Is "false accusation" allowed?
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Salams
I was reading chapter 12. This chapter is based on the story of Joseph.
I am not sure if I understood the story correctly. What I gathered from 1270 is that Joseph deliberately placed a drinking cup in his brother's bag so that his brother could be retained in his country.
012.070
Falamma jahhazahum bijahazihim jaAAala alssiqayata fee rahli akheehi thumma aththana mu-aththinun ayyatuha alAAeeru innakum lasariqoona
YUSUFALI At length when he had furnished them forth with provisions (suitable) for them, he put the drinking cup into his brother's saddle-bag. Then shouted out a crier "O ye (in) the caravan! behold! ye are thieves, without doubt!"
PICKTHAL And when he provided them with their provision, he put the drinking-cup in his brother's saddlebag, and then a crier cried O camel-riders! Lo! ye are surely thieves!
SHAKIR So when he furnished them with their provisions, (someone) placed the drinking cup in his brother's bag. Then a crier cried out O caravan! you are most surely thieves.
KHALIFA When he provided them with their provisions, he placed the drinking cup in his brother's bag, then an announcer announced "The owners of this caravan are thieves."If my understanding is right, then this leads to a question Was Joseph's deceptive action acceptable in Islam? He was a muslim (submitter) I believe. Does that mean we can practice deception to achieve higher objectives?
My take was that placing a false blame on someone is an unacceptable act even though if we have a higher good objective in mind. God would not sanction it for muslims under any circumstances.
Any comments?
Salaam OracleMir,
Good question..
Not sure so I'll let some else answer the question.
But on the same note,if you were in a situation that would prevent something bad to happen even death to a loved one,would you lie to keep them safe or tell the truth and see harm or death come to them?Would this be acceptable in Islaam? -
Salams JHamza
My position is According to Quran we should not lie even in the situation described by you.
6152 .... You shall be absolutely just when you bear witness, even against your relatives ...
I think I have came accross other verse(s) as well where telling the truth is emphasized upon.
Personally I am a week person ... I am not sure what I would do ...
After reading the story in chapter 12 I am not sure if "playing games" are allowed for a higher good purpose or not.
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Salaams OracleMir,
Then we shouldnt lie then no matter what..But I am sure if we lie in a situation before we think about what we are doing GOD will forgive us,for He is All Forgiving-Just..
I too would probably be to weak and I am not sure what I would do in such a situation..As for Joseph's account I think he may have not been thinking straight at the time and later repented of the deed.I'll have to read the Surah to see if it mentions anything like that..Or do you know of any where in the Quran that says he later repented? But even if it doesnt mention it,I believe since he was a Muslim that he most likely did repent.Even Muhammad did things that were not acceptable,and GOD corrected him...We all are human and all do things we later regret..This doesnt make us less Muslims.Only when we do things we shouldnt and know it and dont repent then we are in danger.
Peace
Salams JHamza
My position is According to Quran we should not lie even in the situation described by you.
6152 .... You shall be absolutely just when you bear witness, even against your relatives ...
I think I have came accross other verse(s) as well where telling the truth is emphasized upon.
Personally I am a week person ... I am not sure what I would do ...
After reading the story in chapter 12 I am not sure if "playing games" are allowed for a higher good purpose or not.
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Peace all. To save a life or to prevent serious harm a lie is acceptable. Note the haram(forbidden.) food becomes halal(acceptable.) when ones life is in danger or serious harm is imminent.(2173.) Even kufr(not real kufr,but lying by saying you are a non-believer to save your life,etc..) is acceptable in a situation of compulsion.(16106.)
Peace all. -
Peace all. To save a life or to prevent serious harm a lie is acceptable. Note the haram(forbidden.) food becomes halal(acceptable.) when ones life is in danger or serious harm is imminent.(2173.) Even kufr(not real kufr,but lying by saying you are a non-believer to save your life,etc..) is acceptable in a situation of compulsion.(16106.)
Peace all.Peace Enquirer,all
Interesting point..We all know that eating pork is forbidden but if we are starving and its the only thing around,we are allowed to eat it to survive.
And we can lie about being Muslims if we are pressured to save ones life..But one question in 16107 it says people would do this because we love life or this world..wouldnt that apply to someone that lies about being Muslim just to stay alive?Wouldnt telling the truth and being killed for being a Muslim be better?
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Peace jhamza and all. I believe 16;107 is referring to those who want to choose kufr over belief in reality,not to those who believe but lie to save themselves. Also if you have children,family,responsibilities etc... we need to think about them if we die. Life is very precious. We have to look at the bigger picture. I dont think to die for the sake of ideaology is necessary or wise,in fact it can be very selfish,harmful and extreme. Just look at current world events; the suffering,and the terrorism......in the name of god and ideology..... shock Peace all.
