The meaning of Islam

unknownuser

peace

ISLAM means PEACE

cool ! then would it be correct to greet with "islam alaykum" ?

peace(islam?)

Haha

that was a good one

Al Salam Alaikum

sorry I mean

Islam Alaikum

far out i'm still laughing

well good to start my friday with a good laugh lol

Cheers

Fahad1

Haha

that was a good one

coming from you , it means a lot to me . lol

peace bro .

unknownuser

Haha

that was a good one

coming from you , it means a lot to me . lol

peace bro .

Mate, to be honest, I'm still laughing lol

I'm laughing because of its simple and irrefutable logic and at the same time feeling a bit shamed not to pick it up on my own, but I appreciate you brought it to my attention, it has been hard codded in my hard disk inside my brain for future use lol

Wa Al Salam

sorry i mean

Wa Aslam

lol

Someone

Peace all,

The word "islam" for me means "peaceableness", it is the will to live in peace, to be submitted to the peace the god, to have the peace as the first option in any interaction.

Being a peaceable (muslim) doesn't nullify one's right of self defense when attacked, this is the main difference with being a peacefull one (supposed to never fight back). I hope you see the difference.

--

el-Aziz

Salam, )

I heard from someone that the real meaning of Islam is only 'Submission' not 'Peace'. It is said that 'Peace' was a redefinition that came later on when at some point during Islamic period.

Anyone has any knowledge about this? I need your help please.

Isl?m is simply what emphasizes sal?m or wholeness/peace.
I-sl?m is closely related to imperative form and was originally typed the same way (a-s-l-m, without the stressed 2nd alif that is today included).

unknownuser

Peace someone. I like your understanding of 'peaceable'. What about defining peace as the overall and long term goal? In this way restrained,rational,proportional,justified,limited self-defence is allowed in some circumstances,as it can lead to overall peace.
Peace all. Ps;alpha97 and idol-free,very good understandings too. )

unknownuser

Peace be upon you,

Islam would be Peacefulness
Salaam would be Peace
Muslim would be one who manifests Peace

All of this is done by submitting Man's Will to God's Will.

Someone

Peace upon you idolfree1,

Would you defend yourself if attacked?

This is the difference between "peacefull" and "peaceable".

--

progod

Ahmed, Don't confuse my posts with others. I don't think that Islam has peace in its meaning at all. That is however the origin of why the term for 'submission' comes from the root 'peace'. It can means 'to make peace as it is also synonymous with the second form or sallama, and can litterally mean to make something saleem or saalim or to put it in a state of silm, which can be 'to pacify.' But regular old submission is also what aslama means.

I'm not saying that islaam means 'submission in peace' at all. i'm not saying that.

but the prophet never said it as such, the root method is flawed, because we have Sillim which means ladder and has the same root, why the ladder is not called peace then?

There are exceptions to the rules in every language. Sillim CAN have a meaning based off of salaam, but words like sundus or qamtareer or zamhareer don't really have 3 letter roots either. There are tons of words that don't follow the meaning of a three letter root. You have to look more into the origins of the language to get an answer for the existence of the word (loan words, surviving word from a root in the ancestor language, etc., etc.).

But let me say that as fluent as you may be in Arabic please don't assume that you know the ancient Arabic that the Quran is in. What you have (I assume you are educated) is a deep familiarity with most of the words used in the Quran, the style of Arabic in general, etc. etc. But the Quran's Arabic (and even the hadeeths Arabic) has a side that you do not know, based in roots. Old Arabic was much more connected to the root system then modern Arabic. When you grab a dictionary and you look up the a word and it has meanings that you have never heard of, don't disregard the dictionary and think that what you recognize is better than what you don't recognize. Those meanings are just as valid, it is just that 1000 years ago when the language of the Quran was the native language of the people (they didn't learn it in school and their native languages weren't creole dialects of Arabic) the root system and the measure system was the most integral part of the language.

Even though I agree with most of what you say, I think you have a serious issue with arrogance and understanding that the Arabic that you learned in school is not 100% the Arabic that was spoken 1000 years ago. I say that true literary Arabic (modern day, Middle-age Islamic Arabic) is about 85-98 percent of what was spoken 1000 years ago. Which is close enough to give you the illusion that you have that it has been the same langauge since the advent of the Quran.

