Contradictions and inconsistencies in the quran?

[Fahad1]

Peace darbari. ok,you say these sunnat of allah are specific to just those verses,so i wont discuss that with you...

me say ?! i showed u the verses . thats what the verses are saying . do u agree with my explanation or not ? finish this one first , so we can move on .

(im sure many 'quran only' would disagree,and it would be nice of them to explain the verses if they think/agree that allah does not ever change his sunnat or laws.)

huh?! still insisting ? can u quote or give reference to any other such verses ?

Ok,then explain those list of strange literal occurences like a stick turning into a snake,virgin birth etc,etc...
Most especially what does sujood to adam mean when you should only do sujood to allah alone? Any takers?...

first, list your favourite "contradictions" together please . it would be better to post them in the original post of this thread .

[unknownuser]

Good mornin' bro AB,

Indeed, let's just all of us try to answer as much as we can, and get some good substantial discussion going. It's been a long time! D

Thanks sister

i read your reply to brother agent regarding the Zani who should marry a Zania or a Mushrika....., your answer is great, in fact this is the general rule but any rule must have an exception, in addition to your logic i have to say that many people understand this verse wrong as a law that must be applied on all generally

i actually don't see it as a law applied on us rather extra info told to us that if the zani wants to marry, most likely he will marry a zania or a mushrika (knowing or not knowing in advance) and vice versa regarding the Zania

therefore i can't take it as a law "THAT MUST HAPPEN THIS WAY" rather Allah is telling us some secrets of His complete devine knowledge

However if we assume it is a law that must happen to every zani and zania, then I don't see this law applied on the wives of prophet Nuh and prophet Lut because the verse says "Wa Al Zania La Ynkaha Ila Zani Aw Mushruik)

most importantly the quran never told us that any of the wives of prophet Lut and Nuh was "Zania", therefore the above assumed law does not apply to them

The verse was specific to whom The Zani and Zania will marry, and I never read any where that these prophets wives were as such

I will look at brother agent comment again and see if I can add something later as i kjust waked up and have a lot of huse cleaning to do D

Salam

[agentxxx]

peace sis s-c,

Did u read my previous post?

yes i have read it now, thank you very much for taking time to explain sis )
its almost 330 in the morning, brother Ahmed just got up, good morning bro and have a nice day ) as for me i think its better to go to sleep before i again mix up replies
bye.
god bless you sis,

peace.

[bmbmm]

Peace zenje,bmbmm and all. Even if the quran is clear and gods words(which i dont necessarily agree with.) how come after 1400 years we still dont know half of it,and we are still discussing salat,hajj,slaves etc.. How come the 'quran only' community is not exactly at the forefront of world affairs or making great contributions to science and civilisation? How long has 'quran only' existed? Did all the previous generations get it wrong? Give me a few examples of success from the 'quran only' community? whats the use of gods words if nobody properly understands it,or no peace/success is achieved through it? Im sure many sincere people have tried to interpret the quran and still come up with little consensus....A book that we can all be divided with. )

Salam eq,

I think there is not such thing as Quran only, yet its however is comming to existance soon when we understand the quran with knowledge and open mind. This is gona be difficult because there is also evil, satan on the side. If I am satan the only thing I will do is to change the Quran, and if I can't I will twist the understanding of the quran, which is what have been happening from the day the Quran was established. The challenge is if the Quran is not from Allah you will find contradictions in it. Which you will not find. There is nothing wrong with the Quran, whats wrong are the devil among the jinns and men.

Peace

[arnoldyasin]

Peace,

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2426. BAD WOMEN .are for BAD MEN and BAD MEN are for BAD WOMEN. GOOD WOMEN are for GOOD MEN and GOOD MEN are for GOOD WOMEN.

I believed myself also that this verse is approached wrong, there is something fishy...QXP and Ahmed Ali, approached it a bit differently

QXP
2426 Evil women keep company with evil men, and evil men keep company with evil women. Likewise, men and women of good character are companions to one another (971, 112). The latter are innocent of whatever people might say about them. For them is the absolution of their imperfections and honorable provision.

AA
2426. Bad women deserve bad men, and bad men are for bad women; but good women are for good men, and good men for good women, for they are innocent of what people say. There is forgiveness for them and a gracious provision.

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6610. Allah sets forth an example to those who disbelieve THE WIFE OF NUH and the WIFE OF LUT they were both under two of Our righteous servants, but they acted treacherously towards them so they availed them naught against Allah, and it was said Enter both the fire with those who enter.

The wife of Nuh, betrayed him, that is why God calls that son, not his son.

