Where is our movement at the moment?
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"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
The above sequence of events usually takes place in response to a revolution (for example, a revolution such as ours a return to 'al quran').
What stage do you think we are at?
Wakas (I'm not really back, but may pop in time to time)
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Salam, D
I think we will never reach the 'they fight us' stage until a significant numbers of us take to the street and show our opinion to the public. It is understandable that many people choose to ignore us because most of them are those who hold the belief 'dont trust anything on the internet'. wink
But dont forget once we make our opinion known to the world many of us must be ready to pay the heavy cost. (u know what I mean) ?
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Well I will say They are fighting. They try to ingnore first then fight back.
We might be divede on issues, it will unfair to expect people to agree on everything it takes time. and research.
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Peace,
Voted for the first, though I agree with what some others have said uptil now...it's not a 'movement'...its a personal 'enlightenment' and that's where it is till now, the key word being personal...as long as there are no set goals, no 'one' voice...it can't be a movement that will gather any momentum as normal ones do (just a slow and gradual change and probably always a minority), call me pessimistic but thats reality...everyone has their own opinions, no collective calls. If there is a collective call to go back to the quran and it stops there people start questioning...um what about salat? What about hajj? Then you have a plethora of opinions to choose from and thats where they start screaming cult! and go back to ignoring the call. It's incomplete and divided and to the majority, freedom of thought makes them run for the cover of a security blanket with set rules and regulations.
We might be unified with the call to quran alone, but then you have the void that can't be satisfactorily answered unless people make the effort of reading and researching themselves and many people don't have the time to put in that kind of effort...are they justified? I don't know. Is it a duty incumbent on them to do so? Might well be. Will people still make it as long as they follow the God's way albeit their own differing ways yet united on the basics? Of course. So I've stopped worrying but I don't think I've started loving the bomb yet.
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Peace,
I think somewhere between the first and second. In many cases this is still ignored but just occasionally it will be scoffed at when the futile arguments against it fail.
The people who this appeals to are people who've already believed in the reading as truth. The people it appeals to are chiefly, though not exclusively, existing muslims. And they and many others who are searching for a "religion" are looking for doctrines and rituals.
They want to be spoonfed a package of things that is well thought out. The biggest problem in my view is that the people who believe in the truth of following the God alone are still beholden to the package of rituals they believe the reading instructs them on.
I don't believe the answer is to replace a package with another one, but rather to believe in what is firm and trust that whatever else we need to know will come.
The way of Abraham was to discover the God through rational thought about the world around one and a search within for truth. To lead a righteous life and not surrender to anything but the the supreme Lordship of the God.
Regards.
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Peace Oben,
I think somewhere between the first and second. In many cases this is still ignored but just occasionally it will be scoffed at when the futile arguments against it fail.
I agree, I've read in some places that some people are actively rooting this 'movement' out by harrassing people who believe in it amongst other things...but it's not widespread and could conceiveably be them just harrassing people with a different 'faith' and not targeted towards a 'movement' in general.
The people who this appeals to are people who've already believed in the reading as truth. The people it appeals to are chiefly, though not exclusively, existing muslims. And they and many others who are searching for a "religion" are looking for doctrines and rituals.
Indeed, or we get stuck on the issue of 'Is it really from God and how do we know?!?!", which is not just a 'quran alone' question...it's just a general question that can be debated with any book of any faith on any 'religious' forum for example, why it pops up so often here is beyond me. In either case, I think you are very right in the statement that the appeal is to those who've already believed in the reading as truth. The last statement however, leads me to more observations on the motivations for some.
In a few cases, it could be a way out for people to 'do' what they want and using the verses to justify it, or talking about the 'spirit' rather than what it says (which can give rise to seeing what you want)...There are some 'kids' that I've personally witnessed claiming...oooh no prohibition on alcohol!! Sw33t!! (My younger bro's uni students, with whom I had some success, apparently maybe too much). It takes a steady mind to take in all of the pieces and keep putting it together, not just looking for justification in verses to what people want it to mean. That's very difficult, nigh impossible, as subjectivity and bias will come in or 'youthful enthusiasm' as I just mentioned, amongst other motivations. That's imo one of the trickiest parts to it all. Not just the doctrine and ritual seekers. I suppose it's every man for himself here, that further undermines the idea of a 'movement'.
They want to be spoonfed a package of things that is well thought out. The biggest problem in my view is that the people who believe in the truth of following the God alone are still beholden to the package of rituals they believe the reading instructs them on.
I remember talking to Zein and Damon about this a year back. I was so giddy with having found this place and all geared up to 'take it to the masses' as it were and all our problems will be solved, or a great many of them...but I came across what I consider the biggest, that of the 'elusive and flitting, as seen fit, meanings of verses' or 'why the hell do we have so many translations some not worthy to be seen let alone heard?'
Surely if everyone bases their stand on the quran alone, we will all be united? It seems I was wrong. Some would say 'unity in diversity' and all that...seems very nice but I for one would not mind having just the unity, leaving aside the diversity that seems to further divide us. Why can't we all just be united on at least some basic truths? Leave the rest to people to figure out for their own. I can see people calling not just to the quran but pushing their own pills with it.
On another note, some say, "why the quran eh? I thought you guys were God alone...so what's this quran alone thingy? Leave it off you hypocrites!!". I would like to remind them, if they are reading, the purpose of the forum. It's God alone based on the quran believed to be truth. This is not the place to advocate flinging oneself to the mercy of the four winds. If one wanted to do that, I doubt many would come here for the sake of pursuing serious discussion based on the quran, which sadly is lacking on the forum these days.
I don't believe the answer is to replace a package with another one, but rather to believe in what is firm and trust that whatever else we need to know will come.
The way of Abraham was to discover the God through rational thought about the world around one and a search within for truth. To lead a righteous life and not surrender to anything but the the supreme Lordship of the God.
I agree completely.
