Meaning of the word Masjid?
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Peace JM
6104-105
Qad jaakum basa-iru min rabbikum faman absara falinafsihi waman AAamiya faAAalayha wama ana AAalaykum bihafeethin
Clear sightedness had come to you from your Lord, so who saw/understood so to himself, and who (is) blinded so on it, and I am not on you with an observer/guard.
Wakathalika nusarrifu al-ayati waliyaqooloo DARASTA walinubayyinahu liqawmin yaAAlamoona
And like that we explain in a variety of forms the signs/evidences, and to them saying "YOU STUDIED." And to inform it to a nation knowing.
In context the messenger is saying this to those who know the kitab. He knew the kitab from all angles, thus the ?You studied?. I had this in mind when I left out the references. The story is told from an arrangement of the signs. I was not as precise as I could have been but I tried to leave out as much of me as possible lol for example this part of the sentence
they did not have access to the maqama Ibrahim at that time
There are key words and a few numbered references so that any reader who is a student of the reading can verify. I am waiting for a denial of what I?ve written because this history is what has been used to invent a religion and everyone needs to be well grounded in just what is being said and where to find it in the reading. Take it sentence by sentence. I didn?t make up a story, it?s all there within the reading.
The reader has not been left to guess. We?ve been confused by religionists who got it into their heads and ours that this history is to be repeated and repeated by all men for all times. They purport that the signs are ADDRESSING the reader in every context. They are not. There is no such verse that says this. There is no hajj to the house for us. The God even tells us what the ?hajjis? will be riding and it?s not 747?s and fast cars. Actually the narration is in the present tense, not future tense which is the easiest of all to recognize in Arabic. When the translators insert ?will? for those of us that speak English, this is future tense. In Arabic its ?sa? or ?sawfa?, neither is in this sign. This was Abraham?s challenge. Those with the messenger did the same. It is a history, important, but it remains history.
I?d like to note that the word haraam is used with conditional sanctions. By that I mean, that you can eat carrion if necessary. For unconditional things the God say la taqrabu/don?t go near and no ?unless? is included. Haraam is used in reference to this place. It is a particular place of submitting as opposed to others. Haraam does not indicate hermetically sealed.
According to you?
That sounds a little like sarcasm lol Am I right?
I am a student also and thus far, this is what I know about the location of the masjidil haraam. It is not Mecca. The Bani Israel were in control of this place of submitting. The tricky translators call it a temple but the God says ?masjid?. The Bani Israel had nothing to do with the pagan shrine in Mecca. They were the ?guided?. I have a few ideas since these people are passing the perished nations, morning and night and the land is fertile. But, I?d prefer not to speculate. I?m looking for the proof. The reading says it?s a guide and explanations from the guidance and an explanation of ALL things. We are knocking our heads with the history, building a religion and missing the profound timeless information about our ?nafs? and the universe for all mankind contained in the reading. This is a reading that must be studied.
Profound stuff like
Who are the ?aleen in 3875? Or do we think the God was making a joke? There is nothing about the root meaning or the use of this word that indicates haughty or proud, that was already said.
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Shalaam gourself,
I think you are some what confused - you i think are saying masjid is a building or something!
The best man for the job is though Ayman for expalining this. He is good - very good on the understandings of what is a masjid - i think.
Masjid is never a building in the quran , if you think it is lets have a Go.
God Bless.
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peace
I think you are some what confused - you i think are saying masjid is a building or something!
I'm not confused at all. If you are not confused you wouldn't be waiting for someone else to come and explain what you claim to understand. I too made the mistake of just accepting what sounded reasonable without really understanding it for myself. I knew God wanted service without religion so it made sense. It assisted me to that end but I now understand, for myself, without the explanations of others. Masjid is a noun of place. No doubt! Bayt is a house! No doubt!
A masjid does not mean there are ritual prayers and nor are they enjoined on us. The reading contains a history of a people who have passed on along with a profound message for mankind. Masajid are part of the story. The Bani Israel had them too and they too were charged with the following closely . Their history is not an esoteric mysterious blend of injunctions for all times. The verses say exactly what they seem to say. They were being ejected by the Bani Israel from the place sanctioned by God for the rehearsing of His signs. They had to fight and turn them out. There were battles and people fled their homes. The reading must be studied, not read like a novel but the story is there.
Bring your proof otherwise, if you are truthful and knowing.
