The meaning of Islam
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God's blessings,
AhmedBaghat
in our court here (the Free Minds court) we can only refer to the Quran to conclusivly back up what we say. Therefore anyone who says that Islam means submission to Allah in peace without showing us one verse from the Quran that clearly tells us as such will have no merit to convince us(the ones who want to learn the Quran)
I could disagree with your metaphor, because free-minds is not a court in any sense. But if you want it to be the place where your religion is purified before all the world, then so be it. I am not going to take that away from you.
If I submit to anyone, sure I?m already submitting to seek peace, why I have submitted from the first place then?
Islam means 'submission' and that means 'submitting' to anyone. The etymology of the word means that you are seeking peace and not more conflict. I know idolfree has been putting this thing together for along time trying to make something simple more complicated then it really is. In my mind he's trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill, but he's a mystic and that is what mystics do.
Islam means to submit to Allah, the arabic word itself can easily mean to submit to any human, but
Here you admit that the word itself can mean submitting to anyone or thing (not just humans). But why do you insist that some how in the Quran this meaning is changed. A word can seem to take on shades of meanings in different contexts but that depends on the context, and the acutal meaning of the word is never changed. Islam never has meant and never will mean 'submission to Allah' in the Quran or otherwise. Trying to prove a word's meaning through Quranic context (a book that we are putting under scrutiny to understand it any way) is futile, useless and meaningless.
we are talking about the context of the name of that religion and therefore it can only mean to submit to Allah and His will
"Context of the name of that religion"? What does that mean? It's hard trying to explain why Islam mean 'submission to God' because it doesn't mean that. When would 'submission' in the context of a religion ever morph to mean 'submission to God' in English.
If it morphs in your mind it is because you are a product of religious doctrine and brainwashing (no disrespect intended). This particular doctrine is common amongst Christians and Jews and is where Muslims got it from. In many cases they have succeeded at changing the meaning of a word amongst the populace by miscontruing and inventing meanings through their interpetation of those words' contexts in the Christian and Jewish Bibles, the Koran and the Hadeeth.
The first step to your true mental freedom will be breaking away from this vicious cylce of trying to intepret, but more importantly, redefine words through the context in which you find them.
Godbless,
Anwar -
God's blessings,
AhmedBaghat
in our court here (the Free Minds court) we can only refer to the Quran to conclusivly back up what we say. Therefore anyone who says that Islam means submission to Allah in peace without showing us one verse from the Quran that clearly tells us as such will have no merit to convince us(the ones who want to learn the Quran)
I could disagree with your metaphor, because free-minds is not a court in any sense. But if you want it to be the place where your religion is purified before all the world, then so be it. I am not going to take that away from you.
Peace bro
Ok, that is fine, it is a metaphor for myself indeed, a kind of a serious joke
If I submit to anyone, sure I?m already submitting to seek peace, why I have submitted from the first place then?
Islam means 'submission' and that means 'submitting' to anyone. The etymology of the word means that you are seeking peace and not more conflict. I know idolfree has been putting this thing together for along time trying to make something simple more complicated then it really is. In my mind he's trying to make a mountain out of a mole-hill, but he's a mystic and that is what mystics do.
not really seeking peace because you can be forced to seek it while in fact you don't want it, the like Japan/Germany in WWII
Islam means to submit to Allah, the arabic word itself can easily mean to submit to any human, but
Here you admit that the word itself can mean submitting to anyone or thing (not just humans).
So?, that is what i'm saying since i joined this web site, , i even showed an example from the Quran that the Queen of Sheba Surrendered to Solaiman in
But why do you insist that some how in the Quran this meaning is changed.
excuse me, i never said that, i showed exactly from the Quran what the word aslam (verb) means, the english translation was not mine, i only agreed with it, so your assumption is wrong
A word can seem to take on shades of meanings in different contexts but that depends on the context, and the acutal meaning of the word is never changed.
sorry?, that was a bit confusing indeed
so you say a word can take many meanings according to the context then you said but the actual meaning of the word does not change, shock
well, let me ask you then, which meaning out of the many meanings is the actual meaning?
