Following the religion of Abraham
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Peace jankren,i agree with some of your post. I dont pray in the sunni way any more,but my wife does. I think its fine as long as you feel it helps you to remember god and do good deeds. And as long as you dont do it just as a ritual,or insist there is no other way to connect to god. Different people have different methods that work for them,and some people can find 'physical' salat good for them at various stages in their life or spiritual development. I dont agree or appreciate peole calling people who pray 'physically' as idolators...
Intention,the persons spiritual level,individuality and whether the salat leads to peaceful behaviour are the main factors in the 'sucess' of a particular type of salat.
Peace all. -
Salaam to all,
I agree with what is being mentioned here; it is after all "why" you pray and not "how" you pray that matters. I used to pray the Sunni way, going through the motions and reciting Arabic which I didn't really understand. Once I really started researching Islam and became honest with myself, I understood that I was really just doing what everyone else was doing and following the majority. When I pray nowadays, I still face Mecca as a focal point, kneel and speak to God in English. I ask for forgiveness, I give praise and thanks and I ask that God strengthens my faith. Not that I have justify this to anyone, but this is what I do because I feel that it is right for me.
I know people who pray the traditional five times a day, every day, on time, in Arabic, they sport the beard or hijab etc, yet when I ask them if they have read the Quran for themselves in English (the language they understand) they gloss over in shame and I can hear in their voice as they squeak "No" that they have conceded a part of their faith to their very own hypocrisy. I can identify with this, because I used to be just like that.
God knows the truth of what is in our hearts, yet a lot of people continue to lie to themselves to fit in with what everyone else is doing. It's never been about the numbers; Noah was outnumbered, Abraham was outnumbered, Moses was outnumbered, Jesus was outnumbered, and Muhammad was outnumbered - yet their legends are held in truth centuries after them.
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Peace jankren,i agree with some of your post. I dont pray in the sunni way any more,but my wife does. I think its fine as long as you feel it helps you to remember god and do good deeds. And as long as you dont do it just as a ritual,or insist there is no other way to connect to god. Different people have different methods that work for them,and some people can find 'physical' salat good for them at various stages in their life or spiritual development. I dont agree or appreciate peole calling people who pray 'physically' as idolators...
Intention,the persons spiritual level,individuality and whether the salat leads to peaceful behaviour are the main factors in the 'sucess' of a particular type of salat.
Peace all.Peace enquirer,
Just curious ...What does your wife say regarding that (your not praying the sunny way any more)? -
Peace Andy. I dont pray in the sunni way generally,but that doesnt mean i wont pray in the sunni way at all. I believe that sometimes it might be beneficial to pray together as a family in order to grow together spiritually.
I believe any from of prayer can be beneficial as long as it is not harmful or totally illogical. I dont believe in hajj in the traditional way,but my wife does. I dont feel the need to go on hajj,but i would go with my wife because she wants to,and i feel its her freedom of conscience/belief to do so. She might get a beneficial spiritual experience from it,and i can help look after her while having a travel experience and a holiday. I believe many of us get too wrapped up or dogmatic on a particular way of practising religion,rather than the purpose of religion which is to achieve peace. I am a believer in letting people find peace by methods which work for them individually.(though we can all help each other with ideas,knowledge and suggestions.) I feel many friendships and marriages are put under unnecessary strain,or break-up because of close-mindedness or stubbourness in religious,or other matters...Compromise is not a dirty word...it helps to make the world go around. It helps immensely that i have an understanding and open-minded wife.
Peace all. -
peace jankren, enquirer, stitch and andy,
so your input basically means that the sunni style of salat is not correct (since not in the quran) but not wrong either if it 'serves its perpose' according to the quran. the reason why i brought this salat issue is because i approach this concept from a different perspective
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i feel that LEARNING about my surroundings and obtaining knowledge is mentioned more than 82 times(the sunni claim of salat mentioned in the quran) in the quran... when i learn about science i feel like i am learning about god... since it is firm evidence which reveals some of the characteristics about god because the creation is the art of god and what better way to learn about the artist from the example he has portrayed... so i feel closer to god learning about science(although learning is part of my life, it is not performed everyday at specific times ) because as i learn i guide myself closer to the truth which i found as a substitute for the salat).
