Some Of You Don't believe in "Allahu Akbar"?
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Peace Ahmed,
The fact remains that Abraham was referring to the sun when he said haza akbar. Actually Abraham never spoke Arabic, but Allah is quoting him in Arabic. Maybe the word used for sun in Abraham's language was masculine. The sun appears bigger than the moon 90 % of the time because the moon goes through stages, and I think that is the reason Abraham thought the sun was akbar.
The fact also remains that Allah never used akbar for Himself in al-qur'aan. Just because Abraham used the word does not mean that Allah is sanctioning it.
The verse in which Allah mentions some of His names as the beautiful names contains attributes of Allah that are called the beautiful names. So attributes of Allah can also be His names, at least the ones mentioned in that verse. Hence for Allah, attributes = names and names = attributes. Allah clearly tells us not to create names for Him that He has not authorized (which also includes attributes because attribute = name as far as Allah is concerned), and He has never used the attribute akbar for Himself.
Abraham calling the sun akbar is no proof that akbar is an attribute of Allah as Allah has never used it for Himself in al-qur'aan. If Abraham using akbar for the sun mistakenly assuming it to be god makes it an attribute of Allah, then by the same logic Dhulqarnain seeing the sun set in a boiling lake means that the sun can set in a boiling lake.
Therefore, apart from conjecturing based on Abraham's usage of akbar, there is no qur'aanic proof that akbar is Allah's attribute because
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Allah NEVER uses the attribute akbar for Himself in al-qur'aan. Who knows His name/attribute ? Allah or Abraham ?
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Allah clearly tells us not to create names (attributes) for Him that He has not authorized.
You can stick to whatever your understanding is, but do not justify that understanding based on qur'aan. Also you cannot say that Abraham was not referring to the sun by saying haza akbar, because obviously he was. Even if he mistakenly thought the sun to be his god, he still was referring to the sun by that phrase.
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Peace Ahmed,
The fact remains that Abraham was referring to the sun when he said haza akbar. Actually Abraham never spoke Arabic, but Allah is quoting him in Arabic. Maybe the word used for sun in Abraham's language was masculine. The sun appears bigger than the moon 90 % of the time because the moon goes through stages, and I think that is the reason Abraham thought the sun was akbar.
The fact also remains that Allah never used akbar for Himself in al-qur'aan. Just because Abraham used the word does not mean that Allah is sanctioning it.
The verse in which Allah mentions some of His names as the beautiful names contains attributes of Allah that are called the beautiful names. So attributes of Allah can also be His names, at least the ones mentioned in that verse. Hence for Allah, attributes = names and names = attributes. Allah clearly tells us not to create names for Him that He has not authorized (which also includes attributes because attribute = name as far as Allah is concerned), and He has never used the attribute akbar for Himself.
Abraham calling the sun akbar is no proof that akbar is an attribute of Allah as Allah has never used it for Himself in al-qur'aan. If Abraham using akbar for the sun mistakenly assuming it to be god makes it an attribute of Allah, then by the same logic Dhulqarnain seeing the sun set in a boiling lake means that the sun can set in a boiling lake.
Therefore, apart from conjecturing based on Abraham's usage of akbar, there is no qur'aanic proof that akbar is Allah's attribute because
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Allah NEVER uses the attribute akbar for Himself in al-qur'aan. Who knows His name/attribute ? Allah or Abraham ?
-
Allah clearly tells us not to create names (attributes) for Him that He has not authorized.
You can stick to whatever your understanding is, but do not justify that understanding based on qur'aan. Also you cannot say that Abraham was not referring to the sun by saying haza akbar, because obviously he was. Even if he mistakenly thought the sun to be his god, he still was referring to the sun by that phrase.
excuse man, you are gettin realkly boring, I also say the same to you You can stick to whatever your understanding is, but do not justify that understanding based on qur'aan.
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Peace ab and tanvermed. Ah...two peaceful brothers united by their clear,perfect book. D
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Peace ab and tanvermed. Ah...two peaceful brothers united by their clear,perfect book.
well enq,
this is one hell of a shifty comment, but I'm not surprised that it comes from a clear cut enemy of Islam, look I have no problem with tanveermd, i think he is young and he also sounds like someone I know therefore i will always be peaceful with him. when I told him that he is gettin boring, I guess it was the fact as I saw it, he may not be boring to others, so please don't act shifty by trying to strir the air between two brothers, you are going lower and lower and I guess it will come to a point where you will look very low indeed
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Peace ab and tanvermed. AbCant take the plain real truth eh mister? One rule for the people you call brother and other rules for those you class as 'others'? Why dont you realise its not allahs opinions but your own egos which are talking,which is why you two are not being peaceful,even though you claim to follow the same clear,perfect book and the same god. I dont need to stir things up between you two,you have both shown your more than capable of stirring up sectarianism and misplaced animosity among your own selves and your own 'united' umma.(community.) Where is the community of muslims allah talks about as being 'the best community raised for mankind'? Are you guys a part of it?
