Conclusive proof: THE QUR'AAN IS THE WORD OF ALLAH
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Peace bro tanveermd.
We cannot rely on unverifiable hearsays/rumors/conjectures/fabrications for the understanding of the truth. The correct understanding of the meaning of the relevant verses in this scientific matter should come from other qur'aanic verses, the proven scientific facts and by using our own minds, reason, and knowledge. One does not need any imams, or scholars of islam to understand the word of Allah. It is Allah who explains his signs through his signs and our minds, reason, and knowledge.
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It is NOTHING BUT A REMINDER TO THE NATIONS;
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And We have not taught him poetry, nor is it meet for him; IT IS NOTHING BUT A REMINDER AND A PLAIN QURAN,
11 2. That you shall not serve (any) but Allah; SURELY I AM A WARNER FOR YOU FROM HIM and A GIVER OF GOOD NEWS,
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And they say Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord? Say The signs are only with Allah, and I AM ONLY A PLAIN WARNER.
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And We send not messengers but AS ANNOUNCERS OF GOOD NEWS and GIVERS OF WARNING, then whoever believes and acts aright, they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve.
I think it only claims to be a book of ethics and have nothing to do with scientific facts.
peace.
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Hello Public
Just a side note
Regarding Mohammad uncle, Abu Lahab
the logical point is this
He died a kafir rejecting Allah and his message, therefore his severe punishment is earned, this verse was revealed years before he died so he had a chance to repent even by faking it to prove the Quran is wrong and he never did despite his hatred to the message
the ones who say they haven't been to hell to see if he is there are been very sarcastic indeed, well they should not even imagine themself there i guess
Salam
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He died a kafir rejecting Allah and his message, therefore his severe punishment is earned, this verse was revealed years before he died so he had a chance to repent even by faking it to prove the Quran is wrong and he never did despite his hatred to the message
I understand this point fully. But do you understand that i could easily point out 20 people i know wouldnt repent anything, even if their life depended on it.
For an evidence to be valid, we have to be able to confirm the outcome. If we cant, its not evidence. And as prophecy, this is weak at best.
peace
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Peace Magi,
Thanks for sharing your views.
My post clearly talked about THE MESSAGE being preserved, not each word
ok, then we agree. no need to debate any further then.
I guess we are in agreement then. End of discussion D
Just a few comments
I dont think the Quran is a book. It is the name of the revelation all prophets and messengers got, but not all their books was called Quran. IT is a revelation that ANYONE can obtain if they truely want to, anywhere, anytime. Observation alone should tell you this.
I think "al-kitab" is the one sent to all the prophets and "al-qur'aan" was sent by Allah to Prophet Muhammad. Can you provide any concrete evidence to back up what you are saying here ?
The verda is some 4000 years older than the Quran and contains pretty much the same astrological ideas. alltho formulated in a different way. embryo develpment etc. All things that can easily be interpretated out of the text. The thing is, God is not giving us the technical side of an embryo, what we can do is see that the details given resemble the process somewhat. But i would claim that this could be found out without God. The western world did by mere observation, why would people back then have been different. Because they were stupid ?
I am not saying that scientific facts cannot be discovered without the qur'aan. What I am saying is that the presence of certain scientific facts in the qur'aan which were 1000 years ahead of their time and NONE of them proven incorrect or contradictory to the recently discovered known and proven facts of science is miraculous and a proof of the divine origin of the qur'aan.
I would say honorable scribes, people of profound spiritual insight, including a man, we call our prophet.
Any concrete evidence to support your opinion/conjecture ? Remember I asked who AUTHORED the qur'aan, not who actually wrote it down on a parchment.
well that is swell. my point however was that many of these facts was in fact NOT discovered 1000's of years later, but where allready knowledge in circulation. Even tribes in Africa knew that the earth was round, and the sun was a star in the middle of several planets cirkeling it. The arabs however thought there were only 7 planets. (7 heavens?). In relegious terminology, heavens often reffered to the visible universe and the things in it observable, like 7 planets.
Any concrete evidence to back up your claim that some scientific facts like for example, the facts about the big bang origin of the universe, the gaseous origin of universe, the expanding universe and its eventual collapse, death of stars, existence of black holes, movement of the sun in an orbit around the center of the galaxy, the string theory, existence of particles smaller than atoms, microscopic details of human embryology, the invisible barrier between seas, were already known at the time of revelation of the qur'aan, or you just want us to believe in conjectures ?
