Destiny of those praying 5x towards the cube?
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Peace brother Ahmed, all,
I have started a new thread to discuss if "al-masjid al-haram" is a physical building according to the qur'aan and my article contains the replies to the qur'aanic evidence brought forth by brother Ahmed. The thread is at the following link
Is "al-masjid al-haram" a physical building ?"
Thank you bro, i will have a look at it later today
cheers
Peace tanveermd
I read it but i won't respond to it yet, in fact here is a new idea for the both of us
if you really want to debate this issue (possibly others) seriously then i can debate it with you but only if we have a healthy debate enviroment, this is not something we will leave to our emotiopns during the debate rather it has to be forced on us, and the only way to do it is to have judges and rules
you choose two judges and i choose two, then me, you and the judges create the rules that will govern the debate, these rules will be very strict and all must obey it
if you initially agree, then nominate your two judges, and i will nominate mine, then if the judges agree to join us we can move to the next step which will be the rules and after everyone involved is happy with the rules we can start debating al masjid al haram
other than that bro i have no time to waste while the both of us insisting on their stands
cheers
Salam Ahmed,
I think we do not need a debate as its clear that masjid-al-haram is not a structure. Even if its a structure than it should be arround the cube as according to you. Well historically it wasn't. So I think if you want to debate you have to convince us that 1. it was there. 2.why is it haram. 3 signs of Abrahem in masjid-al-haram? 4. Do we have to face the cube or the structure around the cube? 5. Why spin anti-clockwise? 6. What is the black stone? 7. Any manetion of the place in Jewish or Christian scriptures? 8. Does the foot-prints belong to Abrahim? 9. Why would Abrahim leave his wife in the desert? 10. What signs do we have of the footprint?
You can initiate a debate if you can convince us about this.
Remember 1736 And do not uphold what you have no knowledge of. For the hearing, eyesight, and mind, all these you are responsible for.
Peace -
Salam Ahmed,
I think we do not need a debate as its clear that masjid-al-haram is not a structure. Even if its a structure than it should be arround the cube as according to you. Well historically it wasn't. So I think if you want to debate you have to convince us that 1. it was there. 2.why is it haram. 3 signs of Abrahem in masjid-al-haram? 4. Do we have to face the cube of the structure around the cube? 5. Why spin anti-clockwise? 6. What is the black stone? 7. Any manetion of the place in Jewish or Christian scriptures? 8. Are the foot-prints belong to Abrahim? 9. Why would Abrahim leave his wife in the desert? You can initiate a debate if you can convince us about this.
Peace
Salam Bmbmm
as I stated many times man, I'm not challenging others in what they believe in, but if it affect a major point in the faith then I will only post my comments to the public to read as a counter action, nothing more really,
now for me to get into a serious and constructive debate, I can only do it with judges and rules in place, if you would like to do it with me regarding al masjid al haram, then i will appreciate that you accept these fair and logical condition then both of us take the stand and get it going, nominating the judges and making the rules with them, you have to know I have to accept your judges and you have to accept mine
other than this man, we can leave it at this, you believe in what you want to believe in, the same right to me, as well you post what you post and I do the same and life goes on
now all the question you raised regarding al masjid ak haram can be taken included in your proposition to the judges
let me know
Salam
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Salam Ahmed,
I think a debate is waste of time and is not necessary here. We will wait until the questions are answered either by you or anyone on the forum.
Peace
Fine bro, i may make a comment to the public about these questions but only when i have time
cheers
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as I stated many times man, I'm not challenging others in what they believe in, but if it affect a major point in the faith then I will only post my comments to the public to read as a counter action, nothing more really,
now for me to get into a serious and constructive debate, I can only do it with judges and rules in place, if you would like to do it with me regarding al masjid al haram, then i will appreciate that you accept these fair and logical condition then both of us take the stand and get it going, nominating the judges and making the rules with them, you have to know I have to accept your judges and you have to accept mine
other than this man, we can leave it at this, you believe in what you want to believe in, the same right to me, as well you post what you post and I do the same and life goes on
now all the question you raised regarding al masjid ak haram can be taken included in your proposition to the judges
let me know
Yep, here again, Ahmed demonstrates his regurgitations, grunts and dislodged comments possessing no substance, when his grounds starts quivering. A tactic well established in his books. What are rules, logical conditions and ethical discussions seems out of reach, yet boast about them.