1146. "O Noah", He answered, "truly he is not of your family. He is surely the outcome of an unrighteous act. So ask Me not of what you do not know. I warn you not to be one of the ignorant."
      So AA translation applies better

6610 God advances the example of Noah's wife and the wife of Lot for those who don't believe. They were married to Our two pious devotees, but they were unfaithful to them, and even (the apostles) could not avail them in the least against God; and it was said to them "Enter Gehenna with those condemned to enter it."

So this refers not to Lut and Noah being good and their wifes bad, and by thus makes this verse contradicting, it is about that only sinfull acts can be done with sinfull people, so like adultery can only be done with two adulterers, and between a believer and an adulterer, because the believer wouldn't be a believer anymore when he/she performs a 'sin'. So this verse is even perfect, because it tells that sinfull acts are only done by 'bad' people, because you can only be good through your deeds. So it just states a fact, and doesn't contradict. The wife of Noah could have only commited adultery with another 'bad' man, and since she was married to Noah, didn't make Noah bad, since their relationship was lawfull. Deeds between people can only be when they're on the same level.

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nuh and lut lived thousands of years before the book was revealed, but the book says

Maybe his message and memory lived with the people for a thousand years, doesn't that sound more logical?
Just a thought....

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2117. Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth, and when He decrees an affair, He only says to it, BE, so there it is.

The creation of matter is out of nothing as proven by the string-theory.

In "Parallel Worlds" Dr Kaku, world known co-founder of String theory, states
" At first, one might object to the notion of amultiverse, because it seems to violate known laws, such as the conservation of matter and energy. However the total matter/energy content of a universe may actually be very small. The matter content of universe, including all the stars, planets, galaxies, is huge and positive. However, the energy storedwithin gravity may be negative. If you add positive nenergy due to matter to the negative nergy due to gravity, the sum may be close to xero!.In some sense, such universes are free. They can spring pout of the vacuum almost effortlessly.( if the universe is close then the total energy content of the universe must be zero.In fact to creat a universe like ours may require a rediculously small net amount of matter, perhaps as little as an oune.As "Guth"like to say,"the universe may be a free lunch".This idea of creating universe from nothing was frist introduced by physicist Edward Tyron of Hunter college of the City University of NEw York, in a paper published in "Nature" magazine in 1973. He speculated that the univese is something <" which happens from time to time" due to a quantum fluctuation in the vacuumAlthought the net amount of matter required to creat a universe may be close to zero, thismatter must be compressed to incredible densities.
He continues to discuss," Although the universe from nothing theory cannnot be proved with conventional means, it does help to answwer very practical questions about the universe. For example why deos not the universe spin?Everything we see around us spins , from tops, hurricanes,plantes, and galaxies to quasars. It seems to be a universal characteristic of matter in the niverse. But the universe itself doe snto spin. When we look at the galaxies in the heavens, their total spin cancels out to zero.
He adds," this is quite fortunate, becasue if the universe did spin then time travel would become common place and history would be impossible to write.The reason why the univese does not spin may be that our univese came from nothing. Since the vacuum does not spin, we do not expect to see any net spin arising in our universe. In fact all the bubble universes with in the multiverse may have zero net spin."

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10 3. Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in SIX PERIODS, and He is firm in power, regulating the affair, there is no intercessor except aher His permission; this is Allah, your Lord, therefore serve Him; will you not then mind?

This talks about how the matter got organized, so it doesn't talk about the creation of matter, but about the organizing of the matter (after the creation of matter itself) into clusters and eventualy into stars and planets and so on from the big-bang to now, so here we are already beyond the 'Be and it is' phase.

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the earth in TWO PERIODS
seven heavens in TWO PERIODS

As you can see, the Quran explains here, that the earth is part of the heavens, the stars and all other formations in the universe. So this refers to all formations in the universe of stars and planet-bodies took 2 stages. Remember these stages don't refer to every stage taking the same amount of time, but refer to different stages, parts of development. It is proven that from the big-bang to us now, the universe had 6 stages, all taking different time spans, but each were seperate stages, each having different phases how matter formed clusters of planets and so on, plus the placement of energy being different in every phase, as when planets and suns appeared gravity had more influence in the stages. I will see i can quote a scientist on this, i have it somewhere...to many books....

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in FOUR PERIODS

This refers to that the develoment of life on earth took place in 4 different stages, and again repeat, NOT 4 seperate stages of the same time span. But 4 distinctly different stages. As in total it took from the bigbang, to our age, 6 different stages of development of different elapses of time.

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We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars is explained by the part that comes before
seven heavens and each of those 'heavens' hasits affair and again i believe Ahmed Ali translated it correctly
12. Then He created several skies in two spans, and ingrained in each sky its function, decking the nearest heaven with lamps, and guarded it. This has been determined by the mighty and all-knowing.

