget Usama, who the hell is he?

A NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER, I believe.)

what is all about killing the kafirs?, i have never seen this happening in any muslim country, oh yeh the press was overwhelming to you

I've seen muslims shouting out 'killl kafirs' and holding such banners in news, most often during demonstrations.

and what this child marriage you are talking about?, would you care to elborate please?

To start,
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4440

also I have to tell you that Iran, Afganistan, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonasia, are not bloody arabs

What about SAudi Arabia? Rnt they the arabs? wink

therefore you missed the plot here, I'm talking about the highly educated arabs, not the arabs from behind the cow

) Dont all NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKERS know arabic language?

sure, that is why we have the preserved and clear arabic Quran, so for non arabs to come and translate it the way they want to suit their needs is unacceptable, while the CLEAR ARABIC WORDS ARE OBVIOUS TO ANY NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER

OK, Now u mean the educated ones.......fine, Isnt the king of Saudi Arabia an educated Arab? Even Osama Bin Laden was an educated graduate wink He earned a degree in economics and public administation from King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah in 1981.

Peace!

unknownuser

Peace Ahmed Bahgat,

peace sister

oh yeh , that is why Allah said there will be hypocrits from the arabs wink

What do u think these people say Allah call those muslims who dont agree with their interpretation wink

I don't give a fluke on what they think unless they come to me and tell me I'm wrong then I will prove them wrong, very simple, in a way the confrontation must happen one day

but you are stretching it a bit really

Am I?wink

of course wink

forget Usama, who the hell is he?

A NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER, I believe.)

I wonder how an educated woman like you takes a thug as an example and a leader?, well, you can take him an exmaple to you or to the confused muslims in the middle east and Isia, but please don't force him on me, thanks

what is all about killing the kafirs?, i have never seen this happening in any muslim country, oh yeh the press was overwhelming to you

I've seen muslims shouting out 'killl kafirs' and holding such banners in news, most often during demonstrations.

what a comeplling evidenc that is wink , sorry, inadmissable

simply, we see many kafirs living in these countries i wonder why they don't kill them?

and what this child marriage you are talking about?, would you care to elborate please?

To start,
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4440

no sister, I want you to elaborate in a short paragraph, I really don't have time to go through other material now, I have enough in hand, just explain to me your understanding, thanks

also I have to tell you that Iran, Afganistan, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonasia, are not bloody arabs

What about SAudi Arabia? Rnt they the arabs? wink

so what?, or do you mean because the Kaaba is there then the S A is the Islamic leader or somethin?, wel,l my guess most kings of that country will burn in hell

therefore you missed the plot here, I'm talking about the highly educated arabs, not the arabs from behind the cow

) Dont all NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKERS know arabic language?

of course not, they all know how to speak the public arabic, you know the street language style, now to judge the Quran, please don't bring me a junkie from the arab streets, we need a high intellect (educated) unbiased fluent arabic speaker

for example Ali Sina on faith freedom, he claims to be a fluent Arabic speaker, and I may agree with that, I will also agree that he may be highly educated in the scriptures, but is he biased?, oh yeh he is

see we need many factors to come togther for the perfect understanding of the Quran, now the others who can't get all these factors, can ask the ones who have it

sure, that is why we have the preserved and clear arabic Quran, so for non arabs to come and translate it the way they want to suit their needs is unacceptable, while the CLEAR ARABIC WORDS ARE OBVIOUS TO ANY NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER

OK, Now u mean the educated ones.......fine, Isnt the king of Saudi Arabia an educated Arab?

I don't really know about that, as i don't give a fluke about the king of S A, who the hell is he?, oh yeh aother human who pisses like us, fart like us and dies like us, the king never wrote a book explaining the Quran anyway, you have no point here really

Even Osama Bin Laden was an educated graduate wink He earned a degree in economics and public administation from King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah in 1981.

Peace!

I'm sorry you got this really wrong, when I said highly educated, I meant exactly as how the Quran described it which is the knoweldge of Allah and the scriptures not the knowledge of economics and atoms

cheers

unknownuser

Peace AhmedBahgat,

forget Usama, who the hell is he?

A NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER, I believe.)

I wonder how an educated woman like ya takes a thug as an example and a leader?, well you can take him an exmaple to you or to the confused muslims in the middle east and Isia, but please don't force him on me, thanks

rotfl Where on earth did u get that idea that I take him as an example and leader?
He is an example of NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER though wink

and what this child marriage you are talking about?, would you care to elborate please?