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according ot this website, they claim that the history is DOUBTFUL. i do not mean to offend anyone but they are claiming that you shouldn't face mecca and pray towards the cubic structure... which is part of the hadith rejection movement as well as claiming that the prophet was literate(which is indirectly saying that the history is FALSE)... so, as you can see i have read a verse in the quran which says "clarity has come to you... so do not be of those who doubt"( sorry, i think it is the 2nd surah) and god repeatedly in the quran emphasised the importance of knowledge and clarity to support the truth.
since this website's claims and the sunni style of prayer is dubious, therefore, with knowledge and going further to learn about god is my substitution for salat but my message simply doesn't mean the fact that the sunni style is wrong; it simply means that
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people find out about themselves through constant meditation and for the muslims "salat". therefore, i constantly question myself to learn about myself clearly serving the purpose of salat.
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my mother asks me, then why don't i thank god by offering salat. my reply was that simply living up the task of understanding the quran and life is telling god that i am thankful enough to be his loyal servant. i am pleased for who i am and the situations god has put me through so i put my best effort towards life is simply thanking god to preach the message of peace.
D
peace, rifat
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pece to all,
i made mistakes concerning grammer and spelling. i therefore ask for an immediate apology for my shortcomings...
peace, rifat
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Peace mr humble. Excellent post. Your understanding of salat is very similiar to my own. salat=connection to reality/truth,which should thus lead to practical good deeds...Salat can be done in any way that works for an individual,and its an idea to try different methods or keep updating/revising your personal method of salat.
Peace all. -
To the People who think that prayer is not essential to be offered in the direction of Kabbah.
If you are right, then please explain the following verse purpose and context.
002.142
002.142 The fools among the people will say "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say To Allah belong both east and West He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight.
Al-Qur'an, 002.142 (Al-Baqara )
And to the people who totally reject sunnah, please explain the following verses
002.151
002.151 A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge.Al-Qur'an, 002.151 (Al-Baqara )
What is the Signs? what is sanctifying ? what is the word Wisdom separate from scripture?
If we just reject everything despite quran, then that sanctifying and Wisdom was only the right of Sahabah?
Either you follow sunnah or tell me the way I can approach to that source of wisdom wich prophet tought despite scripture ( as separately mentioned in quran).Why Allah did Allah send quran gradually? why not at once in a moment? Was not it the reason that it was to be shown to the people according to contexts? was it? then how can we know about those contexts? through sunnah? no? then what is the source?
003.031
003.031 Say "If ye do love Allah, Follow me Allah will love you and forgive you your sins For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."Al-Qur'an, 003.031 (Aal-E-Imran )
What is the meaning of it? (follow me) follow me means follow the khulq (practical way of interperting and practicing quran). What is the need of following prophet's sunnah when we had quran?
Here follow does not mean prophet said that accept to follow quran, here means "Ittibah" "ata'at" "perform".
003.032
003.032 Say "Obey Allah and His Messenger" But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.Al-Qur'an, 003.031 (Aal-E-Imran )
Why "AND" his messneger? Has Almighty used some extra words in this verse? (Naoozubi'Allah)
003.164
003.164 Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error.Al-Qur'an, 003.164 (Aal-E-Imran )
Rehearsing the signs of Allah? why? people would just study and understand themselves ! right? What is the need of prophet to rehearse in front of people. If I should not understand that rehearsal through sunnah, then bring me to that age of prophet(SAW). Can you? .....
Again, scripture and wisdom. Wisdom is the understanding, the interpretation...which nobody could understand than our prophet. So what is that understanding? the "sunnah".
004.113
004.113 But for the Grace of Allah to thee and his Mercy, a party of them would certainly have plotted to lead thee astray. But (in fact) they will only Lead their own souls astray, and to thee they can do no harm in the least. For Allah hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before) And great is the Grace of Allah unto thee.Al-Qur'an, 004.113 (An-Nisa )
Plese explain this Allah hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not.
062.002
062.002 It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered a messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;-Al-Qur'an, 062.002 (Al-Jumua )
What was sanctifying when we would just read the Book. What is instruct in scripture? Obviously Prophet was not mean to just read to them, Prophet(SAW) was "unlettered", then what was instructing of scripture? and what was teaching or wisdom?? Why separate used of two words as "scripture AND wisdom"?
033.021
033.021 Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.Al-Qur'an, 033.021 (Al-Ahzab )
Use your So called "intelligence" and logics and explain what is the beautiful pattern for us in this age, which Allah has refered. Was that pattern only for those people in Prophet's age? What our prophet(SAW) only for that age?
