sura 17.1 ,what could be masjid Aqsa .
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simple wrote...
in lanes there is just one not two like where you got it from -burhans?i am so sorry dear...i overlooked that u had asked something! -S yeah, i got that from burhan's!
however, i did look up lane's just now and 28 20 is listed under 'qsw' which has been given as distant/far and not 'qss'! moreover, even 'qss' is used even in 28 25 where it seems to denote more like repayment rather than retaliation! i would like ur views! -)
28 25 So one of the two women approached him, shyly, and said "My father invites you to reward you for watering for us." So when he came to him, and told him his story, he said "Do not fear, for you have been saved from the wicked people."
simple wrote...
and i am not sure why you have brought ayah 24 into this above!well...ummm...it was because u said by night god took moses from restriction to retaliation! but in the afternoon he was asking god to help him out! i mean there seems to be no apparent change in his state! -S
peace to you -)
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hmmmm! i tried to find the root of the word aqsa and qasas and they seem to not match! root of qasas seems to have 2 's' while aqsa has only 1 's' -(
thanks bro, you are 100% right, it seems non arabic speakers get mixed up easily with the arabic words that have almost similar letter
well Sellim means ladder and was used two times in the Quran to mean ladder, how this word should relate to S L M (peace)?, NO RELATION WHATSOEVER other than they have similar letters
also bro, Aqsa means simply (the furthest) or (the far)
peace
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Peace Ahmed,
well you can argue with lanes for they give the root of both the same for the ladder aswell as you said , may be both have the same root because both mean to ascend - in a way , one physical and the other to betterment through peacefull means.
simerlarly aqsa and qasa have one root in lanes .
But unfortunately its not just the roots the sura 17 makes sense for the first time - to me,and the whole concept of ma-sajud al- haraam
and ma-sajud al-aqsa.what you acceptd as forbidden and what you accepted as retributory.
first you are told not to kill but when and if you do you are in retribution and deserve the punishment by qassas law -according to the quran.
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okay, messed up in the last post! -S
simple wrote...
simerlarly aqsa and qasa have one root in lanes .its not 'qasa' ('qs') it is 'qss'! u cannot have both the words with a single 's'! 'qss' is used in 5 45 (qisas)! in 28 25 the root 'qss' is also used for 'qassa' and 'qasasa'! so from roots 'qss' we have 'qisas' (5 45, retaliate) and 'qasasa'/'qassa' (28 25, 12 3, tale/episode/narrative)! u are probably (not necessarily) looking at 'qassa' as 'qasa' but 'qassa' has a 'shadda' over the 's'!
on the other hand, what u have in 17 1, 28 20 has a single 's', without any 'shadda'!
i dont know who designed the page for studyquran, but 28 20 is under 'qsw' and 28 25 is under 'qss'! i couldnt find any reference to lane's carrying 'qs' for retaliation!
and could u just explain ur translation a bit? i mean just write a few words so that i can understand what ur translation of the verse says! -) it is not masajadu but masjidi!
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Hi thegod,
According to lanes there is just one root ? I accept this to be true.
QAF, SAD page 2526. every thing like wise then follows/comes from this root.
All the shadas and what have you didn?t exist when the quran was compiled ? I think ,they came afterwards.
See example 4 page 2597 , for retaliation-if you want.
which ayah did you want translated?i have already done 17.1 above.
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Peace Ahmed,
peace bro
well you can argue with lanes for they give the root of both the same for the ladder aswell as you said , may be both have the same root because both mean to ascend - in a way , one physical and the other to betterment through peacefull means.
sorry bro, I don't really need to argue with non arabic speakers in how others cause to follow what they lack knowledge in according to 1736
also Salam means peace or greeting, it never means ascend, this is something you just made up, or possibly lanes did and you are just following it without any proof but assumptions based on a metaphor that Salam means ascend, it can't be bro, sorry
simerlarly aqsa and qasa have one root in lanes .
that is why those authors lack arabic for sure, it is exactly as the other brother said one is QSS and the other is QSA, and btw Mohammad has double M in it becauuse of the Shadda but in arabic we only write it one letter to ease writings as well we don't need to write the shadda, because it can be understood if the name is common as well from the pronounciation that there is a double letter in the word over whatever letter
But unfortunately its not just the roots the sura 17 makes sense for the first time - to me,and the whole concept of ma-sajud al- haraam
and ma-sajud al-aqsa.fine that is up to you, but it seems lanes had an influence on you wink
what you acceptd as forbidden and what you accepted as retributory.
first you are told not to kill but when and if you do you are in retribution and deserve the punishment by qassas law -according to the quran.
yep and the root of Qassas is Qss
the arab talked with the shadda but they never recorded it that's all, and because Allah created all langugaes and all words He must have known that the word Qss requires a shadda and sure the Arab did what Allah already knows
peace
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simple wrote...
