Meaning of the word Masjid?
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Salam,
Few Questions
1, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque.
How the earth is a globe how can i do that?
2, what is Masjidil-aqsa?
3, Which of the following is correct or more accurate?
We showed to Abraham ?The House? for mankind as the place of assembly and security. Use the station of Abraham as a place of the ?ritual prayers?. We gave instructions to Abraham to clean ?My House? with Ishmael for the people who encircle it, retreat in it and for those who bow and prostrate physically to it. 2125
or
God pointed to Abraham the system as a point of focus and security for mankind. Take (learn) from the status of Abraham who was committed. We contracted Abraham and Ishmael to cleanse My system, for throngs of people, those who devote to it, and those who humble themselves in submission.? 2125
Also doesn't the following make more sense, than your translations?
Do not violate God?s decrees (sha?iral-lah), and the restricted months (on hunting), and the guidance (about hunting), and the indicators (of hunting) and the restrictions in the system (bai-tal-harama) when seeking the grace and pleasure of God. But when they are permitted (halal-tum), you may hunt. Do not be provoked by the enmity of those who prevent you from submitting to the sanctions of the submission (anil-mas-jidil-harami) and do not aggress. Cooperate with each other in righteous deeds and piety, and do not cooperate with those committing sins and aggression. (Chapter 5 Verse 2)
However, if we kill the wildlife during the restricted months (shah-rul-harrama) on purpose, the food is still permitted for us to eat, but we pay a fine.
O you who believe, do not kill the wildlife when you are restricted (hurumun). If anyone kills on purpose, he shall expiate with an equivalent livestock to be judged by two equitable men from among you as guides to determine the ?ankles? (ka?bati). Or expiating by feeding the poor or atonement for it by fasting, so that he feels the consequences of his actions. God has pardoned his previous offences. Whoever reverts to his offence, God will avenge from him. God is almighty, avenger. (Chapter 5 Verse 95).
Peace
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Peace bmbmm,
Salam,
Few Questions
1, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque.
How the earth is a globe how can i do that?
Its the act of obedience/submission to GOD,whats in our hearts and mind thats what GOD looks at,while we may not be exact on the actual direction.
2, what is Masjidil-aqsa?
The farthest Masjid or literally "the place of the submitted that is the farthest"Not sure if theres a better translation?I believe it is possible referring to a vision and not an actual place.Though I could be arong.
3, Which of the following is correct or more accurate?
We showed to Abraham ?The House? for mankind as the place of assembly and security. Use the station of Abraham as a place of the ?ritual prayers?. We gave instructions to Abraham to clean ?My House? with Ishmael for the people who encircle it, retreat in it and for those who bow and prostrate physically to it. 2125
or
God pointed to Abraham the system as a point of focus and security for mankind. Take (learn) from the status of Abraham who was committed. We contracted Abraham and Ishmael to cleanse My system, for throngs of people, those who devote to it, and those who humble themselves in submission.? 2125
Both could be or this could even be correct.
We rendered to Abraham the house as a point of focus and security for mankind. Take (learn) from the status of Abraham who was committed. We contracted Abraham and Ishmael to cleanse My House, for throngs of people, those who devote to it, and those who humble themselves in submission.?
Also doesn't the following make more sense, than your translations?
Do not violate God?s decrees (sha?iral-lah), and the restricted months (on hunting), and the guidance (about hunting), and the indicators (of hunting) and the restrictions in the system (bai-tal-harama) when seeking the grace and pleasure of God. But when they are permitted (halal-tum), you may hunt. Do not be provoked by the enmity of those who prevent you from submitting to the sanctions of the submission (anil-mas-jidil-harami) and do not aggress. Cooperate with each other in righteous deeds and piety, and do not cooperate with those committing sins and aggression. (Chapter 5 Verse 2)
However, if we kill the wildlife during the restricted months (shah-rul-harrama) on purpose, the food is still permitted for us to eat, but we pay a fine.
O you who believe, do not kill the wildlife when you are restricted (hurumun). If anyone kills on purpose, he shall expiate with an equivalent livestock to be judged by two equitable men from among you as guides to determine the ?ankles? (ka?bati). Or expiating by feeding the poor or atonement for it by fasting, so that he feels the consequences of his actions. God has pardoned his previous offences. Whoever reverts to his offence, God will avenge from him. God is almighty, avenger. (Chapter 5 Verse 95).