From which it is more logical that the skies here refer to the several layers of dimensions that hold our space-time fabric together, as theorized by S.Hawking, and in the string-theories, and from which ours is the only one with matter, and the other are the holders of the laws and the basis of our universe.

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4158. Nay Allah raised him up unto Himself;...Was Jesus raised alive?
3144 says all messengers passed away before him.
2957 says every soul must taste of death.
1933 says the day I way born, THE DAY I DIE, and the day I am raised to life.

If he was raised alive then does that mean he will come back and then die? then he will be raised to life again on the judgment day ?
Was he given the book in the cradle?

For explaining this, i will post a booklet written by a genius, at the end of this reply...
But first, this is a wrong translation of this verse as Ahmed Ali, Muhammed Asad and dr.Shabbir Achmed.
As we have to look at the word used here is rafaa, see its uses 1957, 4015, 5623, 944.

AA
4158. But God raised him up (in position) and closer to Himself; and God is all-mighty and all-wise.

QXP
Nay, Allah exalted him unto Himself. (They had plotted thinking that crucifixion was a death of dishonor. But Allah raised him in honor). Allah is Almighty, Wise.
The Qur'an does not say that Jesus was raised up in body. 4157 describes
that he was saved from the Cross. 355 points to his physical death, absolving
him of all slander and honoring him. Raf?a here means raising him in honor, and
not in body. 1933 again tells of his physical death. Further 3144 reads,
"Muhammad is but a Messenger. Messengers before him have passed away."
Most explicitly 2134 states, "We have not granted immortality to any person
before you." And if God is Omnipresent, ascension to Him becomes
meaningless.
(The reader is referred to explanation of the Qur'an by Sir Syed Ahmad Khan,
Muhammad Asad, Ubaid Ullah Sindhi, and Abul Kalam Azad for further details
and confirmation on the subject)

And the reference of him being a prophet from the cradle, is symbolic for the young age he became prophet, if it really was from the cradle, i don't believe so, because this refers to her returning to her family and them being surprised she had a child all that time. The first years of his life he propably grew in the temple, and was introduced only in a later stage to his family. So the cradle being a metaphor, as for the people believed him to young to be a prophet. Ahmed Ali and other scholars have the same idea.

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I have only created Jinns and men, THAT THEY MAY SERVE ME. -- 5156

You have to see the context, as God says in the next verse, that He doesn't want anything, so i agree here with QXP

5156 And I have not created the nomads(people outside/not direct participation in/not seen society) or the urban(directly in society) but to consciously and
willingly live by My Laws. (?Ibadah?, usually translated, as worship is better
applicable in that sense to idol-worship. And since the Qur?an consistently
promotes action over ritual, ?Ibadah? of Allah is better understood as serving
Him by serving His creation. That is in conformity with my rendering,
?consciously and willingly live by --?).

As also Muhammed Asad

And I have not created the invisible beings and men to any end other than that they may worship Me.

So you to approach in a logical way, and look for the deeper meaning, instead of staring at the surface..

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Many are the Jinns and men WE HAVE MADE FOR HELL .... -- 7179

Yes, if you understand that Hell, Gehenna is a metaphor for stagnatic thinking, for thinking that will burn away the truth, peace, progress and is by thus following mere illusions, as jahim=barrier, showing that gehenna is thinking that stops your growth of development to a higher understanding. And will create a life in the Afterlife that is compared with agony. And this is thus a stage in the creation that is neccesary people go through, as God says hell is not eternal.

7179 Our Law has committed to Hell numerous people, rural and urban; they are living a life of hell. They have hearts that they use not to understand. They have eyes with which they see not, and ears with which they hear not. They are like cattle. Nay, they are even worse. Such are the people who have chosen to live through life in total darkness of ignorance.

If you approach it like, which is also the only logical way, since gehenna is metaphorical, and the old concept of literally burning in hell comes from the Greeks and Egyptians, we have a pre-programmed idea of heaven and hell which is not found in the Quran, then suddenly you understand that it is a logical phase for most humans, to undergo too, i also have lived in hell of illusion before took me out of it, I believe most people on this site feel like this...But maintaned it will develop agony on agony, as you know the truth is out there but cannot grasp it, and thus burns your soul from the inside of your heart(sura104).

7179. Many of the jinns and human beings have We destined for Hell, who possess hearts but do not feel, have eyes but do not see, have ears but do not hear, like cattle, even worse than them. They are people unconcerned.