In the qur'aan, Allah uses a separate word for planet, which is "kaukab", not "assamaa".
The great thing about arabic, is that most things can mean just about anything you want to, given the nature of the language. So, all of this rely heavily on interpretation from the individual.
e.g
are we to cut of hands, or mark hands, or remove from hands? Why is this clear arabic speak so hard to understand!The underlined part of your quote is completely false that most words can mean ANYTHING you want to. That is preposterous !
It is very clear to me what the qur'aan means in 538. Its none of what you are saying
538 The male thief, and the female thief, you shall cut from their resources as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Noble, Wise.
In Arabic language just like any other language, some words can have multiple meanings, and the meaning in a particular sentence is determined by the context. The word "yad" can mean both "hand" and "resource" and in this verse according to the context it clearly means resource.
What is confusing about that ?
can you prove this? that it happened a few years after the revelation of that verse (and thus discrediting aymans idea of where the scripture originated). Here is a prediction. Usa is going to win the war in afghanistan in a few more years. that is what i said when they attacked. am i a prophet now?
When the Romans were defeated has nothing to do with where the qur'aan originated.
Predicting that a super power will be DEFEATED in a few years is much more difficult than predicting that a super power will WIN. Your analogy is inappropriate and flawed. If you predict that USA will be defeated in a few years by Afghanistan and then it happens, that will be miraculous.
The typos you made changed the meaning to totally opposite ! Don't you ever misquote me again thereby falsely attributing to me what I did not say.
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Peace agentxxx,
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It is NOTHING BUT A REMINDER TO THE NATIONS;
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And We have not taught him poetry, nor is it meet for him; IT IS NOTHING BUT A REMINDER AND A PLAIN QURAN,
11 2. That you shall not serve (any) but Allah; SURELY I AM A WARNER FOR YOU FROM HIM and A GIVER OF GOOD NEWS,
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And they say Why are not signs sent down upon him from his Lord? Say The signs are only with Allah, and I AM ONLY A PLAIN WARNER.
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And We send not messengers but AS ANNOUNCERS OF GOOD NEWS and GIVERS OF WARNING, then whoever believes and acts aright, they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve.
I think it only claims to be a book of ethics and have nothing to do with scientific facts.
The scientific facts are the signs which we can use to verify and confirm THE TRUTH BEING FROM OUR LORD.
Yes, the qur'aan is nothing but a reminder, and part of what it reminds us is to use our mind, reason, and knowledge and contemplate on the signs within and without to search for the truth.
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Peace
I guess we are in agreement then. End of discussion
I think "al-kitab" is the one sent to all the prophets and "al-qur'aan" was sent by Allah to Prophet Muhammad. Can you provide any concrete evidence to back up what you are saying here ?
My understanding is that al kitab is the universal book. Or the/a book that makes us understand Quran, (the message). Yes i can but it is a lengthy debate that has been taken ad naeseum other places on this board. But naturally im open to suggestions. Im looking for truth, not for being right.
I am not saying that scientific facts cannot be discovered without the qur'aan. What I am saying is that the presence of certain scientific facts in the qur'aan which were 1000 years ahead of their time and NONE of them proven incorrect or contradictory to the recently discovered known and proven facts of science is miraculous and a proof of the divine origin of the qur'aan.
An im still telling you that many of these things was knowledge thousands of years before the book was revealed. So, the fact that they are in there proves absolutely nothing. When the world went through the dark ages, something happened to everybodys knowledge. YOu werent allowed to do too much thinking of your own, it could cost you, your life. So suddenly, because we deprived ourself of knowledge we had. and rediscover it, we think we never had it before.
Any concrete evidence to support your opinion/conjecture ? Remember I asked who AUTHORED the qur'aan, not who actually wrote it down on a parchment.
God, ofcourse. Were not debating the message or trueness of it. merely the words on paper, and evidence i find suspicieus regarding The Divine. But now that i undertand your view point, i know that were talking about the same thing in different words. A stupid analogy is
Its like water in the tap. Its the water that is important, not the tap, and in fact, the tap might be contageous with bacteria. However, just because you dont have a tap, does not mean you cant have water, you properbly just have to walk to get it.
