Fate of the qur'aan rejecters
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37 He it is Who has sent down to thee THE BOOK in it are VERSES basic or fundamental (of established meaning);
Huwal lazi anzala 'alaikal KITA_BA minhu A_YA_TUM muhkama_tun hunna ?.
*Parts of the book here are referred to as ayat verses
Allah uses words with precision. That is why here when referring to verses in it, Allah uses the word "al-kitab", the book, rather than the word "al-qur'aan", the reading.
381Sa_d wal QUR A_Nizil dikir
38 1. Suad, I swear by the Quran, FULL OF ADMONITION.*does quran in the above verse means a part or the whole of it ?Or is it up to our own discretion?
Your point for al-qur'aan (the reading) to have referred always to the whole book would have been valid if here Allah would have said "I swear by the qur'aan, IN IT VERSES full of admonition"
I am confused because there is no small q or capital Q in the Arabic? Why this innovation in English translation then? Why can?t we make things simple?
That is why we have to determine if it is a common noun or proper name from the CONTEXT of the word in the reading. Looks like you conveniently ignored my advice to read up the article I referenced. Here is the link again, just for the sake of finding the truth, please read it
http//www.free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm
Please get rid of your excess baggage and preconceived ideas and pre-programmed behaviour and approach the qur'aan with an open mind, asking Allah for guidance.
The basic premise on which the history of the Qur?an stands is that the Qur?an has been preserved word for word ever since it was revealed to Muhammad.
I quoted this from the article you referred me to in the link. I never said that the qur'aan has been preserved word for word, did I ? That is obvious from the existence of the 10 different versions with differences of the dots, the diacritical marks, and some letters in a tiny percentage of words. The overall meaning, however, is the same of all those 10 versions. THE MESSAGE has been preserved exactly. Check out the following link
http//free-minds.org/articles/science/WhichQuran.pdf
bro please tell me,has Allah translated it into different languages or is it men? does Allah explains what certain terms/verses means
Yes Allah explains His verses Himself
7518 So when We relate it, you shall follow its revelation
7519 Upon us is the explaining of it -
Peace bro Ahmed, agentxxx,
Peace bro
sorry mate, Quran does not mean The Reading, this is false 100%
it is a unique name like Injil, Torah and Zaboor
this thing the reading is a joke, because a child knows that a book is for reading
also reading in Arabic is called Qiraa not Quran
therefore for you to say it is common name that means the Reading is false indeed
also this capital and small Q does not exist neither it makes any sense
salam
Brother Ahmed, I never forced you to accept my understanding; to you your understanding, to me mine.
Brother Ahmed and brother agentxxx, if you guys don't agree with my understanding then would you care to enlighten us with your understanding of the following ?
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10
So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
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DUPLICATE POST
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Peace bro Ahmed, agentxxx,
Peace bro
sorry mate, Quran does not mean The Reading, this is false 100%
it is a unique name like Injil, Torah and Zaboor
this thing the reading is a joke, because a child knows that a book is for reading
also reading in Arabic is called Qiraa not Quran
therefore for you to say it is common name that means the Reading is false indeed
also this capital and small Q does not exist neither it makes any sense
salam
Brother Ahmed, I never forced you to accept my understanding; to you your understanding, to me mine.
Brother Ahmed and brother agentxxx, if you guys don't agree with my understanding then would you care to exlighten us with your understanding of the following ?
Bro
please don't take my comment the wrong way
this is what I believe 100% is right regarding the name Quran, and I can backup this from the Quran, i'm not trying to mislead you or to show that i know better, this is not the case and Allah is my witness
regarding forcing opinions, or course you never did, neither anyone did on this web site, it just can't happen logically speaking
Salam
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Peace,
While I do appreciate Ahmed's grammatical exegesis on the word kalb, the fact remains that my synopsis on M.Asadi?s methods to demonstrate and establish validity of Quran?s divinity is canny and redundant.
