Muhammad Shaikh adds "Muhammad" to the kalima!!!
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Peace all,
Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are liars in al-qur'aan, does not mean that "hypocrites are liars" becomes our "kalima".
The word "kalima" in al-qur'aan means "word". Where does the concept of the traditional "kalima" come from ? Where is it mentioned in al-qur'aan as a "kalima" ?
The closest example of "kalima" of man that I could come across in al-qur'aan is the following
364 Say "O people of the Scripture, let us come to a same/fair "kalima" between us and between you; that we do not serve except God, and do not set up anything at all with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons beside God." If they turn away, then Say "Bear witness that we have surrendered."
According to this verse, our "kalima" would therefore be
"alla na'abuda illa Allaha wala nushrika bihi shay-an wala yattakhitha ba'aduna ba'adan arbaban min dooni Allahi"
meaning "we do not serve except God, and do not set up anything at all with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons beside God."
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Peace "tanveer",
Peace all,
Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are liars in al-qur'aan, does not mean that "hypocrites are liars" becomes our "kalima".
The word "kalima" in al-qur'aan means "word". Where does the concept of the traditional "kalima" come from ? Where is it mentioned in al-qur'aan as a "kalima" ?
The closest example of "kalima" of man that I could come across in al-qur'aan is the following
364 Say "O people of the Scripture, let us come to a same/fair "kalima" between us and between you; that we do not serve except God, and do not set up anything at all with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons beside God." If they turn away, then Say "Bear witness that we have surrendered."
According to this verse, our "kalima" would therefore be
"alla na'abuda illa Allaha wala nushrika bihi shay-an wala yattakhitha ba'aduna ba'adan arbaban min dooni Allahi"
meaning "we do not serve except God, and do not set up anything at all with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons beside God."
JK- The important thing to notice is that even the above verse does NOT contain any names but GOD. GOD doesnt ask us to use the exact words of the Quran hence we may shorten or loengthen the above in our own words BUT PERTAINING TO GOD ALONE. Thats the crucial point. When Muhammad Shaikh talks about the "kalima" hes most probably refrring to the "shahaadah", the declaration of faith and this is where the fault comes in. But even otherwise declaring Muhammads name alongside with GOD's is making distinction as the previous member stated correctly. GOD Bless!
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...But even otherwise declaring Muhammads name alongside with GOD's is making distinction as the previous member stated correctly.
salma bro jonny_k and all .
i myself believe the "muhammadarrasoolallah" is not part of the shahaada .
but according to the koran , making distinction among messengers means accepting some messengers and rejecting others (4150)4150 Those who rejected God and His messengers, and they want to make a distinction between God and His messengers, and they say "We believe in some and reject some!", and they desire to take a path in-between.
i think M. Shiekh is misunderstanding some other verses , thats why he adds Muhammad's name to the shahaada . it is only a misunderstanding , not idolatry . idolatry is the unforgivable sin , we should be careful not to label good people as "idolators" , just because they misunderstand a few verses .
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Peace all,
Allah bears witness that the hypocrites are liars in al-qur'aan, does not mean that "hypocrites are liars" becomes our "kalima".
The word "kalima" in al-qur'aan means "word". Where does the concept of the traditional "kalima" come from ? Where is it mentioned in al-qur'aan as a "kalima" ?
The closest example of "kalima" of man that I could come across in al-qur'aan is the following
364 Say "O people of the Scripture, let us come to a same/fair "kalima" between us and between you; that we do not serve except God, and do not set up anything at all with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons beside God." If they turn away, then Say "Bear witness that we have surrendered."
According to this verse, our "kalima" would therefore be
"alla na'abuda illa Allaha wala nushrika bihi shay-an wala yattakhitha ba'aduna ba'adan arbaban min dooni Allahi"
meaning "we do not serve except God, and do not set up anything at all with Him, and that none of us takes each other as patrons beside God."
Very good point
thanks
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i myself believe the "muhammadarrasoolallah" is not part of the shahaada .
but according to the koran , making distinction among messengers means accepting some messengers and rejecting others (4150)Peace bro
I totally agree with the above, and regarding the shahaada, i actually did a research a while back and was shocked by the result, here is what i can remember
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, "La Ilah Ila...", "There is no God but...", 36 times
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, "La Ilah Ila Hu", "There is no God but Him", 29 times
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, "La Ilah Ila Ana", "There is no God but Me", 3 times
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, "La Ilah Ila Allah", "There is no God but Allah", 2 times
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, "La Ilah Ila Anta...", "There is no God but You", 1 time
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, "La Ilah Ila alazi...", "There is no God but The One Who...", 1 time
IN NON of these 36 times we read "Mohammad Rasool Allah" after it
But what I found very amazing is this "La Ilah Ila Allah" was repeated twice in the Quran, one of them is in sura 47 the sura name is "Mohammad", therefore you expect that "Mohammad Rasool Allah" appears after "La Ilah Ila Allah" in this sura at least, and again it never happened.