Like Ahmed Ali says beautifully in his translation
"Hell, The word Jahannam is of hebraic origin, consisting of Ji, valley, and Hannam, and meant the Valley of Hannam, south of Jerusalem, where in ancient times human sacrifices were made to Moluk, the deity of the Ammuniyin, and burnt, thus signifying the altar of humanity's sacrifice. in the Quran, heaven and hell are not eternal kingdoms as in the Bible, but contingent to and coterminous with the heavens and earth, as is evident from verses 106 to 108 of surah 11
And those who are doomed, will be in Hell For them will be sighing and sobbing,
Where they will dwell so long as heaven and earth endure, unless your Lord will otherwise. Verily your Lord does as He wills.
Those who are blessed will be in Paradise, where they will dwell so long as heaven and earth survive, unless your Lord wills otherwise This will be a gift uninterrupted.

Paradise is a state of bliss, enjoyably worldy, so is Hell described as "the fire kindled by God which penetrates the hearts. it vaults them over in extending columns," in 1046-9. It is, thus, a sacred archetypal symbol, carrying both a moral and psycho-social meaning within its tautology and eschatological ultimacy. So is Yaum-al-Hasr, the day of Resurrection, the completion and consummation of life on earth. in the metonomy of the Quran resurrection signifies the rising of the dead so that each feel in person the effects of his good and evil deeds done on earth."

As also dr.Shabbir Achmed on his understanding
The Qur?an describes Hellfire and Paradise in metaphors and allegories that
lie within the physical means of our understanding. While the body dies, the
?Self? lives on and its destiny, whether Anguish or Bliss, is a logical
consequence and a built-in recompense of its doings.
A ?Self? that has actualized or primed itself by leading an upright life
respecting the Permanent Divine Values, and thus being a useful member of
society, belongs to Paradise. This process of self-actualization is facilitated by
a benevolent society. The development of a primed or actualized ?Self? goes
on in the Hereafter in Blissful Immortality.
On the other hand, a ?Self? that has stunted itself by succumbing to selfish
desire, fails to prime itself for further development. It merely survives in the
?Hell? of Anguish as opposed to
the Blissful Immortality of Paradise. (In this sense, stagnation is hell, and
progress is paradise).
So, we can understand the Qur?anic description of Hell and Paradise to some
but sufficient extent for our intellectual needs. To put it very briefly, here is my
humble understanding
640
PARADISE Men, women and children are brought into a new being in
exponentially higher physical and mental forms. Aging, pain, illness, death,
grief, fear, fatigue, negative emotions have no place in that Blissful Realm. It
is perpetual
Delight with ongoing growth of the personality.
The new human forms have intensely advanced capacities to do things they
want, even see a replay of their earthly lives and the entire world history.
They instantly get all they desire, and more! They get to meet with their
families and friends and any personalities that lived before or after them. They
are provided all they need and want without the least bit of toil.
HELLFIRE A life where the resurrected humans in the new higher physical
and mental forms have a life of Anguish. They are in a state of neither living
nor dying since their personalities make no progress. Yet, they see the Truth
more clearly. JAHIM (the Insurmountable Barrier) keeps them from
advancing. They are in a relentless state of Regret that they should have
done works to become worthy of Paradise.
The Qur'an categorically states, "The Hellfire originates in and engulfs the
hearts." In that Light, Allama Sir Muhammad Iqbal correctly notes
that 'people carry their own fuel to the Fire'. (Yes, you are right, dear Mehgan,
that Allah does not punish anyone. It is only the logical carry over
consequences - and Allah, in His Infinite Mercy, will not let anyone be
"punished" eternally).
Hence, the understanding we get of the life Hereafter, although described
metaphorically in the Qur'an and not exactly comparable to what we know in
this life, is sufficiently clear FOR OUR MENTAL AND EMOTIONAL NEEDS.
An important note must be made here that the Hell or Paradise of a person
begins right here in this life.
Furthermore, the Divine System (in Biblical terms, the Kingdom of God)
established in a society ensures the earthly paradise, whereas an individual
or a collective life that is lived contrary to Divine Laws only builds a hell in
this world as well. In that sense, tomorrow is the Hereafter of today.
The following verses are just a few among those that will support my humble
submission
2119, 311, 3132, 586, 836, 949, 1335, 18100, 2691, 2955, 3213-17,
3536, 3653-67, 3678-79, 4715, 5721, 7430, 7826.
641

This is my best understanding for now...

Peace

[savage_carrot]

Peace bro agent,

Np, G'nite and I'll look at the other post in the morning.

[unknownuser]

Peace brother Agent

I found it very strange that you just keep posting masses of alleged contradictions without responding to the others who tried to help you out, at least say anything that indicate that you read it, anyway it is up to you to read it or not, but please be aware that you are contributing indirectly to a sick propaganda against your religion that you should be proud of, I?m not saying that you should not raise any concerns, in fact I encourage you to do, but the way you are doing it is no different to the enemy of your religion, I just thought I mention that to you as a brother, now I hate responding to masses of alleged Quran contradictions in one comment, this is silly indeed and only causes confusion and requires a lot of work, so I chose one of the alleged contradictions in your last comment to sister Nadia and will respond to it, of course I chose the easiest one that raised my eye brow which I responded to over a year ago somewhere but could not find my comment

WHY DOES THE BOOK OFTEN REPORT THE SAME EVENTS WITH VARIANT WORDING?

