Reincarnation
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Don't believe in it either.
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Salam,
Thank you all for giving your votes. Thanks dear Zein. I can't be away for long you know!
For me now "Yes" makes some sense. When I look into the ayat that speaks about death... I see that some of them use other words to refer to the "end".. words like "Qada na7bahu", "Tuwufeya" such words that give a meaning of Completion.
What I mean to say is that when a person passes away that does not necessarily mean that he/she has completed their course on earth. He/she may still have more time (something like jail/sentence or test time) on earth depending on the amount of his/her "karmic debt".
I see people who are so wise in spite of their young age! I would wonder how and when did they get that? The people who are born in poverty,, people who are born with incurable illnesses...why?
It does not matter whether we remember our past lives or not..as that is not the main issue. The important thing is to know that if we are being under some unexpected difficulties that this is maybe because there is a lesson that we failed to learn in a previous time and that is why we have not qualify to heaven.. so Allah, because Allah is Ra7eem, is giving us yet another chance to learn the lesson and also to become more accepting and appreciative of whatever comes our way...once we reach that level then the gate of Heaven is wide open but not before that.. Those who are given so many chances yet fail to learn and appreciate over and over again... they will have to go from one life cycle to another, locked in this world. That is the barrier. They will never have a rest. They would wish to do it right next time but then they won't,, they will only get worse (the bad guys I mean)... the barrier is to heaven, not to earth..
When Adam did wrong he was sent to earth (given a whole new life) and he would be in that mode till he gets it!
Now who of us is born with a brand new soul and would pass the test from the first time, and who is born with an old, returning soul? Is conception the only time when a soul would be created/entered or can souls switch among the living bodies at any age?Just my latest thoughts... I need to hear from you...
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Salam,
Thank you all for giving your votes. Thanks dear Zein. I can't be away for long you know!
For me now "Yes" makes some sense. When I look into the ayat that speaks about death... I see that some of them use other words to refer to the "end".. words like "Qada na7bahu", "Tuwufeya" such words that give a meaning of Completion.
What I mean to say is that when a person passes away that does not necessarily mean that he/she has completed their course on earth. He/she may still have more time (something like jail/sentence or test time) on earth depending on the amount of his/her "karmic debt".
I see people who are so wise in spite of their young age! I would wonder how and when did they get that? The people who are born in poverty,, people who are born with incurable illnesses...why?
It does not matter whether we remember our past lives or not..as that is not the main issue. The important thing is to know that if we are being under some unexpected difficulties that this is maybe because there is a lesson that we failed to learn in a previous time and that is why we have not qualify to heaven.. so Allah, because Allah is Ra7eem, is giving us yet another chance to learn the lesson and also to become more accepting and appreciative of whatever comes our way...once we reach that level then the gate of Heaven is wide open but not before that.. Those who are given so many chances yet fail to learn and appreciate over and over again... they will have to go from one life cycle to another, locked in this world. That is the barrier. They will never have a rest. They would wish to do it right next time but then they won't,, they will only get worse (the bad guys I mean)... the barrier is to heaven, not to earth..
When Adam did wrong he was sent to earth (given a whole new life) and he would be in that mode till he gets it!
Now who of us is born with a brand new soul and would pass the test from the first time, and who is born with an old, returning soul? Is conception the only time when a soul would be created/entered or can souls switch among the living bodies at any age?Just my latest thoughts... I need to hear from you...
Peace Taj
Not sure if I managed to understand your last comment well, i guess i can find out by raising a question, do you believe that some souls will come back in different bodies for another chance?
after you answer please, I will reply to your last comment in details
cheers
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Peace all,
i used not to "believe" but to have a strong sensation of reincarnation when still a kid.
When i first came to islam (around age 20) i rejected the idea, but since then my understanding has changed.
Things that happended in my life during the last few years made me go back to this believe and looking at the state of the earth roll it just makes more sens to me.
I do share the above expressed views of bm and sawtooth on the question and don't see an absolute contradiction between the possibility of reincarnation and the coranic verses cited above.
The ancient viewed the cycles of life of an individual as "one life" and this life can be ended as cited in 23.99-100 when we come to a point of no return...
And Taj - u always surprise me! )
elke
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Peace taj and all. I believe in reincarnation. The exact details i have yet to verify!! Many traditions,texts and peoples experiences are present,so we can learn from these. Some of the ideas of buddhism and hinduism make sense to me. However the 'karmic debt' idea i believe can be misused. Some people can use this idea to justify a 'caste' system or to justify poverty and suffering. Your idea about returning to life to 'get things right this time' ,and the righteous being rewarded with 'heaven' is one of the basic principles of buddhism. The cycle of rebirth is only broken when one reaches enlightenment or nirvana which is the aim of buddhism.
