Fate of the qur'aan rejecters
-
Peace Danish,
From what I gather from AhmedBahgat's earlier post is that "mu" is added before "KLB" to make it an adjective and then "een" is added to the end to signify that it is the plural form of the adjective. The "shadda" is added on the "L" when "KLB" is preceded by "mu".
All that does not mean that "KLB" with a shadda on the "L" part of "KLB", because of the "mu" before it, is the plural of the singular "KLB". The plural of "KLB" would be "KILAB".
I guess that is how the Arabic language works.
-
Peace Danish,
From what I gather from AhmedBahgat's earlier post is that "mu" is added before "KLB" to make it an adjective and then "een" is added to the end to signify that it is the plural form of the adjective. The "shadda" is added on the "L" when "KLB" is preceded by "mu".
All that does not mean that "KLB" with a shadda on the "L" part of "KLB", because of the "mu" before it, is the plural of the singular "KLB". The plural of "KLB" would be "KILAB".
I guess that is how the Arabic language works.
Exactly man
Salam
-
I believe brother Ahmed already answered this question of yours in his post
it is an adjective to describe the Jawareh, the Jawareh are like wild birds that can kill, like the eagles for example, and Jawareh is plural, that is why when we need an adjective to describe a plural we have to put the adjective in a plural form by adding the EEN at the end
The emphasis is all mine.
In his example "jawareh" is a plural meaning "wild birds that can kill" and by adding "een" to its end would make it "jawareheen" which now becomes an adjective meaning "like wild birds that can kill".
We were not talking about "jawareh" here but "kalb", "kilab" and "kallab"? See how the discussion gets sidetracked and vents out. The word "kilab" is no where to be found as he points it to become a plural of "kalb" and then later he changes it to "kallab". I am aware of the prefixes and suffixes but he seperated the "een" himself to make it seem entirely accurate. My question again is, what does "een" mean itself in Arabic. If it doesn't mean anything itself, then what does it mean when joined with kallab to become kallabeen (as in jawareheen).
How is it even possible for him to discuss matters by regulations of rules and judges as he vehemnetly confesses to abide by, when simple questions asked gets carried away and becomes a mountain out of a mole, and yet a child can understand. oops Beats the heck out of me. roll
i think you need some good arabic lessons lol
O btw, keep that to yourself since you needed it more than I did. Speaks volumes about a fluent native Arabic linguistic.
See Danish
debating someone like ya who posses 100% ignornace to the arabic language will be a total waste of my time
c u
-
Here it is mister danish,
The noun is marked for gender (masculine and feminine), number (singular, dual, and plural), case (nominative, accusative, and genitive), and definiteness. Masculine gender is unmarked, while feminine singular nouns are usually marked with the suffix '-a(t)'. (The t is not pronounced in phrase-final position.) Arabic nouns are divided into those that have a "sound plural" (regular plural), and those with "broken plural" (irregular plural). Nouns that have a sound plural, form it with a special suffix, whereas the broken plurals are formed according to several different patterns or templates, e.g. kalb "dog" > kilaab "dogs", kitaab "book" > kutub "books", baab "door" > 'abwaab "doors". Definiteness is indicated by the article 'al- while indefiniteness is usually indicated by the suffix -n, which follows any case suffixes. Hence, al-kitaabu "the book (nom.)", kitaabun "a book (nom.)", al-kitaaba "the book (accus.)", kitaaban "a book (accus.)". The modern Arabic dialects all lack case endings and the indefinite suffix, and typically only the most competent speakers master the rules governing their use in Standard Arabic.
Taken from
http//fizzylogic.com/users/bulbul/lmp/profiles/modern-standard-arabic.html
and another one
Wednesday
For today, we have the word kalb for dog (sm). The plural is kilaab. Dogs are used as guards or for hunting but not as pets. How do you say "Our dog is gray."?taken from
http//www.arabic2000.com/arabic/public/daily04.html
someone needs to burry his head in the sand for about two days, i guess
Salam
-
Peace brother tanveermd,
You wrote
619 Say "Which is the greatest testimony?" Say "God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Quran that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!" Say "I do not bear witness!" Say "He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!"