Mate, don?t you think if the story is repeated with the same exact words will be silly and nothing but a joke?

In fact, what you are questioning, is one of the great miracles of the Quran that I can see for years in this great book, simply saying the same story with different words is a clear challenge to all humans to find a contradiction, in addition to that you will always see that most likely a new piece of information is added when the story is repeated, from the whole repetitions we can come up with almost a complete story, and this is another miracle in the Quran

I chose Mary?s alleged contradiction because this is nothing but dust in thin air

MARY

345. When THE ANGELS SAID O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).

346. She said My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.

347. And He will teach him the Book and the wisdom and the Tavrat and the Injeel.

348. And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East,

349. And had chosen seclusion from them. Then We sent unto her OUR SPIRIT and it assumed for her the likeness of A PERFECT MAN.

350. She said Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art Allah-fearing.

351. He said I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.

352. She said How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste?

353. He said So (it will be). Thy Lord saith It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.

God bless you,
peace.

Again, you failed to tell us how do you think the above may be a contradiction?, remember we don?t want something that is ?may be? we want a clear cut contradiction ?certain?, please bear this in mind, my job is not to make you believe in what the Quran verses say, my job is only to show you that the alleged contradiction can NOT be a clear cut contradiction because it is doubtful and can?t be admissible as an evidence.

I believe you mean the following, in the following verses we read the Quran is telling us that a group of angels visited Mary

Here is the verses in Arabic

(45)
(46)
(47)

-> In 345 we read that a group of angels visited Mary ? When THE ANGELS SAID?, they actually were there to only tell her of a future event, this is clear from the Arabic word ?Yobashirik? , This ?Bushra?, ?The Good News? is ? O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah). ?, THERE IS NO INDICATION WHATSOEVER THAT THEIR MISSION WAS TO EXECUTE THIS GOOD NEWS FROM ALLAH, 347 and 348 are the rest of the supposed dialogue between the angels and Mary and again we see no indication that they came to execute this good news, rather to tell her what is about to happen in the near future.

The important note that I found is this, it seems the same very angels also visited Zachariah to give him another good news to his family, remember that Mary was living with Zachariah at this time, this visit was mentioned just a few verses earlier

37 So her Lord accepted her with a good acceptance and made her grow up a good growing, and gave her into the charge of Zakariya; whenever Zakariya entered the sanctuary to (see) her, he found with her food. He said O Marium! whence comes this to you? She said It is from Allah. Surely Allah gives to whom He pleases without measure.

38 There did Zakariya pray to his Lord; he said My Lord! grant me from Thee good offspring; surely Thou art the Hearer of prayer.

39 Then the angels called to him as he stood praying in the sanctuary That Allah gives you the good news of Yahya verifying a Word from Allah, and honorable and chaste and a prophet from among the good ones.

40 He said My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to me, and old age has already come upon me, and my wife is barren? He said even thus does Allah what He pleases.

41 He said My Lord! appoint a sign for me. Said He Your sign is that you should not speak to men for three days except by signs; and remember your Lord much and glorify Him in the evening and the morning.

42 And when the angels said O Marium! surely Allah has chosen you and purified you and chosen you above the women of of the world.

43 O Marium! keep to obedience to your Lord and humble yourself, and bow down with those who bow.

44 This is of the announcements relating to the unseen which We reveal to you; and you were not with them when they cast their pens (to decide) which of them should have Marium in his charge, and you were not with them when they contended one with another.

45 When the angels said O Marium, surely Allah gives you good news with a Word from Him (of one) whose name is the '. Messiah, Isa son of Marium, worthy of regard in this world and the hereafter and of those who are made near (to Allah).

-> Very clear bro that it is most likely the same angels who visited Zachariah at the same time, I agree it is not conclusive but there are two important points you have to consider

1. She was living with Zachariah at that time ? whenever Zakariya entered the sanctuary to (see) her, he found with her food.? (337)
2. Zachariah and Mary received ?good news? regrading their upcoming children

You have to also consider that there is nothing conclusive to suggest it was two different visits to both of them, I?m sure they met each in their own place but it sounds to me and according to the above verses that it was the same visit from the heaven to earth by the same angels

Now the enemy of Islam suggest that the above verses conflict with the following verses in which we read ONLY ONE ANGEL VISITING HER TO EXECUTE THE GOOD NEWS

(16)
(17)
(1
(19)
(20)
(21)
(22)

Well, what can I say, the verses above clearly talks about different event than the one in 337-48, this event in 1916-21 is the future event that was told in 337-48

Let me prove it to you

In the earlier event we read ? whenever Zakariya entered the sanctuary to (see) her, he found with her food.? (337), so she was in the sanctuary and Zachariah was allowed to enter regularly and check on her

In 1916 we read?And make mention of Mary in the Scripture, when she had withdrawn from her people to a chamber looking East?, i. logical e. she was in a chamber looking east where she withdrawn from her family, therefore Zachariah would have not been able to check on her as we read before, 1917 confirms that ? And had chosen seclusion from them?