Personally i believe that all beings are eternal,but shift into different bodies or dimensions after death. my main question is do we retain our memories,knowledge and experiences after death? ...Otherwise we may have to learn from the start all over again!! Or do we retain our knowledge from one dimension,but have to learn/apply new specific knowledge to function in the new dimension? (i think the second option makes more sense,but i havent verified this topic yet.)
peace all. -
Peace,
Understanding re-incarnation as 'coming back to life as a different living being in this world', I answered no. This verse as well as 2399-100 seems to speak clearly against re-incarnation;
Or it(the soul) should say when it sees the punishment Were there only a returning for me, I should be of the doers of good.
I haven't ever seen any Quranic evidence for re-incarnation.
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I haven't ever seen any Quranic evidence for re-incarnation.
neither me and i'm reading it for over 25 years in its original language lol , it must be big quran secret indeed
but let's think basics for a moment, a baby is born knowing absolutely nothing, then lived till 60 years old, during these 60 years, that person learnt a lot, let's assume that perosn was Einestien for argument sake, then when he died, his very knowledgable soul started again from square one as another baby who knows nothing, very laughable indeed, and sure i can see the chain of knowledge in it lol lol
peace
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I haven't ever seen any Quranic evidence for re-incarnation.
neither me and i'm reading it for over 25 years in its original language lol , it must be big quran secret indeed
but let's think basics for a moment, a baby is born knowing absolutely nothing, then lived till 60 years old, during these 60 years, that person learnt a lot, let's assume that perosn was Einestien for argument sake, then when he died, his very knowledgable soul started again from square one as another baby who knows nothing, very laughable indeed, and sure i can see the chain of knowledge in it lol lol
Salam a bit of knowlwdge and a bit of bullshit you mixed here. When we die and are resurected the knowledge is there. The Soul does not start from square one.
Peace
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I haven't ever seen any Quranic evidence for re-incarnation.
neither me and i'm reading it for over 25 years in its original language lol , it must be big quran secret indeed
but let's think basics for a moment, a baby is born knowing absolutely nothing, then lived till 60 years old, during these 60 years, that person learnt a lot, let's assume that perosn was Einestien for argument sake, then when he died, his very knowledgable soul started again from square one as another baby who knows nothing, very laughable indeed, and sure i can see the chain of knowledge in it lol lol
Salam a bit of knowlwdge and a bit of bullshit you mixed here. When we die and are resurected the knowledge is there. The Soul does not start from square one.
Peace
well, not sure who is saying BS here mate, i guess it is you because my comment was for what sawtooth said about the continuity of knowledge through Reincarnation not through Resurrection
i never said anything about the Resurrection really, i guess the subject is about Reincarnation
do you understand the difference bro?
salam and good night
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I haven't ever seen any Quranic evidence for re-incarnation.
neither me and i'm reading it for over 25 years in its original language lol , it must be big quran secret indeed
but let's think basics for a moment, a baby is born knowing absolutely nothing, then lived till 60 years old, during these 60 years, that person learnt a lot, let's assume that perosn was Einestien for argument sake, then when he died, his very knowledgable soul started again from square one as another baby who knows nothing, very laughable indeed, and sure i can see the chain of knowledge in it lol lol
Salam a bit of knowlwdge and a bit of bullshit you mixed here. When we die and are resurected the knowledge is there. The Soul does not start from square one.
Peace
well, not sure who is saying BS here mate, i guess it is you because my comment was for what sawtooth said about the continuity of knowledge through Reincarnation not through Resurrection
i never said anything about the Resurrection really, i guess the subject is about Reincarnation
do you understand the difference bro?
salam and good night
Salam bro,
I do understand the difference. I look at them as one thing, e.g after resurrection.
Peace
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peace
When death comes to one of them, he says, "My Lord, send me back.
"I will then work righteousness in everything I left." Not true. This is a false claim that he makes. A barrier will separate his soul from this world until resurrection.
Thusly, when we die we all have a barrier that separates our souls from this world till THAT day.
I don't think this necessarily means no reincarnation. See how it says "I will then work rigtheousness in everything I left", meaning that the person who wants to come back would correct things he did wrong etc. Perhaps the barrier is a mental one... once we are reincarnated, there is a barrier between our new life and old life, so we can't remember the old life, and hence we can't fix the mistakes we did in the old life, though we can learn to improve all the time and not repeat the same mistakes if we continue growing.