002.073
002.073 So We said "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus Allah bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs Perchance ye may understand.Al-Qur'an, 002.073 (Al-Baqara )
Here only one point is to understand. If there were some unreliable sources of Ahadis and due to some munafiqeen's some fake Ahadis were induced in books then that does not mean that we leave the whole sunnah of prophet (SAW)
May Allah guid the people of astray. Aameen
Sincerely,
VirtualEye -
To the People who think that prayer is not essential to be offered in the direction of Kabbah.
If you are right, then please explain the following verse purpose and context.
002.142
002.142 The fools among the people will say "What hath turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?" Say To Allah belong both east and West He guideth whom He will to a Way that is straight.
Al-Qur'an, 002.142 (Al-Baqara )
And to the people who totally reject sunnah, please explain the following verses
002.151
002.151 A similar (favour have ye already received) in that We have sent among you a Messenger of your own, rehearsing to you Our Signs, and sanctifying you, and instructing you in Scripture and Wisdom, and in new knowledge.Al-Qur'an, 002.151 (Al-Baqara )
What is the Signs? what is sanctifying ? what is the word Wisdom separate from scripture?
If we just reject everything despite quran, then that sanctifying and Wisdom was only the right of Sahabah?
Either you follow sunnah or tell me the way I can approach to that source of wisdom wich prophet tought despite scripture ( as separately mentioned in quran).Why Allah did Allah send quran gradually? why not at once in a moment? Was not it the reason that it was to be shown to the people according to contexts? was it? then how can we know about those contexts? through sunnah? no? then what is the source?
003.031
003.031 Say "If ye do love Allah, Follow me Allah will love you and forgive you your sins For Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."Al-Qur'an, 003.031 (Aal-E-Imran )
What is the meaning of it? (follow me) follow me means follow the khulq (practical way of interperting and practicing quran). What is the need of following prophet's sunnah when we had quran?
Here follow does not mean prophet said that accept to follow quran, here means "Ittibah" "ata'at" "perform".
003.032
003.032 Say "Obey Allah and His Messenger" But if they turn back, Allah loveth not those who reject Faith.Al-Qur'an, 003.031 (Aal-E-Imran )
Why "AND" his messneger? Has Almighty used some extra words in this verse? (Naoozubi'Allah)
003.164
003.164 Allah did confer a great favour on the believers when He sent among them a messenger from among themselves, rehearsing unto them the Signs of Allah, sanctifying them, and instructing them in Scripture and Wisdom, while, before that, they had been in manifest error.Al-Qur'an, 003.164 (Aal-E-Imran )
Rehearsing the signs of Allah? why? people would just study and understand themselves ! right? What is the need of prophet to rehearse in front of people. If I should not understand that rehearsal through sunnah, then bring me to that age of prophet(SAW). Can you? .....
Again, scripture and wisdom. Wisdom is the understanding, the interpretation...which nobody could understand than our prophet. So what is that understanding? the "sunnah".
004.113
004.113 But for the Grace of Allah to thee and his Mercy, a party of them would certainly have plotted to lead thee astray. But (in fact) they will only Lead their own souls astray, and to thee they can do no harm in the least. For Allah hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not (before) And great is the Grace of Allah unto thee.Al-Qur'an, 004.113 (An-Nisa )
Plese explain this Allah hath sent down to thee the Book and wisdom and taught thee what thou Knewest not.
062.002
062.002 It is He Who has sent amongst the Unlettered a messenger from among themselves, to rehearse to them His Signs, to sanctify them, and to instruct them in Scripture and Wisdom,- although they had been, before, in manifest error;-Al-Qur'an, 062.002 (Al-Jumua )
What was sanctifying when we would just read the Book. What is instruct in scripture? Obviously Prophet was not mean to just read to them, Prophet(SAW) was "unlettered", then what was instructing of scripture? and what was teaching or wisdom?? Why separate used of two words as "scripture AND wisdom"?
033.021
033.021 Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.Al-Qur'an, 033.021 (Al-Ahzab )
Use your So called "intelligence" and logics and explain what is the beautiful pattern for us in this age, which Allah has refered. Was that pattern only for those people in Prophet's age? What our prophet(SAW) only for that age?
002.073
002.073 So We said "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus Allah bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs Perchance ye may understand.Al-Qur'an, 002.073 (Al-Baqara )
Here only one point is to understand. If there were some unreliable sources of Ahadis and due to some munafiqeen's some fake Ahadis were induced in books then that does not mean that we leave the whole sunnah of prophet (SAW)
May Allah guid the people of astray. Aameen
Sincerely,
VirtualEye -
Salaam Stich,
Salaam to all,
I agree with what is being mentioned here; it is after all "why" you pray and not "how" you pray that matters. I used to pray the Sunni way, going through the motions and reciting Arabic which I didn't really understand. Once I really started researching Islam and became honest with myself, I understood that I was really just doing what everyone else was doing and following the majority. When I pray nowadays, I still face Mecca as a focal point, kneel and speak to God in English. I ask for forgiveness, I give praise and thanks and I ask that God strengthens my faith. Not that I have justify this to anyone, but this is what I do because I feel that it is right for me.