Quran = easyer way to water
Less or no Quran = more smacks from God when you fuck up, harder and to me more valuable lessons learned.Any concrete evidence to back up your claim that some scientific facts like for example, the facts about the big bang origin of the universe, the gaseous origin of universe, the expanding universe and its eventual collapse, death of stars, existence of black holes, movement of the sun in an orbit around the center of the galaxy, the string theory, existence of particles smaller than atoms, microscopic details of human embryology, the invisible barrier between seas, were already known at the time of revelation of the qur'aan, or you just want us to believe in conjectures ?
no not at all, but youre asking me for like a single or a few sources. there are no such thing. And most of the stuff you outline is nothing but overinterpretation as far as im concerned. That said. Big bang as a fact, is slowly falling apart, but im not concluding anything untill i see more of it. Look into the zulu tribe of africa. thousands of years ago they knew the world was round (as seen in their art), and for some strange reason, they have tablets of the weight of planetary bodies. In india, they had the power to weld better and with something more solid than we have ever seen before. Im talking about the infamed pilar that doesn rust =/
And the list goes on. Many people call this stuff, out of place artifacts/knowledge, i think the only thing out of place after having seen in the 100's of these strange things, is...that we belive we did not have these knowledges at some point before. altso in written form.If you ask zacharia sitchin and his peers. THe cunaiform include 100% DNA structuresetc etc.. Im not sure, i dont know cunaiform well enough, but i have sen their argumentation, and its pretty good, entertaining, and as fancyfull as the above suggestion you make to science to be found in the QURAN. Please admit that most of it is fancyfull interpretation.
You see, what you are doing at the same time is green lighting science, or rather, the part of science that confirm your book of choice.M theory (former known as superstrings)was dropped as a hot potato, and mutated into several branches. This is nothing. but speculation based on mathematical calculations. So if thats found in the Quran...yay!? I
The great thing about arabic, is that most things can mean just about anything you want to, given the nature of the language. So, all of this rely heavily on interpretation from the individual.
e.g
are we to cut of hands, or mark hands, or remove from hands? Why is this clear arabic speak so hard to understand!The underlined part of your quote is completely false that most words can mean ANYTHING you want to. That is preposterous !
It is very clear to me what the qur'aan means in 538. Its none of what you are saying
538 The male thief, and the female thief, you shall cut from their resources as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as a deterrent from God. God is Noble, Wise.
In Arabic language just like any other language, some words can have multiple meanings, and the meaning in a particular sentence is determined by the context. The word "yad" can mean both "hand" and "resource" and in this verse according to the context it clearly means resource.
What is confusing about that ?
apparently a whole lot. as nobody not even Quran aloners can get to agree on it. thus, as clear as it is to you, it is your own personal interpretation, thus my point stands. As someone else will read something else in there.
When the Romans were defeated has nothing to do with where the qur'aan originated.
Predicting that a super power will be DEFEATED in a few years is much more difficult than predicting that a super power will WIN. Your analogy is inappropriate and flawed. If you predict that USA will be defeated in a few years by Afghanistan and then it happens, that will be miraculous.
NO it is not inapropriate, because as i told you, the roman empire (as you now indrectly suggest that it is about) is alive and stronger than ever. Altso in that area. IF were a talking about it as a local conflict, its not very impressive, because we dont know what knowledge they had. Several people said when US entered vietnam (a supposedly cakewalk like Iraq) that it would be suicide. It showed to be suicide, are they prophets and Godsend too then?
The typos you made changed the meaning to totally opposite !
BUt the problem is still there nevertheless in the vers in its correct version. There is no verse in all the book that even remotely suggest the error i made, thus isnt it obvious what verse i was talking about. be honest
Don't you ever misquote me again thereby falsely attributing to me what I did not say.
I dont undertand? Did i do that? if so i am sorry.
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Peace Magi,
My understanding is that al kitab is the universal book. Or the/a book that makes us understand Quran, (the message). Yes i can but it is a lengthy debate that has been taken ad naeseum other places on this board. But naturally im open to suggestions. Im looking for truth, not for being right.
