How Did it Come to This? (Part 2)
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Peace sister Marie,
Lately, I have been thinking about some of the concepts in the great reading, for example, the extensive use of allegories. Now, allegories could be kind of considered as talking to our "imagination/fantasy". We are warned in 37 not to follow the allegorical signs in the great reading in the same way that we are told not to follow the fantasy (3029). We are also told in 37 about the judging signs. In a way, the judging signs is what we use to control the allegorical ones. It is as if the great reading mirrors us because we use our judgment to control our fantasy.
I think the verse 2252 is in the line with your reasoning
And We never sent a messenger or a prophet before thee but when he desired, the devil made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the devil casts, then does Allah establish His messages. And Allah is Knowing, Wise
Wama arsalna min qablika minrasoolin wala nabiyyin illa itha tamanna alqa alshshaytanu fee omniyyatihi fayansakhuAllahu ma yulqee alshshaytanu thumma yuhkimu Allahu ayatihi waAllahuAAaleemun hakeemun
Thank you for the good observation. This passage is indeed related.
I am not sure about the translation of "tamanna" as "desired". This is the most widely used modern Arabic meaning. However, Classical Arabic dictionaries give other meanings that could better fit. For example, one of the meanings given for "tamana" is "one saying what he doesn't know".
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace ayman. Your observation on verse 37 is superb. We have to check our fantasies/illusions/misinterpretations when trying to understand the verses that are allegorical.And to a lesser degree, the more literal verses. The real essence/spirit and meaning of the clearer(more literal.) verses can help us from deviating when interprating the allegorical verses. Some posters have been saying this,in regard to the quran,previously. Ps;the clearer,more literal verses should still be interpreted by personal verification,not just literal or linguistic means.
Peace all. -
Pecae Ayman,
Asking what a Jinn is like asking what is God, it's a pointless question.
Having never met a Jinn or captured one, I can't tell you - and niether can you infer
anything other what the Quran tells you - The verses where Jinns are mentioned are clear
and sufficient enough.Eg.
God created them before man.
Satan was one of the Jinn
The Jinns used to serve Solomon
Hell will filled with them
etc.The 100 odd verses that mention them don't need your tafseer nor mine.
Beyond those description I have nothing else. What do you want a molecular description?
Why not swap the word Jinn with mangoes. Using your well famous techniques and enough time it should work.
God created mangoes, Satan was a type of mango. If mountains, hands, and feet can talk and behave like beings
why can't mangoes. Why can't mangoes intice us to do bad things.You know the kind of debates free-minds is gravitating towrads is the ones that I see people having forums
for matrix or starwars. "Oh.. Lucas meant such and such by this sence. This scene means this ... etc."
It is inferene upon inference , speculation upon speculation. Same passion and vigour but utterly pointless and fruitless.The debates never end and even Lucus is left scrating his head on how his fans can infere so much.
As for me joking - well never underestimate the power of humour.
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Peace phoenix1
John created the WhiteHorse in 1878.
WhiteHorse was one of the first <nouns> in his collection.
By 1900 there were 100 other similar <nouns> to his name.Theses <nouns> provided comfort for many men. They felt safe and had
a sense of pride regarding them.Now if you asked me what that <noun> is, I would call you crazy.
It could be
house
pub
flat
gun
robocopYou would be even more crazy if you picked eg. house and then infered that
it is a wooden house with laminated floors & titled roof, and that it is the tiled roof
that provides safey and not the laminated floors.I hope you see what I'm criticising. It's not even the interpretation but this wierd approach of deconstructing words into other words, and then using them to infer other ideas etc.
thanks.
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peace Burhan
I get what you're saying, but the quran is a bit different from that example. We've all seen and understand the things you listed. The "jinn", if they are some sort of beings, no one has seen them. There is no one in this world who can give a good, believable, verifiable explanation of what these 'beings' are. Not you, not anyone. So if the author of the quran had seen these beings, he would have explained to us what they are.
you still havn't answered my question, what, according to your understanding, are the jinn? because the quran doesn't really tell us what they are except the things you listed in your last post (they were made before man etc...).
Please tell us what you think the jinn are so that we can see which interpretation fits better into the verses, and which makes more sense. -
I think ayman is falling into a classic 37 trap... he is speculating on verses which are unclear to him without any knowledge. Talking about jinn without ever having come across one is like talking about love without having ever felt it. Only conjecture.