Islam never has meant and never will mean 'submission to Allah' in the Quran or otherwise.
well, look who is talking, you said your opinion without any evidences, i provided compelling evidences from the Quran, i guess it is clear to many where the truth stands
Trying to prove a word's meaning through Quranic context (a book that we are putting under scrutiny to understand it any way) is futile, useless and meaningless.
that was funny, thanks, but hey i know that I do it the right way according to the Quran because mister root, the Quran explains its self
Ahmed said
we are talking about the context of the name of that religion and therefore it can only mean to submit to Allah and His will
"Context of the name of that religion"? What does that mean? It's hard trying to explain why Islam mean 'submission to God' because it doesn't mean that. When would 'submission' in the context of a religion ever morph to mean 'submission to God' in English.
i don't klnow what you are talking about above
the name of the religion has a meaning, like any other religion, it is not like i will name a religion something like Bob
If it morphs in your mind it is because you are a product of religious doctrine and brainwashing (no disrespect intended).
really no respect?, well you can insult the that doctrine as much as you want but your ignorace is evident trying to link me to that doctrine that i know nothing about, this is utter BS
This particular doctrine is common amongst Christians and Jews and is where Muslims got it from.
utter BS unless you provide evidences, (no disrespect intended)
In many cases they have succeeded at changing the meaning of a word amongst the populace by miscontruing and inventing meanings through their interpetation of those words' contexts in the Christian and Jewish Bibles, the Koran and the Hadeeth.
well the translation to english was not mine, but i can give an expert witness testimony that it is damn accurate (you know i'm a native arabic speaker wink )
The first step to your true mental freedom will be breaking away from this vicious cylce of trying to intepret, but more importantly, redefine words through the context in which you find them.
yeh i define words to the context i find them in the verses and not starngnly the translators agreed with me
where is your proofs from the Quran?
please i don't want to listen to personal opinions, this is for me utter BS even if it is my persoanl opinion, (no disrespect intended)
Godbless,
AnwarSalam
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Wow,
I'm not sure if you fully understood me or not but I'm going to make some points and you can let me know. You go kind of nasty. But I'll try to fight that urge.
not really seeking peace because you can be forced to seek it while in fact you don't want it, the like Japan/Germany in WWII
Aslama as root comes from submission to make peace. That is the etymology of the word and it most cases it is true. But I'm not talking about any certain situations.
progod wrote
Here you admit that the word itself can mean submitting to anyone or thing (not just humans).So?, that is what i'm saying since i joined this web site, , i even showed an example from the Quran that the Queen of Sheba Surrendered to Solaiman in
Good. So what all that attitude for. Your all like "SO evil ?" Is all that necessary?
excuse me, i never said that, i showed exactly from the Quran what the word aslam (verb) means, the english translation was not mine, i only agreed with it, so your assumption is wrong
But you do say it cahnges magically in the Quran everytime you say that it means submission and then you say all of a sudden that "In the Quran" in means submission to God.
progod wrote
A word can seem to take on shades of meanings in different contexts but that depends on the context, and the acutal meaning of the word is never changed.sorry?, that was a bit confusing indeed
so you say a word can take many meanings according to the context then you said but the actual meaning of the word does not change,
well, let me ask you then, which meaning out of the many meanings is the actual meaning?
Woe, Woe woe. Slow your role. It said "A word can SEEEEM to take on shades of meaning." Don't get it twisted.
progod wrote
Islam never has meant and never will mean 'submission to Allah' in the Quran or otherwise.well, look who is talking, you said your opinion without any evidences, i provided compelling evidences from the Quran, i guess it is clear to many where the truth stands
Where's your truth, forcing things into context. Tiwsiting context. Can you really PROVE to me that Islam means 'Submission to God'? Can you really prove that to me?
progod wrote
Trying to prove a word's meaning through Quranic context (a book that we are putting under scrutiny to understand it any way) is futile, useless and meaningless.that was funny, thanks, but hey i know that I do it the right way according to the Quran because mister root, the Quran explains its self
Ohh!! Now I'm mister root Maybe if you learned about roots you could understand the Quran better MMMMM! Take that one!!! x
As for the rest do you even know what doctrine I was talking about? Don't answer back with some "It doesn't even matter, because what your talking about it is BS anyway" please. That's what I expect from you,
Godbless,
Anwar -
Wow,
LOL, i actually read my comment again now, and I said wow as well, sorry for going too hard, i actually laughed at my comment, you can't deny it was a bit funny, sorry about that
I'm not sure if you fully understood me or not but I'm going to make some points and you can let me know. You go kind of nasty. But I'll try to fight that urge.