Usually, most problems revolve with the "how" and not "why", at least that is what I experienced while studying Islam the Sunni version. If you ask Sunnis, "In your 5 daily prayers, why do you have to point the index finger during tasyahud (the sitting position after 2 raka'ats)?", most probably won't have any answers except "Tradition" and for most of the times, it works beautifully.
And yes, I agree whole-heartedly that to be honest is the first step. Be honest in admitting that we are wrong (and for my case, practically all those times) is the hardest part of all. And that is just the start of this "journey" ;D Isn't life beautiful? However bro, what I feel right may not be right at all. It already happens and it will happen again I'm sure. The key is just what you said -- honesty. ;D
God knows the truth of what is in our hearts, yet a lot of people continue to lie to themselves to fit in with what everyone else is doing. It's never been about the numbers; Noah was outnumbered, Abraham was outnumbered, Moses was outnumbered, Jesus was outnumbered, and Muhammad was outnumbered - yet their legends are held in truth centuries after them.
Truth never cares for numbers. Billions of people say that Jesus is God or the Son of God (whichever it is). Is that truth to you? ;D Hopefully bro, you can keep continuing your learning of the quran with an honest approach, as it should be approached.
=adley=
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Salaam Adley,
Thank you for your post, it was a great read -)
Indeed, I've been through the whole "challenging tradition" phase and by being truly honest with myself, I have got this far. I'm still seeking contentment in my soul, but I feel that I am getting closer to it now because of the effort I have made to become closer to God. It?s not been an easy journey, the traditionalists are set in their ways like I once was, and because the Quran alone community is not easy to meet in our everyday lives, the lack of community hurts.
Truth never cares for numbers. Billions of people say that Jesus is God or the Son of God (whichever it is). Is that truth to you? ;D
LOL, no of course not. What I wanted to say by this is that these Prophets were outnumbered, yet by God's will they had the utmost triumph and their legends are still here centuries later for us to take heed to. Although these legends have been tainted quite a bit, the virtue in them exists if we choose to find them.
However with all the religious arguments I've had that upset me and some I continue to have (even though I try to avoid them), I take some comfort in knowing that Almighty God knows the absolute truth that resides in my heart and knows that I have come this far through truly soul-destroying troublesome times only to seek the favour of my Creator to whom I will one day return for my judgement.
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Salaam Stitch,
LOL, no of course not. What I wanted to say by this is that these Prophets were outnumbered, yet by God's will they had the utmost triumph and their legends are still here centuries later for us to take heed to. Although these legends have been tainted quite a bit, the virtue in them exists if we choose to find them.
I know bro, I was teasing you ;D
And I agree fully with what you said bro. ;D=adley=
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I know bro, I was teasing you ;D
And I agree fully with what you said bro. ;D=adley=
LOL, wow, thanks Adley. ;D
I have only been posting on this forum for about a week now and I am glad to see the positive responses. The "Quran alone/God alone" community (although nowhere near perfect or even organised) truly does exist and I am so happy that there are others who feel the same or a similar way that I do about religion and God. The majority of traditional Muslims I ever talk to are mostly devoid of the ability to talk about God like we do here, it seems that following the majority and looking good in front of their family or community is more important than being honest with themselves and truly submitting to God; the Creator of all that is in the Heavens and the Earth.
No doubt that this subject will continue to attract contention and that people will continue to argue with each other well into the future, but one thing I have come to understand now is that; it's not my opinion or their opinion that matters, for it will be God's truth that shall persevere and be established in the end. And that is the God, the only God that has ever been, whom I believe in and to whom I have submitted.
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Last night I was reading though the forums and I stumbled upon a Sunni who actually admitted that he loves Muhammad more than Allah and he even used hadiths to support it.
salam AbdulMajid....can you give us a link to this, please? I would really like to read it. thank you.
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Salaam to all,
but this is what I do because I feel that it is right for me.
May Allah help me so that I just follow what "HE" feels is right for me, and not what "I" feel right for me.
What do you say about Rukoo, Sajdah, Qiyam mentioned in quran?
VE