From my personal experience, which I chose to not elaborate upon because it is not something which can be explained, but only experienced, I know that jinn are separate from our normal thoughtpatterns and separate from our ego. Brother ayman seems to be talking about how our personal ego and thoughts can be detrimental to us, which I do not disagree with. However, there are something else external to this which can affect us, in both positive and negative ways. Now, one can conceptualize this other, the jinn, as some kind of external thoughtforms, or some sort of energy, or beings of some sort. I think from the Qur'an it is quite evident that there is no clear description of the form of jinn (except the rather allegorical reference to them being made of fire), and so I think that it is not important to figure out exactly what they are. Rather, what is important is that they are external to humans, and that if we do not protect ourselves, some of them can cause us great harm, just like evil human beings can cause us great harm (though I do not believe that there are inherently evil human beings - they are evil because the evil jinn have in some manner taken control of their personality).
Now, I know that I only have personal experience to back up my claim, so I don't expect others to take anything I say as fact without first verifying it for themselves. But please, let us try not to create plausible conjectures based on ignorance. -
peace claurianta. I agree with your analysis of jinn. However i feel ayman is saying virtually the same as you in slightly different language. I also feel(though i would appreciate if brother ayman could elaborate on this.) that ayman has come to this conclusion through personal verification.If not,then he still has uncovered a great theory and i would like to know what method he used. idea !
I feel the general idea is to 'transcend' harmful thoughts(inappropriate jinn/thoughts.) into 'positive' thoughts,thus leading to beneficial behaviour.(establishing salat; which means producing and following beneficial thoughts or jinn, thus leading to zakat which is purification/beneficial behaviour/freedom from harmful behaviour.)
peace all. -
Peace Burhan,
Asking what a Jinn is like asking what is God, it's a pointless question.
The false analogy that you are using is false on so many levels that it only demonstrates that despite having ample resources you don't even know the basic tenets of the book.
For example, you obviously don't know that while we are to have faith in The God, we are never told to have faith in the "jinn". In fact, we SHOULD NOT have faith in the "jinn" as per 3440-41.
You also seem to ignore that while we are told that The God is beyond our comprehension (6103, 4211) as well as the spirit (1786), there is no such assertion with respect to the "jinn".
Having never met a Jinn or captured one, I can't tell you
So you don't know that the "jinn" is linked (qarin) to the human. If you don't know anything then you should first gain knowledge and then comment. This is better than making asking about the "jinn" analogous with asking about The God.
and niether can you infer
anything other what the Quran tells you - The verses where Jinns are mentioned are clear and sufficient enough.Obviously they are not clear to you since as you said above you don't know anything about "jinn". So those passages mean nothing to you and don't affect anything in your life. They might as well be saying "blah blah blah" .
Eg.
God created them before man.
Satan was one of the Jinn
The Jinns used to serve Solomon
Hell will filled with them
etc.So what lesson did you learn from the above? Is that where you learned that "asking what a Jinn is like asking what is God"?
The 100 odd verses that mention them don't need your tafseer nor mine.
So you think that those verses are completely irrelevant to you and me.
Beyond those description I have nothing else. What do you want a molecular description?
You are right that you have nothing. So try to have something instead of criticizing with zero knowledge and thus adding nothing of value.
Why not swap the word Jinn with mangoes. Using your well famous techniques and enough time it should work.
God created mangoes, Satan was a type of mango. If mountains, hands, and feet can talk and behave like beings
why can't mangoes. Why can't mangoes intice us to do bad things.You know the kind of debates free-minds is gravitating towrads is the ones that I see people having forums
for matrix or starwars. "Oh.. Lucas meant such and such by this sence. This scene means this ... etc."
It is inferene upon inference , speculation upon speculation. Same passion and vigour but utterly pointless and fruitless.The debates never end and even Lucus is left scrating his head on how his fans can infere so much.
So it is "utterly pointless and fruitless" to try to understand "the 100 odd verses" of the great reading.
As for me joking - well never underestimate the power of humour.
