Reincarnation
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what part of "us" is eternal?
Everyone's renewed nafs. With the resurrection it is renewed like a passport, whose term has expired. Now it is held responsible for its past deeds (817), but deprived of the formerly bestowed right to make choices and corrections as a student sitting for a test (3650). God has lifted from it its veil now; as a result sharp is its sight (5022) to the extent that its hands and legs stand witness against itself (3665).
And what is the Qur'anic term for "vitality"?
Haayy (3670). Vitality and awareness coexist during one?s waking hours, but awareness is taken away temporarily at sleep; then one has only vitality by itself (3942).
God has promised eternal life. Therefore, some aspect of us must be eternal/immortal. How do you explain this?
This world is temporary, and we live mortal lives in it; which shows that immortality counts only in the afterlife (22101-102). However, the word haleduun may have a different meaning than eternal in terms of one?s stay in the hell because its dwellers will be transferrred to heaven after they pay for their past sins or if God pardons them .
Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay -
Peace Hassan,
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I don't mean to split hairs but I do feel this is important enough to be precise...
Everyone's renewed nafs. With the resurrection it is renewed like a passport, whose term has expired.
Following your example of a passport, we must then assume that one is not issued a new nafs, but more succinctly, the same nafs is given this renewal, and hence, the "pass" into eternity. Agreed?
Vitality and awareness coexist during one?s waking hours, but awareness is taken away temporarily at sleep; then one has only vitality by itself
What of those who remember their dreams, or become conscious during dreams and make decisions within those dreams? Does this not count as awareness?
This world is temporary, and we live mortal lives in it; which shows that immortality counts only in the afterlife
Of course, but it is immortality nonetheless.
the word haleduun may have a different meaning than eternal in terms of one?s stay in the hell because its dwellers will be transferrred to heaven after they pay for their past sins or if God pardons them .
I was not aware of this. Could you please quote the ayah in support of your position.
Thanks for your patience.
Peace,
Tay -
Salam Ahmed,
Sure, Ahmed.
The two words areSalam Taj
That is what I expected that the difference is Tashkil only and the letters are the same
you can't actually use tashkil in indvidual words, as the tashkil is part of the whole sentence and context but i can imagine what sentences and contexts these two identical words mean in each
the first one prnounced as "mayt" means "Dead"
the second one prnounced "mayyat" also means "Dead"
Salam
Do you think that the difference in the Tashkeel does not affect the meaning even though the letters are the same?
pronounced Mayt means dead as in corpse, compeletely lifeless.
pronounced Mayyit means that the death is written on the person. Like you and I are Mayyitoon even though I am writing this now and you are reading it. We are Mayyitoon (La Ma7aalah= can't get away from death). Death is written on us, so we are Mayyitoon. We are going to taste death. Another meaning for Mayyit is to be in the state of dying, to be struggling with death but there is life in the body still.
So our bodies will die and our Nafses will be held, of course, sooner or later, regardless of the type of journey, as there an 'Ajalin Musaman'= determined timing.
The Ruh will be blown out of us the same way it was blown inside us. But will the Ruh go back to Allah or will it be blown inside another body? The same question about the Nafs, since we are created from ONE Nafs? -
Salam Hassan,
The word 'Be' is exclusive for Easa in as Easa is a word from Allah. That is said about Easa in other ayat in Quran. The similar thing between Adam and Easa is that both were created from dust. Easa is as human as Adam and both were fatherless. That is the point, I suppose, from .
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Salam Ahmed,
Sure, Ahmed.
The two words areSalam Taj
That is what I expected that the difference is Tashkil only and the letters are the same
you can't actually use tashkil in indvidual words, as the tashkil is part of the whole sentence and context but i can imagine what sentences and contexts these two identical words mean in each
the first one prnounced as "mayt" means "Dead"
the second one prnounced "mayyat" also means "Dead"
Salam
Do you think that the difference in the Tashkeel does not affect the meaning even though the letters are the same?
Salam Taj
Yes in most cases if not all the Tashkil has no effect on the meaning, in fact after the meaning is known from the context the tashkil can be added, but not before the meaning is worked out from the context
pronounced Mayt means dead as in corpse, compeletely lifeless.
it means dead, regardless it is a corpse or not, corpse means in Arabic ?Jotha?
pronounced Mayyit means that the death is written on the person.
not at all, what you said needs and arabic sentence to express what you said not just the words Mayyit
Mayyit also meand dead and can apply to anything even a tree
Like you and I are Mayyitoon even though I am writing this now and you are reading it. We are Mayyitoon (La Ma7aalah= can't get away from death). Death is written on us, so we are Mayyitoon. We are going to taste death. Another meaning for Mayyit is to be in the state of dying, to be struggling with death but there is life in the body still.
sorry bro, there is no such thing in Arabic
So our bodies will die and our Nafses will be held, of course, sooner or later, regardless of the type of journey, as there an 'Ajalin Musaman'= determined timing.
not sure what you are trying to say bro, are you trying to confirm reincarnation using the Quran?