possibly you are right that we have some misunderstaning in hand, but i'm not trying to pick up fights btw lol
not really seeking peace because you can be forced to seek it while in fact you don't want it, the like Japan/Germany in WWII
Aslama as root comes from submission to make peace. That is the etymology of the word and it most cases it is true. But I'm not talking about any certain situations.
but the prophet never said it as such, the root method is flawed, because we have Sillim which means ladder and has the same root, why the ladder is not called peace then?
progod wrote
Here you admit that the word itself can mean submitting to anyone or thing (not just humans).So?, that is what i'm saying since i joined this web site, , i even showed an example from the Quran that the Queen of Sheba Surrendered to Solaiman in
Good. So what all that attitude for. Your all like "SO evil ?" Is all that necessary?
it is not an attitude, it is my nature in responding to every one even face to face, but i'm a kind man, don't be scared lol , and i apologised earlier and hope you accept it
excuse me, i never said that, i showed exactly from the Quran what the word aslam (verb) means, the english translation was not mine, i only agreed with it, so your assumption is wrong
But you do say it cahnges magically in the Quran everytime you say that it means submission and then you say all of a sudden that "In the Quran" in means submission to God.
the word Aslam means only to submit, it has no peace in it at all, peace means Salam, or Silm not Aslam or Islam
and how about all the threats and encouraging to go to war in the Quran where is peace in that submission to obey that order of aggression and possibly revenge from our enemies ?
Islam, means submission to Allah, and I showed many verses with the words "Aslam Lahu", it never said "Aslam Lahu in peace"
so i'm not adding or manipulating the crystal clear words of Allah and btw He warned us against such action
progod wrote
A word can seem to take on shades of meanings in different contexts but that depends on the context, and the acutal meaning of the word is never changed.sorry?, that was a bit confusing indeed
so you say a word can take many meanings according to the context then you said but the actual meaning of the word does not change,
well, let me ask you then, which meaning out of the many meanings is the actual meaning?
Woe, Woe woe. Slow your role. It said "A word can SEEEEM to take on shades of meaning." Don't get it twisted.
ok, ok, ok, i just pressed the brake
so if a word SEEEEM to take on shades of meanings, which shade of meaning would be the actual meaning?
progod wrote
Islam never has meant and never will mean 'submission to Allah' in the Quran or otherwise.well, look who is talking, you said your opinion without any evidences, i provided compelling evidences from the Quran, i guess it is clear to many where the truth stands
Where's your truth, forcing things into context. Tiwsiting context. Can you really PROVE to me that Islam means 'Submission to God'? Can you really prove that to me?
i showed all the popular translators who translated it as such and THEY NEVER ADDED THE ADDITIONAL WORDS "IN PEACE" THAT YOU AND OTHERS ARE TRYING HARD TO ADD, and that is what it means in Arabic BTW, if I ask anyone to surrender, it does not mean I'm asking him to be peacful especially if that request of submission accompanied with a threat
progod wrote
Trying to prove a word's meaning through Quranic context (a book that we are putting under scrutiny to understand it any way) is futile, useless and meaningless.that was funny, thanks, but hey i know that I do it the right way according to the Quran because mister root, the Quran explains its self
Ohh!! Now I'm mister root D Maybe if you learned about roots you could understand the Quran better MMMMM! Take that one!!! D
i know the root method since i was almost a baby, that is what native arabic children start learning indeed lol , i'm not kiddin here, i actually have three professional arabic grammar books, not for children though, that is why you will never see the root thingy mentioned in it, i swear it is not mentioned at all
As for the rest do you even know what doctrine I was talking about? Don't answer back with some "It doesn't even matter, because what your talking about it is BS anyway" please. That's what I expect from you,
Godbless,
Anwari guess you meant the sunni doctrine, which i'm too far from it
i think your expectation was wrong wink
Salam
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PEACE be upon you lol
Cant we have PEACE while discussing it? lol
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peace
ISLAM means PEACE
cool ! then would it be correct to greet with "islam alaykum" ?
peace(islam?)
Haha
that was a good one
Al Salam Alaikum
sorry I mean
Islam Alaikum
far out i'm still laughing
well good to start my friday with a good laugh lol
Cheers
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Haha
that was a good one
coming from you , it means a lot to me . lol
peace bro .