In addition to that, in 346, Mary and Zachariah didn?t seem to be talking directly to the angels, because their replies were ?O Allah?..? as we read in 340&41 by Zachariah and in 347 by Mary when they responded to the good news said by the angels, it seems there is a secret and divine way in how the angels communicate with these righteous humans, I don?t really know but it is clear that their replies were to Allah not to the angels despite the angels were the ones who said the good news to them.

But in 1917 we see one angel that morphed into a human being and Mary was talking directly to him, in fact she was horrified when she saw him, we didn?t see this by Mary in the other earlier event in 345-48

Then We sent unto her OUR SPIRIT and it assumed for her the likeness of A PERFECT MAN.

Then she was horrified and talked directly to him

?She said Lo! I seek refuge in the Beneficent One from thee, if thou art Allah-fearing.

Then he told her that his job was to execute the good news told to her before

?He said I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a faultless son.?

PLEASE NOTE THAT IN HERE WE READ ? I am only a messenger of thy Lord?, but we didn?t read that in the other event by the angels neither to Zachariah nor to Mary, this clearly means it is a different event

She wondered again but this time she was serious because she mentioned that she has not been unchaste

?She said How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste??

compare the above ?Second wonder? in this event with the ?First wonder? in the earlier event in 347

?She said My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to I me, and man has not touched me? He said Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.

She never mentioned not being unchaste in 347, because it was a future event that she might have thought will come through a normal connection between a man and woman according to Allah Will, but in 1920 ?the execution time? she worried that she will be called unchaste, and certainly the Jews did call her as such

Then the angel responded
?He said So (it will be). Thy Lord saith It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained.?

Then the angel executed the good news

?So she conceived him; then withdrew herself with him to a remote place.?

Totally different events, there is no question about it, we didn?t see a direct dialogue between Mary and the angels in the first event because she was responding back to Allah not to them, but in the second event she was clearly dialoguing to one angel in the shape of a man that scared her first

The enemy of the Quran are running crazy tey even compare apples with mangos, why not thinking who created the apples and mangos that they eat from the first place, I guess this is better for them than wasting the believers time

Again I have to say Danish words ?Slam Dunked?

Salam

[zenje]

Peace AB,

I found it very strange that you just keep posting masses of alleged contradictions without responding to the others who tried to help you out, at least say anything that indicate that you read it, anyway it is up to you to read it or not
This is what happens when the other person...
(a) had no intention of learning or finding out the truth
(b) had a previous agenda (note one of my first posts to him was asking this very question)
(c) is here to preach his own religion or lack of
(d) all of the above.

I commend your patience and perseverance to still answer the "contradictions" in detail, knowing they will not be adressed and that the other party will still claim you posted "nothing".

Peace be with you

[unknownuser]

LUT
780. And (We sent) Lut when he said to his people What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you?
781. Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people.
782. And THE ANSWER OF HIS PEOPLE WAS NO OTHER THAN THAT THEY SAID TURN THEM OUT OF YOUR TOWN, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves).

2928. And (We sent) Lut when he said to his people Most surely you are guilty of an indecency which none of the nations has ever done before you;
2929. What! do you come to the males and commit robbery on the highway, and you commit evil deeds in your assemblies? BUT NOTHING WAS THE ANSWER OF HIS PEOPLE except that they said BRING ON US ALLAH'S PUNISHMENT, if you are one of the truthful.

Because the verses say ,nothing was the answer of his people except? then why is the answer in 782 different from 2929?

Peace brother Agent

I will respond to the above alleged contradiction that baffles you due to the reply of Lut?s people in 782 is different to the reply in 2929.

Let me bring the verses in Arabic so I can follow you

(80)
(81)
(82)

In the above we read a dialogue between Lut and his people

Lut ?What! do you commit an indecency which any one in the world has not done before you??

Then Lutt added ? Most surely you come to males in lust besides females; nay you are an extravagant people.?

His people replied ?TURN THEM OUT OF YOUR TOWN, surely they are a people who seek to purify (themselves).?