1037 This Quran could not have been produced without God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and to give detail to the Scripture in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10
So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
you wrote
Whoever rejects and denies The God's revelations is inventing a lie against The God. If we ponder and reflect upon its signs we will indeed know that it is from The God. His words affirm the truth and erase the falsehood
4224 Or do they Say "He has fabricated lies about God!" If God willed, He could have sealed your heart. And God erases the falsehood and affirms the truth with His words. He is fully aware of what is inside the chests.
HE in the above verse means THE PROPHET, the issues here is THOSE PEOPLE TO WHOM THE PROPHET DIRECTLY DELIVERED THE MESSAGE BUT THEY SAID HE HAS FABRICATED LIES ABOUT GOD.
To us the message has been delivered not directly by the prophet but through men/regimes. So we have to analyze and check its authenticity, and it is absolutely not the prophet whom I/we doubt, but the MEN/REGIMES through whom this message has been passed down to us.The rest of the verses you quoted talks about the punishment to those who deny the revelations of God so in my opinion ?FATE OF THE REVELATION REJECTORS should have been more appropriate as a title of this thread rather then FATE OF THE QURAN REJECTERS.
Peace.
-
Peace bro agentxxx,
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10
So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
I think you are confusing "the qur'aan" for the name of the book. Al-qur'aan is a common noun meaning "the reading" and is an attribute of the book and not its proper name.
Please see the following link for an explanation of that
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm
The reading (al-qur'aan) can refer to a part of the book from Allah as well as the whole of it.
The rest of the verses you quoted talks about the punishment to those who deny the revelations of God so in my opinion ?FATE OF THE REVELATION REJECTORS should have been more appropriate as a title of this thread rather then FATE OF THE QURAN REJECTERS.
Again you are confusing the reading (al-qur'aan) for the name of the book. As you must have noticed the heading of this thread says "the qur'aan" with a small q rather than the Qur'aan with a capital Q. The reading (al-qur'aan) comprises of revelations of Allah so both the phrases mean the same.
HE in the above verse means THE PROPHET, the issues here is THOSE PEOPLE TO WHOM THE PROPHET DIRECTLY DELIVERED THE MESSAGE BUT THEY SAID HE HAS FABRICATED LIES ABOUT GOD.
To us the message has been delivered not directly by the prophet but through men/regimes. So we have to analyze and check its authenticity, and it is absolutely not the prophet whom I/we doubt, but the MEN/REGIMES through whom this message has been passed down to us.The message that the prophet delivered is the reading (al-qur'aan) which is still available to us in its preserved original form. Allah has guarded the message Himself so we are getting the same message that the Prophet delivered directly to his colleagues.
159 Indeed it is We who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
Of course Allah does not ask us to blindly believe in everything but to use our mind, reason, and knowledge and to contemplate on the signs within and without in addition to the reading.
-
I think you are confusing "the qur'aan" for the name of the book. Al-qur'aan is a common noun meaning "the reading" and is an attribute of the book and not its proper name.
Peace bro
sorry mate, Quran does not mean The Reading, this is false 100%
it is a unique name like Injil, Torah and Zaboor
this thing the reading is a joke, because a child knows that a book is for reading
also reading in Arabic is called Qiraa not Quran
therefore for you to say it is common name that means the Reading is false indeed
also this capital and small Q does not exist neither it makes any sense
salam
-
peace bro tanveermd,
tanveermd- I think you are confusing "the qur'aan" for the name of the book. Al-qur'aan is a common noun meaning "the reading" and is an attribute of the book and not its proper name.
I agree with you that it means ?the reading? but the scripture has always been referred to as Quran.
tanveermd- The reading (al-qur'aan) can refer to a part of the book from Allah as well as the whole of it.
---[37
He it is Who has sent down to thee THE BOOK in it are VERSES basic or fundamental (of established meaning);
Huwal lazi anzala 'alaikal KITA_BA minhu A_YA_TUM muhkama_tun hunna ?.
*Parts of the book here are referred to as ayat verses
381Sa_d wal QUR A_Nizil dikir
38 1. Suad, I swear by the Quran, FULL OF ADMONITION.*does quran in the above verse means a part or the whole of it ?Or is it up to our own discretion?
tanveermd- Again you are confusing the reading (al-qur'aan) for the name of the book. As you must have noticed the heading of this thread says "the qur'aan" with a small q rather than the Qur'aan with a capital Q. The reading (al-qur'aan) comprises of revelations of Allah so both the phrases mean the same.