Mate, to be honest, I'm still laughing lol
I'm laughing because of its simple and irrefutable logic and at the same time feeling a bit shamed not to pick it up on my own, but I appreciate you brought it to my attention, it has been hard codded in my hard disk inside my brain for future use lol
Wa Al Salam
sorry i mean
Wa Aslam
lol
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Peace all,
The word "islam" for me means "peaceableness", it is the will to live in peace, to be submitted to the peace the god, to have the peace as the first option in any interaction.
Being a peaceable (muslim) doesn't nullify one's right of self defense when attacked, this is the main difference with being a peacefull one (supposed to never fight back). I hope you see the difference.
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Salam, )
I heard from someone that the real meaning of Islam is only 'Submission' not 'Peace'. It is said that 'Peace' was a redefinition that came later on when at some point during Islamic period.
Anyone has any knowledge about this? I need your help please.
Isl?m is simply what emphasizes sal?m or wholeness/peace.
I-sl?m is closely related to imperative form and was originally typed the same way (a-s-l-m, without the stressed 2nd alif that is today included). -
Peace someone. I like your understanding of 'peaceable'. What about defining peace as the overall and long term goal? In this way restrained,rational,proportional,justified,limited self-defence is allowed in some circumstances,as it can lead to overall peace.
Peace all. Ps;alpha97 and idol-free,very good understandings too. ) -
Peace be upon you,
Islam would be Peacefulness
Salaam would be Peace
Muslim would be one who manifests PeaceAll of this is done by submitting Man's Will to God's Will.
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Ahmed, Don't confuse my posts with others. I don't think that Islam has peace in its meaning at all. That is however the origin of why the term for 'submission' comes from the root 'peace'. It can means 'to make peace as it is also synonymous with the second form or sallama, and can litterally mean to make something saleem or saalim or to put it in a state of silm, which can be 'to pacify.' But regular old submission is also what aslama means.
I'm not saying that islaam means 'submission in peace' at all. i'm not saying that.
but the prophet never said it as such, the root method is flawed, because we have Sillim which means ladder and has the same root, why the ladder is not called peace then?
There are exceptions to the rules in every language. Sillim CAN have a meaning based off of salaam, but words like sundus or qamtareer or zamhareer don't really have 3 letter roots either. There are tons of words that don't follow the meaning of a three letter root. You have to look more into the origins of the language to get an answer for the existence of the word (loan words, surviving word from a root in the ancestor language, etc., etc.).
But let me say that as fluent as you may be in Arabic please don't assume that you know the ancient Arabic that the Quran is in. What you have (I assume you are educated) is a deep familiarity with most of the words used in the Quran, the style of Arabic in general, etc. etc. But the Quran's Arabic (and even the hadeeths Arabic) has a side that you do not know, based in roots. Old Arabic was much more connected to the root system then modern Arabic. When you grab a dictionary and you look up the a word and it has meanings that you have never heard of, don't disregard the dictionary and think that what you recognize is better than what you don't recognize. Those meanings are just as valid, it is just that 1000 years ago when the language of the Quran was the native language of the people (they didn't learn it in school and their native languages weren't creole dialects of Arabic) the root system and the measure system was the most integral part of the language.
Even though I agree with most of what you say, I think you have a serious issue with arrogance and understanding that the Arabic that you learned in school is not 100% the Arabic that was spoken 1000 years ago. I say that true literary Arabic (modern day, Middle-age Islamic Arabic) is about 85-98 percent of what was spoken 1000 years ago. Which is close enough to give you the illusion that you have that it has been the same langauge since the advent of the Quran.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Ahmed, Don't confuse my posts with others. I don't think that Islam has peace in its meaning at all.
Sure Anwar, sorry for the mix up, sometimes it is hard to figure out what the others stand for especially when we all are strangers
That is however the origin of why the term for 'submission' comes from the root 'peace'. It can means 'to make peace
and why you think that the S L M root means peace?, why not it does not mean to Submit?
Well a root must be on the sense of a verb, i.e. A K L root means ?to eat?, another example is SH R B which means ?to drink?
Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?
I can?t see it means ?to peace?
as it is also synonymous with the second form or sallama, and can litterally mean to make something saleem or saalim or to put it in a state of silm, which can be 'to pacify.' But regular old submission is also what aslama means.
so you agreed first then you came back trying hard to prove it again, what sense is that bro?