In another location we read another dialogue

(2
(29)

Here is the dialogue above

Lut ?Most surely you are guilty of an indecency which none of the nations has ever done before you ?

Then Lut added ?What! do you come to the males and commit robbery on the highway, and you commit evil deeds in your assemblies??

They replied ?BRING ON US ALLAH'S PUNISHMENT, if you are one of the truthful.?

Brother Agentxxx asked

Because the verses say ,nothing was the answer of his people except? then why is the answer in 782 different from 2929?

Ahmed says

Excuse me brother agent, this is another case of comparing Apples with Mangos, why you are suggesting that the two incidents are the same?

I don?t see them the same for two obvious reasons

1. Do you think that Lut warmed his people ONLY ONCE?, of course not, he kept warning them all the time he spent within them, I?m sure you must agree, therefore why NOT the two dialogues above are from two different incidents that Allah told us about?, there is nothing to suggest that they are the same event, don?t you agree?

2. In the first event what Lut said to his people was different to what he said in the second event, can you spot the difference?, well he accused them of homosexuality in both events BUT IN THE SECOND EVENT he accused them with another 2 crimes ? and commit robbery on the highway, and you commit evil deeds in your assemblies?, this clearly indicates that it was another event, don?t you agree?

Now why you think when Allah said the following in the first event ?And THE ANSWER OF HIS PEOPLE WAS NO OTHER THAN THAT THEY SAID??.?, means that this is the only thing they said in every time Lut warned them?,

Excuse you man, what logic exactly those who said this non sense are following?, there is nothing wrong here, in the first event when he warned them of homosexuality their reply WAS NOTHING BUT ?blah blah?..?

In the second event when he accused them with further crimes , their reply WAS NOTHING BUT ?blah blah blah blah?..?

Do you get what I mean by ?WAS NOTHING BUT??

So why in hell the first ?blah blah?..? must be the same as the second ?blah blah blah blah ?..??, come on, the first accusation in the first event was different to the second accusation in the second event

Man, this one is a real joke indeed, I can?t believe people who claim to be intelligent and smart enough to find contradictions in the Quran show this level of ignorance, I guess my friend you need to ask them this question first before you give what they say any merit, the question is 1 + 1 = ?

Slam dunked, thank you Danish

Peace

[unknownuser]

Peace AB,

I found it very strange that you just keep posting masses of alleged contradictions without responding to the others who tried to help you out, at least say anything that indicate that you read it, anyway it is up to you to read it or not
This is what happens when the other person...
(a) had no intention of learning or finding out the truth
(b) had a previous agenda (note one of my first posts to him was asking this very question)
(c) is here to preach his own religion or lack of
(d) all of the above.

I commend your patience and perseverance to still answer the "contradictions" in detail, knowing they will not be adressed and that the other party will still claim you posted "nothing".

Peace be with you

Thank you dear brother

mu answer is (d)

it is a sacred duty man

Peace be with you

[unknownuser]

Slam dunked, thank you Danish

Thanks bro for your lengthy "slam dunked" humorous mutations. You still didn't catch "agentxxx's" real concern, now did you, and went on a Blah Blah spree? Can you spot your own fallacy?

[unknownuser]

Slam dunked, thank you Danish

Thanks bro for your lengthy "slam dunked" humorous mutations. You still didn't catch "agentxxx's" real concern, now did you, and went on a Blah Blah spree? Can you spot your own fallacy?

D

why don't you spot it and expose it?

[savage_carrot]

Peace AB,

the first accusation in the first event was different to the second accusation in the second event

Good catch and great posts. Keep 'em coming!

Additionally I must thank all the people in this thread who have posted refutations. These seem to be the same 'contradictions' posted on this forum and others countless times that have been refuted. Maybe the people concerned can search for them and post the refutation and the explanation given (if they claim the will to learn), and bring that in to be discussed if it is not satisfactory to them. Why it isn't would be a good start. I'm surprised that it doesn't happen, after all they've been here long enough.

[unknownuser]

Man, this one is a real joke indeed, I can?t believe people who claim to be intelligent and smart enough to find contradictions in the Quran show this level of ignorance, I guess my friend you need to ask them this question first before you give what they say any merit, the question is 1 + 1 = ?

If I spot it, then your above statement in bold and the "good catch" thingy may turn the "snakes back to sticks". symbolism! Are you'll ready for that? (edit)

[unknownuser]

Man, this one is a real joke indeed, I can?t believe people who claim to be intelligent and smart enough to find contradictions in the Quran show this level of ignorance, I guess my friend you need to ask them this question first before you give what they say any merit, the question is 1 + 1 = ?

If I spot it, then your above statement in bold and the "good catch" thingy may turn the "snakes back to sticks". symbolism!