To start,
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4440

no sister, I want you to elborate, in a short paragraph, I really don;t have time to go through other material now, I have enough in hand, just explain to me your understanding, thanks

I am giving u facts.

also I have to tell you that Iran, Afganistan, Turkey, Pakistan, Indonasia, are not bloody arabs

What about SAudi Arabia? Rnt they the arabs? wink

so what, or do you mean because the Kaaba is there, then the S A is the Islamic leader or somethin, well my guess most kinfgs of that country will burn in hell

therefore you missed the plot here, I'm talking about the highly educated arabs, not the arabs from behind the cow

) Dont all NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKERS know arabic language?

of course not, they all know how to speak the public arabicm, you know the street language, now to judhge the Quran, please don't bring me a junkie from the arabs street, we need a high intellect unbiased fluent arabic speaker
for example Ali Sina on faith freedom, he claims to be a fluent Arabic speaker, and I may agree with that, I will also agree that he may be highly educated, but is he biased?, oh yeh he is
see we need many factors to come togther for the perfect understanding of the Quran, now the others who can't get all these factors, can ask the ones who have it

sure, that is why we have the preserved and clear arabic Quran, so for non arabs to come and translate it the way they want to suit their needs is unacceptable, while the CLEAR ARABIC WORDS ARE OBVIOUS TO ANY NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER

OK, Now u mean the educated ones.......fine, Isnt the king of Saudi Arabia an educated Arab?

I don't really know about that, as i don't give a fluke about the king of S A, who the hell is he?, oh yeh aother human who pisses like us, fart like us and dies like us, the king never wrote a book explaining the Quran anyway, you have no point here really

Even Osama Bin Laden was an educated graduate wink He earned a degree in economics and public administation from King Abdulaziz University in Jeddah in 1981.

I'm sorry you got this really wrong, when I said highly educated, I meant exactly as how the Quran described it which is the knoweldge of Allah and the scriptures not the knowledge of economics and atoms

U can see quite clealy from our conversation how false the following statement is

sure, that is why we have the preserved and clear arabic Quran, so for non arabs to come and translate it the way they want to suit their needs is unacceptable, while the CLEAR ARABIC WORDS ARE OBVIOUS TO ANY NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKER

Peace!

unknownuser

Sister just a quick note

yeh they know the words meanig, but do they follow it?, THAT IS ANOTHER STORY SISTER, DON'T MIX THINGS UP

an example for you are the arab christians who understand arabic well, sure they understand the majority of the Quran, but do they follow it?

NO

i still insist you have no point, and many on this web site and the whole world are not qualified to explain the Quran

peace

unknownuser

sister i read your comment

now it is a shame you use a thug and a mass murderer as an example

i reject your flawed example of a thug and mass mureder bound to hell, that you consider him a native arabic speaker who is qualified to explain the Quran, can you show me an article he wrote explaining verses from the Quran?

JUST ONE VERSE SISTER

regarding the facts?

what faccts exactly?

I need your own understanding please

peace

unknownuser

Peace AhmedBahgat,

Sister just a quick note
yeh they know the words measnig, but doid they follow it?, THAT IS ANOTHER STORY SISTER, DON'T MIX THINGS UP
an example for you are the arab christians who understand arabic well, sure they understand many of the majority of the Qurna, but do they follow it?

The people I gave examples are of those NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKERS who claim to be understanding & following the CLEAR ARABIC QURAN correctly.

i still insist you have no point

And I have proven to u that u have no point. )

Peace!

unknownuser

Peace AhmedBahgat,

Sister just a quick note
yeh they know the words measnig, but doid they follow it?, THAT IS ANOTHER STORY SISTER, DON'T MIX THINGS UP
an example for you are the arab christians who understand arabic well, sure they understand many of the majority of the Qurna, but do they follow it?

The people I gave examples are of those NATIVE ARABIC SPEAKERS who claim to be understanding & following the CLEAR ARABIC QURAN correctly.

i still insist you have no point

And I have proven to u that u have no point. )

Peace!

peace sister

I'm sorry you only provided 2 examples, a thug/a mass murderer and a corrupt leader who was born with spoon of gold in his mouth

firstly, I never heard them claiming to be qualified to explain the Quran, neither I read any work by them EXPLAINING JUST ONE VERSE OF THE QURAN

also when I said understaning the Quran, I don't mean explaining the whole Quran, at least 70% of the whole Quran is simple to any native arabic speaker, it is actually like stories, take the laws out of it and the rest is very easy for any native arabic speaker, the laws now need qualified people to interpet it

EXACTLY AS WE HAVE JUDGES PROSECUTERS, POLICE OFFICERS AND LAWYERS TO EXPLAIN THE LAWS TO US

you want to listen to annyone who suddenly rode his/her high horse and think they can explain the Quran while they never spoke an arabic word, fine, that is your choice, I guess it is all part of the feel good religion attitude lol

peace

unknownuser

Hi AhmedBahgat,

I'm sorry you only provided 2 examples, a thug/a mass mureder and a corrupt leader who was born with spoon of gold in his mouth