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Peace
False accusation will be bad if i want to hurt the accused, however the case with Yusuf can't be classified as false accusation because the accused was told of the plan in advance
And when they went in to Yusuf. he lodged his brother with himself, saying I am your brother, therefore grieve not at what they do.
(69)
and the story continues after, therefore the accused is part of the plan and the whole saga can't be classified as FALSE ACCUSATION
peace
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Peace
It's worth noting that the plan set was by Allah and not by Yusuf
So he began (the search) with their baggage, before (he came to) the baggage of his brother at length he brought it out of his brother's baggage. Thus did We plan for Joseph. He could not take his brother by the law of the king except that Allah willed it (so). We raise to degrees (of wisdom) whom We please but over all endued with knowledge is one, the All-Knowing.
(76)
Clearly, 1276 tells us that it was Allah plan and His will, therefore it can't be false accusation
peace
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Peace jhamza and all. I believe 16;107 is referring to those who want to choose kufr over belief in reality,not to those who believe but lie to save themselves. Also if you have children,family,responsibilities etc... we need to think about them if we die. Life is very precious. We have to look at the bigger picture. I dont think to die for the sake of ideaology is necessary or wise,in fact it can be very selfish,harmful and extreme. Just look at current world events; the suffering,and the terrorism......in the name of god and ideology..... shock Peace all.
Salams all
Enquirer has quoted a very relevant verse here 16107. It clearly says that it is ok to uttered kufr under compulsion.
Keeping 6152 and 16106 in mind what would you do in this situation
You have killed a person in hatred. Now you are called to the court. Judge asks you 'Did you kill?'. You know if you answer in affirmation you will get a death penalty for sure. You also know that there are no witnesses (except God) and you can easily get away from this by denying the charges. Under Quranic principals are you suppose to do as a muslim in this situation? Are you allowed to lie?
6152 .... You shall be absolutely just when you bear witness, even against your relatives ...
16106 Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.
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False accusation will be bad if i want to hurt the accused, however the case with Yusuf can't be classified as false accusation because the accused was told of the plan in advance
Salams
Good point. The accused was aware of the scheme so there was no false accusation.
Seems like when system does not work in your favor, you are allowed to manufacture schemes.
?He then started by inspecting their containers, before getting to his brother's container, and he extracted it out of his brother's container. We thus perfected the scheme for Joseph; he could not have kept his brother if he applied the king's religion. But that was the will of GOD. We exalt whomever we choose to higher ranks. Above every knowledgeable one, there is one who is even more knowledgeable.? (Quran 1276)
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Peace oraclemir. In that scenario you have to take the situation,context and several factors into account. Whatever one decides,it should be decided on with,wisdom,conscience,knowledge of the potential consequences to yourself and the family of the deceased,the effect on society...It should also be done in a loving/compassionate/empathetic unbiased way...which is easier said than done. And the end result should be the maximium benefit for all concerned,not just for ourself.
peace all. -
False accusation will be bad if i want to hurt the accused, however the case with Yusuf can't be classified as false accusation because the accused was told of the plan in advance
Salams
Good point. The accused was aware of the scheme so there was no false accusation.
Seems like when system does not work in your favor, you are allowed to manufacture schemes.
?He then started by inspecting their containers, before getting to his brother's container, and he extracted it out of his brother's container. We thus perfected the scheme for Joseph; he could not have kept his brother if he applied the king's religion. But that was the will of GOD. We exalt whomever we choose to higher ranks. Above every knowledgeable one, there is one who is even more knowledgeable.? (Quran 1276)
Peace
Yes this is true that we are allowed to manfacturer schemes but ONLY if it is for the truth and Haqq to be exposed and a big lesson is given, so not in our favours rather for the Truth favour
Allah told us about Himslef that He is the best who makes schemes
YUSUFALI And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
PICKTHAL And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them) and Allah is the best of schemers.
SHAKIR And they planned and Allah (also) planned, and Allah is the best of planners.
(54)
Peace
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Yes this is true that we are allowed to manfacturer schemes but ONLY if it is for the truth and Haqq to be exposed and a big lesson is given, so not in our favours rather for the Truth favour
In that scenario you have to take the situation,context and several factors into account. Whatever one decides,it should be decided on with,wisdom,conscience,knowledge of the potential consequences to yourself and the family of the deceased,the effect on society...
Salams enquirer/AhmedBahgat
Well said both of you ... I have learnt a great deal.
Stories and parables mentioned in Quran attacks my attention a lot. Chapter 12 is an incredible story indeed, replete with wisdom.