I think that the qur'aan (the message) makes us understand al-kitab, not the other way around
1037 This Quran could not have been produced without God, but it is to authenticate what is already present, and to give detail to the Scripture in which there is no doubt, from the Lord of the worlds.
apparently a whole lot. as nobody not even Quran aloners can get to agree on it. thus, as clear as it is to you, it is your own personal interpretation, thus my point stands. As someone else will read something else in there.
I am not a qur'aan aloner but a God aloner. The qur'aan is a unique book of guidance and it itself asks us to use our minds, reason, and knowledge and to contemplate on the signs within and without, including our bodies, the universe around us, archeological findings etc.
An im still telling you that many of these things was knowledge thousands of years before the book was revealed.
Still no concrete evidence/reference. How can you say this without any concrete evidence to back you up ? Sounds like conjecture to me !
God, ofcourse.
I agree. That was the core point of this discussion.
Were not debating the message or trueness of it. merely the words on paper, and evidence i find suspicieus regarding The Divine.
I think you are still misunderstanding me. I am not discussing the exact words on paper but the message or trueness of it. If the message was authored by Allah then it has to be true.
Big bang as a fact, is slowly falling apart, but im not concluding anything untill i see more of it. Look into the zulu tribe of africa. thousands of years ago they knew the world was round (as seen in their art), and for some strange reason, they have tablets of the weight of planetary bodies. In india, they had the power to weld better and with something more solid than we have ever seen before. Im talking about the infamed pilar that doesn rust =/
And the list goes on. Many people call this stuff, out of place artifacts/knowledge, i think the only thing out of place after having seen in the 100's of these strange things, is...that we belive we did not have these knowledges at some point before. altso in written form.References please (from where you get this information).
Also provide me concrete references from where you get the idea that the particular scientific facts I mentioned in my last post were already known at the time of revelation of the qur'aan.
Several people said when US entered vietnam (a supposedly cakewalk like Iraq) that it would be suicide. It showed to be suicide, are they prophets and Godsend too then?
They thought it might be suicide but did not state it as a FACT. If they did state it as a fact then please give me the references/evidence.
By misquoting I meant you saying that I did something whereas actually I didn't. Accuse might have been a better word than misquote. For example I didn't judge you but made a conditional statement and you claimed that I judged you. The verses I quoted were applicable only IF the conditional statement was true, which I found was not true.
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peace
I am not a qur'aan aloner but a God aloner. The qur'aan is a unique book of guidance and it itself asks us to use our minds, reason, and knowledge and to contemplate on the signs within and without, including our bodies, the universe around us, archeological findings etc.
im not really sure anymore what we are debating because it would seem that at the core of things we are in 100% agreement with eachother.
Still no concrete evidence/reference. How can you say this without any concrete evidence to back you up ? Sounds like conjecture to me !
I gave you a clue brother. OUT OF PLACE/TIME ARTIFACTS!!! THere is so much data, that to say, go look in this book is ridiculous, because no collected work has been made on the subject. But you realise that youre indirectly calling me a liar. Its not my duty to show you what i have allready learned. I have showed you a direction, wich would be my responsability in this regard.
I think you are still misunderstanding me. I am not discussing the exact words on paper but the message or trueness of it. If the message was authored by Allah then it has to be true.
Hmm...Well we both agree that the message is true, and i think i have to go along with your explanation that i have it the wrong way around. However, i had the words mixed up, my understanding of it is basically the same as yours. Quran, al kitab.
My main point being. There is not a guaranteed protection of the meduim, the book, there is of what its containing. Even if perverts changed every single word in the whole scripture, any honest searchin belivever would still "get the point". With our without dubvious "evidence" from a science we know change face all the time. i mean we blame science when it disagree with us for changing all the time, but when it confirm stuff we can INTERPRETATE out of our books with out current understanding. Suddenly science is valid as evidence.
This is why im saying. TO hell with what science says if it is of no practical use for me. The evidence of the truthfullness of the message must be something else. I have experienced a drastic change in character in just months, after i released of all my idols altso the book wich i idolised myself, i nearly gave up faith. And there crawling on my knees i realised that i was completely missing the point by continously searching the book for answers. All it does is point in directions, the work is my own to do. As far as im concerned. the book we are debating regardless of name, does not contain a single answer. And yet, it is another key to every single answer you ever need to understand the things around you.
