Any place for gut-feeling,conscience or intuition?
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Peace all. Is there ever a time when you 'instinctively' know something is right or wrong based on your knowledge and experience of life?(and so do not need an evidence from the quran) I believe that many times this is the case. Does the quran require us to forget our conscience. Some times people justify agression to those who are not muslim with long lists of verses from the quran,but my consciene does not allow me to commit 'aggression' against people just because of a different 'understanding' of life.And how am i to believe that people who do good deeds but are not muslim(eg mother therasa,dalai lama,ghandi,nelson mandela,einstein etc..) are doomed to eternal hellfire because of a different view of life? shock While i have eternal paradise if i avoid giving partners to god.(yet can still treat humanity in an inhuman way) shock
Peace all. -
Peace
The natural urge of the people is monothiesm, a union with the Source . What may seem like instinct can actually be one's upbringing. I'm sure if you were brought up in the wild like Victor you would not have the tendencies a society considers moral.
Joe
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Peace Enquirer,
Along these same lines of thought, I saw a program the other night on Evangelical Christians who support the concept of 'rapture'. One woman's opinion was that someone like Mother Theresa, who spread good-will for a long life time, would not be accepted into Heaven if she did not accept Jesus as her savior. In fact, she would be cursed with the rest of humanity during the dark period between the 'rapture' and the second(or third?) coming of the Messiah. Manwhile, if there was a serial killer who murdered thousands of people, but accepted Jesus as his savior, he would be saved and his sins absorbed by Jesus.
It's concepts like these that leave me dumbfounded, as people can abandon all sensibility in their adherence to religious doctrine. By the way, the concept of "rapture" is less than 200 years old shock
So, to answer your question, I believe we ALWAYS know what's right and wrong, not via instinct, but via the soul. The problem is, often times, wordly knowledge convolutes what the soul already knows, leaving the person in confusion or dilemma. For some, access to this knowledge of the soul comes easy, for others it does not. But the Qur'an is for all to lean on as either a reminder or new guidance, respectively.
Peace,
Tay -
Peace tay and all. Now that makes some sense tay,thank you. Now aply this concept to muslims(ie the division into what we believe(islam) versus what we do(our deeds)),are we not creating artificial and arbitrary divisions by saying muslim/kafir? The word kafir sounds dirty and offensive and it is very hard to define. We are all people and we are all fallible, yet beautiful.
Increase the peace. -
Peace
Kafir sounds offenseive because people tend to use it offensively. It is neutral until it is used according to the whims of the speaker.
are we not creating artificial and arbitrary divisions by saying muslim/kafir?
Yes we are and likewise when I call you enquirer and you to me TheNabi. I dunno about artificial and arbitrary though.
Joe
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Hello enquirer,
Peace all. Is there ever a time when you 'instinctively' know something is right or wrong based on your knowledge and experience of life?
It is my view enquirer that all Spiritual Truth comes from the subjective experience of the individual. And the key to this kind of experience is Reason, Intuition and Imagination. Reason allows us to make sense of the material world and Intuition and Imagination allows us to make sense of the Spiritual. But one has to exhuast all rational thinking first, before one can have the insight into the Spiritual Truths.
If you look back in history itself enquirer, you will realise that the Prophets, Messengers, Seers and the great sages of the world, in bygone ages, never had a logical encounter with the divine. The Angels and Burning Bush these are not logical encounters. Even the prophet Muhammad did not reach up to the highest heavens for the revelations but rather he descended to the core of his soul in a meditative trance. Spiritual Truth ultimately comes from meditative experiences of the individual.
Regards,
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Hi,
I agree that we should reason to find the truth, most people do not reason but just argue without knowledge, and they don't even listen to experts. You are right eq. there is something in everyone that drive them towards good/right and suggest to them what is wrong/unjust wink
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Peace lote-tree and all. What you are saying about the seers,sages and prophets makes sense. I also agree our 'spirituality' is 'relatively' subjective.(coming from our personal interaction with the world)
I do not agree with the 'current theology' of god(eg all-knowing,seperate from creation,all powerful etc..) Karen armstrong in her book 'a history of god' states that when an understanding of god ceases to be logical and practical people search for new concepts.(paraphrasing) Monotheism as it currently stands seems illogical. Would you say everybodys concept of god is subjective? Can you shed any light on a logical concept of god?(i know that can be a tall order?)