I'm not saying that islaam means 'submission in peace' at all. i'm not saying that.
ok so you agreed again
bro the root method is flawed, and can?t be used to figure meanings conclusively, obly the context that does that
but the prophet never said it as such, the root method is flawed, because we have Sillim which means ladder and has the same root, why the ladder is not called peace then?
There are exceptions to the rules in every language. Sillim CAN have a meaning based off of salaam,
can you elaborate in how a ladder means salaam
but words like sundus or qamtareer or zamhareer don't really have 3 letter roots either.
exactly some have 2,3,4 letters as root
There are tons of words that don't follow the meaning of a three letter root.
now we are compatible
You have to look more into the origins of the language to get an answer for the existence of the word (loan words, surviving word from a root in the ancestor language, etc., etc.).
for me it is enough to use the Quran as the origin of the language indeed, I only use the quran to explain itself, I don?t use dictionaries made by humans to explain God?s words, I used God?s words to explain His words, that is why I take the Quran as literal as possible
But let me say that as fluent as you may be in Arabic please don't assume that you know the ancient Arabic that the Quran is in.
The Quran is not in ancient Arabic, in fact the Quran is written very advanced Arabic indeed and is full of Balagha, you will see most Arabic speakers lack Balagha anyway if they even know what it means
What you have (I assume you are educated) is a deep familiarity with most of the words used in the Quran, the style of Arabic in general, etc. etc.
honestly and Allah is my witness, I was a top student in the Arabic grammar, and I loved it for 12 years during my studies and still do
But the Quran's Arabic (and even the hadeeths Arabic) has a side that you do not know,
well for the hadith use of Arabic language, I consider it crap, in fact I can almost find a grammar error in every hadith
please don?t put the humans hadith in the same category as Allah hadith (The Quran)
now for my knowledge of the Arabic Quran, of course I agree with you, no human can understand the whole Quran even the most knowledgeable human Regarding Allah and the Arabic language, 37 confirms that
therefore I will never claim till I die that I understand the whole Arabic Quran, but the years I spent studying it and using many of the top Arabic experts knowledge which is available to me up to this moment, I believe I gained great experience understanding the literal Arabic Quran and I do appreciate it heaps, in fact I consider this is the greatest achievement I did or will do in my entire life, Alhamdulellah
based in roots. Old Arabic was much more connected to the root system then modern Arabic. When you grab a dictionary and you look up the a word and it has meanings that you have never heard of, don't disregard the dictionary and think that what you recognize is better than what you don't recognize.
I only use a Arabic to Arabic dictionary when I need it, and for the last 20 years or so I hardly used one, it is not disregarding, it is just I don?t need it that?s all, but I agree that when I read some of these dictionaries there are other meanings for the same words that I was never aware of
But the important point is, the context is the only thing that control the meaning not the root, therefore why I confuse myself with the root thingy if I managed to figure out the meaning from the context?, it is not like I have extra time that I have to waste
Those meanings are just as valid,
well, this is only valid if you take those authors writings for granted, and I only take the Quran for granted not the human work unless they provided a compelling argument from this planet not from another universe
it is just that 1000 years ago when the language of the Quran was the native language of the people (they didn't learn it in school and their native languages weren't creole dialects of Arabic) the root system and the measure system was the most integral part of the language.
excuse me, the Arabic Quran is my native language, in fact and I swear by Allah, when I read the Quran it sounds more native to me than when I talk to others in Arabic or read any other Arabic book
Even though I agree with most of what you say,
well if you agree with most of what I say, then you actually agreeing with the literal meaning of the Arabic Quran, because what I say is the literal meaning of the Arabic Quran, I hardly invented anything new, I may have done it a couple of times but I stressed it was my pure opinion
I think you have a serious issue with arrogance and understanding that the Arabic that you learned in school is not 100% the Arabic that was spoken 1000 years ago.
ok, for the arrogance, of course I?m, like many here, but I only do it with the arrogant, I don?t do it with everyone, this is a simple literal action to respond accordingly to anyone, arrogance = arrogance, rudeness = rudeness, you know an eye for an eye, but again, I?m a kind man therefore, kindness = kindness, respect = respect, down to earth = down to earth, I hope you get what I meant, it is all about controlling and knowing what I do according to the circumstance, I may judged an incident wrong but if was corrected I always admit my fault anyway and I see this far from being arrogant
For the Arabic I learnt at school, of course I agree that it is not the Arabic spoken 1000 years ago, but you are missing the point, they taught me in school how the arabs 1000 years ago used to talk
I say that true literary Arabic (modern day, Middle-age Islamic Arabic) is about 85-98 percent of what was spoken 1000 years ago.
