Where does EVIL come from?

unknownuser

Peace Omeiza,

I say that Evil comes from in the way we exercise our God-given free will on this Earth...

What say you?

I agree. God did not create evil. God created beings with free will and, in our disobedience to God, we create evil.

Now just how do we know that? The Quran thrusts out both venues, a contradtiction. At one instance it mentions that both good and bad are from GOD and at another the good is from GOD and the bad is from you or what you sow.

There are people who hold the notion that there is a god for good separate from the god that created evil. Allah corrected this notion when He said that there is just a single source for all activities (good or evil). There is one single NATURE.

First off, how do you know that it was "Allah" that corrected this notion? Please don't tell me it is written in the Quran and the Quran is the Word of Allah, because I will easily refute that notion. Second, if there is a 'single source for all activities (good or evil), then why the need to mention seperate "god of good" and "god of evil"? Are there two gods yet ONE NATURE or are there two natures and ONE GOD?

Everything is good but misuse is another thing. We are responsible for the misuse.

Actually, we are responsible for both the good and the bad usage. What good YOU have may be bad for the other and vice versa. I hope I'm making sense and if not please correct and elaborate. Thanks.

Omeiza

First off, how do you know that it was "Allah" that corrected this notion? Please don't tell me it is written in the Quran and the Quran is the Word of Allah, because I will easily refute that notion. Second, if there is a 'single source for all activities (good or evil), then why the need to mention seperate "god of good" and "god of evil"? Are there two gods yet ONE NATURE or are there two natures and ONE GOD?

You were apparently pointing to what you consider to be a contradiction in the Qur'an. I made a clarification and the author is not important for now.

There is just a NATURE but some people had the misconception that good act has a separate nature from an evil.

Every tangible thing is good. We qualify activities as either good or bad depending on the usage and the targeted result.

Actually, we are responsible for both the good and the bad usage. What good YOU have may be bad for the other and vice versa. I hope I'm making sense and if not please correct and elaborate. Thanks.

When we look at the world without bringing others into consideration, good may be highly relative but not when we look at the world as a whole.

There is general good. What do you say about JUSTICE?

unknownuser

Hi LT,

I say that Evil comes from in the way we exercise our God-given free will on this Earth...

What say you?

Yep! Thats what the test is all about.

Though we have God's soul within us, we also have a tendency to err if we r'nt mindful in our lives. So, the final choice to do good or evil is ours and that happens to be the test. The rightful/ mindful exercise of our free will.

Peace!

unknownuser

Peace,
Now just how do we know that? The Quran thrusts out both venues, a contradtiction. At one instance it mentions that both good and bad are from GOD and at another the good is from GOD and the bad is from you or what you sow.

lol

thanks for the laugh danish

but let me tell you why you made me laugh, well, you are raising an argument against the Quran but you pointed to the wrong person who is a christian, LOL

thanks again

unknownuser

Please don't tell me it is written in the Quran and the Quran is the Word of Allah, because I will easily refute that notion.

I want to see how easy for you to refute that notion, if you care to show me but in no masses, i prefer one point after another

we can also debate it if you like but only with rules and judges in place wink

unknownuser

First off, how do you know that it was "Allah" that corrected this notion? Please don't tell me it is written in the Quran and the Quran is the Word of Allah, because I will easily refute that notion. Second, if there is a 'single source for all activities (good or evil), then why the need to mention seperate "god of good" and "god of evil"? Are there two gods yet ONE NATURE or are there two natures and ONE GOD?

You were apparently pointing to what you consider to be a contradiction in the Qur'an. I made a clarification and the author is not important for now.
I was pointing to what you actually said and that was

Allah corrected this notion when He said that there is just a single source for all activities (good or evil).

And my inference was "how do you know that" that HE said this or that in reference to Quran.

There is just a NATURE but some people had the misconception that good act has a separate nature from an evil.

Every tangible thing is good. We qualify activities as either good or bad depending on the usage and the targeted result.