Peace
Looks okay to me,I am not sure if theres a better translation for (anil-mas-jidil-harami) though,not sure if harami can mean sanctioned and not sure if ka'bati means ankles?
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Another possibility
Masajids
Masjid is the place where muslims meet to do consensus. In a system masajids are like parliamentarian houses where rules and laws are made, discussion, meetings and consensus are done in the light of guidance of Quran.In 72/18 Quran says" Masajids are for the God,don't include name of any one else in His authority ". Masjid for God means we should make laws and by laws in the light of God's guidance in these places and implement them for the welfare of society. In this way Government of God will reflects its promised results in the society. Any place prior to the formation of state or after the formation of state where this job will be done will be called masjid in real sense.
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3844This understanding is not far from masjid = place of hering and obeying.
Peace
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Peace
Masaajid were for the people of those times.
Those who witnessed the revelation of the message had specific obligations. The challenge was among them.
Their salaah, obligation/commitment at fixed times, salaatul fajr, and salaatul Isha, were assemblies in places of submitting, masaajid, where the messenger rehearsed the message and it was done at fixed times. They were told to wear good clothes, wash, don?t show up drunk, make room, ask permission to leave etc. Hands were assigned to write it down. They were told to come when he called them to these assemblies. These places were for God alone, not business etc. The hypocrites took a masjid and the messenger was told not to stand in it. Also see 2941. This was the way the message was disseminated to the people. Even during battles the messenger rehearsed and some stayed behind to rehearse with the people not fighting.
There is nothing for the reader to do with this information but to know what happened and grasp some bottom lines. We see the beginning of an orderly society not following religion. Not to establish new masaajid, rehearse the message etc. There is no challenge to the masjidil haraam for us.
The MASJIDIL HARAM is the MAQAMA Abraham. It was the ancient house of Noah. , the BAITUL ATIQ. It was the place sanctioned by the God for rehearsing His message. When the Messenger and followers of the new messenger came and challenged the controllers of this masjid haram, the Bani Israel , the descendants of those who came with Noah, there was fighting for control of it and it was the fulfillment of what was told to Abraham. The people came. The Bani Israel were told to take the maqama, place of Abraham. The messenger came there so there could be no argument against him since he was professing to be from the line of messengers and there was no distinction between any of them. It was the same message as those who built and maintained the sanctioned place of submitting professed. They recognize the message but don?t want to follow an arab. They were changing the message and hiding it. They were lying, calling him a madman and planning against him and those with him. The God told the messenger and those with him to fight them back. Turn them out of the masjid and wherever they turned them out from. Fight them until they stopped fighting. Fight them until deen was for the God alone. The rejecters and the hypocrites had no right to maintain the masjid. Eventually the pagans were banned also. This also, of course, is not an injunction for all mankind. That particular fight is over.
The messenger and his followers were given the speech to say in the challenge (hajj) with these people. There were rules of conduct when they took this challenge, no jadil/arguing, no sex during the day, they were to bring provisions, 10 days, etc. They were devoted in the masjid. .
We have not been enjoined with this ?salaah? or commitment. We have not been enjoined to establish masaajid nor is it necessary. We have not been enjoined to fight for control of the masjid haraam. We have a record in this reading of what they did. We have a record of the permanent moral values enjoined on them as they became an orderly community of those serving the God without religion. They established deen al Islam. They learned to write wills, , they learned to witness contracts, they learned to deal justly and equitably, they learned what was aggression and what was exceeding the limits in retaliation, they learned to be modest and chaste, they learned equality of the sexes, they learned how to marry and divorce to establish correct bloodlines, they learned to avoid excess, they learned how to be clean and eat clean, they learned that slavery was not a good thing, they were warned about the effects of slander, they learned their responsibilities as members of an orderly society and they learned what dragged down a society. We can learn from what was enjoined on those who ?aamanuu? what is important in the establishment of deen al Islam.