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Hi Gourself,all,
Here is the first,
3.Waman athlamu mimman manaAAamasajida Allahi an yuthkara feehaismuhu wasaAAa fee kharabiha ola-ikama kana lahum an yadkhulooha illa kha-ifeenalahum fee alddunya khizyun walahum fee al-akhiratiAAathabun AAatheemun
And who is more unjust than he who forbids that in places for the worship of Allah, Allah's name should be celebrated?-whose zeal is (in fact) to ruin them? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them except in fear. For them there is nothing but disgrace in this world, and in the world to come, an exceeding torment.
2114
And who is greater wrong doer then those (who) forbid masajida, acceptances/submissions, (of) Allah to admonish/ honour, in them His distinction/characteristic and strive in their ruin these people not was (proper) for them to enter them except in fear for them in the world (is) disgrace and for them in the hereafter torment great.Explanation
Let?s see an acceptance/submission - tell the truth even if a near relative is concerned, but in friendships relationships people will lie for one another and would thus be bringing ruin to the Allah?s characteristic of truthfulness. But they will be entering their submission in fear in case they were ever found out plus the fear of the hereafter.What is the reason of fear to enter a building or something?
just telling a lie is a submission which ruins the truth character of Allah . And you will fear when telling a lie plus the fear of the hereafter.
The place of salaa
008.035
YUSUFALI Their prayer at the House (of Allah) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed."Salaams.
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Peace,
Here is the first,
3.Waman athlamu mimman manaAAamasajida Allahi an yuthkara feehaismuhu wasaAAa fee kharabiha ola-ikama kana lahum an yadkhulooha illa kha-ifeenalahum fee alddunya khizyun walahum fee al-akhiratiAAathabun AAatheemun
And who is more unjust than he who forbids that in places for the worship of Allah, Allah's name should be celebrated?-whose zeal is (in fact) to ruin them? It was not fitting that such should themselves enter them except in fear. For them there is nothing but disgrace in this world, and in the world to come, an exceeding torment.
2114
And who is greater wrong doer then those (who) forbid masajida, acceptances/submissions, (of) Allah to admonish/ honour, in them His distinction/characteristic and strive in their ruin these people not was (proper) for them to enter them except in fear for them in the world (is) disgrace and for them in the hereafter torment great.Explanation
Let?s see an acceptance/submission - tell the truth even if a near relative is concerned, but in friendships relationships people will lie for one another and would thus be bringing ruin to the Allah?s characteristic of truthfulness. But they will be entering their submission in fear in case they were ever found out plus the fear of the hereafter.What is the reason of fear to enter a building or something?
just telling a lie is a submission which ruins the truth character of Allah . And you will fear when telling a lie plus the fear of the hereafter.
The place of salaa
008.035
YUSUFALI Their prayer at the House (of Allah) is nothing but whistling and clapping of hands (Its only answer can be), "Taste ye the penalty because ye blasphemed."The complete story is within the reading.
If you keep the context you will understand that the people of the scripture, ?Jews? and ?Christians? do not accept this messenger. He?s inviting all the people. They are disputing and differing among themselves. Those with the messenger are being admonished to ?stay strong? and keep doing as ordered, that is salaah, follow closely the rehearsal . They are told those who are hindering them from the masjid are a disgrace, will be punished in both lives and they are the ones who should be afraid to enter the masjid. They are bringing the masjid to ruin. They are just whistling and clapping their hands.The places, houses, where God?s descriptions/designations are being remembered, not His names. They are not His houses, they are for His purpose. The same descriptions He taught Adam to nabi, the messenger is nabi, informing the people. They are not praying. They are standing, sitting and lying on their sides. They are cleanly washed, dressed nicely, sober and they make room for whoever is joining.
It?s easy to understand if you don?t get esoteric and think the verse is addressing you, the reader. Ask yourself a question Where was the messenger ?natu? rehearsing the message? On the street corner? ) A little levity!
Answer In a masjid
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you said
"from the masjid"
you havn't shown any proof as such.
please provide proof from it rather then your own view.
there are numerouse ayah's using this word in the quran throw one or two which proof masjid is a physical thing. Thanks.
God Bless.
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Peace
you said
"from the masjid"
you havn't shown any proof as such.
please provide proof from it rather then your own view.
there are numerouse ayah's using this word in the quran throw one or two which proof masjid is a physical thing. Thanks.