This is funny, so perhaps you would appreciate this cartoon, which is the only entry in Edip's famous cartoon competition
http//19.org/forum/index.php/m/34677/5396/0///0/#msg_34677
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Enquirer,
Your observation on verse 37 is superb. We have to check our fantasies/illusions/misinterpretations when trying to understand the verses that are allegorical.And to a lesser degree, the more literal verses. The real essence/spirit and meaning of the clearer(more literal.) verses can help us from deviating when interprating the allegorical verses. Some posters have been saying this,in regard to the quran,previously. Ps;the clearer,more literal verses should still be interpreted by personal verification,not just literal or linguistic means.
This is exactly the kind of deeper and better general understanding of the great reading that is enabled when we improve our understanding in other areas. 37 is critical to understanding how to approach the book and it matching so well with this improved understanding of "jinn" indicates that we are on the right path.
I agree with your analysis of jinn. However i feel ayman is saying virtually the same as you in slightly different language. I also feel(though i would appreciate if brother ayman could elaborate on this.) that ayman has come to this conclusion through personal verification.If not,then he still has uncovered a great theory and i would like to know what method he used. idea !
I feel the general idea is to 'transcend' harmful thoughts(inappropriate jinn/thoughts.) into 'positive' thoughts,thus leading to beneficial behaviour.(establishing salat; which means producing and following beneficial thoughts or jinn, thus leading to zakat which is purification/beneficial behaviour/freedom from harmful behaviour.)Yes, we are all not that far apart (except perhaps Burhan who didn't say anything). I never said that I know exactly what "jinn" are. All we can do is IMPROVE our understanding of what they are and how they affect us. This is extremely important to understand the "100 odd verses" (as per Burhan's count) that are very relevant to our salvation.
I never said that "jinn" are our ego so I am not sure what Claurianta is talking about. My present understanding is that "jinn" are our fantasy/imagination. I am not sure what kind of experiences Claurianta is talking about but from what I heard about and saw in the middle east when people have alleged "jinn" experiences, those are projections from the person's over stimulated imagination through suggestion, group-think or other means that reduce proper judgment.
As for the method I used, when I started writing the article it was never intended to be about "jinn". It was about the finding of where the great reading was revealed and this led to the finding that to this day Arab pagan gods such as Allat are still venerated and 5319-30 is still applicable. So I tried to understand what Allat is from the passage. It is only when I read 3440-41 that the connection was made with her being a "jinn". So what we can observe through sectarian misguidance and the misguided behavior described in the great reading matched and pointed to the simple and obvious meaning of "jinn" that was right in front of us all the time. Moreover, we can verify this within ourselves by honestly looking at what drives us to do wrong.
So I guess a method would be empirical observation of behavior (symptom) and trying to understand it and verify it in light of the info given in the great reading (cause). One can then test the understanding by applying it to similar behaviors (symptoms) to see if the same cause applies and we get the same effect.
Whatever better understanding anyone achieves is due to guidance from The God. No method can help unless one is already forethoughtful of The God. Thus, if without anything, including the great reading, one doesn't instinctively feel uncomfortable about kissing the Black Stone and mindlessly spinning around the cube to begin with then no method can help.
Peace,
Ayman
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peace
I love the interpretation of 37 aswell. Im just still not sure what to make of jinn, as an analogy yes, obviously. But im not ruling out the posability that there is someone here along with us. Another kind of being who used to shed blood in the lands, and because of this, they had lost the right to "rule" earth. This was passed on to us, something the leader of them at the time did not appreciate very much it would seem.
Yall know that i am a conspiracy cook. And the more i research into the occult nature of modern politics and who is really pullings trings. The more it leads away from humans in a way. The ideals, goals, means used by these "hidden masters" that the occult lodges pledge loyalty above all to, does not come of as human to me. Not even unaware or evil people are that cold.
I can go with jinn being fantasi etc, for so long. Because solomon army could be made up of men, animals, and wrong ideals. But does that make sense? MQ has suggested that the book work on two levels. I find the same thing to be correct, and if that is the case, is it impossible that somebody else is here, who is older, smarter, and pissed off with us because "dad" handed us the toys.
somebody who has the power to whisper suggestions into our minds, like modern day media. Look into who owns these modern oracles. For as long as there has been media, they have been manipulating. Storys and legends told to keep people in check. Mental programming.