Peace all. -
Easy bmbmm! Peace! Can you take a look at the general section,titled; 'buddhist philosophy,superior to traditional islam? I need a scientists view on this By the way chill out with lote-tree will you. D You two are making me laugh with your jokes.. D
Peace. Take it easy. -
Karen armstrong in her book 'a history of god' states that when an understanding of god ceases to be logical and practical people search for new concepts.
This is absolutey correct enquirer. When one Idea of God ceases to be effective then it is quietly abandoned. And if you look back in history this is what you find.
Would you say everybodys concept of god is subjective?
Yes, everyone's understanding of God has always been subjective.
Can you shed any light on a logical concept of god?
Can you elaborate on this question.
Regards,
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Peace bmbmm. Do a phd on what makes people 'irrational',or how imams
get caught in a trap of dogmatic thinking. -
peace lote-tree and all.What i was trying to ask was what is your concept of god? I ask this because i wish to possibly gain another angle or insight of the concept of god from someone i guess is more non-traditionally inclined(in a good way i mean. ),like myself.
Peace. -
peace lote-tree and all.What i was trying to ask was what is your concept of god? I ask this because i wish to possibly gain another angle or insight of the concept of god from someone i guess is more non-traditionally inclined(in a good way i mean. ),like myself.
Peace.Here is a summary I wrote in a previous post
Hello nehdia,
I am impressed with your insight into the connections between the worlds religions. I have myself being arguing on this forum that "transcendence" is the key to human spirituality, and the reality that many have called "God", "Allah", "Nirvana", "Tao", "Brahman-Atman" are derived from the human experience of "transcendence". All scripture is therefore is an interpretation in limited human language of a "transcendent" reality that lies beyond reason and language. This has also been the insight of the Great Seers, Sages, Prophets, Mystics and Meditators. But it has been hard to make others see this connection that you have made on your own.
I have also argued that "God" is not an OBJECTIVE fact but has always been a SUBJECTIVE experience of the individual. Even Prophet Muhammad did not rise up to highest heavens for the revelations but rather he descended to the very core of his soul in a "meditative-trance" to meet his "maker". Therefore "Revelation" is an event that happens in each individual soul and therefore every individual is capable of having an experience like the Prophets. This experience is had via meditation.
As for myself I have not progressed enough in my meditation to "confirm" any of this "trascendence" yet. But I have so far achieved a "sense" of "infinte space" and "unity" within myself in my meditation sessions. I would like to believe, however, I am on the right track and perhaps one day it may lead to enlightenement. I will just have to remain patient, courageous and dedicated and continue to cultivate and nurture compassion for my fellow human beings and for myself too.
I am glad that your spiritual transformation have helped you to deal with your sexuality and the abuse. My spiritual transformation has allowed me to connect with humanity regardless of their religious beliefs as opposed to connecting myself to a certain scripture or set of beliefs. I now celeberate the best of humanity and also come to terms with worst of humanity through understanding. But I have not reached the end yet. I am still learning, I am still continuing with my spiritual journey but I am glad that I have met another traveller on this lonely spiritual path
Regards,
You may wish to read original post in this thread
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4039&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
I hope that helps -)
Regards,
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Peace lote-tree and all.Fantastic post to nehdia,and a great link.(her story and understanding are great). I think your view on spirituality and humanity is superb )
Peace all. -
Peace Enquirer,
You stated
aply this concept to muslims(ie the division into what we believe(islam) versus what we do(our deeds)),are we not creating artificial and arbitrary divisions by saying muslim/kafir?
I think the terms are a matter of fact. They are well definined within the Qur'an. However, the usage of such terms can certainly be artificial and arbitrary. I don't think these terms were taught to us so that we can go around labelling people. They are taught to us so that we may reflect upon them, understand them, and apply them to our own lives. The "us vs. them" mentality is certainly a thorn in the side of all religions, although I wouldn't call it the majority voice of any group, only the loudest voice of most groups.
We are all people and we are all fallible, yet beautiful.
Ameen.
Peace,
Tay