Everywhere the word is masjid it is a noun of place. You can choose any verse you'd like and it is my proof. Open any basic book of grammar and a dictionary and follow the guidance in the reading to understand. The book explains itself. Don't rely on anyone else to provide you understanding and answers. I wish someone had told me that 30 years ago. I'd be dangerous. lol
If you are a student of the reading then you should already know that what I've said is not my view. I have no view. I'm just rendering the words as they read without adding any mysterious meanings or steering by translators. I'm not making up a story. The story I've related is in the reading and there is a corresponding verse to each of my statements. Please review what you think you know. The meaning of masjid and bayt remain consistent without any tweaking. You are confusing yourself. As I said, I too confused myself by accepting rationalizations as fact and trying to fit what is written into timeless injunctions. The former practice by people gone on of rehearsing God's message has been corrupted into holy houses and ritual prayers. The reading relates that a greater portion from among the former will be protected by the God from an-nar. Serve God without religion. We don't need to tweak anything. This message is in the book, an "eloquently, clearly expressed reading" that contains the "isma" of the God.
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Peace grourself. I sympathise with your idea of 'having no view',ie trying to be objective. But we are human,and can also make notable mistakes when doing this. I have seen internally and linguistically consistent interpretations which conclude the obligation of the sunnah of the prophet,(ie bukhari and muslim.) or justify oppresion/war against so-called non-muslims. Also if some of the verses are allegorical,how does grammar fit into the interpretations of these verses? Some people differ in the linguistic meaning of words and the application of the grammar.(ie they have different rules of grammer.) I dont believe the quran is a dictionary or a book of grammar. Can you know how to spell,write or pronounce an alif from the quran? Conscience,reason and intuition play a huge part in interpretating the quran,and can take precedence over 'internal verification' or purely literal grammer.(this type of internal verification can lead to circular reasoning.) I would also say that does not language and grammer evole/change over time? The 'spirit' or what the the verses are trying to achieve(universal peace.),are much more important than the 'cold' literalism/static,narrow and limited views,which can lead to harmful,irrational and random interpretations.Context and objectives/aims are also very important.
Peace. -
Why no proofs Gouself?
The following exerpts aren?t mine but I agree 100% with .
Ayman said
?The term "Mosque" is a modern Islamic term. The word "masjid" existed in the Arabic language before the prophet and before the great reading. The concept existed even before that as clear from passages such as 1821 and is put in contrast of a physical building in that passage.
002.149
YUSUFALI From whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; that is indeed the truth from the Lord. And Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.
PICKTHAL And whencesoever thou comest forth (for prayer, O Muhammad) turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship. Lo! IT is the Truth from thy Lord. Allah is not unaware of what ye do.
SHAKIR And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards the Sacred Mosque; and surely IT is the very truth from your Lord, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.We are clearly told in no uncertain terms that "al-masjid al-haram" is THE TRUTH FROM OUR LORD not a physical place.?
you said"Where was the messenger ?natu? rehearsing the message? On the street corner? A little levity! "whose natu?
God Bless.
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Enquirer wrote
Peace grourself. I sympathise with your idea of 'having no view',ie trying to be objective. But we are human,and can also make notable mistakes when doing this. I have seen internally and linguistically consistent interpretations which conclude the obligation of the sunnah of the prophet,(ie bukhari and muslim.) or justify oppresion/war against so-called non-muslims. Also if some of the verses are allegorical,how does grammar fit into the interpretations of these verses? Some people differ in the linguistic meaning of words and the application of the grammar.(ie they have different rules of grammer.) I dont believe the quran is a dictionary or a book of grammar. Can you know how to spell,write or pronounce an alif from the quran? Conscience,reason and intuition play a huge part in interpretating the quran,and can take precedence over 'internal verification' or purely literal grammer.(this type of internal verification can lead to circular reasoning.) I would also say that does not language and grammer evole/change over time? The 'spirit' or what the the verses are trying to achieve(universal peace.),are much more important than the 'cold' literalism/static views,which can lead to harmful,irrational and random interpretations.
Peace.I dont believe the quran is a dictionary or a book of grammar.
