Was Quran the first one to announce that earth is not flat?
-
Here we go brother, please read it carefully and tell me honestely what you think, even if it sound BS to you
Salams
Great verse indeed to ponder on.
DALEELAN
What is the exact meaning of the last word of 2445 "daleelan"?
Translators have translated this as evidence, guide, indication, pilot ...
Lets assume "daleelan" means evidence. Lets now analyze what the verse is saying under both scenarios.
SCENARIO 1
ASSUMPTIONS Earth rotates on its axis. The sun is relatively stationary.I am standing outside in a broad day light. I have a shadow. The size of the shadow is continuously changing due to earth's rotation.
Lets say God now wants to make my shadow stationary. The earth stops rotating at that moment.
I will notice that my shadow becomes constant. The stationary sun will notice the same thing.
Both earth and Sun are now stationary. The stationary sun will keep on witnessing this event until the earth starts rotating again.
SCENARIO 2
ASSUMPTIONS Earth if flat and stationary. Sun is moving around it.I am standing outside in a broad day light. I will have a shadow. The size of the shadow is continuously changing due to sun's movement around the earth.
Lets say God now wants to make my shadow stationary. The sun stops moving around the earth at that moment. I will notice that my shadow becomes constant. The sun will winenss that this event as well.
Both earth and Sun are now stationary. The stationary sun will keep on witnessing this event until the Sun starts moving again.
CONCLUSION
The Sun can witness the stationary shadow in both scenarios.
The "Sun daleelan" part of the verse holds true under both assumptions.
This characteristic of Quran is worth appreciating. God can fit in a verse which holds true under wrong assumptions of 1400s and under known scientific facts of this century.
Did I get it right or is there something else to it?
-
Thank you bro
yes man you got it really right and added some thoughts to it as well, thanks a lot
my only note is this, the Quran never said Allah will stop the earth neither the sun, Allah only said He would have stopped the shade movement, and because the objects on earth are part of the earth, so the verse means indirectly stopping the earth than really stopping the sun, especially we know that the earth rotation around itself is the reason for the shade movement
Daleela means an evidence, but you have to note that the verse didnlt say the sun will be an evidence for the shade, we know that already, the verse clearly say it will be an evidence that the shade has stopped from moving
peace
-
Peace be upon you,
The ancient Egyptians created the oldest recorded calendar. The mathematics involved with such an accomplishment are at a high level, they certainly knew the earth was round. We have to be careful because certain cultures history are pushed in the face of mankind while others are written out of history or credited to others.
-
The ancient Egyptians created the oldest recorded calendar.
Salams
Looks like you are right. Greeks knew that the earth is a sphere in 140 AD.
I am not sure if they also knew that it is the earth that is revolving around the Sun.
I am wondering what was the prevailing belief among arabs regarding this subject.
Ptolemy produced a map of a globular Earth as early as AD 140 The ancient Greeks didn't do anything energetic like sailing round the world, but they did sit and think a lot. They not only came up with a realistic theory for the shape of the Earth, they also managed an amazingly accurate calculation of its size using trigonometry.
http//www.timelinescience.org/resource/students/flat/flat.htm
Around 150 AD, Claudius Ptolemy, a Greek geographer, mathematician, and astronomer, compiled an encyclopedia of the ancient world from the archives of a legendary library in Alexandria, Egypt. His eight-volume Geography included extensive maps of the known world, all based on a curved globe.
http//www.gma.org/space1/nav_map.html
-
The ancient Egyptians created the oldest recorded calendar.
Salams
Looks like you are right. Greeks knew that the earth is a sphere in 140 AD.
I am not sure if they also knew that it is the earth that is revolving around the Sun.
I am wondering what was the prevailing belief among arabs regarding this subject.
http//www.gma.org/space1/nav_map.html
Peace Oracle
The Greeks did not know the Earth was revolving around the Sun. The Ptolemaic Universe was a geocentric one, meaning all celestial bodies revolved around the Earth.
It was not until the 15th century that Copernicus espoused the heliocentric view, meaning the planets revolved around the Sun.
I'm not sure how relevant it is but what I find striking is the verse's reference to the Earth being like an egg or an imperfect sphere. Maybe Ahmed can help out with the etymology of the word "Dahaha" but does it have to refer to the Earth itself or can it refer to the Earth's movement (Ahmed said "Dahaha" was a verb, not a noun). The reason I bring this up is because it wasn't until the 16th century that Johannes Kepler found that the Earth revolves around the Sun in an elliptical (i.e. egg-shaped, imperfect circle) orbit rather than a perfect circular one.
This was groundbreaking for science; everyone before him thought the orbits were perfect circles. He showed they were imperfect circles. In fact, this became his famous "First Law of Planetary Motion."
-
I'm not sure how relevant it is but what I find striking is the verse's reference to the Earth being like an egg or an imperfect sphere.
Salams
Yes I agree. Even if people at that time knew that the earth is a sphere, they did not know that it is an imperfect sphere.
Quran alluding the fact that earth (or its orbit) is not a perfect circle is really amazing. Miracles like these strengthen my belief.