Agreed, And that is exactly what I was dealing with. A mix up in our understanding.

Actually, we are responsible for both the good and the bad usage. What good YOU have may be bad for the other and vice versa. I hope I'm making sense and if not please correct and elaborate. Thanks.

When we look at the world without bringing others into consideration, good may be highly relative but not when we look at the world as a whole.

There is general good. What do you say about JUSTICE?

JUSTICE is "blind" and the way I vision it in OUR current generation, is biased, political, financial strength, favouritism and religiously inclined, ofcourse not in definite terms and accuracy, but more or less given.

unknownuser

Peace,

I say that Evil comes from in the way we exercise our God-given free will on this Earth...

What say you?

I agree. God did not create evil. God created beings with free will and, in our disobedience to God, we create evil.

Now just how do we know that? The Quran thrusts out both venues, a contradtiction. At one instance it mentions that both good and bad are from GOD and at another the good is from GOD and the bad is from you or what you sow.

There are people who hold the notion that there is a god for good separate from the god that created evil. Allah corrected this notion when He said that there is just a single source for all activities (good or evil). There is one single NATURE.

Everything is good but misuse is another thing. We are responsible for the misuse.

For a prior discussion on this topic please see the following link

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3812

unknownuser

Please don't tell me it is written in the Quran and the Quran is the Word of Allah, because I will easily refute that notion.

I want to see how easy for you to refute that notion, if you care to show me but in no masses, i prefer one point after another

we can also debate it if you like but only with rules and judges in place wink

Here then, answer only one question below and refute the following links that are getting decomposed without being further excavated for analysis and validation

Question How do YOU know that the Quran that we have today, a book that was written 1400+ years ago by "MAN", is the exact Word of GOD providing evidence from beyond what is written in the book itself? If you bring about verses from within the book itself to support your preconceived notions written by "MAN", then you will fail miserably.

Now refute these links and I shall respond

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5177&start=25
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79504&highlight=#79504
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79403&highlight=#79403
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=78188&highlight=#78188

unknownuser

Please don't tell me it is written in the Quran and the Quran is the Word of Allah, because I will easily refute that notion.

I want to see how easy for you to refute that notion, if you care to show me but in no masses, i prefer one point after another

we can also debate it if you like but only with rules and judges in place wink

Here then, answer only one question below and refute the following links that are getting decomposed without being further excavated for analysis and validation

Question How do YOU know that the Quran that we have today, a book that was written 1400+ years ago by "MAN", is the exact Word of GOD providing evidence from beyond what is written in the book itself? If you bring about verses from within the book itself to support your preconceived notions written by "MAN", then you will fail miserably.

Now refute these links and I shall respond

http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5177&start=25
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79504&highlight=#79504
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79403&highlight=#79403
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=78188&highlight=#78188

hold your horses danish, i'm not going to look at these links, come on i do have a life, i want a new debate between the two of us with rules and judges, other than that (forget it bro), YOU ARE THE ONE WHO SAID HOW EASY IT IS FOR YOU TO REFITE THE NOTIONS AND I WANT TO SEE HOW EASY IT IS UNDER RULES AND JUDGES

now for YOUR quesion about how I know that it is the word of God?

again hold your horses bro, how do you know that it is not the words of Allah?

back to you

unknownuser

again hold your horses bro, how do you know that it is not the words of Allah?

Simple, by the question asked and refutation of links provided earler, all of which are based on Quran? Besides, please check out the topic I had stated on "Quran - the Word of GOD or MAN" in this section.

nadeem

Hi There!

To say that evil exists, one must conclude that the Creator of everything also created the evil, hence allowing for an evil attribute of the Creator.

Indeed. However, our conclusion still doesn't cover "what is good?".
Why is something good, and other things not-good? Are there any objectiv truths on this matter? Any thoughts?

To Brothers Danish and AhmedBahgat,

While you guys have every right to discuss whether or not the quran is from god, I cannot see the importance of making or even having the ability come to a conclusion.