There is one big picture and I?ve simplified it for brevity. There is much more to learn in this picture and if you begin with the right understanding you will make the connections. We do not have to guess we have to study. There is guidance and explanations from the guidance. There is no religion in the reading. There are 2 parties of men, the party for the God and the party for Shaytan. The God says this is an ?Arabic Qur'aan?, that translated is, an ?eloquently clearly expressed reading?. Anyone needing references numbers please ask but I know most of you are familiar with the reading enough to find them.
I think that if we are grounded in the gender, number and tense of the words we will be better able to make the link to the verses that explain each other. The little words such as prepositions, parts of speech, i.e, nouns of place and instrument, and the use of vocatives i.e, O and ?li? to indicate the addressee etc. also clarify things. For example in 2012 the translators all say ?in the sacred valley?. Bil or bi does not ever translate into the word ?in?. My grammar references specifically note this as a gross error. Fil or fi is used for ?in? a place and it is consistently used as such in the reading. Therefore, there is a very different understanding in what is being said to Musa in 2012.
We have the complete message in a book. Within these narratives are the locks on the meanings that explain all things in the timeless message to all mankind.
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Salam,
As for me, I believe mesjid is not physical building. We can see from the verse below
And as such, We revealed their case so that they would know that God's promise is true and that there is no doubt regarding the Hour. They argued amongst themselves regarding them, so they said "Erect a monument for them!" Their Lord is fully aware of them, those who managed to win the argument said "We will construct a temple over them."
The word use in the Quran is ?NATTAKHIDHANNA cAlay ? HIM MASJID? where they translate to construct a mesjid over them.
If we see the other verse in the Quran, ?NATTAKHID? is use as ?TAKE? not ?BUILD? or ?CONSTRUCT?.
And the one from Egypt who bought him said to his wife "Make his stay generous, perhaps he will benefit us or we may take (NATTAKHIDH) him as a son." And it was thus that We established Joseph in the land and to teach him the interpretation of dreams. And God has full power over matters, but most of mankind do not know.
God has cursed him; and he had said "I will take (ATTAKHIDHANNA) from Your servants a sizeable portion."
So, the verse should be read as ?WE SHALL TAKE UPON THEIR ACT OF COMPLIANCE (MESJID)?
Regards,
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Peace gclandcp and all. I agree. Masjid=an act of compliance.
Masjid-ul-haram=acts of compliance which are generally harmful to people and so discouraged.
Sujud to allah=an act of compliance which is mindful of consequences(akhirah=consequences.) and beneficial to people..(salihan.)
peace. -
Salam all.
It make more sense when we remove ourselves from physical structures, as physical structures do not last forever. Also they lead to idol worship etc. Maqam-Abrahim is the station of Abrahim that he believe in one God. And inside masjid-al-haram we find the station of Abrahim (not to associate anthing else or serve beside Allah, as the biggest restriction in the submission (masjid-al-haram) is to associate something else with Allah.
Aditionally, its a fact that the cube got nothing to do with the station of Abrahim because there is no signs of him inside and nither the dome of the rock because inside there are only rocks, even if Abrahim stood there, it doesn't make it a satation. However if one looks into the restrictions in the submission (not a structural temple etc) one will find a lot of signs on Abrahim.
Peace
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Peace,
You cannot arbitrarily change the grammar. This does make grammar rules infallible but where is your proof that this is an error on the parts of the grammarians. Ma-sjid is a noun of place. Mafal.
So, the verse should be read as ?WE SHALL TAKE UPON THEIR ACT OF COMPLIANCE (MESJID)?
1821
? so they said "Build/construct on them a BUILDING/STRUCTURE, their Lord (is) more knowledgeable with (of) them." Those who defeated/overcame on their matter/affair said "We will TAKE on them a PLACE OF SUBMITTING."?faqaloo ibnoo AAalayhim BUNYANAN rabbuhum aAAlamu bihim qala allatheena ghalaboo AAala amrihim LANATTAKHITHANNA AAalayhim MASJIDAN
A noun of place here is a specific place where the action of the verb happens as opposed to a general structure. The arabic is precise. Submitting does not equal the praying and bowing down of secularists and masjid is not a place of praying. It is not a holy place. It is a place where the messages of the God are rehearshed and not the mosques of the religionists.
