Direction of Prayers,the Ka'ba and Qibla!

JHamza

"Your question is vain . . . for it is not to the south that the Jews pray, nor either do the Mhaggraye (the Muslims). The Jews who live in Egypt, and also the Mhaggraye there, as I saw with my own eyes and will now set out for you, prayed to the east, and still do, both peoples?the Jews towards Jerusalem and the Mhaggraye towards the Ka'ba. And those Jews who are to the south of Jerusalem pray to the north; and those in the land of Babel, in Hira and in Basra, pray to the west. And also the Mhaggraye who are there pray to the west, towards the Ka'ba; and those who are to the south of the Ka'ba pray to the north, towards that place. So from all this that has been said, it is clear that it is not to the south that the Jews and Mhaggraye here in the regions of Syria pray, but towards Jerusalem or the Ka'ba, the patriarchal places of their races.

Jacob's accounts place the so-called Ka'ba in the same vicinity as Jerusalem as late as the beginning of the eighth century CE and demolishes the historicity of the present so-called Qibla in so-called Makkah. Now this is significant in light of the previous accounts discussed above about the Muslims building some sort of temple on the site of the temple mount in Jerusalem. This correlates with an interesting note by Arculf, the Pilgrim who in the 670s CE wrote the following

'In that famous place where once stood the magnificently constructed Temple, near the eastern wall, the Saracens now frequent a rectangular house of prayer which they have built in a crude manner, constructing it from raised planks and large beams over some remains of ruins. This house can, as it is said, accommodate at least 3000 people." http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3875

And quoted from Ayman

Prophet time - 630s No specific Saracen Temple
638-660s The first Saracen Temple in Jerusalem is established
660s-700 The second Saracen Temple in Jerusalem is established by taking over the Jewish Temple next to it
700-715 One of the Saracen Temples in Jerusalem acquired the name of Kaaba and the practice of facing this structure during prayer is noted
715-730 The Saracen Temple shifts to the desert of Arabia and is named Chobar
730s-740s The Saracen Temple in the desert of Arabia is named both Chabar and Kaaba (or something similar)
740s-Present The place of the Saracen Temple acquires the name Mekka and the Temple name Chabar quickly dies out and the name Kaaba takes over

From the above accounts from another thread on here we see that even historians as late as the 8thC.C.E. say that the Qibla was in the same vacinity of Jerusalem.Not as Traditionalist say in Mecca.

AbdulMajid

So the Noble Sanctuary (Temple Mount) in Jerusalem is the Kaaba and we are to face it while praying? I've always had the idea that I should face the Noble Sanctuary in Jerusalem (wherever that is in direction) and have it in my mind for a few seconds that my prayer is being heard at the Al-Aqsa Mosque. There is something about that mosque!

JHamza

So the Noble Sanctuary (Temple Mount) in Jerusalem is the Kaaba and we are to face it while praying? I've always had the idea that I should face the Noble Sanctuary in Jerusalem (wherever that is in direction) and have it in my mind for a few seconds that my prayer is being heard at the Al-Aqsa Mosque. There is something about that mosque!

Peace AbdulMajid,
Well Im still iffy on this whole Qibla theory at the time,but as we can see even from Non Islamic Historical records the first Saracen/Muslim Temple was at Jerusalem (638-660s The first Saracen Temple in Jerusalem is established) and not at modern Mecca... and this is the direction they faced before the shift to the modern Mecca in the desert between the yrs 715 and 730..
But if there is a direction we must face and a Qibla then I believe its towards Jerusalem and not the pagan shrine in modern Mecca.

Also read this if you havent already,The guy that wrote the artilce is biased and trying to discredit Islam and the Modern town of Mecca but in facts proves where the True Bakka really was.
http//www.geocities.com/spenta_mainyu/Bakka-1.htm

unknownuser

Salaamun alaikum brother JHamza, all,

I would urge everyone to go through the article at the following link to help us to form a proper understanding of what "qibla" actually is according to the great reading, along with a proper understanding of many other key concepts and terms used in the great reading

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

May The God guide us all to the truth and the straight path.

JHamza

Salaamun alaikum brother JHamza, all,

I would urge everyone to go through the article at the following link to help us to form a proper understanding of what "qibla" actually is according to the great reading, along with a proper understanding of many other key concepts and terms used in the great reading

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

May The God guide us all to the truth and the straight path.