Salaamun,
That is why I?ve included that we must follow the guidance within the reading with that statement. The reading gives us a methodology for understanding. MQuran has written a great exposition on this method. In my years of studying the reading I?ve discovered that a simple mistranslation of a word can lead to much confusion. Conscience, reason and intuition can only aid us if we first are LITERALLY CLEAR ON WHAT IS BEING SAID. I?ve spent much time pondering over the esoteric and implied meanings of a verse only to discover years later that the verse didn?t even say what I was taught. There is no room in the reading for the evolution of the meanings of the words and this would certainly corrupt the meanings. The root meaning is what we should be seeking. It never changes and remains firmly planted. There is basic grammar in any coherent language, i.e, past, present. The coded rules of grammar in Arabic are based on Quranic usage and the grammarians are not infallible. However, the simple things like past tense, present tense, particles of purpose, prepositions of place and imperatives, gender, number etc. are not shaky. When rendering these things to English we can be certain of them. We must be careful to understand their usage. For example bi can never be translated as ?in? if you are clear on what it means and how it is used. That said, the translators get the very first word wrong when they write In the name of?
Bi with the help of, during, for, by, on account of, according to. It is used as a corroborative to confirm and to make more certain as in 28. According to Arabic usage the words as ashrau (I begin) or aqrau (I recite) would be taken to be understood with this. Thus the phrase bismillah is in fact equivalent to saying I begin with the help and assistance of the designation of the God. It is in accord with the commandment of 961. The English word ?in? is not the equivalent and appropriate of the this particle ba. It also denotes swear, comparison, in place of, for, from, over, on, a part of, at all, in rest of.
Mutashabiha is not allegorical. I will send you a private message that is a post from another forum that explains this. It is derived from sha-ba-ha alike. When the God gives us a parable, He states that He is giving us a parable and we don?t have to guess. It is a perfect example of rendering a word wrong that leads to the confusion that there are two types of verses in the reading.
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Ayman said
?The term "Mosque" is a modern Islamic term. The word "masjid" existed in the Arabic language before the prophet and before the great reading. The concept existed even before that as clear from passages such as 1821 and is put in contrast of a physical building in that passage.
Peace Simple,
Ayman is correct. You don?t seem to understand what he has written. Put on your thinking cap. )
?faqaloo ibnoo AAalayhim BUNYANAN rabbuhum aAAlamu bihim qala allatheena ghalaboo AAala amrihim LANATTAKHITHANNA AAalayhim MASJIDAN
1821
? so they said "Build/construct on them a BUILDING/STRUCTURE, their Lord (is) more knowledgeable with (of) them." Those who defeated/overcame on their matter/affair said "We will TAKE on them a PLACE OF SUBMITTING."9107
Waallatheena ITTAKHATHOO MASJIDAN diraran wakufran watafreeqan bayna almu/mineena wa-irsadan liman haraba Allaha warasoolahu min qablu walayahlifunna in aradna illa alhusna waAllahu yashhadu innahum lakathiboona9107
And those who TOOK a PLACE OF SUBMITTING(as a tool for) harming, and disbelief, and separation/distinction between the believers, and (as) a watch/observation/ambuscade (ambush place/shelter) to who battled/fought God and His messenger from before, and they swear/take oath "That we wanted/intended except the best/goodness ." And God witnesses/testifies that they truly are lying/denying .2941
Mathalu allatheena ITTAKHATHOO min dooni Allahi awliyaa kamathali alAAankabooti ITTAKHATHAT BAYTAN wa-inna AWHANA ALBUYOOTI labaytu alAAankabooti law kanoo yaAAlamoona(The) example (of) those who TOOK from other than God guardians/allies , (is) as the example (of) the spider, it TOOK A HOUSE/home, and that (the) WEAKEST/MOST FEEBLE (of) the HOUSES/HOMES, (is the) HOUSE/HOME (of) the spider, if they were knowing.
Sorry. Natu was a typo. Natlu we rehearse from tala to walk behind, rehearse, imitate, follow. Yutla is rehearsed. The messenger rehearsed the message.
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your transyou are adding a lot of words to bring about your interpretation
even though we all know a place doesn't harm anybody! at all.
9107
And those who TOOK a PLACE OF SUBMITTING(as a tool for) harming, and disbelief, and separation/distinction between the believers, and (as) a watch/observation/ambuscade (ambush place/shelter) to who battled/fought God and His messenger from before, and they swear/take oath "That we wanted/intended except the best/goodness ." And God witnesses/testifies that they truly are lying/denying .Actual trans
And as for those they took a submission/acceptance by way of harming and disbelief and to disunite (between) the believers and as a band of watcher lying in wait for those who warred Allah and His messenger sforetime and they will indeed swear that we want but good and Allah bears witness that they are certainly liers.
all your other verses you have quoted are all simerlarly floored.
But you stick with them.
God Bless us.