Thank bro
it is the truth anyway, and i'm sorry for being tough, but you are welcome to take your shots at me, i prefer it this way anyway lol
btw, i'm not a type of person who boast about m iracles in the Quran, i do it a lil, because i do believe they are true miracles, but i only discoivered these miracles after I submitted that the Quran is the true and exact and last message form our God, therefore i was not trying to support the dog issue posted by brother tanveermd, while I accept it from him as a sophistication sign in the Quran from the Author of the Quran, it will never be the reason for me to accept the Quran, i accept the Quran mainly to the Hikmah in it
Salam
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Salaamun alaikum brother Ahmed, agent xxx, all,
please don't take my comment the wrong way
this is what I believe 100% is right regarding the name Quran, and I can backup this from the Quran, i'm not trying to mislead you or to show that i know better, this is not the case and Allah is my witness
regarding forcing opinions, or course you never did, neither anyone did on this web site, it just can't happen logically speaking
In Arabic language there is no capital letter to indicate a proper name. Whether a word is referring to a proper name is determined by the CONTEXT of usage of that word.
You will have a point if Allah had used the word "ism" with "al-quran" or referring to it, just like He uses "asma al-husna" for His names or "bismillah" for His name Allah.
I am curious, have you read the article at the following link, which explains in detail what I am summarising above ?
http//free-minds.org/articles/gods_system/name.htm
Brother Ahmed and brother agentxxx, if you guys don't agree with my understanding then would you care to enlighten us with your understanding of the following ?
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10
So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
The verses being referred to are
619 Say "Which is the greatest testimony?" Say "God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Quran that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!" Say "I do not bear witness!" Say "He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!"
1037 This Quran could not have been produced without God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and to give detail to the Scripture in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds
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peace brother tanveermd,
you wrote
Brother Ahmed and brother agentxxx, if you guys don't agree with my understanding then would you care to enlighten us with your understanding of the following ?
agentxxx wrote
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
brother tanveer this was meant for you to explain
honestly i dont have a logical explanation and i am confused on this issue oops
maybe bro ahmed,bro idolfree1 or some other bro/sister can explain it?peace.
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peace brother tanveermd,
you wrote
Brother Ahmed and brother agentxxx, if you guys don't agree with my understanding then would you care to enlighten us with your understanding of the following ?
agentxxx wrote
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
brother tanveer this was meant for you to explain )
honestly i dont have a logical explanation and i am confused on this issue oops
maybe bro ahmed,bro idolfree1 or some other bro/sister can explain it?peace.
Peace bro
Please consider that the order you see in the Quran today, was not the order of revelation, in fact sura 9 was lthe ast sura revealed, i'm not familiar with the order of revelation as it does not concern me but i will try to look at it but this requires a lot of Qiraa (Reading)
there is also somethin in the Quran that came to mind and i will try to qualify it then compile it later today
Salam mate
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Peace agentxxx,
QURAN HAS 114 CHAPTERS , THE ABOVE VERSES ARE FROM CHAPTER 6 AND 10 WHICH MEANS THAT STILL 108 SURAS OR CHAPTERS WERE YET/DUE TO BE REVEALED AFTER SURA 6, AND 104 SURAS WERE DUE AFTER SURA 10
So would you kindly explain what QURAN means in the above verses? Surely it wouldn?t have meant quran the book as logically it could not have been compiled/collected as a book at the time these verses were revealed.
brother tanveer this was meant for you to explain
honestly i dont have a logical explanation and i am confused on this issue
maybe bro ahmed,bro idolfree1 or some other bro/sister can explain it?The verses being referred to are
619 Say "Which is the greatest testimony?" Say "God is witness between me and you, and He has inspired to me this Quran that I may warn you with it and whomever it reaches, that you bear witness that along with God are other gods!" Say "I do not bear witness!" Say "He is only One god, and I am innocent of what you set up!"
1037 This Quran could not have been produced without God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and to give detail to the Scripture in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds
Maybe it is confusing to you because you are trying to force your pre-programmed understanding of "al-qur'aan" = "proper name of the book" and thus only meaning the whole book.
If you translate "al-qur'aan" as "the reading", it could refer to either a part or the whole of the book in these verses, and the meaning would fit without confusion.
Also the translation of "al-qur'aan" as "the collection/compilation" would fit as it can refer to the collection/compilation at any stage.