Thanks for the article but any other source as to refute whats being said in it..Ive began to take most of what PM's write with a grain of salt..I think alot twist things including meanings of the Arabic to suite their aim just as do the sectarians..Not all but Im still hesitant to believe what most print..Ill have to look into the whole issue further as time allows.
At the time I Only See a couple of articles that I can recall on PM that have some good points,Layths articles on Pilgrimage and the Calendar,the one on What your hands possess,the one on Women the dress code and thats about it..

unknownuser

Salam Tanveer, all,

Salaamun alaikum brother JHamza, all,

I would urge everyone to go through the article at the following link to help us to form a proper understanding of what "qibla" actually is according to the great reading, along with a proper understanding of many other key concepts and terms used in the great reading

http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm

May The God guide us all to the truth and the straight path.

I would like to ask you and all my Brothers and Sisters here. If qibla is not qibla-) what was then the purpose of the command to the prophet in the Quran to "change the qibla" knowing that those who challenged him on this issue were people of the book? If you are following my qibla, would it make sense to me to ask you why are you changing your qibla if you are following mine? The biggest challenge for the prophet Mohamed came from people of the book and the Jews in particular so if they were already praying toward Jerusalem, what was then the purpose to change the qiblah (I know the purpose of the change as it is explained in the verse itself but I still would like to hear your understanding).
Please do not refer me to articles, I would just like to read your understanding of this issue even if you based it on your understanding of other articles.

Many thanks in advance for your reply.

Peace. Myr.

JHamza

I would like to ask you and all my Brothers and Sisters here. If qibla is not qibla-) what was then the purpose of the command to the prophet in the Quran to "change the qibla" knowing that those who challenged him on this issue were people of the book? If you are following my qibla, would it make sense to me to ask you why are you changing your qibla if you are following mine? The biggest challenge for the prophet Mohamed came from people of the book and the Jews in particular so if they were already praying toward Jerusalem, what was then the purpose to change the qiblah (I know the purpose of the change as it is explained in the verse itself but I still would like to hear your understanding).
Please do not refer me to articles, I would just like to read your understanding of this issue even if you based it on your understanding of other articles.

Many thanks in advance for your reply.

Peace. Myr.

Peace Sister Myr,

The Qibla is the direction we must face..not something in our minds...

I think it was just a test..see 2143-144.In vs 143 it speaks of a change that already accured so they were facing a different dirction than the restricted temple,then GOD in vs 144 tells Muhammad to face the restricted temple.Plus it was a test to see how faithful the followers of Muhammad were.

Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God Make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
2144
"Progressive Muslims"
We see the shifting of your face towards the sky, We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you "You shall set yourself towards the restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the scripture know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do.

unknownuser

Peace Sister Myr,

The Qibla is the direction we must face..not something in our minds...

I think it was just a test..see 2143-144.In vs 143 it speaks of a change that already accured so they were facing a different dirction than the restricted temple,then GOD in vs 144 tells Muhammad to face the restricted temple.Plus it was a test to see how faithful the followers of Muhammad were.

Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God Make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
2144
"Progressive Muslims"
We see the shifting of your face towards the sky, We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you "You shall set yourself towards the restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the scripture know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do.

The verse in Arabic clearly mentions "masjid" (mosque) but yet they want to translate it as "temple" while Jew temples and churches are mentioned in another verse with different names in Arabic. Also, the verses (including 2145) clearly show that those who were upset with the change of the qiblah were the people of the book (ahl al kitab) so why is that if it was about Jerusalem? wouldn't they be happy that it is Jerusalem? and yes I agree that the command to change the qiblah was a test mainly to distinguish the true believers from the hypocrites and disbelievers as per the verses but if this Qiblah is about Jerusalem and the mosque is now a temple, verse 2145 would have no meaning or sense to me-).

And God the All-Mighty knows best.
Peace. Myr.

Elke

Peace

Sura 2

The fools among the people will say "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say To Allah belong both east and West He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight.
Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do.
Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

Personnally in these verses as i read them today, nothing holds me from understanding that masjid al haram is a place within me. If 'geographical' test there was, it was at the times of the prophet.