Those who follow islam, are open minded, they do not care if it was God who told them to do good, or if it was a man, or even a talking-monkey for that sake, they only concentrate and focus in on the good-part and do it without hesitation. So if you both agree that quran is goodness, then there is no point in discussing where this good came from. It's good, what else do you need to know?

Now, if you disagree on whether it's good or not, then you should discuss, because the conclusions you will come to, will have a greater impact on your actions, than the current discussion.

Sorry if i offended you, it was not my intent.

Nadeem.

phoenix1

peace

evil comes from Satan. evil

unknownuser

again hold your horses bro, how do you know that it is not the words of Allah?

Simple, by the question asked and refutation of links provided earler, all of which are based on Quran? Besides, please check out the topic I had stated on "Quran - the Word of GOD or MAN" in this section.

well, how come you use the Quran to prove that it is not the word of God?

now my question is far ore simpler bro

you said it is very easy on you to prove that it is not the word of God, now i want you to stick to your words and show me how easy it is, i.e. no complications

just do it here again please if you care, just one verse at a time unless there is more than one related verses and you want to discuss it as a lot

now bear in mind that burden is also on you to prove to us who do you think the author of the Quran, an unknown author(s) can't be admissable bro

cheers

unknownuser

again hold your horses bro, how do you know that it is not the words of Allah?

Simple, by the question asked and refutation of links provided earler, all of which are based on Quran? Besides, please check out the topic I had stated on "Quran - the Word of GOD or MAN" in this section.

well, how come you use the Quran to prove that it is not the word of God?

now my question is far ore simpler bro

you said it is very easy on you to prove that it is not the word of God, now i want you to stick to your words and show me how easy it is, i.e. no complications

just do it here again please if you care, just one verse at a time unless there is more than one related verses and you want to discuss it as a lot

now bear in mind that burden is also on you to prove to us who do you think the author of the Quran, an unknown author(s) can't be admissable bro

cheers

Step at a time and lets not get carried away with questions upon questions. My previous post has not been answered at all (rules and judges as per your alleged admissions)??? Please stick to it before we can move any further. wink

unknownuser

Peace all,

How can someone debate about the authorship of a book without considering the contents of the book itself ?

For example someone might claim that a particular book was written by Charles Dickens, but if that particular book has the name of someone else as the author in it, or is written in a language that Dickens never spoke, then it could not have been written by Dickens. To find that out one has to consider the contents of the book.

The God calls those who deny His revelations deaf and dumb, believing in falsehood, rejecters, deviated, wicked, arrogant, losers, following their desires, and miserable. He says they will be punished with a painful retribution and will be dwellers of hell. One better be damn sure when one denies the authorship of the qur'aan by The God, otherwise one is taking a huge chance.

For the fate of the qur'aan rejecters, see the following link

Fate of the qur'aan rejecters

unknownuser

Peace all,

This is how the God tells us what evil is

1694 And do not use your oaths as a means of deception between you, that a foot will falter after it had been firm, and you will taste the evil of turning away from the path of God, and you will have a great retribution.

Evil is TURNING AWAY FROM THE PATH OF THE GOD, which is directly related to exercise of our free will, and therefore, comes from us.

2256 There is no compulsion in the system; the proper way has been made clear from the wrong way. Whoever rejects evil, and believes in God, then he has grasped the most solid branch that will never break. God is Hearer, Knower.

Here evil is compared with the wrong way and belief in The God compared with the proper way.