-
I'm not sure how relevant it is but what I find striking is the verse's reference to the Earth being like an egg or an imperfect sphere. Maybe Ahmed can help out with the etymology of the word "Dahaha" but does it have to refer to the Earth itself or can it refer to the Earth's movement (Ahmed said "Dahaha" was a verb, not a noun). The reason I bring this up is because it wasn't until the 16th century that Johannes Kepler found that the Earth revolves around the Sun in an elliptical (i.e. egg-shaped, imperfect circle) orbit rather than a perfect circular one.
This was groundbreaking for science; everyone before him thought the orbits were perfect circles. He showed they were imperfect circles. In fact, this became his famous "First Law of Planetary Motion."
Hello mate
it is possible that the verb dahaha may mean making the earth moves in an elliptical orbit, because as i said Daha common use isto make anything in the shape of an imprfect circle
however i see it clearly "the sound of the arabic words on my eyes" that the verse means the earth itself is an imperfect circle
all in all the verse is a clear miracle, because regardless it is about the earth or its orbit, the info was not known 1400 years ago
Allah knows best
-
Peace OracleMir,
you wrote
I have read at various places on the net that Quran was the first to annouce earth is not flat. Here is one example from islamicwell.com
"Shape of earth Quran 7930. Amazingly, the arabic term is dahaba (whose root refers to egg shaped) is used for the earth.
Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha
079030
Khan- And after that He spread the earth;
Maulana- And the earth, He cast it after that.
Pickthal- And after that He spread the earth,
Sarwar- After this, He spread out the earth,
Shakir- And the earth, He expanded it after that.
Sherali- And the earth, along with it, HE has spread forth.
Yusufali- And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
Arberry- and the earth-after that He spread it out,
Palmer- and the earth after that He did stretch out.
Rodwell- And afterwards stretched forth the earth, -
Sale- After his he stretched out the earth,-- - spread out , level off , level
http//dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidic_2.asp?Sub=%cf%f3%cd%f3%c7%e5%f3%c7now comes the man who can see what no man has seen before.
Rashad-He made the earth egg-shaped.peace.
-
Peace brother Agentxxx
I don?t agree bro that the word Dahaha means ?Spread out?, the Quran was clear in using the common Arabic words for spreading out ?Madadnah? & ?Sotihat?, both words are commonly used in the Arabic world to mean spread out
YUSUFALI And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.
PICKTHAL And the earth have We spread out, and placed therein firm hills, and caused each seemly thing to grow therein.
SHAKIR And the earth-- We have spread it forth and made in it firm mountains and caused to grow in it of every suitable thing
(19)
YUSUFALI And at the Earth, how it is spread out?
PICKTHAL And the earth, how it is spread?
SHAKIR And the earth, how it is made a vast expanse?.
(20)
-> Yes, R K got it right and I accept it from him, despite I disagree with many of his non sense
-> It does not mean that all what Rashad said is wrong, in fact there are many things he said that is right as far as I believe, he must have done so, otherwise he would have no crowd
-> This is like the Quran alone attitude towards the sunni, i.e. whatever the sunni said is wrong
Which sure is not the case either
I hope you get this point bro, R K was a native Arabic speaker
Peace
-
Peace brother Ahmed,
I knew about it, and your quiz result confirms it bravo .
Bro you have a strong faith and I truly respect your strong belief. sadly my result suggest that I have 17% skepticism in me. ((These are the excerpts from tafseer ibn khatir.
Sahih Al-Bukhari records that when Ibn
Abbas was question about this matter, he said that the earth was created before heaven, and the earth was spread out only after the creation of the heaven. Several Tafsir scholars of old and recent times also said similarly, as we have elaborated on in the Tafsir of Surat An-Naziat (chapter 79). The result of that discussion is that the word DAHA (translated above as "SPREAD'') is mentioned and explained in Allah's statement,(And the earth, after that, HE SPREAD IT OUT. And brought forth therefrom its water and its pasture. And the mountains He has fixed firmly.) (7930-32)
Therefore, DAHA means that the earth's treasures were brought to its surface after finishing the job of creating whatever will reside on earth and heaven. When the earth became DAHA, the water burst out to its surface and the various types, colors, shapes and kinds of plants grew. The stars started rotating along with the planets that rotate around them. And Allah knows best.
AB-I hope you get this point bro, R K was a native Arabic speaker
bro these are native arabic speaker too
AL-JALALAN, one of Islam's premiere commentators, in his Tafsir, p. 509, states "In his phrase, `how it is spread', he denotes that the earth is flat.
All the scholars of Islamic law agree that the earth is flat. It is not round as physicists claim." (Cited in Behind the Veil, p. 175)
Al Baidawi concurs
"'Stretched out the earth' means it was flattened in width and length so that feet may be steady on it and animals may roll on it." (AbdallahAbd al-Fadi, Is the Quran Infallible? , p.19)The earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment." Yousef M. Ibrahim, "Muslim Edicts take on New Force", The New York Times, February 12, 1995, p. A-14.
``In 1993, the supreme religious authority of Saudi Arabia, Sheik Abdel-Aziz ibn Baaz, issued a edict, or fatwah, declaring that the world is flat. Anyone of the round persuasion does not believe in God and should be punished.''