According to lanes there is just one root I accept this to be true.QAF, SAD page 2526. every thing like wise then follows/comes from this root.
hi! i went throught pages 2526, 2527 and 2528 (till 'qsb'), and i have not seen the entry 'distant' at all in those pages! if i have missed it than do point it out to me for further study! instead, the dictionary has used 'qs' for the derivatives which others would put under 'qss', and as u can see all the words which he has placed under the root 'qs' have 2 's', while the word we are dealing with has only a single 's'!
simple wrote...
All the shadas and what have you didnt exist when the quran was compiled I think ,they came afterwardsyes i have heard that and its not only the diacritical marks, but even the dots that are believed to have come in written usage in the post-quranic era! an interesting thing is the existence of any 'becca' in quran, because changing the dots and marks, 'bibakkata' very easily becomes 'tayakkahu'! however, that said i personally do not see problems between 'aqsa' and 'qasas'! the absence of 'distant/farther' under 'qs' in lane's is enough for me to see that he does not quite include it in the same root as that of 'qasas'!
further, there is a mention on 2526, of a certain verse where its written, "And it is said in the Kur, and something is written, i could not quite find that in quran! maybe u can help me find that so that it might help further!
simple wrote...
See example 4 page 2597 , for retaliation-if you want.ummm...i cant see what u mean there!
simple wrote...
which ayah did you want translated?i have already done 17.1 above.not translated, explained! i mean could u just put in simple words what the verse would be saying according to ur translation!
simple wrote...
Moses escaped due to the law of retaliation Qassas mentioned elsewhere in the quran as he had killed a person (2815-2, so his situation went from normal affairs of do not kill to affairs of retaliation life for a life! And there arent any temples as such.
Before killing someone to after killing someone / Affairs with restrictions (general law) to affairs with retaliation (retaliatory law)what is meant by moses 'escaped due to law of retaliation'? and went from normal affairs of do not kill to retaliate? i am not quite able to get what it means there! and how does 'night' fit in here? nor do i get ur interpretation of 28 20, what is meant by 'retaliatory part of the people of the city'?
here is another verse
8 42 When you were on the near side, and they were on the far side, then the supply line became directly beneath you. And had you planned for this meeting, you would have disagreed on its timing, but God was to enforce a command that was already done. So that He would destroy those to be destroyed with proof, and to let those who will live be alive with proof. God is Hearer, Knowledgeable.
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Peace ahmed ,
sorry to say but we are on two different levels but i wouldn't try teaching you arabic.
but i seek not to learn your understanding of the quran - although your arabic is gifted.
and i am sure will seek your advice now and then that is for arabic.
May i simply say to understand the quran arabic isn't the only weapon you need you need a few other things too.
which to you i lack but its the other way .
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Peace ahmed ,
peace simple
sorry to say but we are on two different levels but i wouldn't try teaching you arabic.
no need for the sorrow bro, all people are different, that is what is written in the Quran indeed, we were made different by Allah for further testing
but i seek not to learn your understanding of the quran - although your arabic is gifted.
no worries but I didnlt offer my Quran understanding, i.e. I'm not preaching, I;m just responding to an something I may classify as an argument
and i am sure will seek your advice now and then that is for arabic.
sure bro any time (if I have the answer), but I do have 3 grammar books covring everything with hndreds of examples from the Quran, so I use them to back me up if I need to and sure there is plenty of useful info in them
May i simply say to understand the quran arabic isn't the only weapon you need you need a few other things too.
sure but I have to say to undersatnd most of it with ease you need fluent Arabic, the Quran is not an easy book indeed, it is only easy for rememberance i.e. to remember the verses if read many times in Arabic but it still not for the faint hearted, and what I mean it is only for the ones whom Allah will guide them to understatnd based on their intentions and submission to Him
which to you i lack but its the other way .
that was an assumption, as I never suggested that you lack anything, I only suggested that lanes lack arabic, but now you are suggesting that I lack something which is ok however I don't want to know it but you may prove it to the others at least
peace be with you
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Peace and blessing to all.
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000054.pdf
http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000055.pdf
thegod said # hi! I went thought pages 2526, 2527 and 2528 (till 'qsb'), and I have not seen the entry 'distant'
I wasn?t showing distant but that QAF, SAD is the root for both QS and QSS
But unwoven end and extremities of his ears is the closest thing on the 1st page above to do with distant.
From both pages one can see the words and give a comprehensive view of what it could be.