Peace all. ps;youre like an illusionist mate. ) -
Peace ab and tanvermed. AbCant take the plain real truth eh mister? One rule for the people you call brother and other rules for those you class as 'others'?
mister smart, you are gettin boring as well, but let me respond to another silly BS by you
the people in the world are 3 groups for me
- the brothers and sisters in faith
- the brothers and sisters in humanity (who reject my faith peacfully and don't rant)
- the enemy of my religion (the ones who rants and promote lies and BS about my religion, like you)
you belonged one day to group 2, but now you belonge to group 3, therefore i don't consider you a brother in humanity any more, my right i guess
Why dont you realise its not allahs opinions but your own egos which are talking,which is why you two are not being peaceful,
another typical BS script by a professional, excuse me mister smart, the Quran allows us to differ in opinions as long as they are minor ones, however me and brother tanveermd agree that the Quran is the words of Allah and we submitted to him, we only trying yo know our reiligion better from the words of Allah, and because these words are not human made, it is not going to be easy for humans to comprehend it as far as i'm concerned, therefore i don't consider the Quran for the faint hearted from the first place
even though you claim to follow the same clear,perfect book and the same god.
yes, at least you know it now that we follow the same God and the same Book, it is a matter of resolving minor differences, i believe these minor differences are the same as the one between the Quran alone and the sunnah advocates
I dont need to stir things up between you two,you have both shown your more than capable of stirring up sectarianism and misplaced animosity among your own selves and your own 'united' umma.(community.) Where is the community of muslims allah talks about as being 'the best community raised for mankind'? Are you guys a part of it?
of course you need to, that is what you are doing since you joined here and btw our ummah is not united yet, but it will happen for sure
Peace all. ps;youre like an illusionist mate. o
This is bizzare enq, now you end your comments with "peace all" accompanied with an insult
how hypocrite you are mate?
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Peace ab. That wasnt an insult,that was a statement to show you a few home truths mister. You are believing in pipe dreams and illusions.
Do you mean the 'minor differences' like;
sucide bombings,killing of innocents and each other, alcohol consumption,salat,sunni and shiah,wahabbis,hajj, should we follow hadith?,allah hu akbar,literal or symbolic interpretations,what defines a muslim,virgin births,angels with wings,calling different muslim groups idolators,unity of the arab muslim states,prophets birthday,ahmedis,druse,alawis,nation of islam,madhabs,salafis,19 code,hafs version of quran,warsh version of quran,vowels in the original quran or not? is bismillah the first verse or not?why no bismillah in surah 9,or are surah 8 and 9 one surah,hadith claiming some of the original quran is lost or abrogated or not written but still applies etc,etc...
Give me a call when this unity occurs... you have had 1400 years to do it mister. o ) In the meantime some of the western liberal democracies are showing you guys much better political systems,unity,science,and morals by trying to observe and follow some humane,real,verified,natural universal laws... ) o
Peace all. -
Peace AB,
It wasn't enough that this dude had a thread to refute his issues, which he completely refused to participate in 'intellectually' or 'discuss' in...now he is going around posting on other threads and stirring shit up as usual. This is dishonest and unfair.
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Peace. Dishonest and unfair?...almost a perfect description of those with dogmatic,literal,immoral quranic interpretations. Perhaps you can refute me with one of your literal interpretations?
You crying foul now because of what your own hands have sown...well return to the natural path of truth and reality and soothe yourself with peace... -
Peace. Dishonest and unfair?...almost a perfect description of those with dogmatic,literal,immoral quranic interpretations. Perhaps you can refute me with one of your literal interpretations?
Are you serious? You seem detached from reality. Check out your contradictions thread and start refuting people there one by one who gave their time to post refutations that you ignored.You crying foul now because of what your own hands have sown...well return to the natural path of truth and reality and soothe yourself with peace...
You have really lost it.
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Peace. Like i said before,when i see posts that i feel need responding to,i will. You look after your own affairs and i will look after mine...
Good day and peace to you. -
Peace AB,
It wasn't enough that this dude had a thread to refute his issues, which he completely refused to participate in 'intellectually' or 'discuss' in...now he is going around posting on other threads and stirring s*** up as usual. This is dishonest and unfair.
That is why sister these sort of debates must have rules and judges, look how he jumped to zillions of other subjects in his last comment to me, i guess i have given him more than enough time to prove himself and he failed really bad
Salam sister, it is time to go to bed, good night all
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Enquirer- Like I said before dishonest and unfair. If your 'affairs'/issues didn't involve a public forum, you would be entitled to your 'own' affairs/issues. You bring these issues in every chance you get and them run away from them when they are addressed and start anew. Not right.
AB, I agree...there must be some rules here regarding this 'behaviour'. It shouldn't be allowed to run amok.
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Peace all. So ironic that the poster who most abuses rules of language,etiquette(eg swearing in posts etc..) and who threatens with slaps and calls people enemies of god etc...is asking for rules and judges,and he is addressing another poster who is one of the most sarcastic and argumentative.(surely the most sarcastic and argumentative sister.)... You reap what you sow...
Peace all. ps; surah 83; verses1-6..check out the symbolisms in these you two...
Ring any bells or raise any alarms...? -
If you are what you claim you are, address the issues and don't waylay them by throwing in your red herrings as usual.