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Peace be upon you all,
I believe in reicarnation, key word is BELIEVE. I believe that when one dies, they continue to exist with the same mental condition they left with, hopefully it will be a peaceful mindstate.
I believe the verses being used to reject it can be read as the person wanting to go back to the life they just left, but the answer is no, they will be going to a new life where they will be repaid just what they earned. There are many lessons of life to learn.
Some even claim they can see past lives through the tool of meditation, but I have not verified that personally.
Why does the God always say "Remember?"
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Peace TAJ and very interesting ideas,
I can see how the story of Adam relates to reincarnation. For me, however there's too many other things in quran that point to a different direction altogether. But that is not dismiss the theory of reincarnation altogether, since I've never given it a chance or thought before. BTW TAJ, watch - Defending Your Life (Albert Brooks) and tell me what you think. )
It does not matter whether we remember our past lives or not..as that is not the main issue. The important thing is to know that if we are being under some unexpected difficulties that this is maybe because there is a lesson that we failed to learn in a previous time and that is why we have not qualify to heaven.. so Allah, because Allah is Ra7eem, is giving us yet another chance to learn the lesson and also to become more accepting and appreciative of whatever comes our way...once we reach that level then the gate of Heaven is wide open but not before that.. Those who are given so many chances yet fail to learn and appreciate over and over again...
In terms of learning, getting 'second' (and third) chances, becoming appreciative, etc... I believe that's what we have right now. D What I mean is, in a 'regular' life span of lets say even 50 years... there's second chances everyday of that life, there's learning experiences everyday, there's a chance to grow and excel to whatever that person's capability is, in whatever situation life throws at him or her. Now whether we do learn/grow from it, is another issue. On the other hand, I think that our learning experiences are not limited to this plane of existence, and for that matter, the learning experiences available here, although a wide range and variety, have a certain limitation.Just because we die and get resurrected, doesn't mean we stop learning. idea
I'd like to hear more on your latest thoughts.
Peace
PS Does "2 lives and 2 deaths" hold any clues here?
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I haved made my post a new topic, to discuss it.
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Salam Ahmed, All,
I haven't ever seen any Quranic evidence for re-incarnation.
neither me and i'm reading it for over 25 years in its original language lol , it must be big quran secret indeed
I have been reading Al Quran for as long as you have too, and up till this moment I would still find things in it that would stop me in my tracks! I am sure that must have happened to you too. The way Al Quran to me is that it is full of secrets that are not revealed unless the reader is at a certain level of awareness, understanding and responsibility of how to handle the 3ilm* that is about to be revealed to him/her as such revelation is because either he or she was painstakingly, earnestly looking for answers or because Allah has decided to reveal that 3ilm to this particular person for a particular reason, a reason that could be unknown yet to that person! I am not saying that I have reached such level but because of the glimpse I would be sometimes given while reading, I feel maybe if I reach such level then the 3ilm that will be revealed to me will be more. And there is no limit to that 3ilm...the word 3ilm in the following ayah is in mu6laq (endless/limitless) grammer form 3ilma(114
20114 High above all is Allah, the King, the Truth! Be not in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to thee is completed, but say, "O my Lord! advance me in knowledge."*The word '3ilm' is translated as Knowledge. I don't know of any English word that can match 3ilm as it is not just knowlege or information. It is a much higher/bigger thing, something that is given as a gift and requires giving... It is something that is more like Wa7ey Wahey. When somebody teaches you something some knowledge or information or study... You will always owe that one person, be in debt to him/her (which is fine) and you may repay that person in the form of money even, unlike the 3ilm. It sets you free but requires that you do much more than just know. In the case of 3ilm, you have to give/spread that 3ilm to the world, in the very right way... and so you will be in great debt too in a much higher scale if you fail to do that, so 3ilm is something that one should be very careful with...and that is why it is given to certain people..
but let's think basics for a moment, a baby is born knowing absolutely nothing, then lived till 60 years old, during these 60 years, that person learnt a lot, let's assume that perosn was Einestien for argument sake, then when he died, his very knowledgable soul started again from square one as another baby who knows nothing, very laughable indeed, and sure i can see the chain of knowledge in it lol lol
If Einestien was to be reincarnated, he will be reincarnated in a whole new life with completely different challenges depending on how he did in his previous one, and God only knows how he did then, such calculations is Allah's.