The Bani Israel had masajid before the messenger.
2191 ??Do not fight them INDA the place sanctioned ?? Inda is a preposition of place/a word used to describe positon, masjid is a place and INDA here indicates AT A PLACE WITH SOMEONE.
Waanna almasajida lillahi fala tadAAoo maAAa Allahi ahadan
7218 And that the places of submitting are God, so do not call anyone with the God.'
The 'li' is a particle of purpose, so literally the places of submitting are for the purpose of the God. The translators are in the habit of ignoring these little words. It is very important to what is being said. The masjid is not God?s place nor is the bayt God?s house. They were for God?s purpose. REHEARSING THE MESSAGE.
The people of those times could not pass out copies to anyone who wants one, we can. God knew we would have this capability. Thus ?AIDIDI SAFARIN? , hands assigned to write it down. By the way a safarin is a large task, not a large book but it?s easy to follow how it came to mean that because producing a book was a large task. A KAATIB is a writer or a scribe in the reading from the root ka-ta-ba, to write. It?s the active participle, that is the person or thing that does the action of the verb.
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peace grouself and all. Doesnt language evolve with time?Are the grammar rules fixed? Can you know grammar rules just from the quran? How do you know how alif is written or pronounced according to the reading? Is the quran a dictionary and grammar book? Peace.
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The MASJIDIL HARAM is the MAQAMA Abraham. It was the ancient house of Noah. , the BAITUL ATIQ. It was the place sanctioned by the God for rehearsing His message. When the Messenger and followers of the new messenger came and challenged the controllers of this masjid haram, the Bani Israel , the descendants of those who came with Noah, there was fighting for control of it and it was the fulfillment of what was told to Abraham. The people came. The Bani Israel were told to take the maqama, place of Abraham.
Could you please expatiate this part of your text (giving all the references) ?
It is hard for me to understand it.Where is the MASJIDIL HARAM according to you ?
Peace
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Peace JM
6104-105
Qad jaakum basa-iru min rabbikum faman absara falinafsihi waman AAamiya faAAalayha wama ana AAalaykum bihafeethin
Clear sightedness had come to you from your Lord, so who saw/understood so to himself, and who (is) blinded so on it, and I am not on you with an observer/guard.
Wakathalika nusarrifu al-ayati waliyaqooloo DARASTA walinubayyinahu liqawmin yaAAlamoona
And like that we explain in a variety of forms the signs/evidences, and to them saying "YOU STUDIED." And to inform it to a nation knowing.
In context the messenger is saying this to those who know the kitab. He knew the kitab from all angles, thus the ?You studied?. I had this in mind when I left out the references. The story is told from an arrangement of the signs. I was not as precise as I could have been but I tried to leave out as much of me as possible lol for example this part of the sentence
they did not have access to the maqama Ibrahim at that time
There are key words and a few numbered references so that any reader who is a student of the reading can verify. I am waiting for a denial of what I?ve written because this history is what has been used to invent a religion and everyone needs to be well grounded in just what is being said and where to find it in the reading. Take it sentence by sentence. I didn?t make up a story, it?s all there within the reading.
The reader has not been left to guess. We?ve been confused by religionists who got it into their heads and ours that this history is to be repeated and repeated by all men for all times. They purport that the signs are ADDRESSING the reader in every context. They are not. There is no such verse that says this. There is no hajj to the house for us. The God even tells us what the ?hajjis? will be riding and it?s not 747?s and fast cars. Actually the narration is in the present tense, not future tense which is the easiest of all to recognize in Arabic. When the translators insert ?will? for those of us that speak English, this is future tense. In Arabic its ?sa? or ?sawfa?, neither is in this sign. This was Abraham?s challenge. Those with the messenger did the same. It is a history, important, but it remains history.
I?d like to note that the word haraam is used with conditional sanctions. By that I mean, that you can eat carrion if necessary. For unconditional things the God say la taqrabu/don?t go near and no ?unless? is included. Haraam is used in reference to this place. It is a particular place of submitting as opposed to others. Haraam does not indicate hermetically sealed.
According to you?
That sounds a little like sarcasm lol Am I right?