I am confused because there is no small q or capital Q in the Arabic? Why this innovation in English translation then? Why can?t we make things simple?
also its a very convenient interpretation to avoid certain questions , which are hard to answer.
Brother to correctly identify and make things clear for understanding we give different names/words to different things
Tree or tree is commonly understood as the whole of it
Branch or branch is understood as a part of tree or Tree but not the whole of Tree or tree. Why confuse things?tanveermd- The message that the prophet delivered is the reading (al-qur'aan) which is still available to us in its preserved original form. Allah has guarded the message Himself so we are getting the same message that the Prophet delivered directly to his colleagues.
bro please tell me,has Allah translated it into different languages or is it men? does Allah explains what certain terms/verses means or is it the men who are doing it on behalf of Allah? on internet, electronic media, print media, mosques every where brother its men who are doing it.
-
And certainly Allah made good to you His promise when you slew them by His permission, until when you became weak-hearted and disputed about the affair and disobeyed after He had shown you that which you loved; of you were some who desired this world and of you were some who desired the hereafter; then He turned you away from them that He might try you; and He has certainly pardoned you, and Allah is Gracious to the believers.
-
When you ran off precipitately and did not wait for any one, and the Messenger was calling you from your rear, so He gave you another sorrow instead of (your) sorrow, so that you might not grieve at what had escaped you, nor (at) what befell you; and Allah is aware of what you do.
please dont forget not all his colleagues desired the hereafter.
tanveermd- 159 Indeed it is we who have sent down the Reminder, and indeed it is We who will preserve it.
Check this link for a reality test
http//www.understanding-islam.com/related/history.aspPeace be upon you.
-
-
Peace,
While I do appreciate Ahmed's grammatical exegesis on the word kalb, the fact remains that my synopsis on M.Asadi?s methods to demonstrate and establish validity of Quran?s divinity is canny and redundant.
Check this link for a reality test
http//www.understanding-islam.com/related/history.aspPart of the challenge to Ahmed's unwarranted claim that Quran is the exact Word of GOD comes from that link and much from within the Quran itself.
These days, I find more people abusing the Quran by mere word and number games, tricks and mimicries, coding and decoding, GOD said this and GOD said that, bullying and tantrum filled slogans, challenges and warrants, and worst of all, making a mockery out the book (whom they allegedly yet fervently claim to be GOD?s Words) and as well as that of Allah. These mischievious and fiendish behaviors of religionists are no better than dirty politics and the poisonous pythons that roam the earth.
-
37 He it is Who has sent down to thee THE BOOK in it are VERSES basic or fundamental (of established meaning);
Huwal lazi anzala 'alaikal KITA_BA minhu A_YA_TUM muhkama_tun hunna ?.
*Parts of the book here are referred to as ayat verses
Allah uses words with precision. That is why here when referring to verses in it, Allah uses the word "al-kitab", the book, rather than the word "al-qur'aan", the reading.
381Sa_d wal QUR A_Nizil dikir
38 1. Suad, I swear by the Quran, FULL OF ADMONITION.*does quran in the above verse means a part or the whole of it ?Or is it up to our own discretion?
Your point for al-qur'aan (the reading) to have referred always to the whole book would have been valid if here Allah would have said "I swear by the qur'aan, IN IT VERSES full of admonition"
I am confused because there is no small q or capital Q in the Arabic? Why this innovation in English translation then? Why can?t we make things simple?
That is why we have to determine if it is a common noun or proper name from the CONTEXT of the word in the reading. Looks like you conveniently ignored my advice to read up the article I referenced. Here is the link again, just for the sake of finding the truth, please read it
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm
Please get rid of your excess baggage and preconceived ideas and pre-programmed behaviour and approach the qur'aan with an open mind, asking Allah for guidance.
The basic premise on which the history of the Qur?an stands is that the Qur?an has been preserved word for word ever since it was revealed to Muhammad.