of course but that deos not mean that I don?t know how they spoke exactly 1000 years ago, the reason is simply I spent 12 years studying how they used to do it which including compulsory study and testing of thousands of their poems
now my note is while I agree that spoken Arabic now is not like the spoken Arabic 100 years ago,
how do you know that the Quran was authored in the same Arabic used 1000 years ago?, in fact the logical evidences does not incline that
- The Quran is a God words and whatever they spoke back then is human words
- Comparing the hadith of those people with the hadith of the Quran we will discover that there no comparison in its beauty and lack of errors
- The hadith is very hard to understand and you need other sources to understand it, while you only need the Quran to understand the Quran, this is evident as we know that Mohammad never explained the whole Quran only less than 40% of it (a wild guess that is)
Therefore, what applied on the arabs 1000 years ago regarding the Quran Arabic compared to their Arabic is the exact same regarding now days, the Quran stays superior above all
Which is close enough to give you the illusion that you have that it has been the same langauge since the advent of the Quran.
Godbless,
AnwarI think you are the one that suffers from illusions
Cheers
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Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?
I can?t see it means ?to peace?
It means 'to be in peace' or 'to be safe and sound' which implies peace.
bro the root method is flawed, and can?t be used to figure meanings conclusively, obly the context that does that
I disagree with that completely. The root method is not flawed, it is just that nothing is absolute. Arabic is based off of roots, mainly, but it is also based off of loan words and archaic words that come from roots that no longer existed anymore when Muhammad (God bless him) spoke the language at that time called Arabic.
can you elaborate in how a ladder means salaam
It is not that ladder has anything to do with salaam it is that the form that the word follow can have to do with salaam. Sillim is as the same from as fi'-'il. That is the problem, step out of your langauge for a second and look at it in strictly grammatical terms. You are too invested.
exactly some have 2,3,4 letters as root
No Arabic word has 2 letters as a root. IT is always 3, one letter is just doubled.
for me it is enough to use the Quran as the origin of the language indeed, I only use the quran to explain itself, I don?t use dictionaries made by humans to explain God?s words, I used God?s words to explain His words, that is why I take the Quran as literal as possible
This is wrong. The Quran is not the origin of the langauge. Muhammad and his contemporaries, the poets of old and even the people who recorded the hadeeth spoke the same Arabic. The Quran used THEIR langugage to communicate HIS message. The words in the Quran are not God's. They are the words of men, and specifically the men of that time. Not even the phrases are God's, the message and the message alone is God's. That is what is distorting your view of this issue. Your approach is all wrong.(knowing you I know that statement is going to piss you off).
The Quran is not in ancient Arabic, in fact the Quran is written very advanced Arabic indeed and is full of Balagha, you will see most Arabic speakers lack Balagha anyway if they even know what it means
The Quran is in ancient Arabic. It is that it's Arabic has been preserved and is still revered as elegant speech. What you consider balagha most Arabs consider archaisms. Don't worry, it's not just English that has this problem.
Posted Sun Apr 09, 2006 129 pm Post subject
progod wrote
Ahmed, Don't confuse my posts with others. I don't think that Islam has peace in its meaning at all.Sure Anwar, sorry for the mix up, sometimes it is hard to figure out what the others stand for especially when we all are strangers
progod wrote
That is however the origin of why the term for 'submission' comes from the root 'peace'. It can means 'to make peaceand why you think that the S L M root means peace?, why not it does not mean to Submit?
Well a root must be on the sense of a verb, i.e. A K L root means ?to eat?, another example is SH R B which means ?to drink?
Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?