Godbless,
Anwar

unknownuser

Ahmed, Don't confuse my posts with others. I don't think that Islam has peace in its meaning at all.

Sure Anwar, sorry for the mix up, sometimes it is hard to figure out what the others stand for especially when we all are strangers

That is however the origin of why the term for 'submission' comes from the root 'peace'. It can means 'to make peace

and why you think that the S L M root means peace?, why not it does not mean to Submit?

Well a root must be on the sense of a verb, i.e. A K L root means ?to eat?, another example is SH R B which means ?to drink?

Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?

I can?t see it means ?to peace?

as it is also synonymous with the second form or sallama, and can litterally mean to make something saleem or saalim or to put it in a state of silm, which can be 'to pacify.' But regular old submission is also what aslama means.

so you agreed first then you came back trying hard to prove it again, what sense is that bro?

I'm not saying that islaam means 'submission in peace' at all. i'm not saying that.

ok so you agreed again

bro the root method is flawed, and can?t be used to figure meanings conclusively, obly the context that does that

but the prophet never said it as such, the root method is flawed, because we have Sillim which means ladder and has the same root, why the ladder is not called peace then?

There are exceptions to the rules in every language. Sillim CAN have a meaning based off of salaam,

can you elaborate in how a ladder means salaam

but words like sundus or qamtareer or zamhareer don't really have 3 letter roots either.

exactly some have 2,3,4 letters as root

There are tons of words that don't follow the meaning of a three letter root.

now we are compatible

You have to look more into the origins of the language to get an answer for the existence of the word (loan words, surviving word from a root in the ancestor language, etc., etc.).

for me it is enough to use the Quran as the origin of the language indeed, I only use the quran to explain itself, I don?t use dictionaries made by humans to explain God?s words, I used God?s words to explain His words, that is why I take the Quran as literal as possible

But let me say that as fluent as you may be in Arabic please don't assume that you know the ancient Arabic that the Quran is in.

The Quran is not in ancient Arabic, in fact the Quran is written very advanced Arabic indeed and is full of Balagha, you will see most Arabic speakers lack Balagha anyway if they even know what it means

What you have (I assume you are educated) is a deep familiarity with most of the words used in the Quran, the style of Arabic in general, etc. etc.

honestly and Allah is my witness, I was a top student in the Arabic grammar, and I loved it for 12 years during my studies and still do

But the Quran's Arabic (and even the hadeeths Arabic) has a side that you do not know,

well for the hadith use of Arabic language, I consider it crap, in fact I can almost find a grammar error in every hadith

please don?t put the humans hadith in the same category as Allah hadith (The Quran)

now for my knowledge of the Arabic Quran, of course I agree with you, no human can understand the whole Quran even the most knowledgeable human Regarding Allah and the Arabic language, 37 confirms that

therefore I will never claim till I die that I understand the whole Arabic Quran, but the years I spent studying it and using many of the top Arabic experts knowledge which is available to me up to this moment, I believe I gained great experience understanding the literal Arabic Quran and I do appreciate it heaps, in fact I consider this is the greatest achievement I did or will do in my entire life, Alhamdulellah

based in roots. Old Arabic was much more connected to the root system then modern Arabic. When you grab a dictionary and you look up the a word and it has meanings that you have never heard of, don't disregard the dictionary and think that what you recognize is better than what you don't recognize.

I only use a Arabic to Arabic dictionary when I need it, and for the last 20 years or so I hardly used one, it is not disregarding, it is just I don?t need it that?s all, but I agree that when I read some of these dictionaries there are other meanings for the same words that I was never aware of

But the important point is, the context is the only thing that control the meaning not the root, therefore why I confuse myself with the root thingy if I managed to figure out the meaning from the context?, it is not like I have extra time that I have to waste

Those meanings are just as valid,

well, this is only valid if you take those authors writings for granted, and I only take the Quran for granted not the human work unless they provided a compelling argument from this planet not from another universe

it is just that 1000 years ago when the language of the Quran was the native language of the people (they didn't learn it in school and their native languages weren't creole dialects of Arabic) the root system and the measure system was the most integral part of the language.

excuse me, the Arabic Quran is my native language, in fact and I swear by Allah, when I read the Quran it sounds more native to me than when I talk to others in Arabic or read any other Arabic book