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Peace bro tmd,
You wrote
Maybe it is confusing to you because you are trying to force your pre-programmed understanding of "al-qur'aan" = "proper name of the book" and thus only meaning the whole book.
Yes you are right, I used to understand AL QURAN as proper name of THE BOOK And I think 99% of the people have the same understanding, simply type reading and search on the net and then type quran and search, you will see what i am trying to say.
I was familiar with the meaning ?quran=reading? too, but I never took it seriously till I read the threads by brother idolfree1.bro tanveermd-If you translate "al-qur'aan" as "the reading", it could refer to either a part or the whole of the book in these verses, and the meaning would fit without confusion.
Yes it does help but then something else raises the same question in mind?
15 1. Alif Lam Ra. These are the VERSES of the BOOK and (of) a QURAN/READING that makes (things) clear.
Alif La_m Ra_, tilka A_YA_Tul KITA_Bi wa QUR'A_Nim mubin(in).No confusion on this one as it says these are the verses of the book which are being sent down.
now look at these verses2951.- And is it not enough for them that WE HAVE SENT DOWN TO THEE THE BOOK which is rehearsed to them?
3 7. He it is WHO HAS SENT DOWN TO THEE THE BOOK In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book
- And THIS IS A BOOK WHICH WE HAVE SENT DOWN,
Book =written/Printed work which is bound together
again my curiosity forces me to ask WHAT BOOK?
bro tmd-Also the translation of "al-qur'aan" as "the collection/compilation" would fit as it can refer to the collection/compilation at any stage.
So the whole collection can also be called al quran ) .
peace.
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Peace agentxxx,
again my curiosity forces me to ask WHAT BOOK?
Sometimes Allah mentions something in one part of al-qur'aan and explains it in another. To find out what Allah means, one has to go through the whole qur'aan.
151 A.L.R, these are the signs of the book, and a clear qur'aan/reading.
271 T'.S, these are the signs of the qur'aan/the reading and a clear book.
413 A book whose verses are detailed, an Arabic qur'aan/compilation for a people who know.
There you go, Allah tells you what book.
So the whole collection can also be called al quran .
Of course, al-qur'aan is one of the attributes of the book. I have no problem referring to the whole collection as al-qur'aan as long as the word is used as a common noun, just like the common noun "al-islam" is used to refer to the system/obligation/deen prescribed by Allah.
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peace tanveermd,
you wrote
Sometimes Allah mentions something in one part of al-qur'aan and explains it in another. To find out what Allah means, one has to go through the whole qur'aan.
151 A.L.R, these are the signs of the book, and a clear qur'aan/reading.
271 T'.S, these are the signs of the qur'aan/the reading and a clear book.
413 A book whose verses are detailed, an Arabic qur'aan/compilation for a people who know.brother tanveer Your analysis doesn?t seem to match the verses you quoted?
bro tmd-There you go, Allah tells you what book.
) ok brother let me ask a simple question, was the reading/quran given to the prophet as a book/written /bound together? or was it men who wrote and bound it together as a book?
peace.
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Peace agentxxx,
Please refer to the following link for an article that answers your question in detail
http//www.free-minds.org/books/wadud_05.htm
Both qur'aan and kitab when referring to each other, are attributes of THE MESSAGE or THE TRUTH sent by Allah to mankind.
By the way, kitab as used in al-qur'aan often refers to al-qur'aan but does not always refer to al-qur'aan. Kitab does not always mean a written bound book. The context lets us know what the usage is.
For example, in the following verses "kitab" does not refer to qur'aan or a written, bound book
2775 And there is not a thing hidden in the heavens or the Earth, but is in a clear kitab.
659 And with Him are the keys to the unseen, none know them except He. And He knows what is in the land and in the sea; and not a leaf falls except with His knowledge; nor a seed in the darkness of the Earth; nor anything moist or anything dry; all is in a clear kitab.
1061 Nothing is hidden from your Lord, not even an atoms weight on Earth or in the heavens, nor smaller than that nor larger, but is in a clear kitab.
116 And there is not a creature on Earth except that its provision is due from God. And He knows where it dwells and where it hides. All is in a clear kitab.
Another example is an e-book that one can download from the internet. It is still called a book even though it doesn't have pages one can feel and it is not bound.