If you want to take these interpretations that we talk about, for evidence. Thats good, that would mean that its doing its thing. You think its evidence, ergo, its evidence, as its leading you to the message. For me personally its other stuff that does it, a more practical experience based approach you might call it.
Also provide me concrete references from where you get the idea that the particular scientific facts I mentioned in my last post were already known at the time of revelation of the qur'aan.
Take a look at some of Aymans articles, i find them fascinating. He ackonwledge e.g that the neabeteans was expert astrologers. If thats the case. They too would have known about the stellar bodies of movemnt, as did everybody at the time. Whole relegions is based in these planets and their paths.
They thought it might be suicide but did not state it as a FACT. If they did state it as a fact then please give me the references/evidence.
please hand me the evidence that MOhammads uncle is in hell. Here on earth such a prophecy is not worth the paper its written on obviously. And as such, purely logical thinking forbids me to acknowledge this. its either something i cannot understand entirely, the example means something else than it says, or...its not part of the message in total, and does in no way affect my salvation if i belive in it or not.
The message is perfect, but is the book? I know the book says its perfect, but so does laveys book, and i dont think thats perfect, In fact, i find his books message repulsive, regardless of the fact that it is well written, in a strong language and well articulated. Nostradamus work, altso can be said as having prophecy fullfilled,or rather so somone interpretate it to be. Is his message perfect. there isnt really any is there, but is his work technically was flawless. Leaernado da vinci etc. etc..
Many people have written books next to flawless, many have prophecised and had it come true (if you interpretate it that way). So, all we can judge on, is the message it conveys. And i think this is our only seperation in mindset.
Finally, I am humbled by my error towards you, please accept my sincere appology i had no intention of hurting your feelings.
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Peace tanveermd,
tanveermd- The scientific facts are the signs which we can use to verify and confirm THE TRUTH BEING FROM OUR LORD.
Bro what scientific facts as signs were there for those who too believed, it is a truth from our lord?
It is the code of ethics that makes quran a wonderful book and not some ambiguous verses/references. And Frankly I don?t need any confirmation regarding honesty, mercy, charity, justice, peace, tolerance, equality, love etc because I know these are the truth from our lord, no scientific facts as signs are required to believe in them.
3955- AND FOLLOW THE BEST THAT HAS BEEN REVEALED TO YOU FROM YOUR LORD before there comes to you the punishment all of a sudden while you do not even perceive;
My understanding regarding THIS BEST THAT HAS BEEN REVELED FROM OUR LORD, and which we are being told to follow, is the CODE OF ETHICS, the punishment mentioned in the verse/quran also is in reference to the violation of this code and not due to belief or disbelief in irrelevant scientific indications of quran.
tanveermd- Yes, the qur'aan is nothing but a reminder, and part of what it reminds us is to use our mind, reason, and knowledge and contemplate on the signs within and without to search for the truth.
Others have used their minds, reason, and knowledge to search for the signs and discover the truth in the universe/nature, and after they make a scientific discovery we use our mind, reason, and knowledge to associate it with some verse of quran so TO PROVE IT IS THE TRUTH FROM OUR LORD .
Today most of our intellectuals/scholars are busy preaching/debating the so-called scientific realities in quran rather then preaching the excellent code of ethics, which is the essence of quran.
Peace.
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He died a kafir rejecting Allah and his message, therefore his severe punishment is earned, this verse was revealed years before he died so he had a chance to repent even by faking it to prove the Quran is wrong and he never did despite his hatred to the message
I understand this point fully. But do you understand that i could easily point out 20 people i know wouldnt repent anything, even if their life depended on it.
For an evidence to be valid, we have to be able to confirm the outcome. If we cant, its not evidence. And as prophecy, this is weak at best.
peace
Hello
I was not confirming that it is a miracle, what i did was explaining the logical aspect of it, and I'm glad you agree on that
another point is, you can say that i will die kafir, but how you can gurantte that i will die as such if I still have 9 years to live for argument sake?
see, if I managed to believe within these 9 years then your prophecy is proven wrong,
imagine now that I hate you too, I can easily fake my believe to prove you wrong in front of everyone, i won't care about what is after death then
Salam
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Peace brother Ahmed,
You wrote
He died a kafir rejecting Allah and his message, therefore his severe punishment is earned, this verse was revealed years before he died so he had a chance to repent even by faking it to prove the Quran is wrong and he never did despite his hatred to the message
Bro I don?t understand this point that I have underlined? Below is sura111, Kindly explain?