I quoted this from the article you referred me to in the link. I never said that the qur'aan has been preserved word for word, did I ? That is obvious from the existence of the 10 different versions with differences of the dots, the diacritical marks, and some letters in a tiny percentage of words. The overall meaning, however, is the same of all those 10 versions. THE MESSAGE has been preserved exactly. Check out the following link
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf
bro please tell me,has Allah translated it into different languages or is it men? does Allah explains what certain terms/verses means
Yes Allah explains His verses Himself
7518 So when We relate it, you shall follow its revelation
7519 Upon us is the explaining of it -
Peace bro Ahmed, agentxxx,
Peace bro
sorry mate, Quran does not mean The Reading, this is false 100%
it is a unique name like Injil, Torah and Zaboor
this thing the reading is a joke, because a child knows that a book is for reading
also reading in Arabic is called Qiraa not Quran
therefore for you to say it is common name that means the Reading is false indeed
also this capital and small Q does not exist neither it makes any sense
salam
Brother Ahmed, I never forced you to accept my understanding; to you your understanding, to me mine.
Brother Ahmed and brother agentxxx, if you guys don't agree with my understanding then would you care to enlighten us with your understanding of the following ?
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10
So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
-
DUPLICATE POST
-
Peace bro Ahmed, agentxxx,
Peace bro
sorry mate, Quran does not mean The Reading, this is false 100%
it is a unique name like Injil, Torah and Zaboor
this thing the reading is a joke, because a child knows that a book is for reading
also reading in Arabic is called Qiraa not Quran
therefore for you to say it is common name that means the Reading is false indeed
also this capital and small Q does not exist neither it makes any sense
salam
Brother Ahmed, I never forced you to accept my understanding; to you your understanding, to me mine.
Brother Ahmed and brother agentxxx, if you guys don't agree with my understanding then would you care to exlighten us with your understanding of the following ?
Bro
please don't take my comment the wrong way
this is what I believe 100% is right regarding the name Quran, and I can backup this from the Quran, i'm not trying to mislead you or to show that i know better, this is not the case and Allah is my witness
regarding forcing opinions, or course you never did, neither anyone did on this web site, it just can't happen logically speaking
Salam
-
Peace,
While I do appreciate Ahmed's grammatical exegesis on the word kalb, the fact remains that my synopsis on M.Asadi?s methods to demonstrate and establish validity of Quran?s divinity is canny and redundant.
Thank bro
it is the truth anyway, and i'm sorry for being tough, but you are welcome to take your shots at me, i prefer it this way anyway lol
btw, i'm not a type of person who boast about m iracles in the Quran, i do it a lil, because i do believe they are true miracles, but i only discoivered these miracles after I submitted that the Quran is the true and exact and last message form our God, therefore i was not trying to support the dog issue posted by brother tanveermd, while I accept it from him as a sophistication sign in the Quran from the Author of the Quran, it will never be the reason for me to accept the Quran, i accept the Quran mainly to the Hikmah in it
Salam
-
Salaamun alaikum brother Ahmed, agent xxx, all,
please don't take my comment the wrong way
this is what I believe 100% is right regarding the name Quran, and I can backup this from the Quran, i'm not trying to mislead you or to show that i know better, this is not the case and Allah is my witness
regarding forcing opinions, or course you never did, neither anyone did on this web site, it just can't happen logically speaking
In Arabic language there is no capital letter to indicate a proper name. Whether a word is referring to a proper name is determined by the CONTEXT of usage of that word.
You will have a point if Allah had used the word "ism" with "al-quran" or referring to it, just like He uses "asma al-husna" for His names or "bismillah" for His name Allah.
I am curious, have you read the article at the following link, which explains in detail what I am summarising above ?
http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm
Brother Ahmed and brother agentxxx, if you guys don't agree with my understanding then would you care to enlighten us with your understanding of the following ?
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10
So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
The verses being referred to are
619 Say "Which is the greatest testimony?" Say "God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Quran that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!" Say "I do not bear witness!" Say "He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!"