I gave u more than 2 examples. Open ur eyes and see. I gave u the tip of the iceberg. ) U can see thousands of their followers who believe what these 2 believe.

firstly, I never heard them claiming to be qualified to explain the Quran, neither I read any work by them EXPLAINING JUST ONE VERSE OF THE QURAN

Really? How do u think he preaches and gets so many people to blow up themselves? wink

also when I said understaning the Quran, I don't mean explaining the whole Quran, at least 70% of the whole Quran is simple to any native arabic speaker, it is actually like stories, take the laws out of it and the rest is very easy for any native arabic speaker, the laws now need qualified people to interpet it

So, R u saying Osama might have got 70% of Quran correct?wink

EXACTLY AS WE HAVE JUDGES PROSECUTERS, POLICE OFFICERS AND LAWYERS TO EXPLAIN THE LAWS TO US

Rnt Osama, the saudi king acting as the law makers and enforcers?

you want to listen to annyone who suddenly rode his/her high horse and think they can explain the Quran while they never spoke an arabic word, fine, that is your choice, I guess it is all part of the feel good religion attitude lol

People who speak arabic all their life too didnt get it right, did they?wink

Peace AhmedBahgat, Understanding God and Quran requires much more than language skills. Most of all, it requires sense and wisdom. trance

Peace!

unknownuser

Hi AhmedBahgat,

hello mate

I'm sorry you only provided 2 examples, a thug/a mass mureder and a corrupt leader who was born with spoon of gold in his mouth

I gave u more than 2 examples. Open ur eyes and see. I gave u the tip of the iceberg. ) U can see thousands of their followers who believe what these 2 believe.

well, the examples you can only provide are books by authors, not a thug and some people that I never heard of, or hearsay

something like Ibn Kathir, you know

firstly, I never heard them claiming to be qualified to explain the Quran, neither I read any work by them EXPLAINING JUST ONE VERSE OF THE QURAN

Really? How do u think he preaches and gets so many people to blow up themselves? wink

i don't really know, but I guess as the americans also preached to use ONLY TWO BOMBS AND KILL THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CIVILLIANS IN JAPAN, did you forget that or what?

oh yeh the americans and their pet the british are also bombing and killing thousands of innocent Iraqis, did you see the last movie about the brave british soldiers bashing innocent children in Iraq? it was released a couple of days ago, I have it hosted on my server if you miss it, they are very brave those british soldiers lol

i wonder what those west preach to convince their fello citizens to bomb and bash innocent people in masses?

also when I said understaning the Quran, I don't mean explaining the whole Quran, at least 70% of the whole Quran is simple to any native arabic speaker, it is actually like stories, take the laws out of it and the rest is very easy for any native arabic speaker, the laws now need qualified people to interpet it

So, R u saying Osama might have got 70% of Quran correct?wink

I don't really know, Usama for me is nothing, but it seems for ya he is something big, those westerners are funny lol

EXACTLY AS WE HAVE JUDGES PROSECUTERS, POLICE OFFICERS AND LAWYERS TO EXPLAIN THE LAWS TO US

Rnt Osama, the saudi king acting as the law makers and enforcers?

for themselves yes, but not for the muslims, what on earth you are talking about?

sister, this is not chistianity where we have a pope, this is islam sister, we all equal, we only differ by the knowledge of Allah and his messages, that is from the perspective of Allah

you want to listen to annyone who suddenly rode his/her high horse and think they can explain the Quran while they never spoke an arabic word, fine, that is your choice, I guess it is all part of the feel good religion attitude lol

People who speak arabic all their life too didnt get it right, did they?wink

yeh, you know Satan is clever wink , but I hope he is not clever with me and you

Peace AhmedBahgat, Understanding God and Quran requires much more than language skills. Most of all, it requires sense and wisdom. trance

Peace!

excuse me sister, God and the Quran are two different things, you don't need the Quran to undersdand what God is, but that God is communicating to us in a book called quran using a language called arabic, now to understand it you need arabic, to submit to it you need much more than language skills, see where you got it wrong?

peace

Elke

Peace PM and AB

i just love this , dropped a (small) bomb and left.... lol

Ahmed wrote
and many on this web site and the whole world are not qualified to explain the Quran

even though i support what u state above...what makes u so sure that U are qualified ?

Quran is a book i've been reading for over 20 years now and today i do not read the book i read then, because my understanding changed. I read it in English, French and German and if a clear meaning doesn't emerge i compare versions then turn to arabic and start searching and analysing. Sometimes new understandings i never even thought of just flash in my mind...may be because i was not ready to see them before, may be also because i'm going the wrong way...

I really think it is important not to lose one's humility and only god guides to the right understanding (if there is only one) and it has nothing to do with arabic language skills! You know that Ahmed there is a clear verse on that.

elke