Did the prophet comment on any of the qurans verses?
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Peace all. I feel some think that the prophets only role was to deliver the quran..and that he didnt try to explain or comment on any verses. This seems very strange considering that many people try themselves to explain the verses for the benefit of others. Ayman,layth and many others have tried to explain and comment on verses of the quran. In 1400 years time their comments may still be preserved and relevant for interpretations...Why the double standard by some of throwing out all previous hadith/explanations,but acknowledging new hadiths/explanations from forum members? Surely verification of any knowledge/interpretations is the key,not throwing out all previous knowledge because of a perceived difference in the methodology of interpretation... I have not noticed a fully coherent,convincing answer to this question yet.
peace. -
Peace,
Yes, of course he explained his idea/concept of what it meant. Of course he discussed it with the other believers. But we only have a handfull of those spread out in the history books. And it is hard to know which ones are true and which ones are not. Then people would say, only the ones that coincide with the Quran, yes ok, but maybe they made up that story using the information from those verses. So it is difficult to know, which ones are ok. So i believe they don't really matter for us, and we have a long road in front of us to investigate, to get a realistic image of Muhammed. The point is anyway, his view doesn't really matter, because the Quran explains itself, and we have to discuss and decide for our own which ones are the best understandings.
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peace arnoldyasin. Some good points. However,i ask through which medium does the quran explain itself? If a person says the medium is god,and then claims god is unknowable,how can we get an explanation? If muhammeds interpretations dont count then why should other peoples views count either? I agree that we have to work out the best meanings with our own intellect,but part of this intellect involves taking on board other views/interpretations in order to arrive at a greater overall personal understanding.I think this view that the quran explains itself needs clarification.
Peace. -
Peace,
I believe Muhammed's views don't count now, they did then, but we can't trace them in a responsible way, so they are not meant for us anymore. So we must do the exact same thing as Muhammed has done, read the Quran, try to get the best understanding. The point is, it doesn't matter what people say, the Quran supports it, or not. That is what i mean with the Quran explains itself, we must use crossfreference and our knowledge of Arabic, and keep an open mind. Approach the Quran from our modern view. Ayman has a certain understanding, but there are still some loopholes in it, so the Quran doesn't support his whole view. Like with his understanding of Jinn being fantasies. That is a real good understanding, but also Jinn can also be people in politics, highly intelligent people, outcasts, people living in villages far out of society and so on. Does this make Ayman's understanding wrong? No certainly not, but his is not the only answer, there is a whole list of them, and they are all accepted by the Quran, because they fit in the context of being not seen=Jinn and they fit in some contexts of verses. So it is not immediatly only which understanding is right, it is more which understandings fit in those verses. I think what is limiting us now, is that the arabic can give multiple meanings, and we start fighting over which one it is, instead of accepting God uses arabic, because He wants to say multiple things while using only 1 word or verse. Like salaat meaning contact, people start fighting is it prayer or recitation, no it is both! Both fit in the context of contact, and for both you need to prostrate physically and symbolic. It is not which understanding is the best, it is which understanding can fit in that verse and understanding of the arabic, if multiple meanings are the best, then they all are correct, and if they contradict, then there would be atleast one that sticks being the best. Like i did on verse 2432-33http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5387
I got 2 perfect understandings, and both fit perfectly in the context. So which one do i choose? Both! God gave us a hint multiple times in the Quran that He picked out arabic, and this has a reason. Arabic can give multiple understandings, and this is a must to adapt to evolving societies.
So our discussions are not on who is right, they are on who has a good view on the arabic and context. That we will differ sometimes on this, is normal, we are no flock, we are individuals that demand explanations. But sometimes our discussions has more to do with holding on to pre-programmed concepts then the question if the arabic and context are ok.
This is something we have to look out for, to not be to open minded that we drift away from logic, but also that we be carefull that we don't subconciously hold on to programs stuck in our mind.Difference in understandings has more to do with getting used to the new idea, then really with rejecting the idea. So for me, the arabic, the context and crossreferences are my judges.
Peace all
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peace arnoldyasin. Very interesting explanation. I would say overall that ones personal conscience is the key to a person understanding the quran,or any knowledge for that matter. And i wouldnt discount any knowledge from the past unless i verified that it was incorrect.(though knowledge from the past may not be 100% necessary either.) I would put conscience before the quran....otherwise people would still believe in hand chopping and lashing people etc... Also how did abraham find truth without the quran?
Peace. -
All of our knowledge mostly comes from the past. I always say, if it is good, it doesn't matter who said it, good is good. So of course were are not to dismiss knowledge of the past. So long it is wise and good, we are obliged to accept the best. That can be from any age, country, society, person or religion. So even if we did find real words from Muhammed, when we find something better, we have to accept that over Muhammed's words. So our judge is not who said it, but what is said.
As for Abraham, every age had its Book or knowledge that guided them. But guidance is to be found by your own, then God will help you further.
- The Books of Abraham and Moses.
Peace
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Peace arnoldyasin. Totally agree...
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Peace all. I feel some think that the prophets only role was to deliver the quran..and that he didnt try to explain or comment on any verses. This seems very strange considering that many people try themselves to explain the verses for the benefit of others. Ayman,layth and many others have tried to explain and comment on verses of the quran. In 1400 years time their comments may still be preserved and relevant for interpretations...Why the double standard by some of throwing out all previous hadith/explanations,but acknowledging new hadiths/explanations from forum members? Surely verification of any knowledge/interpretations is the key,not throwing out all previous knowledge because of a perceived difference in the methodology of interpretation... I have not noticed a fully coherent,convincing answer to this question yet.
peace.peace enquirer .
he surely would have shared his understanding of the Koran with others , but he wouldnt have said "u will follow my interpretation of the Koran , and i will have the final say in all interpretation of the Koran." because the Koran did not give him any such authority .for the same reason, even a truely authentic Hadith cannot have any authority over interpreting the Koran .