The Ruh will be blown out of us the same way it was blown inside us. But will the Ruh go back to Allah or will it be blown inside another body?
sure but it will be blown back into the same body ?Nofikha Fi Al Sor? not in another body, Allah never said as such neither there is any indication that it can be remotely the case
The same question about the Nafs, since we are created from ONE Nafs?
well being created from one nafs does not mean that there is one nafs really, because my son is coming from me and my wife and each one of us has one nafs
I can see that you are trying to prove reincarnation using the Quran, fine bro but I?m sure you will not be able to because Allah does not play games with us
Peace mate
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Salam Ahmed,
The meanings I wrote for Mayt and Mayyit are known to anyone who knows good enough of Arabic.
I suggest that you speak to an Arabic language professor as well as an Islamic Studies 3allamah before you rush into judgment.
The following is the explanation of Al Qurdubiy" " . " " ; . , ; . , . , ; . " " . ; . . . , . ;
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Just remember, Ahmed, that the Ayah is talking to Muhammad (pbuh) basically, and he was alive upon receiving this ayah, wasn't he!?
Not to mention that the ayah is speaking to us all, and we are fully alive when we are reading !
The Ayah says 'Innaka Mayyitun Wa Innahum Mayyitoon.'
The speaking is in the direct Innaka= YOU ARE dying/death is written on you, and they are dying/death is written on them.You cannot speak to a Mayt, as the Mayt is lifeless. While you can speak loud and clear to a Mayyit, the way Allah is peaking to us in . Can you see the difference now, Ahmed?
I can see that you are trying to prove reincarnation using the Quran, fine bro but I?m sure you will not be able to because Allah does not play games with us
Be careful of the way you speak about Allah!
I am, with the faithful members here, are studying the Quran. Let go of any other thoughts, Ahmed.
Also, I am a sister, in case you have forgotten. Salam -
Salam Ahmed,
The meanings I wrote for Mayt and Mayyit are known to anyone who knows good enough of Arabic.
I suggest that you speak to an Arabic language professor as well as an Islamic Studies 3allamah before you rush into judgment.
The following is the explanation of Al Qurdubiy" " . " " ; . , ; . , . , ; . " " . ; . . . , . ;
Thanks Taj
but Al Qurtoby said that it is hassan to read it Ma'et " ", which is totally different to " "
and what he translated is the word he changed, this is funny indeed by him, lol
well i can't take that bro, but you can
peace be with you
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Salam Ahmed,
The meanings I wrote for Mayt and Mayyit are known to anyone who knows good enough of Arabic.
I suggest that you speak to an Arabic language professor as well as an Islamic Studies 3allamah before you rush into judgment.
The following is the explanation of Al Qurdubiy" " . " " ; . , ; . , . , ; . " " . ; . . . , . ;
Thanks Taj
but Al Qurtoby said that it is hassan to read it Ma'et " ", which is totally different to " "
and what he translated is the word he changed, this is funny indeed by him, lol
well i can't take that bro, but you can
peace be with you
I see that you cannot even read Arabic. Please read this again. It can be clearer than this. Al Hassan And Al Farra' and Al Kisaa'ey, three well known Arabic language masters
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Brother Taj
only means that every one is going to die, and mohammad will not be treated differently regarding death, this also apply on the ones that already dead, or do you think the past before that verse are not included?
Salam
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I see that you cannot even read Arabic. Please read this again.
well, we have a change in tone, in here, fine if you think as such
It can be clearer than this. Al Hassan And Al Farra' and Al Kisaa'ey, three well known Arabic language masters
. , ;
absolutely wrong and never ever heard of such non sense, but i read it before you though but i threw it the rubbish bin as i do with the corupt hadith, but I accept many other things by Al Qurtoby if it make sense not to bloody prove incarnation, if you want to say someone will die in the future you have to say it as such
or
now i hope you can read arabic
Edit
you are also missing an important point, that timeline does not apply on Allah, i.e. past, present and future do not apply on Allah, that is why He siaid miracously as such to cover all humanity including the prophet without any discrimination in death
but what about you tell us how the Quran proves incarnation in your mind?
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The language masters are in your rubbish bin!!?? Who else is not there!!??
The language masters shock
I swear by Allah i never heard of such people neither i'm sure if they existed for real
are you sure Taj that they existed? and if you are sure that they said as such? and if you are sure, why this thing they said was never taugh at schools?
now remember that this is depenedant on the tashkil which was added to the Quran by humans and is something not in the classic arabic lol
therefore you have no point indeed
salam
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Those are the ones who squandered their own selves to abide in hell for a long time -ulaaekellezeena haseruu anfusahum fee cehenneme haaleduun (23103)
the word haaleduun may have a different meaning than eternal in terms of one?s stay in the hell because its dwellers will be transferrred to heaven after they pay for their past sins or if God pardons them.