Aqsa in surra 171 is about retaliation rather then distant according to lanes how I have understood.
examples from lanes
Death became near to him = Aqsa-hu minhu.
He became at the point of death = Aqsa alaa al-mauteI think one has to remove all the diacritical marks to see the reality of it all.
All the examples in 4, page 2527 are about retaliation.
In the 171 Moses simply is changing his situation from
Being a free prosperous individual obeying normal laws to a wanted criminal without any power and wealth ? all with a simple act of striking and killing the Egyptian.
This single most prominent event changed his whole direction of life.
2820 is mistranslated somewhat here is the alternative -simple as can be.
and there came a man from the police dept/prosecution dept of the city
verily the chiefs are taking counsel together about you to kill you so escape truly i am to you the good adviser.842
When you with enmity the near (feeling the animosity) and they with enmity retaliatory (deserving retaliation) and their construction/fashioning inferior/lowest than you even if you had made a mutual appointment to meet you would certainly have failed in the appointment but that might accomplish a matter that was ordained so that might be destroyed those who were to be destroyed with a clear evidence and might live those who were to live with a clear evidence and surely Allah All-Hearer All-Knower. -
simple wrote...
I wasnt showing distant but that QAF, SAD is the root for both QS and QSS'qss' is in itself a root! but for some reason lane's has listed the derivatives of 'qss' under 'qs'!
simple wrote...
But unwoven end and extremities of his ears is the closest thing on the 1st page above to do with distant.it has more to do with cutting of them, the significance is clipping and cutting there!
simple wrote...
Aqsa in surra 171 is about retaliation rather then distant according to lanes how I have understood.if thats what u understand, i am fine with it! -)
simple wrote...
examples from lanesDeath became near to him = Aqsa-hu minhu.
death became near to him is 'qassahul mawta' from lane's
what u have written as 'aqsahu minhu' is 'aqassahu minhu' which lane's suspects is a mistranscription!
He became at the point of death = Aqsa alaa al-maute
not 'aqsa alaa almawte', it is 'aqassal alaa almawt'
u have changed the shadda and sukun, et al! and
simple wrote...
I think one has to remove all the diacritical marks to see the reality of it all.we can think what we want, but if we remove/change all the marks and dots we can get perhaps any reading we want! we can even make 'q' as 'f' and 's' as 'd'! we can make 'aqassa' 'ifudu', its there to change if anyone wishes to!
simple wrote...
All the examples in 4, page 2527 are about retaliation
.and that is what i am saying, the words which should have been placed under 'qss' have been placed under 'qs'!
simple wrote...
In the 171 Moses simply is changing his situation fromBeing a free prosperous individual obeying normal laws to a wanted criminal without any power and wealth all with a simple act of striking and killing the Egyptian.
This single most prominent event changed his whole direction of life.
so it means that 'glorified is who made his slave to travel by night by changing him from free prosperous individual obeying normal laws to a wanted criminal without any power and wealth'? is that a blessed 'escape'?
recalling ur earlier interpretation, i dont see how 'free prosperous individual obeying normal laws' equates with 'forbidden state' and 'wanted criminal without any power' equates with 'retaliatory state'!
simple wrote...
2820 is mistranslated somewhat here is the alternative -simple as can be.and there came a man from the police dept/prosecution dept of the city
verily the chiefs are taking counsel together about you to kill you so escape truly i am to you the good adviser.'so from 'aqsa' we have police department here? from retaliatory to police department! ahan, cool! -)
simple wrote...
842
When you with enmity the near (feeling the animosity) and they with enmity retaliatory (deserving retaliation) and their construction/fashioning inferior/lowest than you even if you had made a mutual appointment to meet you would certainly have failed in the appointment but that might accomplish a matter that was ordained so that might be destroyed those who were to be destroyed with a clear evidence and might live those who were to live with a clear evidence and surely Allah All-Hearer All-Knower.####### near enmity! retaliatory enmity! cool! just in case, only 1 's', but then u dont believe in 'shadda' and 'sukun'! also, there is a 'w' in there! so where we feel it does not match up with our words, we drop/change the 'shadda' and 'sukun' and also alphabets, and the rest of the places we retain them! cool! -)
######## here's another
1922 So she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a far place.
let me try 'so she was pregnant with him, and she went to deliver in a retaliatory/police department place.' cool? -)
######### anyway, this was my last post in this forum! really enjoyed talking to all of u! -) if i said anything that hurt or offended any of u, my apologies! -)
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Salaams thegod,
you said
"######### anyway, this was my last post in this forum! really enjoyed talking to all of u!
God Bless ! until if ever you change your mind , Br.