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peace
Could the quran be the 'hadith?'
It could be that all the quran contains are the sayings of muhammad. Maybe that's what he preached and his followers wrote it down.yes , the Koran is called "ahsan al hadees" (the best hadees) in 3923 .
the Koran is also called "la qawlu rasoolen kareem" (the saying of an honourable messenger) in 6940 .
peace.
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makes sense.
because sometimes people treat the quran like it was sent down from God as a book which muhammad read from.
I think he didn't need to comment on the quran because the quran is his word .peace
a small correction Koran is his saying/qawl , not word/kalimah . it is the word of God .
peace.
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If muhammeds interpretations dont count then why should other peoples views count either?
Exactly
thanks
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for the same reason, even a truely authentic Hadith cannot have any authority over interpreting the Koran .
I totally agree with the above
peace
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Peace phoenix,barbari and all. Phoenix,i think you have hit the nail on the head. ! The quran could be the prophets words,so the explanation is in all the different verses. The quran is the hadith of muhammed.
Darbari,i agree muhammed would not have said to follow his words without verification...But as i said earlier the quran is his words... This means the message of the quran and muhammed is 'Follow your own conscience,and use it to verify and evaluate all knowledge or experiences that come to you. In this way you can achieve peace and live morally'.
Peace all. -
Peace Enquirer,
I feel some think that the prophets only role was to deliver the quran..and that he didnt try to explain or comment on any verses. This seems very strange considering that many people try themselves to explain the verses for the benefit of others. Ayman,layth and many others have tried to explain and comment on verses of the quran.
I think that what some people say is that the messengers (not prophets) only role was to deliver the message (599, etc.). As for the prophets, of course they tried to explain/reveal the signs in the book to people just as we try to do
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YUSUFALI (We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
PICKTHAL With clear proofs and writings; and We have revealed unto thee the Remembrance that thou mayst explain to mankind that which hath been revealed for them, and that haply they may reflect.
SHAKIR With clear arguments and scriptures; and We have revealed to you the Reminder that you may make clear to men what has been revealed to them, and that haply they may reflect.
KHALIFA We provided them with the proofs and the scriptures. And we sent down to you this message, to proclaim for the people everything that is sent down to them, perhaps they will reflect.016.064
YUSUFALI And We sent down the Book to thee for the express purpose, that thou shouldst make clear to them those things in which they differ, and that it should be a guide and a mercy to those who believe.
PICKTHAL And We have revealed the Scripture unto thee only that thou mayst explain unto them that wherein they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.
SHAKIR And We have not revealed to you the Book except that you may make clear to them that about which they differ, and (as) a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe.
KHALIFA We have revealed this scripture to you, to point out for them what they dispute, and to provide guidance and mercy for people who believe.Passages such as the above have been used by sectarians to justify taking Hadith as divine inspiration. However, the same exact verb "bayan" (reveal/explain) is used with those given the book
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YUSUFALI And remember Allah took a covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it; but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!
PICKTHAL And (remember) when Allah laid a charge on those who had received the Scripture (He said) Ye are to expound it to mankind and not to hide it. But they flung it behind their backs and bought thereby a little gain. Verily evil is that which they have gained thereby.
SHAKIR And when Allah made a covenant with those who were given the Book You shall certainly make it known to men and you shall not hide it; but they cast it behind their backs and took a small price for it; so evil is that which they buy.
KHALIFA GOD took a covenant from those who received the scripture "You shall proclaim it to the people, and never conceal it." But they disregarded it behind their backs, and traded it away for a cheap price. What a miserable trade.So the prophets reveal/explain the book exactly like one of the people given the book. This is the same job as everyone who was given the book, so this is nothing special that is only for the prophet. Neither is there any indication that the prophet can do a better job than any person of the book who fulfils this covenant of revealing the book.
So I would say that at the time of the prophet those who were given the book, including the prophet, were trying to understand it exactly as we are trying now. There is no indication that The God gave a special "tafsir book" to the prophet or anything other than the great reading. In fact, even when The God wanted to communicate with the prophet on his private matters that have nothing to do with people as a whole, He did it through the great reading (for example 661-3).
In 1400 years time their comments may still be preserved and relevant for interpretations...Why the double standard by some of throwing out all previous hadith/explanations,but acknowledging new hadiths/explanations from forum members? Surely verification of any knowledge/interpretations is the key,not throwing out all previous knowledge because of a perceived difference in the methodology of interpretation... I have not noticed a fully coherent,convincing answer to this question yet.
There is absolutely no connection between Hadiths and the attempts of interpretation by those given the book and the prophet 1400 years ago. Hadiths simply reflect the discussions and dogma going on during their development centuries later under the Abbassid theocracy. I have no problem accepting a personal interpretation by Bukhari of a certain passage from the great reading if it makes sense. On the other hand, I would not accept an interpretation based on Bukhari's or any forum's member's claim that it was given to him by the prophet.
Peace,
Ayman
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peace ayman.Very Interesting and informative post. I would thus conclude,overall, that it is up to the individual himself to determine the best meanings of the qurans verses.(obviously this must be done honestly,and not indulging in desires and illusions.) If this is the overall conclusion,then i agree.
Peace all. -
Peace phoenix. Very good explanation. )