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Yep, here again, Ahmed demonstrates his regurgitations, grunts and dislodged comments possessing no substance, when his grounds starts quivering. A tactic well established in his books. What are rules, logical conditions and ethical discussions seems out of reach, yet boast about them.
lol
you do it well too man, but I don't run away, my offer stands to you and to whoever but under the conditions I stated and sure it sounds fair , i don't consider myself in a school here to give religious lessons, it is called debateing other than that i just keep posting and that is called authoring wink
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Salam Ahmed,
I think a debate is waste of time and is not necessary here. We will wait until the questions are answered either by you or anyone on the forum.
Peace
Fine bro, i may make a comment to the public about these questions but only when i have time
cheers
Salam,
We will wait with out fingers crossed !
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Salam Ahmed,
I think a debate is waste of time and is not necessary here. We will wait until the questions are answered either by you or anyone on the forum.
Peace
Fine bro, i may make a comment to the public about these questions but only when i have time
cheers
Salam,
We will wait with out fingers crossed !
Salam
lol
ok, as if i'm the one who will refute it, well i will only give an opinion, but not sure when as i'm going away for a few days during easter holiday, but i'm also keeping my finger crossed that i will give an opinion based on the Quran only
cheers
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Salam Ahmed,
I think a debate is waste of time and is not necessary here. We will wait until the questions are answered either by you or anyone on the forum.
Peace
Fine bro, i may make a comment to the public about these questions but only when i have time
cheers
Salam,
We will wait with out fingers crossed !
Salam
lol
ok, as if i'm the one who will refute it, well i will only give an opinion, but not sure when as i'm going away for a few days during easter holiday, but i'm also keeping my finger crossed that i will give an opinion based on the Quran only
cheers
If everything you gona based on the Quran its fine as far as it in convencing to us here. If not, I suggest you ask the people who knows as it is suggested in the Quran. Why would God command you to ask the people who know if everything as according to you can be answered from the quran? To begin with, I can assure you that the blackstone is not in the Quran, If you take it as something sacred/holy.
Cheers
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Peace bmbmm. You made a very good point doc. If the quran says; ' so ask the people of the reminder if you dont know'.(16;43.) then its obviously asking you to go to people of knowledge/previous books,not just the the quran.(otherwise it would say ask the prophet or ask the people who know the quran?) Dont forget knowledge can be obtained outside the quran as well.
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Peace bmbmm. You made a very good point doc. If the quran says; ' so ask the people of the reminder if you dont know'.(16;43.) then its obviously asking you to go to people of knowledge/previous books,not just the the quran.(otherwise it would say ask the prophet or ask the people who know the quran?) Dont forget knowledge can be obtained outside the quran as well.
Salam eq. How is your bacha? Mine is 3 months old and ultrasound show it kicking.
Thats the problem with lots of people. They have restricted themselves of the knowledge and frozen themselves in the past by rituals/worships etc.
Peace
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Peace bmbmm. My boy is crawling now,and my girl is spelling words and writing now. D D D
Its exciting seeing the scan isnt it? Wait till the last few months when you can see the kicks bulge the stomach. ! )
How is your wife? Hope you guys have a happy time through the pregnancy.
Come down to leeds when you get the chance.
Please witness the birth...Thats a great experience. Your respect for women will go up 1000% after the pregnancy.
Take care and pbuh. wink D
Ps;my brothers wife is pregnant again.(about 5 months.) -
Peace bmbmm. Yes,we should be open-minded and verify knowledge from many sources,not just knowledge from the past.
Ps;this is my post number 666. shock shock shock wink -
If everything you gona based on the Quran its fine
haven't you realize this yet?
let me confirm this again, i consider the Quran the only compelling evidence a human can come up with, all these archlogical thingy or whatever you wanna call it means nothing to me, because anything that is man made or caused by humans, you can not gurrantee that it happend 100% beyond any dounbt that it was contaminated by other humans, exactly like the man made hadith
therefore, the belief in Allah and His Quran 100% is the basis of any comment i make, i.e. I assume the ones who read it already submitted to this concrete fact, unless I'm discussing the existance of Allah or the valdity of the Quran, which things i don't discuss any more unless there is a big chllenge in hand and i'm in the mode to do it, my mode depends on many things, the most imprtant one of them is whom I'm discussing it with, in here i hardly know anyone to be honest, and i still consider my parents advice when i was a child "Not to talk openly to strangers"
this advice means in adulthood is this, do not debate strangers unless there are rules and judges lol
as far as it in convencing to us here.
but this is relative or do you think i must come up with something that suits everyone?
you are s scientist, right?, if yes, then i'm sure you know relativity very well
i.e. what is convincing to me may not be convincing to you and vice versa, i huess it is chemical reactions at the end and i'm sure the chemicals reactions in our bodies can't be the same
If not,
do you mean if not convincing?
well we may need another discussion after it but we only discuss how convincing it was
I suggest you ask the people who knows as it is suggested in the Quran.
and whom these people exatly?
you and Ayman, or Ibn Kathir and Al Qurtoby?
ok, let me choose
I chose Ibn Kathir and Al Qurtoby, would that be ok with you?, if yes, then i will see what they said and i will include it in my comment with Allah's will
Why would God command you to ask the people who know if everything as according to you can be answered from the quran?