Therefore to say Mohammad Rasool Allah in conjunction with La Ila Ila Allah all day long is clear cut shirk
Salam
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Peace bro "AB",
Peace bro
I totally agree with the above, and regarding the shahaada, i actually did a research a while back and was shocked by the result, here is what i can remember
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, "La Ilah Ila...", "There is no God but...", 36 times
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, "La Ilah Ila Hu", "There is no God but Him", 29 times
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, "La Ilah Ila Ana", "There is no God but Me", 3 times
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, "La Ilah Ila Allah", "There is no God but Allah", 2 times
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, "La Ilah Ila alazi...", "There is no God but The One Who...", 1 time
IN NON of these 36 times we read "Mohammad Rasool Allah" after it
But what I found very amazing is this "La Ilah Ila Allah" was repeated twice in the Quran, one of them is in sura 47 the sura name is "Mohammad", therefore you expect that "Mohammad Rasool Allah" appears after "La Ilah Ila Allah" in this sura at least, and again it never happened.
Therefore to say Mohammad Rasool Allah in conjunction with La Ila Ila Allah all day long is clear cut shirk
Salam
JK- Exactly my point. GOD Bless!
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Peace bro "AB",
JK- Exactly my point. GOD Bless!
sorry bro, i qualified it and i missed one so i edited my comment sorry again, i did it on memory first
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Peace bro "AB",
I also found out that your counting does not include 9129 which conatins 1 "la ilaaha illa HU" making its occurence 30 instead of 29. So does this mean you now believe that 9128&129 do NOT belong to the Quran? If it does Alhamdulillah. If it doesnt then Allahu Akbar, He showed you a great sign. GOD Bless!
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Salaam Ahmad Baghat
I disagree with you that adding Muhammadun Rosulullah is shirk. This is the only second issue which I am disagreemnt with you. The first is vrigin birth of Prophet Jesus.
PS Try to add SAW with all the lines unfortunately signature field has the character limitations.
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Peace all,
actually the 'shahaada' is more commonly known among Pakistanis as "kalima" , or "kalima shahaadat" . so by "kalima" we meant "shahaada" .
If by "kalima" one means "shahada", then according to the following verse, only three entities can make shahada that "la ilaha illa Allah" or "there is no god but Allah"
318 God bears witness that there is no god but He, as do the Angels, and those with knowledge, He is standing with justice. There is no god but Him, the Noble, the Wise.
So only Allah Himself, the angels, and THOSE WITH KNOWLEDGE can proclaim shahada that there is no god but Allah.
Another very important point that a lot of people miss is that bearing witness (or proclaiming shahada) that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah ( saying "ash hadu anna Muhammad rasool Allah") is considered hypocrisy according to Allah in al-qur'aan.
631 When the hypocrites come to you they Say "We bear witness that you are the messenger of God." And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
The reason the hypocrites are liars when they say THEY BEAR WITNESS that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, is because they DID NOT BEAR WITNESS to the messengership of Muhammad. We are just asked to believe in the messengership of Muhammad and not testify to it. It is just like testifying/bearing witness to an event in a court of law that we have not actually witnessed, and when we do that we become liars.
There is no need to bear witness on him because God has already done so and that is enough.
479 "We have sent you as a messenger and GOD SUFFICES AS A WITNESS..."
4166 "God bears witness concerning what He has revealed to you. He has revealed it with His knowledge. And the angels bear witness as well, BUT GOD IS ENOUGH AS A WITNESS"
Again this is what the messenger told the companions. God is enough as a witness. God also discourages attempts at witnessing other messengers
2844 "You were not on the slope of the western Mount when we gave Moses the commandments. YOU WERE NOT A WITNESS"
So people cannot "witness" the messengership of the messengers.
Even the messenger could preach ONLY with al-qur'aan
651 "You shall preach WITH THE Quran to those who reverence the gathering before their Lord..."
So how can some person make something part of the system/deen when it is not to be found in al-qur'aan ?
The example of such a person would be as follows
323-24 "Have you noted those who only know part of the scripture, and when invited to adopt God's law, they turn away in aversion?.... That is because they are deceived in their faith by their own inventions."