I am a student also and thus far, this is what I know about the location of the masjidil haraam. It is not Mecca. The Bani Israel were in control of this place of submitting. The tricky translators call it a temple but the God says ?masjid?. The Bani Israel had nothing to do with the pagan shrine in Mecca. They were the ?guided?. I have a few ideas since these people are passing the perished nations, morning and night and the land is fertile. But, I?d prefer not to speculate. I?m looking for the proof. The reading says it?s a guide and explanations from the guidance and an explanation of ALL things. We are knocking our heads with the history, building a religion and missing the profound timeless information about our ?nafs? and the universe for all mankind contained in the reading. This is a reading that must be studied.
Profound stuff like
Who are the ?aleen in 3875? Or do we think the God was making a joke? There is nothing about the root meaning or the use of this word that indicates haughty or proud, that was already said.
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Shalaam gourself,
I think you are some what confused - you i think are saying masjid is a building or something!
The best man for the job is though Ayman for expalining this. He is good - very good on the understandings of what is a masjid - i think.
Masjid is never a building in the quran , if you think it is lets have a Go.
God Bless.
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peace
I think you are some what confused - you i think are saying masjid is a building or something!
I'm not confused at all. If you are not confused you wouldn't be waiting for someone else to come and explain what you claim to understand. I too made the mistake of just accepting what sounded reasonable without really understanding it for myself. I knew God wanted service without religion so it made sense. It assisted me to that end but I now understand, for myself, without the explanations of others. Masjid is a noun of place. No doubt! Bayt is a house! No doubt!
A masjid does not mean there are ritual prayers and nor are they enjoined on us. The reading contains a history of a people who have passed on along with a profound message for mankind. Masajid are part of the story. The Bani Israel had them too and they too were charged with the following closely . Their history is not an esoteric mysterious blend of injunctions for all times. The verses say exactly what they seem to say. They were being ejected by the Bani Israel from the place sanctioned by God for the rehearsing of His signs. They had to fight and turn them out. There were battles and people fled their homes. The reading must be studied, not read like a novel but the story is there.
Bring your proof otherwise, if you are truthful and knowing.
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Hi Gourself,all,
Here is the first,
3.Waman athlamu mimman manaAAamasajida Allahi an yuthkara feehaismuhu wasaAAa fee kharabiha ola-ikama kana lahum an yadkhulooha illa kha-ifeenalahum fee alddunya khizyun walahum fee al-akhiratiAAathabun AAatheemun
And who is more unjust than he who forbids that in places for the worship of Allah, Allah's name should be celebrated?-whose zeal is (in fact) to ruin them? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them except in fear. For them there is nothing but disgrace in this world, and in the world to come, an exceeding torment.
2114
And who is greater wrong doer then those (who) forbid masajida, acceptances/submissions, (of) Allah to admonish/ honour, in them His distinction/characteristic and strive in their ruin these people not was (proper) for them to enter them except in fear for them in the world (is) disgrace and for them in the hereafter torment great.Explanation
Let?s see an acceptance/submission - tell the truth even if a near relative is concerned, but in friendships relationships people will lie for one another and would thus be bringing ruin to the Allah?s characteristic of truthfulness. But they will be entering their submission in fear in case they were ever found out plus the fear of the hereafter.What is the reason of fear to enter a building or something?
just telling a lie is a submission which ruins the truth character of Allah . And you will fear when telling a lie plus the fear of the hereafter.
The place of salaa
008.035
YUSUFALI Their prayer at the House (of Allah) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed."Salaams.
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Peace,
Here is the first,
3.Waman athlamu mimman manaAAamasajida Allahi an yuthkara feehaismuhu wasaAAa fee kharabiha ola-ikama kana lahum an yadkhulooha illa kha-ifeenalahum fee alddunya khizyun walahum fee al-akhiratiAAathabun AAatheemun
And who is more unjust than he who forbids that in places for the worship of Allah, Allah's name should be celebrated?-whose zeal is (in fact) to ruin them? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them except in fear. For them there is nothing but disgrace in this world, and in the world to come, an exceeding torment.