I was not aware of this. Could you please quote the ayah in support of your position.
Hell will lie in wait (78 21), a goal for those who transgress the bounds of what is right (22). In it shall they remain for a long time ?ahkaaba (23).
According to Muhammed Asad the word ahkaab, that is, for a long time means not for ever because the term hukb or hikbah (of which ahkaab is the plural) denotes no more than a period of time (Jawharee). Hukb is simply years (As?s, Q?m?s, Lisan al-?Arab, etc); it is obvious that it signifies a limited period of time, not eternity.
As for those who bring wretchedness upon themselves, (they shall live) in the fire, where they will have (nothing but) moans and sobs (to relieve their pain) (116), therein to abide as long as the heavens and the earth endure ? unless thy Sustainer wills it otherwise (107)
God shall say "The fire will be your abode, therein to abide ?unless God wills it otherwise." (6 12
It is clear from 11107 and 6128 that the duration of suffering in hell will be limited by God?s mercy because scorching a sinner there eternally for the sins he has committed in his life time of say only 60 years is unjust. Requiting an evil should be only an evil like itself (42 40). Otherwise, it won?t be fair but evil in itself. Evil does not fit God.
He has willed upon Himself the law of mercy (612).
He says My mercy overspreads everything (7156)Peace,
Hasan Ak?ay -
Ok Ahmed,, read or better, write a Quran that does not have tashkil in it. Can you do that?
LOL Taj
Ok, i can do that and i actually saw some online Qurans that have no tashkil, but hold on a sec, i think i have a surprise for you, i'm just qualifying it
talk to you soon
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Yes, and after you write it, don't forget to find me two people who can read it the same!
what?
well, don't consider it for you then, it will be for the public, i think the Quran got you red handed and i will show the public this very soon
have a nice day and don't be upset that the satanic concept of reincarnation has been refuted fair and square
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Hello Public
This is a comment to show that the argument presented by Taj regarding the Tashkil on the word is flawed, he is basing his finding on a testimony by three unknown humans that he calls Arabic language masters, also he is basing his argument on the Tashkil which was not part of the Quran when it was revealed, but let?s assume for argument sake that the Tashkil was part of the Quran
He thinks that if there is a Shadda on the second letter ?Ya? in the word will make the word means ?Dead in the future? instead of just ?Dead with no association to time?, I never heard of such rule in arabic to be honest.
Well, here is the Quran with its Tashkil responding to him, we will see the same word with the same Tashkil and we should work out if it means ?Dead in the future? or just ?Dead?
It is Allah Who causeth the seed-grain and the date-stone to split and sprout. He causeth the living to issue from the dead, and He is the one to cause the dead to issue from the living. That is Allah then how are ye deluded away from the truth?
(95)
Clear from the above, the same Tashkil but it does not talk about any timeline associated with the word Mayyet, and as you can see all translators translated it ?Dead?, the verse can't have a timeline on it
Some may still argue that it is talking about the future when it happens to humans, well, while Allah already did it to humans (Uzair and others), it does not really mean humans only it means anything that is dead and Allah make it alive or vice versa, here is an example of a dead land that is already DEAD "not in the future" and was made alive, it happens every day everywhere around the world indeed, and you will see the same word with the same Tashkil used
It is He Who sendeth the winds like heralds of glad tidings, going before His mercy when they have carried the heavy-laden clouds, We drive them to a land that is dead, make rain to descend thereon, and produce every kind of harvest therewith thus shall We raise up the dead perchance ye may remember.
(57)
now the wind is driven to a land that is already DEAD
It is ironic that Taj is using the hadith to support his claim, while I?m not a hadith rejector, I never post any hadith to support an argument that I have, I only let the Arabic Quran speaks
See, in the above two verses can't mean Dead in te future
Salam
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See, in the above two verses can't mean Dead in te future
Dead in the future!?
He thinks that if there is a Shadda on the second letter ?Ya? in the word will make the word means ?Dead in the future? instead of just ?Dead with no association to time?, I never heard of such rule in arabic to be honest.
I am sure nobody has heard of this rule because you have just invented it. roll
Ask an Arabic language professor about the word 'Mayyit'. He/she will tell you that it does not mean dead.
All The ayat that you brought have the word Mayyit, which does not mean dead. Mayyit means either dying or death is written on it.
When Allah speaks to Muhammad saying "You are Mayyit.." Do you think it means "You are dead"!!!???The word 'Mayt' does mean 'Dead'.
Do yo think there are not in the Quran any ayat with the word 'Mayt'?