Mate, please don't play the english language game with me, i'm not that native in english, i have to say i could not understand perfectly what you meant by the above statement, but look bro, i'm not challenging you, i'm only looking at the merit of the alleged quran contradictions posted by many, and your turn will come because i spot a comment by you in this thread but I didn't read it yet, sorry, too much to read, but i hadit flaged in my mind as long as the memory of my mind keeps holding, so as I said I'm not challenging you but it seems you want to challenge me which is fine man, please go for it, spot it then expose it, but I hope you try to be politically accurate because it seems you are talking on someone's else behalf based on assumptions

cheers

[savage_carrot]

Mate, please don't play the english language game with me, i'm not that native in english, i have to say i could not understand perfectly what you meant by the above statement,

Even natives in the english language will have a hard time reading that statement bro. It's not constructed accurately, maybe to add some level of 'witticism'?!? To clarify, I think they are trying to say-

'If I was to spot your fallacy, then your statement in bold along with the statement that you made previously in the same post, may reverse the proverbial "sticks to snakes". (Insert more 'wit' here)'.

This is not saying much at all unless they try.

[unknownuser]

Man, this one is a real joke indeed, I can?t believe people who claim to be intelligent and smart enough to find contradictions in the Quran show this level of ignorance, I guess my friend you need to ask them this question first before you give what they say any merit, the question is 1 + 1 = ?

If I spot it, then your above statement in bold and the "good catch" thingy may turn the "snakes back to sticks". symbolism!

Mate, please don't play the english language game with me, i'm not that native in english, i have to say i could not understand perfectly what you meant by the above statement, but look bro, i'm not challenging you, i'm only looking at the merit of the alleged quran contradictions posted by many, and your turn will come because i spot a comment by you in this thread but I didn't read it yet, sorry, too much to read, but i hadit flaged in my mind as long as the memory of my mind keeps holding, so as I said I'm not challenging you but it seems you want to challenge me which is fine man, please go for it, spot it then expose it, but I hope you try to be politically accurate because it seems you are talking on someone's else behalf based on assumptions

Ahmed bro, please understand that people can accuse and vent out all they want (bears no effect on me) and I am very much aware of their own lamented yet slippery and deceptive minds barging in and supporting others with all sorts of fatwahs to incite belligerency and hostility. My views towards Quran has recently evolved to the point that it is an excellent read and yes it carries much wisdom, but only to the point of MAN'S WORKS and not GOD'S WORDS. With that said and man being fallible, I do see some problems. That's all.

Now coming to the "spotlight", I will have you concentrate on the red marked portions of agentxxx's concern rather than your etymological exegesis. We'll get to my previous unanswered post, no problem there. As a matter of fact, I found more stuff to it.

[unknownuser]

Peace all. Here is a quote from phoenix which sums up the situation;

'Who said anything against quran? The problem with some people here is that whenever a question is asked regarding the quran that they dont have an answer to,or that the obvious answer(not necessarily right.) might make the quran look bad,they become defensive and emotional. If we want to truly learn from the quran,we need to learn to criticize it,and uphold its teachings on rational thought. Questioning the content of the quran or its authenticity is not wrong. Questioning leads to answers.'

I would add that if people never questioned they might still be following the 'hadith' they consider as outdated,'irrelevent' and corrupt...Do any of you remember the dogmatic,emotional,offensive outbursts you encountered when you questioned the validity,applicability and perfection of hadith? And the sectarian,insensitive attitude some people displayed when you asked them genuine questions about the hadith?
Also throwing verses about and cutting and pasting do not always prove your points...Some of the traditional sunnis quote loads of verses to justify the sunnah and their views,as did apple-pie...but you still disagree strongly with both these examples. Some of you seem to (not all.) base your 'faith' in the book on just that,...'faith'...this is fine,but then dont criticise christians who believe in the trinity on faith,or sunnis who believe the prophet explained the quran,and so say hadith are a valid divine source.(because of their faith.)
Peace all.

[unknownuser]

Peace,

It's 345 am my time and I beg to be pardoned (not ducking out). I would love to have "agentxxx" on the line. Until then.....

[mquran]

Salaam to you, Danish,

Some questions if you please vis-a-vis your statement My views towards Quran has recently evolved to the point that it is an excellent read and yes it carries much wisdom, but only to the point of MAN'S WORKS and not GOD'S WORDS. With that said and man being fallible, I do see some problems. That's all.

1. What problems do you see with al-quraan?

2. Is it possible that these problems, instead of being 'real', exist to your limited understanding of al-quraan itself?

3. How do you classify something as 'man's works' ? If X claims to be from God, what is your criteria to reject this assertion and classify it as man's work?

4. What should a book of God's words be like ?

thank you for your attention.