I have a freind in advertising, the way they target peoples subcontious mind is disgusting. Nomatter how lame and ridiculous you find a commercial, it is on its own brilliant, and if you dont like it, you wasnt part of the target audience. But somebody out there will sit and say "wow...what a great commercial, and what a superb invention they are selling". You dont belive me? tvshop!
politics and news are absolutely no different from this. Out of context i want to tell you a story of what is going on right under you noses.
The leaders of us have always been, or turned extremely perverse and sick. When you have no more goals to aim for, and dont understand spiritual growth, you become sick. The only thing left to keep you busy is playing a god, and you have to up the ante to "get off". We have seen it in sumer, messapotamia, the aztecs, etc. The leaders became insane and involved themself with the occult and human sacrifice, and to make sure the public doesnt react violently if found out. They slowly make it acceptable. they normalise it through their whispers, and a deroute for society now starts leading to its destruction and fall.
Nobody dares to apply this on today. todays world leaders. Do you think the human psyche has suddenly changed since then? When the bhemian grove started getting exposure, suddenly we on the other hand started getting flooded with occultism. Books for children about witchcraft, cartoons, toys, movies. How many movies have come out since 2001 about dark, relegious and occult themes? we have been flooded with them like never before! read history. Now is the time to get scared. because our leaders ARE into some very sick stuff, and now they have started telling us that it is acceptable behaviour though all their talking heads, and their medai outlets.
my point being. history is repeating itself once more. Could it be that the hidden masters are somone, who refuse to admit they are wrong, and continously trough the ages, try to recreate the society they once had in all its might and power? There are some wierd artifacts being found all over the world. totally out of place and time, and "science" find resources only to mock and ridecule those who say "lets take another look at this, why the hell did they have sparkplugs 500.000 years ago?".
its just a though. sorry for offtracking the thread like this.
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I love the interpretation of 37 aswell. Im just still not sure what to make of jinn, as an analogy yes, obviously. But im not ruling out the posability that there is someone here along with us. Another kind of being who used to shed blood in the lands, and because of this, they had lost the right to "rule" earth. This was passed on to us, something the leader of them at the time did not appreciate very much it would seem.
Z Peace brothers,
I wrote the following piece awhile back, maybe it might help us to understand just how we came about "ruling" the earth after the jinn, while at the same time help us to get a better understanding of just how the jinn are fantasies..
Lets see..
First, I would like to define who or what Satan is using the Qur'an. God states in the Qur'an that Satan is a part of his creation that was created before man. The Qur'an also states that Satan was made from a fire free from smoke, unlike humans who had been created from clay. This entails that Satan must be a Jinn, because the Qur'an does state, the Jinn were also created from a Fire free from smoke. Now we come to a very interesting point, "What are the Jinn?". Well, by reading the Qur'an, the Jinn seem to be a creation that had inhabited this earth before and inhabit the earth today with humans. There is actually one specific verse in the Qur'an that identifies what a jinn is, Verse 2710, the Qur'an revisits the Story of Moses and in particular the story of when he threw his Rod to the ground. We all know the story of the Rod being thrown down and changing into a snake, this story is repeated a few times through-out Qur'an, but in verse 2710 the snake is labelled something different, in this verse God describes the Rod as being "Jinn like". Therefore it seems the only plausible explanation for the Jinn is that they are some type of reptilian creation, hence making Satan also part of this reptilian creation.
It is interesting to note that before humanity had arrived onto the scene the earth at one time had been inhabited for millions of years primarily with Reptiles. With this information maybe we can try to understand the Verses in the Qur'an where in which, God speaks of creating the human race.
The following excerpt is from the Qur'an regarding the creation of humans and the position of Satan concerning the new creation of humans.
We have established you on earth, and we have provided for you the means of support therein. Rarely are you appreciative.
We created you, then we shaped you, then we said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Iblees (Satan); he was not with the prostrators.
He said, "What prevented you from prostrating when I ordered you?" He said, "I am better than he; You created me from fire, and created him from mud."
He said, "Therefore, you must go down, for you are not to be arrogant here. Get out; you are debased."
He said, "Grant me a respite, until the Day of Resurrection."
He said, "You are granted a respite."
He said, "Since You have willed that I go astray, I will skulk for them on Your straight path.
"I will come to them from before them, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left, and You will find that most of them are unappreciative."
He said, "Get out therefrom, despised and defeated. Those among them who follow you, I will fill Hell with you all.