Even though I agree with most of what you say,

well if you agree with most of what I say, then you actually agreeing with the literal meaning of the Arabic Quran, because what I say is the literal meaning of the Arabic Quran, I hardly invented anything new, I may have done it a couple of times but I stressed it was my pure opinion

I think you have a serious issue with arrogance and understanding that the Arabic that you learned in school is not 100% the Arabic that was spoken 1000 years ago.

ok, for the arrogance, of course I?m, like many here, but I only do it with the arrogant, I don?t do it with everyone, this is a simple literal action to respond accordingly to anyone, arrogance = arrogance, rudeness = rudeness, you know an eye for an eye, but again, I?m a kind man therefore, kindness = kindness, respect = respect, down to earth = down to earth, I hope you get what I meant, it is all about controlling and knowing what I do according to the circumstance, I may judged an incident wrong but if was corrected I always admit my fault anyway and I see this far from being arrogant

For the Arabic I learnt at school, of course I agree that it is not the Arabic spoken 1000 years ago, but you are missing the point, they taught me in school how the arabs 1000 years ago used to talk

I say that true literary Arabic (modern day, Middle-age Islamic Arabic) is about 85-98 percent of what was spoken 1000 years ago.

of course but that deos not mean that I don?t know how they spoke exactly 1000 years ago, the reason is simply I spent 12 years studying how they used to do it which including compulsory study and testing of thousands of their poems

now my note is while I agree that spoken Arabic now is not like the spoken Arabic 100 years ago,

how do you know that the Quran was authored in the same Arabic used 1000 years ago?, in fact the logical evidences does not incline that

The Quran is a God words and whatever they spoke back then is human words
Comparing the hadith of those people with the hadith of the Quran we will discover that there no comparison in its beauty and lack of errors
The hadith is very hard to understand and you need other sources to understand it, while you only need the Quran to understand the Quran, this is evident as we know that Mohammad never explained the whole Quran only less than 40% of it (a wild guess that is)

Therefore, what applied on the arabs 1000 years ago regarding the Quran Arabic compared to their Arabic is the exact same regarding now days, the Quran stays superior above all

Which is close enough to give you the illusion that you have that it has been the same langauge since the advent of the Quran.

Godbless,
Anwar

I think you are the one that suffers from illusions

Cheers

progod

Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?

I can?t see it means ?to peace?

It means 'to be in peace' or 'to be safe and sound' which implies peace.

bro the root method is flawed, and can?t be used to figure meanings conclusively, obly the context that does that

I disagree with that completely. The root method is not flawed, it is just that nothing is absolute. Arabic is based off of roots, mainly, but it is also based off of loan words and archaic words that come from roots that no longer existed anymore when Muhammad (God bless him) spoke the language at that time called Arabic.

can you elaborate in how a ladder means salaam

It is not that ladder has anything to do with salaam it is that the form that the word follow can have to do with salaam. Sillim is as the same from as fi'-'il. That is the problem, step out of your langauge for a second and look at it in strictly grammatical terms. You are too invested.

exactly some have 2,3,4 letters as root

No Arabic word has 2 letters as a root. IT is always 3, one letter is just doubled.

for me it is enough to use the Quran as the origin of the language indeed, I only use the quran to explain itself, I don?t use dictionaries made by humans to explain God?s words, I used God?s words to explain His words, that is why I take the Quran as literal as possible

This is wrong. The Quran is not the origin of the langauge. Muhammad and his contemporaries, the poets of old and even the people who recorded the hadeeth spoke the same Arabic. The Quran used THEIR langugage to communicate HIS message. The words in the Quran are not God's. They are the words of men, and specifically the men of that time. Not even the phrases are God's, the message and the message alone is God's. That is what is distorting your view of this issue. Your approach is all wrong.(knowing you I know that statement is going to piss you off).

The Quran is not in ancient Arabic, in fact the Quran is written very advanced Arabic indeed and is full of Balagha, you will see most Arabic speakers lack Balagha anyway if they even know what it means

The Quran is in ancient Arabic. It is that it's Arabic has been preserved and is still revered as elegant speech. What you consider balagha most Arabs consider archaisms. Don't worry, it's not just English that has this problem.

Posted Sun Apr 09, 2006 129 pm Post subject

progod wrote
Ahmed, Don't confuse my posts with others. I don't think that Islam has peace in its meaning at all.