2114
And who is greater wrong doer then those (who) forbid masajida, acceptances/submissions, (of) Allah to admonish/ honour, in them His distinction/characteristic and strive in their ruin these people not was (proper) for them to enter them except in fear for them in the world (is) disgrace and for them in the hereafter torment great.Explanation
Let?s see an acceptance/submission - tell the truth even if a near relative is concerned, but in friendships relationships people will lie for one another and would thus be bringing ruin to the Allah?s characteristic of truthfulness. But they will be entering their submission in fear in case they were ever found out plus the fear of the hereafter.What is the reason of fear to enter a building or something?
just telling a lie is a submission which ruins the truth character of Allah . And you will fear when telling a lie plus the fear of the hereafter.
The place of salaa
008.035
YUSUFALI Their prayer at the House (of Allah) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed."The complete story is within the reading.
If you keep the context you will understand that the people of the scripture, ?Jews? and ?Christians? do not accept this messenger. He?s inviting all the people. They are disputing and differing among themselves. Those with the messenger are being admonished to ?stay strong? and keep doing as ordered, that is salaah, follow closely the rehearsal . They are told those who are hindering them from the masjid are a disgrace, will be punished in both lives and they are the ones who should be afraid to enter the masjid. They are bringing the masjid to ruin. They are just whistling and clapping their hands.The places, houses, where God?s descriptions/designations are being remembered, not His names. They are not His houses, they are for His purpose. The same descriptions He taught Adam to nabi, the messenger is nabi, informing the people. They are not praying. They are standing, sitting and lying on their sides. They are cleanly washed, dressed nicely, sober and they make room for whoever is joining.
It?s easy to understand if you don?t get esoteric and think the verse is addressing you, the reader. Ask yourself a question Where was the messenger ?natu? rehearsing the message? On the street corner? ) A little levity!
Answer In a masjid
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you said
"from the masjid"
you havn't shown any proof as such.
please provide proof from it rather then your own view.
there are numerouse ayah's using this word in the quran throw one or two which proof masjid is a physical thing. Thanks.
God Bless.
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Peace
you said
"from the masjid"
you havn't shown any proof as such.
please provide proof from it rather then your own view.
there are numerouse ayah's using this word in the quran throw one or two which proof masjid is a physical thing. Thanks.
Everywhere the word is masjid it is a noun of place. You can choose any verse you'd like and it is my proof. Open any basic book of grammar and a dictionary and follow the guidance in the reading to understand. The book explains itself. Don't rely on anyone else to provide you understanding and answers. I wish someone had told me that 30 years ago. I'd be dangerous. lol
If you are a student of the reading then you should already know that what I've said is not my view. I have no view. I'm just rendering the words as they read without adding any mysterious meanings or steering by translators. I'm not making up a story. The story I've related is in the reading and there is a corresponding verse to each of my statements. Please review what you think you know. The meaning of masjid and bayt remain consistent without any tweaking. You are confusing yourself. As I said, I too confused myself by accepting rationalizations as fact and trying to fit what is written into timeless injunctions. The former practice by people gone on of rehearsing God's message has been corrupted into holy houses and ritual prayers. The reading relates that a greater portion from among the former will be protected by the God from an-nar. Serve God without religion. We don't need to tweak anything. This message is in the book, an "eloquently, clearly expressed reading" that contains the "isma" of the God.
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Peace grourself. I sympathise with your idea of 'having no view',ie trying to be objective. But we are human,and can also make notable mistakes when doing this. I have seen internally and linguistically consistent interpretations which conclude the obligation of the sunnah of the prophet,(ie bukhari and muslim.) or justify oppresion/war against so-called non-muslims. Also if some of the verses are allegorical,how does grammar fit into the interpretations of these verses? Some people differ in the linguistic meaning of words and the application of the grammar.(ie they have different rules of grammer.) I dont believe the quran is a dictionary or a book of grammar. Can you know how to spell,write or pronounce an alif from the quran? Conscience,reason and intuition play a huge part in interpretating the quran,and can take precedence over 'internal verification' or purely literal grammer.(this type of internal verification can lead to circular reasoning.) I would also say that does not language and grammer evole/change over time? The 'spirit' or what the the verses are trying to achieve(universal peace.),are much more important than the 'cold' literalism/static,narrow and limited views,which can lead to harmful,irrational and random interpretations.Context and objectives/aims are also very important.
Peace.