"As for you, Adam, dwell with your wife in Paradise, and eat therefrom as you please, but do not approach this one tree, lest you fall in sin."
The devil whispered to them, in order to reveal their bodies, which were invisible to them. He said, "Your Lord did not forbid you from this tree, except to prevent you from becoming angels, and from attaining eternal existence."
He swore to them, "I am giving you good advice."
He thus duped them with lies. As soon as they tasted the tree, their bodies became visible to them, and they tried to cover themselves with the leaves of Paradise. Their Lord called upon them "Did I not enjoin you from that tree, and warn you that the devil is your most ardent enemy?"
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged our souls, and unless You forgive us and have mercy on us, we will be losers."
He said, "Go down as enemies of one another. On earth shall be your habitation and provision for awhile."
He said, "On it you will live, on it you will die, and from it you will be brought out."
After reading the above allegory I come to a fascinating conclusion. This fascinating conclusion inculcates who and what Satan is. If you look at verse 11 in Surah 7 you will notice that God instructs Iblis to bow down and submit to His new creation, the Human. Satan refuses because of his arrogance and prejudice towards the way we (humans) were created (clay). Then in verse 12 God informs Satan that he is not to be Arrogant and casts him to a lower position. Satan in return asks God if he can be given respite until we humans are raised for the day of resurrection, a t which point, God grants Satan respite with us humans till the day of resurrection.
The question is, "how can Satan be granted respite with humans till the day of resurrection where in which he is able to whisper to and influence humans to stray from the path of God?
Well, "knowing" that Satan was a part of God's creation before the creation of humans and "knowing" Satan to be part of some reptilian creation that existed on earth prior to the creation of humans, we might understand Surah 7 verse 11 more clearly in which God instructs Satan to bow down to this new human creation. In Surah 7 Verse 11, God is instructing the reptilian creation to submit to the new highly evolved human creation, though the problem is the reptilian creation does not want to submit to this new creation.
Well, is this possible?
Today science tells us that humans have a triune brain, and that this triune brain consists of 3 parts. The lowest part is called the R-complex or reptilian brain that had carried over from evolutionary stages from when the Earth was occupied by reptiles. The R-Complex's main objectives are Self-centeredness, Self-Preeminence, and Self-procreationist. Can this be the "entity" that God had instructed to bow down to the human creation? Is this Satan? It seems to be so, since, the reptilian brain does try to influence the other two parts of the brain with suggestions(fantasies etc..) that are contrary to their nature. The other two parts are called the paleo mammalilion (Limbic system) which regulates certain emotional processes in the human while the other part is labeled the Neo mammalian (Neo Cortex) which seems to be unique in humans. The Neo Cortex is split into two parts the Right and Left. Each has it's own unique functions.
Left Hemisphere
(Predominantly 3-patterned)Math
Associative
Commutative
DistributiveLogic
Major Premise
Minor Premise
ConclusionTime Sequencing
Seconds~ Minutes~ Hours
Past~ Present~ Future
Day~ Week~ MonthLanguage
Subject
Object
VerbRight Body Side
Tri-cuspid heart valve
Three-lobed lung Right Hemisphere
(Predominantly 2-patterned)Holistic
Macro versus Micro
Whole versus Part
Inner versus OuterMusic
Major Scale vs Minor Scale
Loud versus Soft (Quiet)
Consonance vs DissonanceVisuospatial (Art)
Background vs Foreground
Light vs Dark (Contrasts)
1 Dimension vs 2 DimensionsEmotions
Pain versus Pleasure
Positive vs Negative
Love versus HateLeft Body Side
Bi-cuspid heart valve
Two-lobed lungThere are a lot of theories that view the R-complex as being the Main motivator in instigating criminal behavior in humans.
http//cenocracy.topcities.com/cro7b.htmlTherefore, humanities goal is to overcome their base desires (Satan )and live up to their higher calling using the gifts of reason and compassion ( The two other parts of the triune brain)
God also does declare in the Qur'an that all humans have accepted this test before being born on this planet.
We raised the mountain above them like an umbrella, and they thought it was going to fall on them "You shall uphold what we have given you, strongly, and remember the contents thereof, that you may be saved."
Recall that your Lord summoned all the descendants of Adam, and had them bear witness for themselves "Am I not your Lord?" They all said, "Yes. We bear witness." Thus, you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, "We were not aware of this."