The only thing that might bring humans together is to face themselves, in themselves, in that part of ours that is sacred, face the truth, analyse our actions, thrive to betterment which can only start inside ourselves.

elke

Elke

Peace

Sura 2

The fools among the people will say "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say To Allah belong both east and West He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight.
Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do.
Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

Personnally in these verses as i read them today, nothing holds me from understanding that masjid al haram is a place within me. If 'geographical' test there was, it was at the times of the prophet.

The only thing that might bring humans together is to face themselves, in themselves, in that part of ours that is sacred, face the truth, analyse our actions, thrive to betterment which can only start inside ourselves.

elke

Elke

Peace

Sura 2

The fools among the people will say "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say To Allah belong both east and West He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight.
Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Messenger from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by Allah. And never would Allah Make your faith of no effect. For Allah is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do.
Even if thou wert to bring to the people of the Book all the Signs (together), they would not follow Thy Qibla; nor art thou going to follow their Qibla; nor indeed will they follow each other's Qibla. If thou after the knowledge hath reached thee, Wert to follow their (vain) desires,-then wert thou Indeed (clearly) in the wrong.

Personnally in these verses as i read them today, nothing holds me from understanding that masjid al haram is a place within me. If 'geographical' test there was, it was at the times of the prophet.

The only thing that might bring humans together is to face themselves, in themselves, in that part of ours that is sacred, face the truth, analyse our actions, thrive to betterment which can only start inside ourselves.

elke

JHamza

Peace Sister Myr,

The Qibla is the direction we must face..not something in our minds...

I think it was just a test..see 2143-144.In vs 143 it speaks of a change that already accured so they were facing a different dirction than the restricted temple,then GOD in vs 144 tells Muhammad to face the restricted temple.Plus it was a test to see how faithful the followers of Muhammad were.

Thus, have We made of you an Ummat justly balanced, that ye might be witnesses over the nations, and the Apostle a witness over yourselves; and We appointed the Qibla to which thou wast used, only to test those who followed the Apostle from those who would turn on their heels (From the Faith). Indeed it was (A change) momentous, except to those guided by God. And never would God Make your faith of no effect. For God is to all people Most surely full of kindness, Most Merciful.
2144
"Progressive Muslims"
We see the shifting of your face towards the sky, We will thus set for you a focal point that will be pleasing to you "You shall set yourself towards the restricted Temple; and wherever you may be, you shall all set yourselves towards it." Those who have been given the scripture know it is the truth from their Lord. And God is not unaware of what you do.

The verse in Arabic clearly mentions "masjid" (mosque) but yet they want to translate it as "temple" while Jew temples and churches are mentioned in another verse with different names in Arabic. Also, the verses (including 2145) clearly show that those who were upset with the change of the qiblah were the people of the book (ahl al kitab) so why is that if it was about Jerusalem? wouldn't they be happy that it is Jerusalem? and yes I agree that the command to change the qiblah was a test mainly to distinguish the true believers from the hypocrites and disbelievers as per the verses but if this Qiblah is about Jerusalem and the mosque is now a temple, verse 2145 would have no meaning or sense to me-).

And God the All-Mighty knows best.
Peace. Myr.

Salaam Sister Myr,
You are correct and Masjid doesnt mean temple..it means "Place of the Submitted",Masjid al-Haram(Place of the submitted that is restricted;i.e. restricted from non believers and from certain acts) simply refers to the general area thats called the temple mount today..

As for qibla,it seems to be refering to the beliefs of the people,though I could be wrong.
2145Even if you show the followers of the scripture every kind of miracle, they will not follow your beliefs. Nor shall you follow their beliefs. They do not even follow each others' beliefs. If you acquiesce to their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you, you will belong with the transgressors.
2146 Those who received the scripture recognize the truth herein, as they recognize their own children. Yet, some of them conceal the truth, knowingly.

2150
So wherever you start from, turn your face in the direction of the Restricted Mosque; and whereever you are, Turn your face that way that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and you May be guided;

But We can see from2150 that the direction we face must all be in unity that way there is no dispute or disunity!

RiseUpMyPpl

maybe the "restricted place of prostration" is paradise/bliss?

ayman

Peace JHamza,

Well Im still iffy on this whole Qibla theory at the time,but as we can see even from Non Islamic Historical records the first Saracen/Muslim Temple was at Jerusalem (638-660s

The first temple established when the Saracen took over Jerusalem (638-660s) was a Jewish temple.