I don't deny asking others, but the well known and established ones with knowledge, not you and Ayman that i hardly know, no disrepsect though
To begin with, I can assure you that the blackstone is not in the Quran, If you take it as something sacred/holy.
I will see and will include it in my comment with Allah's will
Cheers
cheers
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Peace bmbmm. You made a very good point doc. If the quran says; ' so ask the people of the reminder if you dont know'.(16;43.) then its obviously asking you to go to people of knowledge/previous books,not just the the quran.(otherwise it would say ask the prophet or ask the people who know the quran?) Dont forget knowledge can be obtained outside the quran as well.
"az zikr/the reminder" is an attribute of the Koran . so "ahluz zikr/people of the reminder" is refering to the people of the Koran , not to the people of the "previous" books .
peace.
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Peace bmbmm. You made a very good point doc. If the quran says; ' so ask the people of the reminder if you dont know'.(16;43.) then its obviously asking you to go to people of knowledge/previous books,not just the the quran.(otherwise it would say ask the prophet or ask the people who know the quran?) Dont forget knowledge can be obtained outside the quran as well.
"az zikr/the reminder" is an attribute of the Koran . so "ahluz zikr/people of the reminder" is refering to the people of the Koran , not to the people of the "previous" books .
peace.
Salam Brother,
I thought it means to ask people with knowledge. From what you are saying (people of the Quran) we are restricting ourselves and furthermore it does not help much as "what really are people of the Quran"? For instance, if I have something to ask about the details an astronomical event I will ask NASA scientists, as it really does not matter, and I don't think they have to be people of the Quran. Also if its related to genomic analysis of a fly I will consult UC Berkley as they sequenced it. I think we have to move away from the primitive understanding of the Arabic words by the Arabs from the past. Please correct me if I am wrong.
If az zikr is taken as general knowledge (rather than the Quran) it make perfect sense.
I think because of a misunderstanding of this now we have Islamic Scholars (who are these ???). What happen is rather than from a Universal/university concept building, due to the understanding of the word as people of the Quran we have frozen ourselves back in time. As a result useless Islamic madrasas/schools/scholars are produced nowadays. Lets put the word az zikr back to its context.
Please check my thread "The Myth of Islamic Scholarship" )
Peace
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salam bro .
Salam Brother,
I thought it means to ask people with knowledge. From what you are saying (people of the Quran) we are restricting ourselves and furthermore it does not help much as "what really are people of the Quran"? For instance, if I have something to ask about the details an astronomical event I will ask NASA scientists, as it really does not matter, and I don't think they have to be people of the Quran. Also if its related to genomic analysis of a fly I will consult UC Berkley as they sequenced it. I think we have to move away from the primitive understanding of the Arabic words by the Arabs from the past. Please correct me if I am wrong.
if u want to ask about the above information , u will ask the appropriate people/scientists . but if u want to ask about the information in context of 1643 , u will ask the people who posses the Remembrance/Reminder(Koran) . who will support their answers with the verses of the Koran .
If az zikr is taken as general knowledge (rather than the Quran) it make perfect sense.
"az zikr"/THE reminder is refering to a SPECEFIC reminder , NOT GENERAL reminder .
Lets put the word az zikr back to its context.
taking "THE reminder" it as GENERAL knowledge would be putting it out of context .
151 A.L.R., these are the signs of the Book, and a clear Quran.
156 And they said "O you upon whom the Reminder has been sent down, you are crazy."
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.381 Suaad, and the Quran that contains the Reminder.
in the above verses , we can see that "az zikr" is refering to the Koran .
salam.
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151 A.L.R., these are the signs of the Book, and a clear Quran.
...
156 And they said "O you upon whom the Reminder has been sent down, you are crazy."
...
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.381 Suaad, and the Quran that contains the Reminder.
in the above verses , we can see that "az zikr" is refering to the Koran .
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151 A.L.R., these are the signs of the Book, and a clear Quran.
...
156 And they said "O you upon whom the Reminder has been sent down, you are crazy."
...
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.381 Suaad, and the Quran that contains the Reminder.
in the above verses , we can see that "az zikr" is refering to the Koran .
no question about it indeed
Al Quran is known as
- Al Kitab
- Kitab
- Al Zikr
- Zikr
- Sohof
- Al Furqan
- Furqan
that is what i managed to remember so far
peace