Nor can you say, "It was our parents who practiced idolatry, and we simply followed in their footsteps. Will You punish us because of what others have innovated?"
We thus explain the revelations, to enable the people to redeem themselves.
3372] We have offered the responsibility (freedom of choice) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were afraid of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.
For GOD will inevitably punish the hypocrite men and the hypocrite women, and the idol worshipping men and the idol worshipping women. GOD redeems the believing men and the believing women. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.
4011] They will say, "Our Lord, you have put us to death twice, and You gave us two lives; now we have confessed our sins. Is there any way out?"
Thus, the reality is, each individual accepted this challenge to overcome the suggestions of Satan (Base desires- reptilian desires). May God guide you to the Straight Path.
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Peace ayman,magi,phoenix,zeljko67 and all. Very good posts from all you guys.
Ayman;The method you described(empirical observation and real life testing.) i think,is an excellent method. I think your conclusions on this topic are basically right,we just need a bit more constructive input from others to tweak the details,and maybe gain further insight from others too. Your final comment on what we 'instinctively find uncomfortable' needs to be pasted on the front of the forum,as it is soo important. Intuition/conscience comes before the literal words of the quran,how can we verify interpretations as correct which are totally harmful and against our very nature,and conscience?(fitrah.) keep up the good work brother!Magi;I find your posts fascinating! I think this is an area i am interested in,and keen to learn more.Any suggestions?All i know is my friend david icke. I think your right,subliminal messages,tv,advertising etc..can have a detrimental effect on society.
Zeljko67Very interesting and scientific analysis! I agree totally with your conclusion; Humanities goal is to overcome their base desires(shaytan.) and live up to their higher calling using the gifts of reason and compassion.
satan=jinn=reptilian/baser mind is also plausible. I believe jinn(base ideas/thoughts) can also promote positive behaviour in the right context and situation (as long as they are used in conjunction with reason and compassion still.) if they(bad thoughts.) are transcended or redirected into a kind of 'tough' love. Eg when a person commits a bad crime against us,the reptilian reaction might be revenge and hate, but this can be re-directed to reform/rehabilitation and resolving the harm caused.So the initial reaction(the 'jinn' like response.) has helped to initiate a response,but has been transcended/redirected/reformed with compassion and reason.phoenix; I enjoy your honesty and insights.
I feel some members are coming to a kind of consensus of understanding on this 'jinn' topic,which is heartening and refreshing. I would also caution us all against being dogmatic in our findings,and to keep an open mind still ,and wait for further insights.
Peace all. -
I'll agree with ayman as far as saying that the manner in which jinn can manifest themselves are through our thoughts. I don't think that's the only way, but it would be a very effective way, as it is easy to attack someone who doesn't verify their own thoughts, and the victim wouldn't even recognize.
However, I think it goes further than this. I believe they can have even more effect than just influencing thoughts, and actually become capable of doing mental harm. Recently a lot of diseases have been discovered where something or other in the brain is out of balance, leading to depression or mental illness or something similar. The modern medical answer is often pills to mask the problem, as in fixing the symptoms. They generally have no clue how these problems arise, as in the cause of the symptoms. The causes are not bacterial or viral, like many of our physical diseases. So could it not be that the bad jinn could be a cause for these? When one gets depressed or has some other kind of mental problem, it is very easy for that person to move off the straight path... so could it be a method the bad jinn use to do harm? Any feedback on this?One more thing let us remember that in the Qur'an it says that there are good jinn and bad jinn. We seem to create our interpretations based on only the bad jinn. Obviously the good ones wouldn't be busy trying to get us off the straight path, so they are of lesser concern in that manner. But any definition of the jinn must be able to include good jinn. So this reptilian theory of quick negative reactions seems a bit dubious in that regard.
However, I think we may be onto something with the emotions. If I remember correctly, there are many places in the Koran where it talks about setting up barriers around ourselves. Could these be emotional barriers? Could it be that when we show strong emotions (good or bad) towards someone, we allow the jinn associated with them to come into us, and therefore we should only show strong emotion toward those people we trust (like family), and not just anyone? -
peace
One more thing let us remember that in the Qur'an it says that there are good jinn and bad jinn. We seem to create our interpretations based on only the bad jinn.
very observant. however, just to play the devils advocate. As bad as the things listed for the reptilian brain are, they are altso neccecery to survive, thus good and bad depending on your control of these instincts.