".. The Sheikh (Abdul Aziz Ibn Baz) authored ... a book in Arabic entitled Jiryan Al-Shams Wa Al-Qammar Wa-Sukoon Al-Arz. This translates into Motion of the Sun and Moon, and Stationarity of the Earth... In an earlier book, he had threatened dissenters with the dire fatwa or takfir (disbelief), but did not repeat the threat in the newer version."
brickwall
Peace.
-
Thank you brother Agentxxx
don't take that test serious man, if you know what most religions and concepts are , then you can control the result
take care man
-
Daha a verb to make something into a ball that looks like an egg, i.e. it is not a perfect ball
peaceSalams Ahmed
Back to "egg" discussion...
I am trying to find references on the internet that would verify that daha (verb) means making something into egg shaped. Perhaps you can help me.
I found this on a website
"The Arabic word "dahaha" is derived from the root word "dahya" which literally means "egg"."
Here is the problem. The online English to Arabic dictionaries tell me that translation of word "egg" into Arabic is bayda (instead of "dahya")
Questions for you
1- Does "dahya" really means egg? Can you give me any reference where this word is used as egg.
2- If (1) is true then, do you think "daha" is derived from "dahya"?Thanks
-
Daha a verb to make something into a ball that looks like an egg, i.e. it is not a perfect ball
peaceSalams Ahmed
Back to "egg" discussion...
I am trying to find references on the internet that would verify that daha (verb) means making something into egg shaped. Perhaps you can help me.
I found this on a website
"The Arabic word "dahaha" is derived from the root word "dahya" which literally means "egg"."
Here is the problem. The online English to Arabic dictionaries tell me that translation of word "egg" into Arabic is bayda (instead of "dahya")
Questions for you
1- Does "dahya" really means egg? Can you give me any reference where this word is used as egg.
2- If (1) is true then, do you think "daha" is derived from "dahya"?Thanks
Peace mate
you are right Baida is the word for an egg, but daha does not mean an egg as far as i know, and if you check my first comment i stated that it is not commonly known as an ostritch egg, but what is common that it is a verb and it is used to mould somthing into a non perfect ball
i live in ausralia mate and i have no access to arabic liberaries but i will contact a few friends in egypt and ask them to send me someting or direct me to any arabic web site that discuss the issue
for the second question, i don't know man but as far as i remember that when i was a child we were collecting the seeds of the appricott fruit to play with and i think we were calling the game we play Dahya, but it sounded to me as name of a game nothing more
Peace
-
Hello OracleMir
I contacted my freind that read this verse with me about 20 years ago and he suggested a few online arabic to arabic dictionaries but the font does not seem to veiw at all and could not read one letter, however if you look at the link posted by another brother in this thread which is a pdf file from a dictionery with all the possible meanings for daha, you will read that when you you say Dahaha "the word is written in arabic but the explanatoin is in english", it means he compressed her, so it sounds to me as the earth was compressed at the poles by Allah
peace
-
Peace be upon you Cavemandoctor,
This was groundbreaking for science; everyone before him thought the orbits were perfect circles. He showed they were imperfect circles. In fact, this became his famous "First Law of Planetary Motion."
You have to be careful with His-story. Just like the "groundbreaking" discovery of America my Columbus. It takes great mathematics and knowledge to create a calendar.
-
Hello OracleMir
I contacted my freind that read this verse with me about 20 years ago and he suggested a few online arabic to arabic dictionaries but the font does not seem to veiw at all and could not read one letter, however if you look at the link posted by another brother in this thread which is a pdf file from a dictionery with all the possible meanings for daha, you will read that when you you say Dahaha "the word is written in arabic but the explanatoin is in english", it means he compressed her, so it sounds to me as the earth was compressed at the poles by Allah
peace
Thanks brother, for going out of your way and for all efforts!
-
Peace all,
According to the link provided by brother Wakas, in Lane Lexicon the following are some of the definitions given for "daha" and derivatives
DAHA spread, spread out, spread forth, EXPANDED, extended
Usage God made the earth wide or ample; also said of an ostrich, he expanded or made wide with his foot or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs, making cavities in the ground like those of bellies; said of a man, he spread, and made plain, even, or smooth; also, he threw or cast, and impelled, PROPELLED, or REMOVED FROM ITS PLACE, a stone with his hand;
DAHAHA He COMPRESSED her
DAHA AL-BATN The belly was or became large and hanging down; it became SWOLLEN or INFLATED, or big, and hung down, by reason of fatness or disease.
INDAHA it (belly) became wide or DISTENDED.
The meanings in relation to earth in the qur'aan could be that it was made swollen, inflated, or distended, and also could be that the earth was propelled, removed from its place, like a stone thrown by the hand. So "daha" in relation to earth could be referring either to the shape of the earth (like that of a distended, swollen, inflated belly, hung down, or like that of the cavities in ground, shaped like bellies, dug by ostriches to lay their eggs, both of which imply it not being a perfect circle) or it could be referring to its elliptical orbit (like the trajectory of a stone propelled by throwing it by one's hand).