What we are asked by Allah to say when we proclaim to enter the system/deen, MAJORITY OF MUSLIMS DO NOT SAY
2131 "When his Lord said to him "SUBMIT" he said, "I SUBMIT TO THE LORD OF THE WORLDS" (aslamtu li rabbil aalameen)
Hence our true declaration of submission to allah should be
ASLAMTU LI RABBIL AALAMEEN
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Peace "KGB",
Salaam Ahmad Baghat
I disagree with you that adding Muhammadun Rosulullah is shirk. This is the only second issue which I am disagreemnt with you. The first is vrigin birth of Prophet Jesus.
JK- What is shirk and not can clearly be seen from your signature. Four times the emphasis is on Muhammad with an additional praise "SAW" twice while GOD is only mentioned once as if He, GOD forbid, had not so much significance as the Prophet Muhammad. This is exactly the sunni idolatrous mentality. Think deep about that one. GOD Bless!
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peace.
Another very important point that a lot of people miss is that bearing witness (or proclaiming shahada) that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah ( saying "ash hadu anna Muhammad rasool Allah") is considered hypocrisy according to Allah in al-qur'aan.
631 When the hypocrites come to you they Say "We bear witness that you are the messenger of God." And God knows that you are His messenger, and God bears witness that the hypocrites are liars.
M Shiekh and, i think most people at IIPC, misunderstand verse 1343
1343 And those who disbelieve say You are not a messenger. Say Allah is sufficient as a witness between me and you and whoever has knowledge of the Book.
they think that whoever has knowledge of the Book can also bear witness to Muhammad's messenger in the Shahaada .
i learnt it in a discussion with an IIPC member .
that is why they bear witness to Muhammad's messengership . this is a misunderstanding on their part .
again i would say that it is silly to label M Shiekh as an "idolator" or a "hypocrite" .
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Salaam Ahmad Baghat
I disagree with you that adding Muhammadun Rosulullah is shirk. This is the only second issue which I am disagreemnt with you. The first is vrigin birth of Prophet Jesus.
PS Try to add SAW with all the lines unfortunately signature field has the character limitations.
Salam bro
lol , i'm really glad that you are the least one to object me my friend, two issues is nothing
serioulsy bro, I can't find any proof to link Allah with Mohammad in one sentence to be said all day long
why the Quran never told us to say as such?
but this is a minor issue mate, believe it or not I still say it in my prayer and at the same time I ask Allah to save me if it is shirk due to my ignorance
Salam man
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Salaam Ahmad Baghat
why the Quran never told us to say as such?
but this is a minor issue mate, believe it or not I still say it in my prayer and at the same time I ask Allah to save me if it is shirk due to my ignorance
Excellent we are in agreement here. I say it in prayers and don't want to change it to be labeled as Progressive.
I agree that its not in continuation in Qur'an. I believe that Allah Taala will judge us by our good intentions. Most Merciful. Most kind.
PS SAW is simple paying respect to a Prophet who was Rahmatan lil Aalameen.
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Salaam Ahmad Baghat
why the Quran never told us to say as such?
but this is a minor issue mate, believe it or not I still say it in my prayer and at the same time I ask Allah to save me if it is shirk due to my ignorance
Excellent we are in agreement here. I say it in prayers and don't want to change it to be labeled as Progressive.
I agree that its not in continuation in Qur'an. I believe that Allah Taala will judge us by our good intentions. Most Merciful. Most kind.
PS SAW is simple paying respect to a Prophet who was Rahmatan lil Aalameen.
Peace
It is about intentions but one can't be blindly ignorant to what the Qur'an says and rely on "intention." The fact is the Qur'an never mentions it in that regard. And the fact is the Qur'an clearly commands us not to distinguish between messengers.
This has nothing to do with doing something to be labelled "Progressive." It's simply doing what the Qur'an tells you to. Why do you even care about labels? This is between you and God, not between you and anyone else.
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CavemanDoctor
Blindly ignorant. Thank you.
Distinguish messangers? I did not say anything which is against Qur'an and I am not distinguishing messangers.
Peace
I wasn't making fun of you; I meant "blindly ignorant" in the very literal sense. You are intentionally ignoring what the Qur'an says.
And you saying you're not distinguishing messengers doesn't make it so. You are mentioning Muhammad's name and no one else's. As the Qur'an says, the majority of those who believe in God don't do so without some form of idol worship .
I am not trying to judge you. This is between you and God. But Im asking you, brother, to look deep within yourself and ask God for guidance. Why the need to place Muhammad's name next to God's? Just because you don't want to take on some arbitrary "Progressive" label? Is that a good reason?
I'm sorry if what I said came across as rude.
Peace.
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Peace CavemanDoctor
Don't worry. I have been insulted real harsh.
All my statements related to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) are according to Qur'an.
Peace
Not really. For one, your signature says Muhammad is the Last Messenger. Of course this is nowhere to be found in the Qur'an. But oh well. I'll seek guidance from God and I pray we all do the same.
Peace.