Sure Anwar, sorry for the mix up, sometimes it is hard to figure out what the others stand for especially when we all are strangers

progod wrote
That is however the origin of why the term for 'submission' comes from the root 'peace'. It can means 'to make peace

and why you think that the S L M root means peace?, why not it does not mean to Submit?

Well a root must be on the sense of a verb, i.e. A K L root means ?to eat?, another example is SH R B which means ?to drink?

Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?

I can?t see it means ?to peace?

progod wrote
as it is also synonymous with the second form or sallama, and can litterally mean to make something saleem or saalim or to put it in a state of silm, which can be 'to pacify.' But regular old submission is also what aslama means.

so you agreed first then you came back trying hard to prove it again, what sense is that bro?

progod wrote
I'm not saying that islaam means 'submission in peace' at all. i'm not saying that.

ok so you agreed again

bro the root method is flawed, and can?t be used to figure meanings conclusively, obly the context that does that

Quote
but the prophet never said it as such, the root method is flawed, because we have Sillim which means ladder and has the same root, why the ladder is not called peace then?

progod wrote
There are exceptions to the rules in every language. Sillim CAN have a meaning based off of salaam,

can you elaborate in how a ladder means salaam

progod wrote
but words like sundus or qamtareer or zamhareer don't really have 3 letter roots either.

exactly some have 2,3,4 letters as root

progod wrote
There are tons of words that don't follow the meaning of a three letter root.

now we are compatible

progod wrote
You have to look more into the origins of the language to get an answer for the existence of the word (loan words, surviving word from a root in the ancestor language, etc., etc.).

for me it is enough to use the Quran as the origin of the language indeed, I only use the quran to explain itself, I don?t use dictionaries made by humans to explain God?s words, I used God?s words to explain His words, that is why I take the Quran as literal as possible

progod wrote
But let me say that as fluent as you may be in Arabic please don't assume that you know the ancient Arabic that the Quran is in.

The Quran is not in ancient Arabic, in fact the Quran is written very advanced Arabic indeed and is full of Balagha, you will see most Arabic speakers lack Balagha anyway if they even know what it means

progod wrote
What you have (I assume you are educated) is a deep familiarity with most of the words used in the Quran, the style of Arabic in general, etc. etc.

honestly and Allah is my witness, I was a top student in the Arabic grammar, and I loved it for 12 years during my studies and still do

That should help you understand this issue better. But you should take into consideration that you learned more than just grammar. You learned ideas ABOUT Arabic and not explaining Arabic.

well for the hadith use of Arabic language, I consider it crap, in fact I can almost find a grammar error in every hadith

Mind sharing them?

excuse me, the Arabic Quran is my native language, in fact and I swear by Allah, when I read the Quran it sounds more native to me than when I talk to others in Arabic or read any other Arabic book

Sounds like your confusing things. You know very well that Arabic Quran is NOT your native language. You are lying to me and yourself. I'm not talking about how you feel about the language.

For the Arabic I learnt at school, of course I agree that it is not the Arabic spoken 1000 years ago, but you are missing the point, they taught me in school how the arabs 1000 years ago used to talk

Now we are starting to get to the truth. And with what they taught you they taught your for their limits about the depth of Arabic grammar and its forms. And that is why I'm trying to get you to understand. Respect the works of those who devoted themselves to that ancient language, and stop assuming that your modern langauge and skills totally encompass the language of the Quran and you need not consult the dictionaries or the grammar books because you SPEAK the langauge (which just means that you are very familiar with it)

The Quran is a God words and whatever they spoke back then is human words
Comparing the hadith of those people with the hadith of the Quran we will discover that there no comparison in its beauty and lack of errors
The hadith is very hard to understand and you need other sources to understand it, while you only need the Quran to understand the Quran, this is evident as we know that Mohammad never explained the whole Quran only less than 40% of it (a wild guess that is)

Therefore, what applied on the arabs 1000 years ago regarding the Quran Arabic compared to their Arabic is the exact same regarding now days, the Quran stays superior above all

THe Quran's words are human words. Not God's words. The phrase "Word of God" is metaphorical and refers to the message not the literal words. That is something that any mediocre intelligent person can see.(you'll probably stop reading objectively after this because your probably mad now)
The hadeeth is just as easy to understand as the Quran in my opinion. You don't have to take passage of the QUran (from how you understand them) and force them to be your reality. There are passages in the Quran that need to be looked a number of times as there are also hadeeth in the same category.