Evil = the wrong way = turning away from the path of The God, which comes from our free will.

unknownuser

Step at a time and lets not get carried away with questions upon questions. My previous post has not been answered at all (rules and judges as per your alleged admissions)??? Please stick to it before we can move any further. wink

bro you have not answered Al Salatu Al Wasta for months now, remember that one? when you said the words don't have the Al in them, well i told you mate that i expected a concession from you but you just turned a blind eye

why you think i will waste my time going through all these pages while i don't have trust in you that you are a man to accept the truth and admit it about the Al?

therefore if you are not that serious don't expect that i will be serious with you but i still respect you and like your style for sure,

let's look at what happened again

you raised a quran conradiction with a christian, and this does not make any sense to me
then you came and said that the Quran is not the words of Allah and you can refute the ones who say that it is, EASILY

now i asked you to do it with me and show me how easy it will be for you,

you failed to do this so far

you failed to prove that it is easy because you directed me to some used by date chat chat, that i'm not interested in really, i do have a life

that is my challenge to you, i don't really give a fluke if i prove to you that it is the words of Allah or not, but what i will give a fluke about is this

i will show everyone that what you said regarding ITS EASE is nothing but utter BS

this means a new start but under judges and rules we create together and agree on

i guess if it is easy as you say you should accept and not dodge, let's nominate the judges then we move on to the rules

I will select my two judges out of the following pool

Agentxxx
Kyle
Savage_Carrot
Joe
KGB

how about the pool of your two judges?

cheers

bmbmm

Salam,

Good question LT, need time to think about this. I think when every there is choice/freewill there is evil. But why God has made this possible? Also there is some similarity between chaos and evil, as evil can cause chaos, but chaos does not necessarly caused by evil. roll

unknownuser

Peace all. very good post nadeem.
Is evil from us or from god?... There is a very easy way to resolve the contradiction in 478 and 479....
We are god... D
Peace all.

oneway

Peace,

I say that Evil comes from in the way we exercise our God-given free will on this Earth...

What say you?

I agree. God did not create evil. God created beings with free will and, in our disobedience to God, we create evil.

Now just how do we know that? The Quran thrusts out both venues, a contradtiction. At one instance it mentions that both good and bad are from GOD and at another the good is from GOD and the bad is from you or what you sow.

Hi, Danish,

In case my avatar didn't give it away, I'm not Muslim, so others here will have to explain the Quran's stance on evil. Look's like Ahmed has already engaged you on that front smile

As discussed in another thread here recently, I think this depends entirely on your notion of what God is, which is a matter of faith. I believe God is all good, all powerful, and all knowing.

So, my view on the origin of evil is tied to those beliefs. One of the common arguments against God being all good and all powerful says, roughly, that God could not be all good if he allows evil and suffering or, if he is all good, he could not be all powerful because he does not eliminate evil and suffering.

So, the view that evil comes from our free willed disobedience to God is the general answer to that apparent contradiction. God created the possibility for evil by giving us choice, but we create the evil through the wrong choices.

Another reply in this thread said that evil is from Satan. I don't think this is exactly correct Like men, Satan chose to disobey God and even challenge God. That choice is the root of Satan's evil. That Satan exerts evil influences on men is no different from men exerting evil influences on one another Ultimately we choose which influence to follow - God's or some other. The choice is ours alone.

More generally, if God had created us without free will then there would be no concept of good and evil, right and wrong, nor even love, etc., because there would be no choices of any sort for us to make and there would be no possibility of influence of any kind from any source.

Finally, the original post in this thread includes a snippet from an article that draws a distinction between evil born of our free will and "natural evil", such as natural disasters. I don't buy into the concept of "natural evil". The universe operates by physical laws and sometimes those physical processes result in what we consider disasters and catastrophes, but these are not evil on their own. Evil can only result from them when mankind reacts to them wrongly or, perhaps, when we fail to recognize the power of those processes through arrogance or ignorance and, in so doing, invite destruction.

Beyond that, I think much of our spiritual growth, our ability to grow closer to God, hinges on our free will and our ability to draw lessons from the hurdles we face in life, whether they stem from man made evil or hardships related to handling our environment.

All of that depends on my belief in God and my belief about the nature of God. Now, if you're looking to debate the existence of God and/or the nature of God, that's a topic for another thread. smile

Regards,
oneway