111 1. The power of Abu Lahab will perish, and he will perish.
111 2. His wealth and gains will not exempt him.
111 3. He will be plunged in flaming Fire,
111 4. And his wife, the wood-carrier,
111 5. Will have upon her neck a halter of palm-fibre.peace.
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Peace brother Ahmed,
You wrote
He died a kafir rejecting Allah and his message, therefore his severe punishment is earned, this verse was revealed years before he died so he had a chance to repent even by faking it to prove the Quran is wrong and he never did despite his hatred to the message
Bro I don?t understand this point that I have underlined? Below is sura111, Kindly explain?
111 1. The power of Abu Lahab will perish, and he will perish.
111 2. His wealth and gains will not exempt him.
111 3. He will be plunged in flaming Fire,
111 4. And his wife, the wood-carrier,
111 5. Will have upon her neck a halter of palm-fibre.peace.
Peace brother agnetxxx
Do you belive that Mohammad had an uncle called Abu Lahab?
if you do then you do you know that he was a fierce enemy to Mohammad and the message of Allah?
he was so stypid indeed, when he used to see Mohammad talking to any one, he waits untill they finish they talk to that human after mohammad leaves and ask him what mohammad told him, and alsways contradict what Momhammad said to the people, his wife too was helping him in his deception and lies
they hurt the prophet bad, and this is when sura 111 was revealed, it condemns him and promises him with hell on the JD 'Sa Yasla Narran"
now Abu Lahab was on the hunt to contradict Mohammad in any possible way even with lies and deception
he would have came easy "for 9 years" to come and say
ok Quraish, I repent to Allah and I believe in the message and that Mohammad is the messenger of Allah
this is enough to create Fitnah because it will make that whole sura a contradiction
the ironic point is, he had about 9 years to do as such "truthfully of faking it" and he never did
that is why it will be hard to believe that a human wrote this sura before his death
salam
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Peace,
Why do people say "Abu" when the Quran mentions "Abee" Lahab? Doesn't the words also mean "father of flame"?
The surah 111 can be said about any evil person as such who had fame and wealth, thus setting a surah like it challenge, would it not?. Would that become GOD's Words then?
Lastly, here a good refutation on that verse
http//answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Prophecy/lahab.html -
I was not confirming that it is a miracle, what i did was explaining the logical aspect of it, and I'm glad you agree on that
that part was not aimed at you as such but as much tanveermd, you know, just for the debate around the table
It all comes down to this. what do we know of Mohammads uncle that is not hearsay other than he did not belive what Mohammad belived. If there is no reliable data, we have no way of determing why he didnt do anything, and as the effect of his actions (part of the evidence) is not visible, proveable to us. Its void as anything but some sort of analogy, but i have no idea what it means. But know this, if you feel its prophecy, I have no problem with that. I admit, i have no idea what it means, it makes no sense to me, wy its even there.
peace
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Peace,
Hi
Why do people say "Abu" when the Quran mentions "Abee" Lahab?
That is due to something that is complicated in the Arabic grammar, there is something called the Five Names, these names are ?Ab, Um, Akh, Fu, Zu?
Their meanings are
- Ab -> Father
- Um -> Mother
- Akh -> Brother
- Fu -> ?Not sure what it is but I will find out later?
- Zu -> ?Owner?
When Irab is applied on these names according to their position in the sentence, sometimes they are Marfooh, Mansoob, Magroor or Maskoon
The normal vowel for Marfooh is Dummah ?oooo?
The normal vowel for Mansoob is Fatiha ?aaaaa?
The normal vowel for Magroor is Kasrah ?eeee?
There is no vowel for Maskoon
With Some of these five names we can?t apply these vowel on it rather adding an additional letter at the end or change the last letter to express the vowels, i.e.
Instead of a Dummah for ?oooo?, Ab will become Abu, by adding a Waw at the end
Instead of a Fatiha for ?aaaa?, Ab will become Aba, by adding an Alif at the end
Instead of a Kasrah for ?eeee?, Ab will become Abe, by adding a Ya at the end
In the case in sura 111, the Irab for Ab must make it have a Kasrah hence it became Abe or Abee if you like to put it this way, this proves that the Quran can?t be the work of man actually
In the way I said it in my comment ?Abu?, it actually had to be Marfooh with a Dummah, but I know I can?t put a Dummah on Ab, therefore I said it Abu with a WAW
Did you get it mister Danish?