The word "Muslim" doesn't occur in any writings (Islamic or otherwise) until after the mid 8th century CE. The Romans often referred to "Saracen" as a general term for the Arabs. This term included Arab pagans and what they called "Muhagarayye" (most likely "Muhajirin"). But it also sometimes included Arab Christians and Jews.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Myr,

I would like to ask you and all my Brothers and Sisters here. If qibla is not qibla-) what was then the purpose of the command to the prophet in the Quran to "change the qibla" knowing that those who challenged him on this issue were people of the book? If you are following my qibla, would it make sense to me to ask you why are you changing your qibla if you are following mine?

You are right and hence in 2142 the foolish people ask "what made them reject the "qibla" that they were on?" Aren't there foolish people amongst Sunnis, Shia and pretty much every sect and religion? Who are NOT the foolish people according to the great reading? Is it people who face a certain physical direction?

The biggest challenge for the prophet Mohamed came from people of the book and the Jews in particular so if they were already praying toward Jerusalem, what was then the purpose to change the qiblah (I know the purpose of the change as it is explained in the verse itself but I still would like to hear your understanding).

As you said, the purpose is clealy mentioned in the passage as "to know who follows the messenger from who turns on his heels". So the question is how can a physical direction accomplish that purpose?

It is also said in the passage that the previous "qibla" is a big deal except for those that The God guided. Who is the previous "qibla" a big deal for?

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Myr,

The verse in Arabic clearly mentions "masjid" (mosque) but yet they want to translate it as "temple" while Jew temples and churches are mentioned in another verse with different names in Arabic.

The term "Mosque" is a modern Islamic term. The word "masjid" existed in the Arabic language before the prophet and before the great reading. The concept existed even before that as clear from passages such as 1821 and is put in contrast of a physical building in that passage.

Also, the verses (including 2145) clearly show that those who were upset with the change of the qiblah were the people of the book (ahl al kitab) so why is that if it was about Jerusalem? wouldn't they be happy that it is Jerusalem?

Yes, you are right. So it can't be Jerusalem.

and yes I agree that the command to change the qiblah was a test mainly to distinguish the true believers from the hypocrites and disbelievers as per the verses but if this Qiblah is about Jerusalem and the mosque is now a temple, verse 2145 would have no meaning or sense to me-).

So how would facing a certain physical direction distinguish between the hypocrites and the true believers? Can't hypocrites easily face a certain physical direction?

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace JHamza,

You are correct and Masjid doesnt mean temple..it means "Place of the Submitted",Masjid al-Haram(Place of the submitted that is restricted;i.e. restricted from non believers and from certain acts) simply refers to the general area thats called the temple mount today..

As for qibla,it seems to be refering to the beliefs of the people,though I could be wrong.
2145Even if you show the followers of the scripture every kind of miracle, they will not follow your beliefs. Nor shall you follow their beliefs. They do not even follow each others' beliefs. If you acquiesce to their wishes, after the knowledge that has come to you, you will belong with the transgressors.
2146 Those who received the scripture recognize the truth herein, as they recognize their own children. Yet, some of them conceal the truth, knowingly.

2150
So wherever you start from, turn your face in the direction of the Restricted Mosque; and whereever you are, Turn your face that way that there be no ground of dispute against you among the people, except those of them that are bent on wickedness; so fear them not, but fear Me; and that I may complete My favours on you, and you May be guided;

But We can see from2150 that the direction we face must all be in unity that way there is no dispute or disunity!

You are getting close to the truth.

One can see the truth shining through even in Sunni-influenced translations

002.148
YUSUFALI To each is a goal to which Allah turns him; then strive together (as in a race) Towards all that is good. Wheresoever ye are, Allah will bring you Together. For Allah Hath power over all things.
PICKTHAL And each one hath a goal toward which he turneth; so vie with one another in good works. Wheresoever ye may be, Allah will bring you all together. Lo! Allah is Able to do all things.
SHAKIR And every one has a direction to which he should turn, therefore hasten to (do) good works; wherever you are, Allah will bring you all together; surely Allah has power over all things.

Notice how YUSUFALI and PICKTHAL translate "qibla" as "goal" in 2148 because "striving together towards all that is good" or "vie with one another in good works" makes absolutely no sense in relation to a physical direction.