You also took the conept of i'jaaz and you have really taken it too far. This is a Islamic idea that you have taken as given without really checking.

Godbless,
Anwar

el-Aziz

and why you think that the S L M root means peace?, why not it does not mean to Submit?

Well a root must be on the sense of a verb, i.e. A K L root means ?to eat?, another example is SH R B which means ?to drink?

Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?

I can?t see it means ?to peace?

S L M means to make complete in opposite of causing disharmony. This is the original meaning of the word, no doubt. Why S L M would have evolved into "to submit" remains a mystery to me and therefor I reject such a far fetched explanation.

I don't understand why you keep asking this question when being all reluctant to try to grasp any explanation but your standard muslim one.

unknownuser

Peace be upon you Someone,

Would you defend yourself if attacked?

Yes, that would be "keeping the peace", and hopefully my mental state would still remain at peace while I am defending myself so that I dont go overboard and kill the person, which might happen if I let my emotions have free reign. Peaceful mindstate must always be kept as best as possible.

agentxxx

peace brother id1,

Peaceful mindstate must always be kept as best as possible.

INDEED

peace.

unknownuser

Now can you please tell me how S L M root is put in a verb to do somethin?

I can?t see it means ?to peace?

It means 'to be in peace' or 'to be safe and sound' which implies peace.

sorry, verb TO BE in arabic is "TAKOON"

bro the root method is flawed, and can?t be used to figure meanings conclusively, obly the context that does that

I disagree with that completely. The root method is not flawed, it is just that nothing is absolute. Arabic is based off of roots, mainly, but it is also based off of loan words and archaic words that come from roots that no longer existed anymore when Muhammad (God bless him) spoke the language at that time called Arabic.

we have to agree to disagree then, agreed?

can you elaborate in how a ladder means salaam

It is not that ladder has anything to do with salaam it is that the form that the word follow can have to do with salaam. Sillim is as the same from as fi'-'il. That is the problem, step out of your langauge for a second and look at it in strictly grammatical terms. You are too invested.

LOL bro, you created the wazn on the english letters

well Sillim wazn, is not as you said it is with a shadda on the second letter, and btw I only talk by grammar in arabic, at least I learnt it and it seems you didn't, LOL

i found it also funny that you want me to step out of what I learnt at schoold for 12 years in egypt and follow you who hardly knows the arabic grammar, not sure if you even speak arabic wink

exactly some have 2,3,4 letters as root

No Arabic word has 2 letters as a root. IT is always 3, one letter is just doubled.

without tashkil, there are many arabic roots that are two letters, i will try to find a few in the books I have, but these books for you are corrupted right?

for me it is enough to use the Quran as the origin of the language indeed, I only use the quran to explain itself, I don?t use dictionaries made by humans to explain God?s words, I used God?s words to explain His words, that is why I take the Quran as literal as possible

This is wrong. The Quran is not the origin of the langauge.

you missed me here, i meant the origin of the prefection ion the language, not how the arabs used to talk back then

Muhammad and his contemporaries, the poets of old and even the people who recorded the hadeeth spoke the same Arabic. The Quran used THEIR langugage to communicate HIS message. The words in the Quran are not God's. They are the words of men, and specifically the men of that time. Not even the phrases are God's, the message and the message alone is God's. That is what is distorting your view of this issue. Your approach is all wrong.(knowing you I know that statement is going to piss you off).

STOP accusing me of being distirted, i actually see you very distoryted indeed

the Quran Arabic is superior to whatever they used to talk back then, this is their own admission in the hadith that you are making it sound that you read it

The Quran is not in ancient Arabic, in fact the Quran is written very advanced Arabic indeed and is full of Balagha, you will see most Arabic speakers lack Balagha anyway if they even know what it means

The Quran is in ancient Arabic.

utter BS

the Quran is very advanced Arabic up to this very moment

It is that it's Arabic has been preserved and is still revered as elegant speech. What you consider balagha most Arabs consider archaisms. Don't worry, it's not just English that has this problem.

I'm not worried, neither I care what is in the english langugae really lol