I can?t see it means ?to peace?
progod wrote
as it is also synonymous with the second form or sallama, and can litterally mean to make something saleem or saalim or to put it in a state of silm, which can be 'to pacify.' But regular old submission is also what aslama means.so you agreed first then you came back trying hard to prove it again, what sense is that bro?
progod wrote
I'm not saying that islaam means 'submission in peace' at all. i'm not saying that.ok so you agreed again
bro the root method is flawed, and can?t be used to figure meanings conclusively, obly the context that does that
Quote
but the prophet never said it as such, the root method is flawed, because we have Sillim which means ladder and has the same root, why the ladder is not called peace then?progod wrote
There are exceptions to the rules in every language. Sillim CAN have a meaning based off of salaam,can you elaborate in how a ladder means salaam
progod wrote
but words like sundus or qamtareer or zamhareer don't really have 3 letter roots either.exactly some have 2,3,4 letters as root
progod wrote
There are tons of words that don't follow the meaning of a three letter root.now we are compatible
progod wrote
You have to look more into the origins of the language to get an answer for the existence of the word (loan words, surviving word from a root in the ancestor language, etc., etc.).for me it is enough to use the Quran as the origin of the language indeed, I only use the quran to explain itself, I don?t use dictionaries made by humans to explain God?s words, I used God?s words to explain His words, that is why I take the Quran as literal as possible
progod wrote
But let me say that as fluent as you may be in Arabic please don't assume that you know the ancient Arabic that the Quran is in.The Quran is not in ancient Arabic, in fact the Quran is written very advanced Arabic indeed and is full of Balagha, you will see most Arabic speakers lack Balagha anyway if they even know what it means
progod wrote
What you have (I assume you are educated) is a deep familiarity with most of the words used in the Quran, the style of Arabic in general, etc. etc.honestly and Allah is my witness, I was a top student in the Arabic grammar, and I loved it for 12 years during my studies and still do
That should help you understand this issue better. But you should take into consideration that you learned more than just grammar. You learned ideas ABOUT Arabic and not explaining Arabic.
well for the hadith use of Arabic language, I consider it crap, in fact I can almost find a grammar error in every hadith
Mind sharing them?
excuse me, the Arabic Quran is my native language, in fact and I swear by Allah, when I read the Quran it sounds more native to me than when I talk to others in Arabic or read any other Arabic book
Sounds like your confusing things. You know very well that Arabic Quran is NOT your native language. You are lying to me and yourself. I'm not talking about how you feel about the language.
For the Arabic I learnt at school, of course I agree that it is not the Arabic spoken 1000 years ago, but you are missing the point, they taught me in school how the arabs 1000 years ago used to talk
Now we are starting to get to the truth. And with what they taught you they taught your for their limits about the depth of Arabic grammar and its forms. And that is why I'm trying to get you to understand. Respect the works of those who devoted themselves to that ancient language, and stop assuming that your modern langauge and skills totally encompass the language of the Quran and you need not consult the dictionaries or the grammar books because you SPEAK the langauge (which just means that you are very familiar with it)
- The Quran is a God words and whatever they spoke back then is human words
- Comparing the hadith of those people with the hadith of the Quran we will discover that there no comparison in its beauty and lack of errors
- The hadith is very hard to understand and you need other sources to understand it, while you only need the Quran to understand the Quran, this is evident as we know that Mohammad never explained the whole Quran only less than 40% of it (a wild guess that is)
Therefore, what applied on the arabs 1000 years ago regarding the Quran Arabic compared to their Arabic is the exact same regarding now days, the Quran stays superior above all
THe Quran's words are human words. Not God's words. The phrase "Word of God" is metaphorical and refers to the message not the literal words. That is something that any mediocre intelligent person can see.(you'll probably stop reading objectively after this because your probably mad now)
The hadeeth is just as easy to understand as the Quran in my opinion. You don't have to take passage of the QUran (from how you understand them) and force them to be your reality. There are passages in the Quran that need to be looked a number of times as there are also hadeeth in the same category.You also took the conept of i'jaaz and you have really taken it too far. This is a Islamic idea that you have taken as given without really checking.
Godbless,
Anwar -
and why you think that the S L M root means peace?, why not it does not mean to Submit?
Well a root must be on the sense of a verb, i.e. A K L root means ?to eat?, another example is SH R B which means ?to drink?
Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?
I can?t see it means ?to peace?
S L M means to make complete in opposite of causing disharmony. This is the original meaning of the word, no doubt. Why S L M would have evolved into "to submit" remains a mystery to me and therefor I reject such a far fetched explanation.
I don't understand why you keep asking this question when being all reluctant to try to grasp any explanation but your standard muslim one.
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Peace be upon you Someone,
Would you defend yourself if attacked?
Yes, that would be "keeping the peace", and hopefully my mental state would still remain at peace while I am defending myself so that I dont go overboard and kill the person, which might happen if I let my emotions have free reign. Peaceful mindstate must always be kept as best as possible.