But i still dont think it alone fits all the details we have avaible, and thus jinn being the reptile brain, cant be all there is to it. Because to just smear criminal behaviour off on a genome is dangerous business.Smoking and selling weed is concidered criminal and anti social. Personally i think its none of nobodys damn business what people smoke and eat. IT will be between them and God. There are a lot of things that can place you in the criminal and anti social categoery wich in fact is nobodys business, but lobyism from interrest coorporations.
There must be more to it than this.
Peave
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Peace claurianta and magi. In my previous post on this topic i did mention that some jinn can bring benefit because they prompt an emotion which you can then respond to rationally and beneficially. You are right in that we tend to concentrate on harmful jinn. Idol-free in another thread mentioned jinn as being uncontrolled thoughts(ie initially not good or bad,just not controlled or verified.),he has said that solomon in the quran had control of some jinn...And i think thats the point..Jinn are raw thoughts and emotions,if we follow them blindly and let them control us we can become brutish and irrational(so-called reptilian.) if we acknowledge,redirect,control or defuse these raw emotions we can use them to lead to positve behaviour.(ie when we get angry,we realise there is a cause to this anger,but we control this emotion by not over-reacting and not using this anger indecently and hastily .) Misuse of emotions can definately create a barrier to understanding and decent behaviour. Emotions(or jinn.) are not good or bad,its how you use them.I think our job is to process our thoughts(jinns/emotions.) to be beneficial and positive,thus leading to decent behaviour.I take processing of thoughts to be the process of salat or meditation.
As people may testify,thoughts,emotions and ideas can be very powerful tools for good or bad.
Regarding depression and mental illnesses,i believe many of these are caused by incorrect processing of thoughts/emotions(misuse of jinn.) or by chemical imbalances in the brain/body. I dont have enough medical knowledge to verify which comes first,the chemical imbalance or the misuse of thoughts,or if its a combination of the two etc... But i have read that the mind and thoughts can play
a significant role in being healthy and positive.(this can also be verified in life-experience.) The whole mental health and religion link is fascinating,and i will try to think of more insights on this.Maybe we should start a new thread on; 'what is mental health'?
Peace all. -
Smoking and selling weed is concidered criminal and anti social. Personally i think its none of nobodys damn business what people smoke and eat. IT will be between them and God. There are a lot of things that can place you in the criminal and anti social categoery wich in fact is nobodys business, but lobyism from interrest coorporations.
Well, it is true that what a person smokes and eats is in principle between them and God. However, when that person chooses to exhale that smoke around other people, he is creating human victims, and then we have the right to say something about it. Same thing with drugs... it's not the drugs themselves that are the problem, but rather the associated behaviours that create victims - especially the family unit. So what you do to yourself is your business. But if what you do to yourself starts to negatively affect me, then it becomes my business.
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Smoking and selling weed is concidered criminal and anti social. Personally i think its none of nobodys damn business what people smoke and eat. IT will be between them and God. There are a lot of things that can place you in the criminal and anti social categoery wich in fact is nobodys business, but lobyism from interrest coorporations.
Well, it is true that what a person smokes and eats is in principle between them and God. However, when that person chooses to exhale that smoke around other people, he is creating human victims, and then we have the right to say something about it. Same thing with drugs... it's not the drugs themselves that are the problem, but rather the associated behaviours that create victims - especially the family unit. So what you do to yourself is your business. But if what you do to yourself starts to negatively affect me, then it becomes my business.
but not one minute before, that is the point. Most of these problems excist mainly due to the illigalisation, dont let anybody fool you. the war on drugs and prisons are megabucks operations. excactlywhat assocaited behaviours? since the 1970*S more than 25 million americans have used LSD. thats a whole lot of people supposedly crazy right there. In denmark we have 50% casual weed smokers in the population, their biggest danger is getting it. etc...
peace
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Salaam All,
For the answer to above check out the below posts
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6976.0
Also, check out these below posts
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6918.msg105307#msg105307
And, on page 11 of below post
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=4790.msg105297#msg105297
And, the below post
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=6888.0
And, on pages 38 and 39 of the below post
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=1914.570
BEWARE OF THE MISSIONARIES! BEWARE!
Mohamed