1037 This Quran could not have been produced without God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and to give detail to the Scripture in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds
-
peace brother tanveermd,
you wrote
Brother Ahmed and brother agentxxx, if you guys don't agree with my understanding then would you care to enlighten us with your understanding of the following ?
agentxxx wrote
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
brother tanveer this was meant for you to explain
honestly i dont have a logical explanation and i am confused on this issue oops
maybe bro ahmed,bro idolfree1 or some other bro/sister can explain it?peace.
-
peace brother tanveermd,
you wrote
Brother Ahmed and brother agentxxx, if you guys don't agree with my understanding then would you care to enlighten us with your understanding of the following ?
agentxxx wrote
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
brother tanveer this was meant for you to explain )
honestly i dont have a logical explanation and i am confused on this issue oops
maybe bro ahmed,bro idolfree1 or some other bro/sister can explain it?peace.
Peace bro
Please consider that the order you see in the Quran today, was not the order of revelation, in fact sura 9 was lthe ast sura revealed, i'm not familiar with the order of revelation as it does not concern me but i will try to look at it but this requires a lot of Qiraa (Reading)
there is also somethin in the Quran that came to mind and i will try to qualify it then compile it later today
Salam mate
-
Peace agentxxx,
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10
So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
brother tanveer this was meant for you to explain
honestly i dont have a logical explanation and i am confused on this issue
maybe bro ahmed,bro idolfree1 or some other bro/sister can explain it?The verses being referred to are
619 Say "Which is the greatest testimony?" Say "God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Quran that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!" Say "I do not bear witness!" Say "He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!"
1037 This Quran could not have been produced without God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and to give detail to the Scripture in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds
Maybe it is confusing to you because you are trying to force your pre-programmed understanding of "al-qur'aan" = "proper name of the book" and thus only meaning the whole book.
If you translate "al-qur'aan" as "the reading", it could refer to either a part or the whole of the book in these verses, and the meaning would fit without confusion.
Also the translation of "al-qur'aan" as "the collection/compilation" would fit as it can refer to the collection/compilation at any stage.
-
Peace bro tmd,
You wrote
Maybe it is confusing to you because you are trying to force your pre-programmed understanding of "al-qur'aan" = "proper name of the book" and thus only meaning the whole book.
Yes you are right, I used to understand AL QURAN as proper name of THE BOOK And I think 99% of the people have the same understanding, simply type reading and search on the net and then type quran and search, you will see what i am trying to say.
I was familiar with the meaning ?quran=reading? too, but I never took it seriously till I read the threads by brother idolfree1.bro tanveermd-If you translate "al-qur'aan" as "the reading", it could refer to either a part or the whole of the book in these verses, and the meaning would fit without confusion.
Yes it does help but then something else raises the same question in mind?
15 1. Alif Lam Ra. These are the VERSES of the BOOK and (of) a QURAN/READING that makes (things) clear.
Alif La_m Ra_, tilka A_YA_Tul KITA_Bi wa QUR'A_Nim mubin(in).No confusion on this one as it says these are the verses of the book which are being sent down.
now look at these verses2951.- And is it not enough for them that WE HAVE SENT DOWN TO THEE THE BOOK which is rehearsed to them?
3 7. He it is WHO HAS SENT DOWN TO THEE THE BOOK In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book
- And THIS IS A BOOK WHICH WE HAVE SENT DOWN,
Book =written/Printed work which is bound together
again my curiosity forces me to ask WHAT BOOK?
bro tmd-Also the translation of "al-qur'aan" as "the collection/compilation" would fit as it can refer to the collection/compilation at any stage.
So the whole collection can also be called al quran ) .
peace.
-
Peace agentxxx,
again my curiosity forces me to ask WHAT BOOK?
Sometimes Allah mentions something in one part of al-qur'aan and explains it in another. To find out what Allah means, one has to go through the whole qur'aan.
151 A.L.R, these are the signs of the book, and a clear qur'aan/reading.
271 T'.S, these are the signs of the qur'aan/the reading and a clear book.
413 A book whose verses are detailed, an Arabic qur'aan/compilation for a people who know.
There you go, Allah tells you what book.
So the whole collection can also be called al quran .
Of course, al-qur'aan is one of the attributes of the book. I have no problem referring to the whole collection as al-qur'aan as long as the word is used as a common noun, just like the common noun "al-islam" is used to refer to the system/obligation/deen prescribed by Allah.