Here is an example from the Quran for Ab with a WAW. ?Abuna?, please note the ?na? means ?our?, in the following verse and according according to the grammar Ab has to be Marfooh and that is why Allah put it with a WAW
And when he came to the water of Madyan, he found on it a group of men watering, and he found besides them two women keeping back (their flocks). He said What is the matter with you? They said We cannot water until the shepherds take away (their sheep) from the water, and our father is a very old man.
(23)
-> ? ?, ?Our Father?, and must be Marfooh with a WAW according to the grammar rules,
Here is another Quran example with Ab that must be Magroor with a Ya, and Ab that must be Mansoob with an Alif , and both are in the same very verse
So when they returned to their father, they said O our father, the measure is withheld from us, therefore send with us our brother, (so that) we may get the measure, and we will most surely guard him.
(63)
-> ? ?, ?Their Father?, and must be Magroor with a YA according to the Grammar rules, i.e. Abee or Abe
-> ??, ?Our Father?, and must be Mansoob with an ALIF according to the Grammar rules, i.e. Aba or Abaa
Abee in sura 111 must be Magroor with a Ya
Subhana Allah indeed, this Quran can't be the work of a human
Doesn't the words also mean "father of flame"?
It does literally, but the context clearly tells us that it is a name of a person, this is very known in the arab culture that they call each other as the father of something, even if that thing is not a real son, rather something that indicate a good thing or even a bad thing in the case of Abe Lahab (it must be Magroor in here), lol, the fire meant that he was a strong man within his society
The surah 111 can be said about any evil person as such who had fame and wealth, thus setting a surah like it challenge, would it not?. Would that become GOD's Words then?
Here is what the common sense should tell us
If we take sura 111 as a metaphor of an evil person that never existed, then please tell me why the wife of that evil person must be condemned as well?
Sure an eveil guy may be married to a good woman and vice verse, here is an example from the Quran
10-Allah sets forth an example to those who disbelieve the wife of Nuh and the wife of Lut they were both under two of Our righteous servants, but they acted treacherously towards them so they availed them naught against Allah, and it was said Enter both the fire with those who enter.
11- And Allah sets forth an example to those who believe the wife of Firon when she said My Lord! build for me a house with Thee in the garden and deliver me from Firon and his doing, and deliver me from the unjust people
(10)
(11)YOU HAVE NO POINT MISTER DANISH
Lastly, here a good refutation on that verse
http//answering-islam.org.uk/Quran/Prophecy/lahab.htmlHow many times I have to tell you this bro?
Ok here is one more time
I?m not interested in used by dates links you post for me to go there and read it, you want to debate me, we have to do it the way I explained before
Salam
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Peace Ahmed,
Once again, thank you for your wonderful detailed explanation.
Now, let me ask you this
Were grammatical implications apparent at the time the "original" Quran was compiled or oral sayings of Muhammad? In other words, if Muhammad said "Abu" (as the name implies), then why did MEN change it to "Abee" to become grammatically correct over alleged "GOD'S Words" whether it fits the grammatical connotations or not? Who is superior, the man-made grammar that got invented hundreds of years AFTER Muhammad died and as recent as today OR the way the original names/sayings/messages were spelled out.Is grammar above "GOD'S Words" or was GOD not capable of saying Abu instead of Abee regardless of grammatical implications, if the real name was Abu or was it really Abee?
Who invented and provoked the rules of grammar on "GOD's Words" to bring about the Quran as we see it today and why?
Lastly, have you seen and witnessed the "original" copies of Quran (biased) as written by scribes of their times displayed in the museums? If so, what grammatical rules applied then, if any, makes you 100% sure of grammatical rules applied after (hundreds of years later) or today becomes 100% GOD's Words either way, yet we find the difference in Abu and Abee? So was it GOD who changed the name pronounced from Abu to Abee or was it the invention of man-made grammar? Again, who is superior and why?
The Tashkent Quran (Uzbekistan)
The Topkapi Quran (Turkey)
The Al-Hussein Mosque Manuscript. (Egypt)