Kyle almost read my mind here
I believe the verses being used to reject it can be read as the person wanting to go back to the life they just left, but the answer is no, they will be going to a new life where they will be repaid just what they earned. There are many lessons of life to learn.I may add that at a particular point, that person (Einestien in your example) would have to realize that his present life explains his previous one, and even his future one depending on his actions in the present one..This realization makes the present life easier to live and will push us to do much better, if not to go straight to Heaven, at least for the hope of having a better future life!
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Salam Zein, All,
Peace TAJ and very interesting ideas,
I can see how the story of Adam relates to reincarnation. For me, however there's too many other things in quran that point to a different direction altogether. But that is not dismiss the theory of reincarnation altogether, since I've never given it a chance or thought before.
Me too.. It seems that there is a "vito" against this issue among main stream muslims like it is some sort of cult, and so our minds have a mental barrier. So if we go over some clues in Quran, we would not even notice. Few years ago, I was reading Al Quran all the time finishing it from cover to cover in few days and then start over.. and I remember that this topic was "popping up" through the ayat, forcing me to pause and take another look. I talked with a mentor and he was not only very agreeable but told me that Al Quran supports this. But since the topic was/is considered a cult thing, I was not encouraged to go further, especially when I think "ok when I die,, I don't care what happens.."
BTW TAJ, watch - Defending Your Life (Albert Brooks) and tell me what you think. )
http//www.imdb.com/title/tt0101698/
I will order it for sure! But is Albert Brooks still alive!?It does not matter whether we remember our past lives or not..as that is not the main issue. The important thing is to know that if we are being under some unexpected difficulties that this is maybe because there is a lesson that we failed to learn in a previous time and that is why we have not qualify to heaven.. so Allah, because Allah is Ra7eem, is giving us yet another chance to learn the lesson and also to become more accepting and appreciative of whatever comes our way...once we reach that level then the gate of Heaven is wide open but not before that.. Those who are given so many chances yet fail to learn and appreciate over and over again...
In terms of learning, getting 'second' (and third) chances, becoming appreciative, etc... I believe that's what we have right now. D What I mean is, in a 'regular' life span of lets say even 50 years... there's second chances everyday of that life, there's learning experiences everyday, there's a chance to grow and excel to whatever that person's capability is, in whatever situation life throws at him or her. Now whether we do learn/grow from it, is another issue. On the other hand, I think that our learning experiences are not limited to this plane of existence, and for that matter, the learning experiences available here, although a wide range and variety, have a certain limitation.Just because we die and get resurrected, doesn't mean we stop learning. idea
I'd like to hear more on your latest thoughts.
Peace
PS Does "2 lives and 2 deaths" hold any clues here?
There are things that one cannot fix in one life time, even though one has learned the lesson and even if one repents.. Adam did repent and to show that Allah has accepted his and her repentence,, Allah offered them another life, albeit a rough one.. filled with challenges and much more "dos and don'ts" as a way to teach them a good lesson and in the hope that they may do better this harder time,,
I don't see resurrection as reincarnation.. Our chances to improve ourselves, to learn and to do anything at all ends with resurrection, unlike reincarnation. Resurrection will take place with the end of life on earth.. when the clock of our moon and sun stops. Then those who have been given thousnad of chances yet would get worse, will only deserve hell..2 lives and 2 deaths is one big clue..
I need to go back to Quran...
Thanx Zein...
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Peace TAJ,
There are things that one cannot fix in one life time, even though one has learned the lesson and even if one repents..
I'm still convinced that we get ample chances especially if we get a "full" life span. We have to remember that the God does not burden us with situations heavier than we can bear. And also I believe that we're not asked for too much. We're here to learn, do some tests and get multiple chances to pass everyday. It's not a requisite to get a Phd or reach enlightenment or any other high worldly or spiritual level... just to be believing and do good. However we try hard to go against our natural peacful state to do otherwise. Anyway, all this doesn't dismiss reincarnation as I said earlier, but I feel that our time here is sufficient for any 'corrections' in our life. Remember, God is the Forgiver, Merciful. DBTW TAJ, watch - Defending Your Life (Albert Brooks) and tell me what you think.
http//www.imdb.com/title/tt0101698/
I will order it for sure! But is Albert Brooks still alive!?
lol Yes, he still is! Unless that's another person reincarnated as Albert Brooks in a new comedy - Looking for Comedy in the Muslim World (2005) Oh, and Meryl Streep still lives too... as far as I know. wink
Just a side note, Defending your life is one of my all-time favourites! Don't forget to put in your review in the movie thread.Peace
Peace