Spoils of War/Booty
-
What's MMA?
MMA Maa Malakat Aymaanukum Wha your "right hand" possesses. I keep the original Arabic (abbreviation) because I do not wnat to translate it/explain it and I do not necesarily agree with the prevailing translation/s.
I'm still surprised no one knows if wives/women can be considered spoils of war or not..
The verse in question does not have the word "war" in it. To think that "gahneema" is limited, or even related to war gains is wrong. Please refer to my first post on this thread.
-
you wish
I do not ask you for a wage and have not; you can keep it. My reward is from God.
-
In that case you can have them Anthony
rotfl
-
Who wants dead bodies anyway rotfl
-
Ok, so spoils of war can't be wives and/or WOMEN, while Muhammadans think the opposite is true??
Has hadith fabricated this shit up?? ******* disguisting.
Muhammadans are still living in the "'age of ignorance!'"
-
In that case you can have them Anthony
Send the guns.......... police
-
So I conclude taking wives as war spoils is a falsehood in the hadith...
However, when according to Quran can someone be held "captive" and doesn't the verse about capital punishment kinda say that the punishment for waging war against God and his messenger (which you'd have to do before becoming a captive in the first place) is to be killed? How then can there be "captives" especially women captives for that matter? As far as I know there can't be any war captives according to the capital punishment rule.
-M
-
Peace All
The strangest thing about this thread is that everyone seems to be discussing women as though they belonged to the enemy. Women are certainly not possessions to be acquired. I think this underlying presumtion comes from the erroneous concept of dowry most of us have grown up with.
Regarding women, it's quite simple. They decide whther they accept the truth or not. If they do not accept the truth, & they are not participating in the war against you, why are you even discussing it? There is no compulsion in deen. If they accept the truth, assist them as best you can.
WOMEN ARE NOT OWNED BY MEN JUST BECAUSE THEY RECEIVED A GIFT (NAHLA) FROM THE MAN AS IS THEIR RIGHT (SADAQAH)
Imraan
-
So I conclude taking wives as war spoils is a falsehood in the hadith...
However, when according to Quran can someone be held "captive" and doesn't the verse about capital punishment kinda say that the punishment for waging war against God and his messenger (which you'd have to do before becoming a captive in the first place) is to be killed? How then can there be "captives" especially women captives for that matter? As far as I know there can't be any war captives according to the capital punishment rule.
-M
If the enemy surrender what you will do with them will you slaughtered them nope
- Handle Him Firmly, Promptly, but Humanely
The captive in your hands must be disarmed, searched, secured, and watched. But he must also be treated at all times as a human being. He must not be tortured, killed, mutilated, or degraded, even if he refuses to talk. If the captive is a woman, treat her with all respect due her sex. - Take The Captive Quickly To Security
As soon as possible evacuate the captive to a place of safety and interrogation designated by your commander. Military documents taken from the captive are also sent to the interrogators, but the captive will keep his personal equipment except weapons. - Mistreatment Of Any Captive Is A Criminal Offense. Every Soldier Is Personally Responsible For The Enemy In His Hands
It is both dishonorable and foolish to mistreat a captive. It is also a punishable offense. Not even a beaten enemy will surrender if he knows his captors will torture or kill him. He will resist and make his capture more costly. Fair treatment of captives encourages the enemy to surrender. - Treat The Sick And Wounded Captive As Best You Can
The captive saved may be an intelligence source. In any case he is a human being and must be treated like one. The soldier who ignores the sick and wounded degrades his uniform. - All Persons In Your Hands, Whether Suspects, Civilians, Or Combat Captives, Must Be Protected Against Violence, Insults, Curiousity, and Reprisals Of Any Kind
Leave punishment to the courts and judges. The soldier shows his strength by his fairness, firmness, and humanity to the persons in his hands.
peace
- Handle Him Firmly, Promptly, but Humanely
-
The way I saw it, adridi, is that if they stop fighting you...then you should simply stop fighting back and go home. I did not see a verse saying you can enslave people who were fighting you for a few seconds and decided to stop.
And my other question is still unanswered. Why all the mentioning of wives taken as "war booty" in the hadith? Does "Hislam" state that it is ok to invade your enemies' land after you've killed them, take their homes (which I see nothing wrong with but the following I do) as well as their wives (for your own sexual pleasure)?
-M
-
The way I saw it, adridi, is that if they stop fighting you...then you should simply stop fighting back and go home. I did not see a verse saying you can enslave people who were fighting you for a few seconds and decided to stop.
And my other question is still unanswered. Why all the mentioning of wives taken as "war booty" in the hadith? Does "Hislam" state that it is ok to invade your enemies' land after you've killed them, take their homes (which I see nothing wrong with but the following I do) as well as their wives (for your own sexual pleasure)?
-M
047.004
YUSUFALI Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them) thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded) but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
PICKTHAL Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.
SHAKIR So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.Qur?an474 ?So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah?s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam
Muhsin Khan It is not for a Prophet that he should have prisoners of war (and free them with ransom) until he had made a great slaughter (among his enemies) in the land. You desire the good of this world (i.e. the money of ransom for freeing the captives), but Allah desires (for you) the Hereafter. And Allah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.
-
To be honest, the last two versions seem like something taken out of Satan's rectum, but the second to last one was just..lol.
And I wasn't saying they should be freed when subdued, dude. I was saying if they just DECIDE TO STOP FIGHTING you, or even decided to run the opposite direction once they see someone's ugly face or hideous beard. I see subduing them as overpowering them with them still insisting to cause you harm in some way, not "oh, I feel like fighting you today but you know what...I just feel tired and would rather not".
^and that's possible to happen.
-M
-
And my other question is still unanswered. Why all the mentioning of wives taken as "war booty" in the hadith? Does "Hislam" state that it is ok to invade your enemies' land after you've killed them, take their homes (which I see nothing wrong with but the following I do) as well as their wives (for your own sexual pleasure)?
The problem is that they forget that they can be on the other end of the stick. But when this happens, they cry wolf and envoke "human rights"
and "condemnation of rape". -
To be honest, the last two versions seem like something taken out of Satan's rectum, but the second to last one was just..lol.
And I wasn't saying they should be freed when subdued, dude. I was saying if they just DECIDE TO STOP FIGHTING you, or even decided to run the opposite direction once they see someone's ugly face or hideous beard. I see subduing them as overpowering them with them still insisting to cause you harm in some way, not "oh, I feel like fighting you today but you know what...I just feel tired and would rather not".
^and that's possible to happen. )
-M
Good for you that you surredred i love you for thet -* ;D
-
The problem is that they forget that they can be on the other end of the stick. But when this happens, they cry wolf and envoke "human rights"
and "condemnation of rape".Wait wait...you're saying that if this rule applies, the muslims can get defeated and their wives can be taken? I think that's your point and I'd agree.
Good for you that you surredred i love you for thet -* ;D
No dude/gal...I'm not really saying I'm tired of commuting with you rotfl I was showing you an example of how you wouldn't/shouldn't subdue + enslave somebody when they change their minds about fighting you during a battle.
-M