002.149
YUSUFALI From whencesoever Thou startest forth, turn Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque; that is indeed the truth from the Lord. And Allah is not unmindful of what ye do.
PICKTHAL And whencesoever thou comest forth (for prayer, O Muhammad) turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship. Lo! IT is the Truth from thy Lord. Allah is not unaware of what ye do.
SHAKIR And from whatsoever place you come forth, turn your face towards the Sacred Mosque; and surely IT is the very truth from your Lord, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do.

We are clearly told in no uncertain terms that "al-masjid al-haram" is THE TRUTH FROM OUR LORD not a physical place.

So set as your goal the truth from your Lord. This is what differentiates the hypocrites from the believers. But of course many people see a physical direction as more important. Indeed a physical direction (the previous "qibla") is a big deal except for those who The God guided.

Peace,

Ayman

ayman

Peace Myr,

From verses 2144-145, there is absolutly no doubt for me that it is physical and I totally disagree with your translation or interpretation of these verses.

The previous "qibla" was indeed physical. But not the new one. You haven't really explained how facing a certain direction during prayer distinguishes for The God the believers from the hypocrites. What I gave above are not my translations. These are Sunni influenced translations and yet one can clearly see the truth shining through.

The message to Moses came in tablets (al'wah) and was called "hudan" guidance so if I follow your reasoning, the tablets are not physical since For me in arabic it is clear "taqalubba wajheek fi al sama2) can not be non-physical, take even a child who understands Arabic and have him tell you what is his understanding of the expression -) .

"taqalubba wajheek fi al sama2" is exactly what every person who is facing a physical direction is happily doing. On the other hand, as clear from 2144 the prophet was not satisfied with that. Even children now know that the earth is spherical and hence you would in fact be facing random regions in outer space. Also, because the earth is turning, your direction would also be also turning in the sky. Notice the same verb "qalab" is used in 2444 to describe the rotation of the earth.

This brings us to 2145. Because small angular differences when projected over long distances become very large differences, you and the person praying right next to you would in fact be NOT facing the same "qibla". This is indisputable. So indeed as 2145 says, those who don't follow the "qibla" of the truth are not following the "qibla" of each other. They are only imagining/fantacising to be facing Mecca or wherever so this is following "ahwa'a"/fantasies exactly as 2145 describes.

Now going back to your question on what would distinguish the true believes from hypocrites. Verse 243 answers your question. It is obvious in the arabic verse taht the command to change the qiblah is mainly "li na3'lama man yattabe3 al rassoul " that we know those who will follow the messenger. The hypocrites have already claimed they are following the prophet so if it is not physical I don't know therefore how the poor prophet will distinguish them since they are claiming believing in God and attesting he is the messenger (see all the other verses on hypocrites). Their characteristics are physical based on the Arabic Quran , they come to prayers lazy, they do charities to show off, they love making fuss of anything and everytthing just to annoy and defy the messenger, they love to find excuses for not fighting in the way of God, and so on and so on, this is all physical, it is about an attitude and behavior clearly expressed by them.

Firstly, there is nothing particularly challenging or amazing about pretending to be facing a certain direction like evryone else. Traitors face the flag and salute it all the time. In fact, it is behind such mindless physical symbols that hypocrites and traitors prefer to hide.

Secondly, you are misreading the clear Arabic of the passage. There is no mention of the prophet distinguishing anything. 2143 clearly says "lina3lam" (for Us to know) so it is for The God to distinguish.

Help us understand why facing a certain physical direction is such a big deal. Your signature says that the one who is blind is not equal to the one who sees. Using your logic about "this is all physical", I guess blind people are out of luck. But of course, you know that is not true in the same way that you know that the straight path in 2142 is not a highway to Mecca. Indeed, you know the real "qibla" as you know your own children.

Peace,

Ayman

unknownuser

Peace ayman. You make some excellent observations,and ask some good questions.
How does physically facing a direction distinguish a person as behaving peacefully(islamically.) or not? It surely is the attitude,intention and acts of a person which shows their behaviour as 'islamic'(peaceful.) or not. Otherwise people who pray towards mecca,yet bomb innocent people are thus regarded as behaving peacefully? shock
Peace all.

phoenix1

peace Myr,

can you please explain what the Qibla is (even though you probably have somewhere else)?
just in a few sentences.