Maybe Allah has preserved some of His words in a holographic virtual book of some sort, like "lawhin mahfoozin"
8521 No, it is a glorious qur'aan.
8522 In a tablet, preserved.Maybe when Allah talks about sending down a book (692), He means sending down that virtual book to the prophet, which was then written down and bound in the form of a physical book, just like downloading a virtual book from Allah's website and then printing it in our printer !! )
For some discussions on kitab and qur'aan in this forum please see the following links
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3650
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2670
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4565 -
Salam,
As far as I know, nowhere in Al Quran God tells the Nasranis and Yahudis to believe in and uphold Al Quran. He only criticizes their false concept of God which leads to idolatry (Due to misunderstanding of the Torah and Injil).
Anyone thinks I'm wrong? Please enlighten me wink
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Peace jankren,
you wrote
As far as I know, nowhere in Al Quran God tells the Nasranis and Yahudis to believe in and uphold Al Quran. He only criticizes their false concept of God which leads to idolatry (Due to misunderstanding of the Torah and Injil).
I agree with you bro
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And We sent after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was before him of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel in which was guidance and light, and verifying what was before it of Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for those who guard (against evil).
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AND THE FOLLOWERS OF THE INJEEL SHOULD HAVE JUDGED BY WHAT ALLAH REVEALED IN IT; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.
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And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you; FOR EVERY ONE OF YOU DID WE APPOINT A LAW AND A WAY, and if Allah had pleased He would have made you (all) a single people, but that He might try you in what He gave you, THEREFORE STRIVE WITH ONE ANOTHER TO HASTEN TO VIRTUOUS DEEDS; to Allah is your return, of all (of you), so He will let you know that in which you differed;
peace.
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Peace jankren. Very good point you make. Why should christians and jews follow an arabic version(similiar.) of their own book? Especially when the book itself(quran.) says to keep upholding the true message of their own scriptures.What does the quran have that is new or different to what the bible or torah offers?
Peace all. -
Peace jankren. Very good point you make. Why should christians and jews follow an arabic version(similiar.) of their own book? Especially when the book itself(quran.) says to keep upholding the true message of their own scriptures.What does the quran have that is new or different to what the bible or torah offers?
peace enquirer and all.
the Koran does not , at any point , even hint about following any other book besides itself . the taurah and injeel mentioned in the koran are not the Torah and Gospel of the jews and christians .taurah and injeel are aspects of the the Book(Koran) .
the Koran is the book which was revealed to the prophets
2213 Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Book with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed...
so again, no need for any other books .
peace.
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Peace dabaari,
My point of view is quite different than yours.
I believe that GOD?s message is neither restricted to arabic language nor to book of Quran ( which I read every night).
I believe that every single soul that comes into this world is created by HIM and before HIS WATCHFULL EYES IS BORN TO THIS WORLD. . So every single American, Japanese, Chinese, Eskimo,...is made by HIM as a unique individual. . All these people have the GIFT of GOD in their soul and can become a graciouse human being without ever hearing about Quran. They just need to become straightforward from inside and GOD will shower them by HIS guidance.
peace,
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Peace jankren. Very good point you make. Why should christians and jews follow an arabic version(similiar.) of their own book? Especially when the book itself(quran.) says to keep upholding the true message of their own scriptures.What does the quran have that is new or different to what the bible or torah offers?
peace enquirer and all.
the Koran does not , at any point , even hint about following any other book besides itself . the taurah and injeel mentioned in the koran are not the Torah and Gospel of the jews and christians .taurah and injeel are aspects of the the Book(Koran) .
the Koran is the book which was revealed to the prophets
2213 Mankind were one community, and Allah sent (unto them) prophets as bearers of good tidings and as warners, and revealed therewith the Book with the truth that it might judge between mankind concerning that wherein they differed...
so again, no need for any other books .
peace.
Peace
Darbaari, I am inclined to agree with you since that makes most sense. But I wonder, how does what you said relate to the following verse
The people of the Gospel shall rule in accordance with GOD's revelations therein. Those who do not rule in accordance with GOD's revelations are the wicked. 547
I'd like to hear your thoughts.
Peace.